The Religion Discussion

[bluefete]

^^^^ blue .... really.. im tryin to get you to speak with me, reason as it were on a human level and not try to beat me with the bible. The bible has no answer to the question that i asked you. Simply put YOU seem to be the pretender here.. Why make a statement like that and allude it to divine intervention? As Sky sed, DEMOCRACY worked and the people voted him out.

What's God got to do with that?

Oh snap,,, wait,,,, you'll ascribe that to him also right? yeah, i can see it now, god spoke to the people and made them vote.. Blue, seriously, yuh need to stop running back to the book to prove your words.

In this thread i have seen you and the mad Doc bawlin bout 'my god is a jealous god, rah rah rah, serve no other before him, rah rah' and then u say that all other 'religions are false, and there is one true god..... OK then you berate all other religions ad nauseum. Now you would have us believe that the PM, having taken oath of office while swearing on the Bhagwad Geeta - last i recall that makes her Hindu... Is the proclaimed device of deliverance from Manning's evil..??

Just how many times must you contradict yourself? Or is your faith really that convenient? and your belief that vacuous? Do you really know how many times you twisted and turned in this thread? I mean ,,, Wagonrunner asked you the same thing im asking ,, WHERE IS THE LOGIC IN THAT STATEMENT?? and more importantly how can u use that as proof ?

Go and read about Nebuchadnezzar. That is why I posted the writing somewhere above.

God works through people, as well. So we voted and Manning lost. Logical enough, right? No divine intervention there, right? Riiiight!!!!

Agnostics expect God to thump them on the head and say, "Here I am"!!!

What the... I think he's calling us stupid. I think he's calling my common sense divine intervention.

ok here's a flow chart for you blue, cuz like words aint working....

Man gets in power > man does sh1t > people tell man to stop doing sh1t > man ignores people > people say well udfr if you can't listen and treating us like sh1t..

Now where did God have to intervene there? lol I guess everyone who got fired because they were bad at their job could blame God.

How come this does not work in China?

[Sky]

Lemme guess, because Chinese don't believe in God? Come again sparky, RC is the main religion in Cuba.

[illumin@ti]

Lemme guess, because Chinese don't believe in God? Come again sparky, RC is the main religion in Cuba.

didnt you get the memo ... Catholicism is not an approved religion according to blue and magadog

[bluefete]

yes Sky that is what I meant
it was a metaphor, an analogy.

My point was that my grandmother told me something to get a certain result, and I may tell a child something else to get the same result.

The Bible, in the books of Samuel, gives the account of David and Goliath. There are many morals of the story, one being the victory of the small, good and modest over the large, evil and extravagant.

Not very different from Jack and Beanstalk.

Both teach the same values, some need to learn the lessons taught as a story, others need to have it from a divine source, some would just pick up the same lessons from good parents having not heard either story.

whichever one floats your boat.
again, its just based on what you want to believe.

Amazing though that Bluefete and others don;t quote from jack and the beanstalk and take the story literally.

Were David & Goliath for real? Were Jack & the beanstalk for real?

[bluefete]

Lemme guess, because Chinese don't believe in God? Come again sparky, RC is the main religion in Cuba.

didnt you get the memo ... Catholicism is not an approved religion according to blue and magadog

Wow. Talk about twist & shout!!

[bluefete]

Lemme guess, because Chinese don't believe in God? Come again sparky, RC is the main religion in Cuba.

God let the Jews stay in bondage for over 400 years before sending Moses to deliver them.

[Sky]

Were David & Goliath for real? Were Jack & the beanstalk for real?

Who knows, both came out of storybooks

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

^ knockin on heaven's door?
that is a modern belief, the pearly white gates.

how are we so sure that it's not really a Flower Mountain as the Maya believed?

or as Pato stated, really just blankness, nothing, an eternal dreamless sleep into non-existence. Toyo and Megadoc1 and Bluefete might find that too scary to accept.

Not really. But a very specific promise of eternal life, where every tear is wiped away. Now Duane, where else do we get a promise like that?

only in your head to comfort you

[toyo682]

but when I die in faith through Christ I go straight to heaven

This is not as easy and one thinks.....
I remember hearing a sermon a couple months ago in which because you are saved and baptised, doesnt mean you are automatically going to heaven.
You must live your life in alignment with God's teachings, follow his commandments and seek his forgiveness about your shortcomings and sins......http://www.kampyle.com/feedback_form/ff ... 98&lang=en
On judgement day, you would have to answer to Almighty God for all the sins you committed and why you lived your life the way and manner in which you did......

http://www.kampyle.com/feedback_form/ff-feedback-form.php&page_id=0&form_id=49498&lang=en

Firstly where exactly in the bible says we are going to heaven when we die ? Eccl 9:5 says " The living are concious that they will die but the dead are concious of nothing at all".

John11:11-14- When Lazarus died and Jesus resurrected him...he did not come back to life and talk about heaven or hell...for him he was in a deep sleep which is y i was curious as where exactly did the bible tells us we are going to heaven when we die.

5For the living know that they will die,
but the dead know nothing;f
they have no further reward,
and even their name is forgotten.
6Their love, their hate
and their jealousy have long since vanished;
never again will they have a part
in anything that happens under the sun.
The Holy Bible : Today's New International Version. 2005 (Ec 9:5-6). Grand Rapids, MI: Zondervan.

The writer was actually talking about life on earth, the dead no longer know what is taking place on earth, this verse does not support the view of non existence after death. this is eisegesis:the interpretation of a text (as of the Bible) by reading into it one's own ideas.

[megadoc1]

^ knockin on heaven's door?
that is a modern belief, the pearly white gates.

how are we so sure that it's not really a Flower Mountain as the Maya believed?

or as Pato stated, really just blankness, nothing, an eternal dreamless sleep into non-existence. Toyo and Megadoc1 and Bluefete might find that too scary to accept.

Not really. But a very specific promise of eternal life, where every tear is wiped away. Now Duane, where else do we get a promise like that?

only in your head to comfort you

I will never let go of that comfort
I am satisfied

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

^ glad to hear, at the end of the day that is ALL this is really about.

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

this is eisegesis:the interpretation of a text (as of the Bible) by reading into it one's own ideas.

YES! that is exactly what you, bluefete, pato and megdoc1 have been doing!

In fact, that is as much as anyone can do with any religious text.

[toyo682]

this is eisegesis:the interpretation of a text (as of the Bible) by reading into it one's own ideas.

YES! that is exactly what you, bluefete, pato and megdoc1 have been doing!

In fact, that is as much as anyone can do with any religious text.

Haha care to say what I have done this with????

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

^ just about everything

like I said "that is as much as anyone can do with any religious text."

[nismotrinidappa]

Answer me this question which I have asked and no one seems to want to answer, How can there be several truths for one thing.
Take for example salvation, or going to heaven. If you believe that there are many ways explain how this is fair logically. Where is the fairness in God revealing himself several ways, so now I can through the revelation of Jesus go to heaven based on faith, but a Muslim must do enough good works, how does he know when he has done enough, what if he thinks he has, only to die and find out he hasn't because he does not know what he is aiming for. How about the woman in India who throws her baby into the Ganges River so that her god can forgive her, how is that fair to her or her innocent baby, since many like to clamor about the innocent. How does the Buddhist know when he achieves Nirvana, until then he is stuck here, but when I die in faith through Christ I go straight to heaven. How is this fair Duane answer me please? God has made several paths but all have different weights on them.

This is too easy... Whatever happened to "My ways are not your ways"?
What about the point Jesus was making when he told the parable in Matthew 20:1-16? How each is weighed is up to his Creator... your concern is how you will be weighed (and hopefully, not found wanting)

To quote from the book of Job, where God speaks to Job: "Who are you to question my wisdom with your ignorant empty words?... Do you know all the answers?"

But seriously, the correct answer lies in the fact that religion is part of culture, and how we view that which we consider god has to do with how we are brought to our belief - if that sounds too "cold and intellectual", then this is the same: God reaches out to us in the way we live and interact with each other, and our consciences are formed in the ways we are taught what is expected from us. This then guides us back to Him.

Stop wasting your time looking at what is on other people's plates. This only breeds jealousy or vanity. Use your concepts of right and wrong that you have learned to guide your steps - that's what they are for, that is why you were given them. From the time you start to dictate to others what is right for them, then you start to abuse those gifts. They are for personal guidance, not the judgment of others - that is not your job, you weren't sent here for that.

Cheers

d spike . what about the view that god gave you gifts to share with your fellow man. and also to share the word of god etc... not beat you about the head with bible and scripture... but have a sensible discussion about the topic.

( puts on flamesuit)

you know this thread gonna cross 100 pages right?

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

^ there are fanatics in every religion.

[megadoc1]

I am not one ....well lets put it this way
I took off my blinders and walked into the light
now i never want to return to dark

[QG]

The thread has RISEN once again! The work of God in it's mysterious form!

[toyo682]

^ just about everything

like I said "that is as much as anyone can do with any religious text."

hahaha thas all I have to say, you don't even understand what is eisegesis.

[d spike]

this is eisegesis:the interpretation of a text (as of the Bible) by reading into it one's own ideas.

YES! that is exactly what you, bluefete, pato and megdoc1 have been doing!

In fact, that is as much as anyone can do with any religious text.

Now, now, Duane, that's not true. When a young n' strong god-fearin' man states his view on the meaning of a particular scriptural text, this is personal interpretation inspired by the Holy Spirit... "eisegesis" is the term used by that same young n' strong god-fearin' man when anybody else who doesn't agree with him does the same thing.

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

^ LOL

hahaha thas all I have to say, you don't even understand what is eisegesis.

no toyo682, I think what you think you are doing is exegesis
what I think you are doing is eisegesis

and please don't go on to tell me what I am thinking.

and seeing that YOU really don't seem to know what eisegesis is, d spike summed it up nicely.

[toyo682]

^^^^well you guys are welcome to show me where my interpretation of any of the scriptures that I have quoted are wrong. but at this point I don't expect much.

[toyo682]

this is eisegesis:the interpretation of a text (as of the Bible) by reading into it one's own ideas.

YES! that is exactly what you, bluefete, pato and megdoc1 have been doing!

In fact, that is as much as anyone can do with any religious text.

Now, now, Duane, that's not true. When a young n' strong god-fearin' man states his view on the meaning of a particular scriptural text, this is personal interpretation inspired by the Holy Spirit... "eisegesis" is the term used by that same young n' strong god-fearin' man when anybody else who doesn't agree with him does the same thing.

Oh by the way the views I have stated are not strictly my interpretations, in fact many come for books, which I have read not authored, which were written by men like D spike who are more studied than me. But I guess they don't know what they are talking about either.

[d spike]

d spike . what about the view that god gave you gifts to share with your fellow man. and also to share the word of god etc... not beat you about the head with bible and scripture... but have a sensible discussion about the topic.

Here?!!??? You're kidding, right? No, seriously... take a look back at the 90-odd pages, then re-think that last statement.

If you recall the thread in which I came across the existence of Megadoc, and then recall the brief, but lucid conversation that took place after he ceased to spew and thankfully fell silent, you should realise that I would enjoy such a conversation... but the majority of that thread, the thread about "the Ark" (both of which were locked) and this thread are sufficient proof that many are the minds that are neither mature nor tolerant enough - far less intellectually capable - of having such a discussion. To attempt such a feat in this public forum would be to invite disaster, namely, Bluey, Megadoc sans meds, et al.

However, if you truly wish it, go ahead and I'll respond - as long as I can keep my lunch down.

you know this thread gonna cross 100 pages right?

As sure as God make Moses...

There was a time when old men sat and argued about these things... and young men went out and changed the world.
Now, the ones out there changing the world are folks like Jimmy Carter, Nelson Mandela... and these young 'uns sit here and yak... yup, the times they are a'changing.

[d spike]

Oh by the way the views I have stated are not strictly my interpretations, in fact many come for books, which I have read not authored, which were written by men who are more studied than me. But I guess they don't know what they are talking about either.

Ooooh, you shouldn't have said that, lad. When I made such a remark as this, I was pounded severely by the good god-fearin' folks on this here forum.

[megadoc1]

so when would you take your own advice?

Use your concepts of right and wrong that you have learned to guide your steps - that's what they are for, that is why you were given them. From the time you start to dictate to others what is right for them, then you start to abuse those gifts. They are for personal guidance, not the judgment of others - that is not your job, you weren't sent here for that.

Cheers

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

toyo682 I don't expect you to be convinced by anyone that you are an exegete.
if you did then it would no longer be eisegesis would it?

so tell me, exactly how tall was Goliath?

oh and while you are at it, do you get to be with your family in heaven?

[d spike]

Why Megadoc should direct any question at me is beyond my understanding... he spent pages and pages of a thread claiming that I was a liar, and never submitted any proof of such, then proceeded to condemn and rebuke me - out of love, as he told someone else - and generally made an arse of himself publicly... then begged me to leave him alone.

As far as advice given/followed, he should take a read - as he certainly didn't read it when I posted it before:

When Jesus spoke about who would be going to hell/heaven at the end of time, he was very specific.
This is in response to those "christian" remarks made previously, concerning the danger of certain folks going to hell, specifically the "unbelievers" and "nay-sayers".
In Matthew 25:34-45, Jesus describes “Judgment Day”, saying that “the people of all nations” will be gathered and divided into two groups:
Then the King will say to the people on his right, “Come, you that are blessed by my Father! Come and possess the kingdom which has been prepared for you ever since the creation of the world. I was hungry and you fed me, thirsty and you gave me a drink; I was a stranger and you received me in your homes, naked and you clothed me; I was sick and you took care of me, in prison and you visited me.”
The righteous will then answer him, “When, Lord, did we ever see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and gave you a drink? When did we ever see you a stranger and welcome you in our homes, or naked and clothe you? When did we ever see you sick or in prison and visit you?”
The King will reply, “I tell you, whenever you did this for one of the least important of these brothers of mine, you did it for me!”
Then he will say to those on his left, "Away from me, you that are under God’s curse! Away to the eternal fire which has been prepared for the Devil and his angels! I was hungry but you would not feed me, thirsty but you would not give me a drink; I was a stranger but you would not welcome me in your homes, naked but you would not clothe me; I was sick and in prison but you would not take care of me.”
Then they will answer him, “When, Lord, did we ever see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and we would not help you?”
The King will reply, “I tell you, whenever you refused to help one of these least important ones, you refused to help me!”

Ummmmm... he didn't say anything about believing or not believing... or being a Pentecostal or Catholic or Buddhist...

Why are those, who claim vehemently to be the followers of this man, so quick to ignore these words, but focus their rantings instead on those who don't share their specific religious grouping?

Don't get me wrong, lad... you can't tell me anything I haven't heard or said myself... so it isn't a case of my wanting to know...
...it's a case of getting you to realize that your dogmatic fundamentalism blinds you to the truth of Jesus' teachings: one of brotherhood, forgiveness and love. You deny these truths, conveniently quoting the hellfire n' damnation stuff... any part of scripture that promotes your "us" versus "them" football-match style of religion... ignoring the pivotal/focal points of those same scriptures...

In the St. Matthew's account I quoted, it is quite clear that entry into heaven is dependent on taking care of one's fellow-man. The account of St. Dismas (the traditional name ascribed to the "Good Thief") is also quite clear on how this person acquired salvation ("Remember me when you come into your kingdom"), and there was certainly no stated repentance on his part...

To sum this up, I am simply putting it to you that this 'cut-and-dried' approach to what you perceive as your salvation may very well work for you (and I'm happy for you if it does) but there are other ways, other paths to Paradise... and you are out of line to tell other folks that their path to God is wrong, and yours alone is right. You can't claim "personal interpretation" of scripture is acceptable and then say that a differing interpretation is not acceptable.

[megadoc1]

D spike for the longest time you have been posting something you cant even understand,
i think that is very sad for someone who claimed to teach "Christianity "
nevertheless you can remain in your bliss all you want .

but tell me
how a man like you with all your wisdom , can look through these pages and the only fools
you can see are those who loves Jesus ? you don't find that strange? isn't it weird that your
knowledge cant seem to correct on both sides?

anyways if anyone looked at the earlier posts in this ched
I was a heckler too ,yes i thought along the same lines as most in this ched concerning Jesus
but I thank God for giving me the opportunity to see him for who he really is
he offered me life and I took it ,now to me that is wisdom.
I walked in the supernatural and gained so much experience that
a man like you with all your so called logic can never impress me nor fool me.
and yet , I've just begun
I met the best his name is Jesus and I am gonna follow him forever.

peace

btw if i called you a liar ........................search yourself , thats all I have to say for now

[illumin@ti]

D spike for the longest time you have been posting something you cant even understand,
i think that is very sad for someone who claimed to teach "Christianity "
nevertheless you can remain in your bliss all you want .

but tell me
how a man like you with all your wisdom , can look through these pages and the only fools
you can see are those who loves Jesus ? you don't find that strange? isn't it weird that your
knowledge cant seem to correct on both sides?

anyways if anyone looked at the earlier posts in this ched
I was a heckler too ,yes i thought along the same lines as most in this ched concerning Jesus
but I thank God for giving me the opportunity to see him for who he really is
he offered me life and I took it ,now to me that is wisdom.
I walked in the supernatural and gained so much experience that
a man like you with all your so called logic can never impress me nor fool me.
and yet , I've just begun
I met the best his name is Jesus and I am gonna follow him forever.

peace







btw if i called you a liar ........................search yourself , thats all I have to say for now

Kneegrow, u been smokin crack what a pompous, arrogant and obviously flacid response.. doh stud y it ,, all of 'we' mad,,,, ur just fine and dandy. I mean of course, since just a cpl pages back yuh claimed that you are without sin now