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Local history Thread

this is how we do it.......

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Re: Local history Thread

Postby trini mk5 » April 24th, 2011, 3:08 pm

Bump for a bess thread

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Re: Local history Thread

Postby d spike » August 23rd, 2011, 10:37 am

Local place-names reflect the richness of the history of the place itself... one reason why I'm against this "let's re-name this spot" sickness that seems to afflict so many folks today - folks who either suffer from forgetfulness, ignorance, or that syndrome that says "new is better" and includes bright lights that induce awe and amnesia at the same time.
Place-names are indedible markers in local history that display the original inhabitants, their language, their grit... and their bad habits. :lol:
While we were owned by the Spanish and then by the English, the language of the people was always French - or it's patois.
This new trend to refer to San Juan using the same pronunciation as is done for the town of the same name in Puerto Rico just shows the individual's knowledge of proper Spanish and his ignorance of local history. The old way of saying it ( like "Sah War") has an interesting reason for existing. While the Spanish named it, the French-speaking folk who populated it, expanded it, kept it alive and filled its streets with their patois, pronounced its name with their own twist - instead of translating it to the French. This "is yours, buh we go do wha' we want wit' it" is definitely a Trini thing...
So just because yuh want to impress de panyol chicks who listening dat yuh know Spanish, yuh go dis' we contry history? Look here...

As I'm on this topic of "San"...
PLEASE per-nunks de people place name pro-per-lee, nah, oh gorm... Yuh only displayin' yuh iggerunce... It is "Sah Souci" NOT "San Souci"! First of all, if yuh wants ter be picky, it is spelled Sans Souci - not San Souci - so if yuh mus' be dotish about it, at least say "Sans".... Secondly, it is French, not Spanish, so "sans" is pronounced "sah". It means "without", and "souci" means "cares", so "Sans Souci" means "without cares" or "without worries" ("No worries!") or "carefree".
"San" in Spanish means "Saint", as in San Fernando or (heh heh) San Juan...

Trinidad is full of names whose meaning reflects a rich history... and so many are blissfully unaware of this.
Cumana has an area called Anglais ("English" in Spanish) and it was here that a bunch of English had an illegal settlement during the time when Trinidad was still Spanish. (The number of Spanish in Trinidad was so small that policing the island was out of the question!) What little I know of this was that the Spanish finally got a gang of (Dutch?) mercenaries to travel to Cumana to wipe out the settlement...

During the American war for Independence, negro slaves that fought on the side of the British Crown were promised their freedom and property. When the Brits lost, they still had to fulfill their promises and reward their loyal soldiers. As they couldn't give them any land in America (America was no longer theirs to give away bits and pieces of) they shipped them out to their colonies. As far as logistics were concerned, it was easiest to do this by the companies the soldiers were in.
Those who were sent to Trinidad caused a major problem. The local honkies were scandalized that their Crown would be allowing free negroes to mingle with the local enslaved versions... this could cause the wrong sort of ideas to develop - that negroes could actually thrive as freedmen, without the paternal guidance provided by an owner.
So the ex-soldiers were given property deep in the interior - far from the "civilised" areas, so the common negro could go about his master's business, free from the possibility of dealing with the alien concept of a free negro.
They settled in their companies, and some named their villages thusly, such as "Third Company". Some were dissatisfied with the rough deal or "Hard Bargain" they were given, and named their village just so. Some of these fellows complained to the authorities, and got a "New Grant" of land. These were a hard-working people, and they took their gift of hardship in stride, clearing then building their villages themselves. They maintained their own religion (Baptist) and their way of life for many years, far from the town-life - for this reason, many never knew about them, nor understood why the older heads would refer to themselves as "Merrikins"...

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Re: Local history Thread

Postby Rory Phoulorie » August 23rd, 2011, 6:37 pm

Interesting information d spike. Where did you get this information from? The older generation living in these communities?

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Re: Local history Thread

Postby nareshseep » August 23rd, 2011, 6:53 pm

d spike yuh should write a book

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Re:

Postby zoom rader » August 23rd, 2011, 7:23 pm

xtech wrote:Trinidad and Tobago banknotes

A brief monetary history:
British currency, till 1905
Trinidad and Tobago Dollar = 100 Cents, 1905-1951
British East Caribbean Territories currency, 1951-1964
Trinidad and Tobago Dollar = (British Caribbean Dollar) = 100 Cents, from 1964


1905 TT dollar
Image

1939-1943
Image

1964
Image
1977
Image


WTF these are my Notes ! anyway all these are for sale and I have much more T&T notes

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Re: Local history Thread

Postby idlemind » August 23rd, 2011, 7:51 pm

Anyone know what's the story with the abandoned church north of West Mall traffic lights?
It looks Catholic and road works are being done around the structure. It has an errie feeling everytime I pass coz if it's in the way of the works why don't they just demolish it?

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Re: Local history Thread

Postby d spike » August 23rd, 2011, 8:35 pm

Rory Phoulorie wrote: Where did you get this information from? The older generation living in these communities?

From reading...

The generation who knew only of their grandparents' mysterious reference to themselves as "Merrikins" has all but passed on.

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Re: Local history Thread

Postby Seeker » August 23rd, 2011, 8:41 pm

Lots of good info there. I have some pics somewhere of the QPS in the 1940s, pics of Belmont at that time when it was full of gardens and large butterflies...to believe it, u have to see it.

I also read somewhere that Waller Field was an airfied...the same runway was used as the dragstrip. The Feed mill at Carlsen Field was the site of another WWII airfield and German POWS was sometimes moved here to transfer to America. The Golden Grove Prison was an Army barracks and jungle training was done here to prepare the allies for battle against the japanese in the south pacific (Fort Read I think, was the name).There is another airfield in Pt. Fortin near the golf course. My grandmom related stories of airships visiting that said Pt. Fortin airstrip when she was a little girl in WWII.

There are some pics of this somewhere. I will post them when i could locate them.

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Re: Local history Thread

Postby Rory Phoulorie » August 23rd, 2011, 8:54 pm

I recall a History Channel programme indicating that Franklin D. Roosevelt (President of the USA) overnighted in Trinidad either on his way to or from, I can't remember, Europe during World War II. His plane landed at the Waller Field airbase.

The infrastructure that the Americans constructed at Wallerfield is amazing given the period over which it took them to build everything. There are some massive and long box culverts that traverse the site that are still in excellent condition.

Those taxiways and runways are constructed with 45MPa cylindrical strength concrete. Just for reference, typical buildings are constructed with 21MPa to 28MPa cylindrical strength concrete and what we term "high strength" concrete here in Trinidad is usually only 35MPa cylindrical strength.

War knows no rest periods. Everything there is over-designed to minimise any downtime.

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Re: Local history Thread

Postby d spike » September 3rd, 2011, 7:28 am

Sunday Express wrote:Unveiling The History Of The Baptist Companies
By Zahra Gordon

Story Created: Aug 26, 2011 at 9:35 PM ECT

Story Updated: Aug 26, 2011 at 9:35 PM ECT

The Gopaul Lands, Marabella bedroom of Augustus Lewis is filled with pride, disappointment and anger as about 10 people of Merikin descent convene for a weekly meeting to discuss the Merikin Heritage Project—a blueprint for celebrating the history of six companies of African-American soldiers settled in Trinidad in the early 1800s.

They do not usually meet in Lewis's bedroom or with unpleasant feelings, but the circumstances on this particular Saturday are exceptional. Lewis, founder of the organisation, recently suffered a stroke and was unable to leave the room; this was also the week after members had been informed—a mere five days before the scheduled opening on August 17, 2011—that the planned exhibit on the history of the Merikins of Moruga would be postponed until further notice.

Members say that National Museum officials cited "lack of funding" and "lack of ministerial support" as the reasons for this untimely action. When they received the information, three visiting overseas lecturers scheduled to speak at the opening had already arrived in this country.

"Why did it take so long to figure out that they didn't have enough funding?" asks Professor Tina Dunkley, Director of Clark Atlanta University Art Galleries in Atlanta, Georgia. "As budgets go, being appropriated for a certain amount of projects and programmes, why, at the very last moment, with no indication or notifying of the people who've already bought tickets and elected to come? To put them in that kind of situation is very awkward."

Dunkley is also of Merikin descent—fourth Company—and has recently located records, through national archives in both Port of Spain and London, of her enslaved ancestors who were soldiers the British Army during the War of 1812, which afforded them freedom. At the end of the war, six companies were eventually settled in south-east Trinidad between 1815 and 1816 in what is now known as the Company Villages along the Moruga Road with each being granted 16 acres of land. The name "Merikin" derives from American. While this amazing story is detailed in the booklet The Merikens: Free Black American Settlers in Trinidad 1815-16 by anthropologist John McNish Weiss, it has also been kept alive through the oral histories of descendants.

While browsing a catalogue of a Merikin family reunion held in Trinidad, Dunkley spotted the unusual name—Bukusu—of a great-uncle she remembers her aunt constantly speaking about. Dunkley was delighted to connect with the Trinidadian Merikins as well as share her research at an evening of lectures and discussions, "We the Merikins" hosted in First Company Village on August 17th. A visual artist, Dunkley is currently producing work for an exhibition on the history of her family and the Merikins.

The postponement of this exhibit, however, was yet another disappointment that has left some members to believe they have only themselves and other interested or generous citizens to depend on. The Merikin Heritage Project has morphed from what began as a family fraternity to what is now a non-profit organisation under the full title of Foundation of the Devil's Woodyard Volcano and Heritage Sites Company.

The Amphy & Bashana Jackson Fraternity began in the 1980s and hosted Merikin family reunions, but there was soon a call for expansion that would benefit and enhance the lives of the entire Merikin population.

In 2004, the formal name was adopted following meetings with UNESCO representatives when the plan to use 97 acres of land near the Company Villages, Moruga, for the Merikin Heritage Project was developed. UNESCO approached the group as 2004 had been declared the International Year to Commemorate the Struggle Against Slavery and its Abolition. The proposed project includes a museum, a research institute, an indigenous fruit orchard and other agricultural endeavours.

However, both UNESCO and Trinidad government officials involved in the meetings have not followed through on any plans or promises although Lewis says that the Merikins and their villages are protected under the National Trust of Trinidad & Tobago.

"We believed we needed people to assist and the people who we believed would assist are trying to spoil whatever plans we have," says Michael Toussaint, member of the board of directors.The directors are continuing with their efforts, however, and are planning a festival to be held in 2012 – the bicentennial of the War of 1812.

Akilah Jaramogi, who was the organisation's liaison for the exhibition is questioning the UN declaration of 2011 as the International Year for People of African Descent. "I went to UNESCO. I sat there with Susan Shurland and Hart Edwards. I did submit a proposal to them only to be told there is no money. I went to the foreign affairs ministry; I had a conversation with Mr Green, also to be told there is no money. So how serious is thing about International Year of People of African Descent when we are showing you directly that we are ready to tell our story to move forward and the state wasn't prepared. No one was prepared to really work with us"

The Merikins however remain a close-knit community and are determined that their story will be told. Like Dunkley, many believe it is their duty to keep this history alive: "It was an honour to be among diasporic Africans who possess considerable knowledge as to the fate of their ancestors during the epic of enslavement. We in America are most familiar with Harriet Tubman and the Underground Railroad, but to excavate yet another epic saga of people who chose to relieve their souls on fire by escaping during a war, and taking up arms against their oppressor is just a story that must be shared. Our fore-parents had no means of uttering, except among themselves, much less, writing, about their harrowing plight," says Dunkley.

To find out more information about the Merikin Heritage Project and updates of events, contact: Akilah Jaramogi 689-7794, Augustus Lewis 658-3367, Phyllis George 720-2336. To make a donation to their efforts: First Citizens Bank, Marabella, Foundation of the Devil's Woodyard, #1936195

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Re: Local history Thread

Postby bluefete » September 3rd, 2011, 8:48 am

@Spike: Don't forget "Champs Fleurs". So many people get that spelling wrong!!

It would be interesting to find out the true history of the Arawaks.

Carib blood runs in my family and I can assure all that the Caribs were NOT cannibals as the Eurpoeans have so many believing.

Trinidad & Tobago history is so fascinating. But as long as we continue to view old buildings as relics to be destroyed and fail to record the history (orally or otherwise) of our parents, grandparents and great-grand parents, we will continue to be a lost society.

That Merikin article is a classic case in point. State support for history is essential. Sadly, even the government (past & present) does not get it.

We must be grounded in our history to understand where we are going as a society.

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Re: Local history Thread

Postby d spike » September 3rd, 2011, 5:45 pm

bluefete wrote:It would be interesting to find out the true history of the Arawaks.

What do you mean by "true"? What is it that you want to know?

bluefete wrote:Carib blood runs in my family and I can assure all that the Caribs were NOT cannibals as the Eurpoeans have so many believing.

Oh, of course... and you can assure this is because...
1) you were there...
2) your family has written documentation that states clearly that they were not cannibals...
3) you can provide proof that the reports of cannibalism were false...

Please.
Just because it sounds bad, and you don't like it, isn't proof that it didn't exist.
Wishing something didn't happen, and claiming loudly that it was a falsehood, doesn't make it so.

...and having Carib blood is of no consequence in disclaiming such a story - in fact, it implies that your statement is based more on emotion than proof.

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Re: Local history Thread

Postby bluefete » September 3rd, 2011, 6:02 pm

d spike wrote:
bluefete wrote:It would be interesting to find out the true history of the Arawaks.

What do you mean by "true"? What is it that you want to know?

bluefete wrote:Carib blood runs in my family and I can assure all that the Caribs were NOT cannibals as the Eurpoeans have so many believing.

Oh, of course... and you can assure this is because...
1) you were there...
2) your family has written documentation that states clearly that they were not cannibals...
3) you can provide proof that the reports of cannibalism were false...

Please.
Just because it sounds bad, and you don't like it, isn't proof that it didn't exist.
Wishing something didn't happen, and claiming loudly that it was a falsehood, doesn't make it so.

...and having Carib blood is of no consequence in disclaiming such a story - in fact, it implies that your statement is based more on emotion than proof.


Here we go again!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Spikey: I refuse to take a European "history" writer's perspective that the Caribs who ferociously defended their native land against oppressors and conquerors were cannibals.

Why don't you tell us about the Europeans who TAUGHT the Mative Americans how to scalp their enemies? I don't recall seeing this written in many history books!!!!!!!

Why don't you tell us about the Europeans who TAUGHT the Pacific Islanders that rear entry sex was a bad thing and only face to face sexual positions were acceptable? Thus the missionary position.

Don't get me started here on European and Revisionist history.

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Re: Local history Thread

Postby d spike » September 4th, 2011, 10:38 am

bluefete wrote:I refuse to take a European "history" writer's perspective that the Caribs who ferociously defended their native land against oppressors and conquerors were cannibals.

Ohhhh boy. Bluefete... leave the emotion and guesswork out of this nah...

I love my country and its history, including the parts where the invaders got their arse handed to them on a plate by the locals (starting with poor old Sedeno - and those weren't Caribs who served him, by the way)... and I can't stand people who twist history to suit themselves... the truth is the truth... just because YOU find one aspect of a people's culture disagreeable, doesn't mean you can say it didn't happen.

Stating proof is perfectly acceptable. Stating how you "feel", or how you refuse to accept the statements of others because you don't like what they did, leave that for the religious threads, okay? This is about history.

That aside, I would really like to further this discussion, as I find it very disappointing that many Trinis know so little about the First Trinis, and I would be glad to read your input.

bluefete wrote:Why don't you tell us about the Europeans who...

Calm down. My focus is on my country's history. That is what this thread is about. If you really have a problem with some group of people, then go wave a banner in front of the UN.

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Re: Local history Thread

Postby d spike » September 4th, 2011, 12:01 pm

Were the "Caribs" cannibals?
In order to answer this question, one would first have to deal with two issues, both of which are full of misconceptions: who were the 'Caribs', and; what is meant by 'cannibalism'.

When I was young, we were taught that the West Indian Amerindians were divided into two groups, the Caribs and the Arawaks, the Caribs being warlike and the Arawaks being peaceful. Both concepts (two groups, polarized behaviour) are in error.
There were different groups, and as Sedeno found out, the arawakan groups that lived in Trinidad were well versed in war, and enjoyed a good fight.
Sedeno was a conquistador who, upon realising Trinidad was just spitting distance away from the mainland, and so could be used as a base in his search for El Dorado, wrote to the Spanish Crown claiming he had subdued the Trini natives and he and his men were settling in Trinidad, and requested the rank of governor. (He had never set foot here, and was at the time in Puerto Rico.) The Crown responded, granting him the title of Governor of Trinidad. He then sailed to Trinidad, and landed somewhere on the Southern coast. A chief convinced him to head north across the Gulf to land at Mucurapo, as gold could be found there. (Trini had setupmen even then.) In the time it took Sedeno to sail across the Gulf, communication via runners had been sent out from the village to other chiefs inviting them to a fun day with the Spaniards.
The battle at Mucurapo was a prolonged ordeal, both on land and in the water, during which Sedeno discovered that the natives could swim underwater and shoot arrows at the same time, and included a regrettable incident involving the natives claiming to request peaceful negotiations and luring Sedeno and his men back to the shore - Sedeno made it back to his ship alive, though that cannot be said for many of his party. (Never trust a Trini who says he just wants to talk.)

Among the "Arawaks", the Tainos (the peaceful Arawaks spoken of by early Europeans) captured and enslaved the surviving Ciboney, who had populated the West Indies earlier.

Cannibalism is a broad term. When we use it, we infer that other humans were viewed as a food source. Among the Kalinago, the "Caribs" (who didn't settle in Trinidad) as they were called, it was a war ritual. (Eating your enemy has quite a few implications regarding superiority, acquiring strength, invincibility, and no doubt a certain degree of enjoyment :D )

Instances of cannibalism were noted as a feature of war rituals: the limbs of victims may have been taken home as trophies. The Kalinago would chew and spit out one mouthful of flesh of a very brave warrior, so that he could take on his bravery; but there was no evidence that they ate humans to satisfy hunger.

Italian explorer Giovanni da Verrazzano was killed and said to have been eaten by Carib natives on what is now Guadeloupe in 1528, during his third voyage to North America, after exploring Florida, the Bahamas and the Lesser Antilles.

Historians have described the cannibalism as related to war rituals. Columbus and his people did not understand what they were seeing, and they were shocked at this cannibalism. In 1503, Queen Isabella ruled that only people who were better off under slavery (a definition which explicitly included cannibals) could legally be taken as slaves. This provided Spaniards an incentive and legalistic pretext for identifying various Amerindian groups as cannibals to enslave them and take their lands away.

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Re: Local history Thread

Postby SMc » September 4th, 2011, 12:44 pm

^^Thats the story I know...I could be very wrong (as usual) but think the 'Caribs' only really settled as far as St. Lucia. I remember bringing this up with my history teacer in form 1 and he told me to be quiet, its not what is in the text :(

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Re: Local history Thread

Postby Seeker » September 4th, 2011, 4:14 pm

great info d spike

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Re: Local history Thread

Postby d spike » September 4th, 2011, 10:21 pm

SMc wrote:^^Thats the story I know...I could be very wrong (as usual) but think the 'Caribs' only really settled as far as St. Lucia. I remember bringing this up with my history teacer in form 1 and he told me to be quiet, its not what is in the text :(


I don't know what you're usually wrong about :lol: but in a way you're right this time... but a bit wrong, too. :mrgreen:
Depending on the text you used in Form 1, feel free to toss it out - along with your seemingly narrow-minded teacher. He had every right to use that point to lead a remarkable discussion on the settlement behaviour of the "Caribs".
The part about "as far as St. Lucia" is off, as there were Carib settlements in Grenada and Tobago. Caribs are supposed to have been the amerindians that settled in a small area on our North Coast during post-Colombian history. There was a Mission set up there by some Capuchin monks (if I recall rightly) to serve these indians - hence the name of the place, Mission (just past Toco). Sadly, a cholera epidemic wiped out the settlement at Mission.
The reason why I imply that your point is worth debating, is that these people left South America heading North along the island chain, visiting each island in turn. Why then, did they not settle in the larger islands (Trinidad, for example) as these would certainly had a greater abundance of food? The argument that the Kalinago were sea-going people, and therefore preferred the smaller islands for easy access to the sea is but a moot point. Bigger islands have more coastline, more resources. The fishing in Trinidad would certainly be better due to greater organic content in the water.
Why then did they push on northwards?

The only argument I think holds water is that their society was based on war, and so they needed opponents in order to maintain their way of life.
This might also explain why the Nepoya and Suppoya, the Arawakan tribes that inhabited Trinidad at the time of Columbus, were so war-like... and would also explain why the Kalinago didn't settle here. The boys here would have had to deal with successive waves of Caribs - they had to have grown accustomed to regular skirmishing. Columbus claims to have seen these fellows on the South Coast holding shields - a defensive weapon not found among the Amerindians on any other island! (Or Columbus was lying as usual, eh Bluefete?)
We are told that when Sedeno landed at Mucurapo, he met a force of 3000 indians. These original Trinis seemed to like a good punch-up. With gentlemen like that as neighbours, it might then be easy to understand why the Kalinago didn't linger for long here...

As far as texts are concerned, many of the secondary school books that deal with local history tend to base their material on what happened on the other West Indian islands, from the amerindians, right to slavery issues (all of which is based on incidents in Jamaica, Haiti, and the Southern States of America).
Even the primary school texts fall prey to the weight of ignorance. I have seen texts in which there are pictures depicting Columbus' landing in Trinidad - something which never happened, by the way. He had a severe attack of gout at the time, so all he saw of Trinidad was what he could see from his deck, with his feet heavily wrapped in flannel - then a popular remedy for gout. He did send a couple sailors ashore on the southern coast to collect barrels of fresh water from the mouth of a river that was spotted (presumably Moruga River).
The pictures even show Amerindians cowering in fear behind coconut trees - a type of plant which was brought by the Portuguese to the West Indies a lot later.
...so most of the texts that were in use up until recently could safely be used as a cheap alternative resource in the privy... it certainly wouldn't degrade the quality of the written material of the ones I have seen.

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Re: Local history Thread

Postby madd » September 5th, 2011, 12:12 am

nice thread

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Re: Local history Thread

Postby MISHI » September 5th, 2011, 1:06 am

Ok here's some pics of a couple stuff I had lying around the house:

Image
Santa Rosa 1952: A horse named New Rocket (not sure if it was a Tobago horse) winning Ocean pearl Handicap 13th sep 1952

Image
I know you can find these almost anywhere:

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Many knew TTAS... here's an old pin from late 60's/ 70's

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And the oldest thing I have: a 300+ year old 18th century plantation house bedroom key.

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Re: Local history Thread

Postby cinco » September 5th, 2011, 8:10 am

d spike
MOARRRR
I can sit and read your explanations all day

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Re: Local history Thread

Postby r3iXmann » September 5th, 2011, 8:26 am

d spike wrote:It is "Sah Souci" NOT "San Souci"! First of all, if yuh wants ter be picky, it is spelled Sans Souci - not San Souci - so if yuh mus' be dotish about it, at least say "Sans".... Secondly, it is French, not Spanish, so "sans" is pronounced "sah". It means "without", and "souci" means "cares", so "Sans Souci" means "without cares" or "without worries" ("No worries!") or "carefree".
"San" in Spanish means "Saint", as in San Fernando or (heh heh) San Juan...



actually, 'sans' in french is pronounced as 'soh-nz' (light touch on the n)

"sah" in french is ça, comme ça, comprenez?

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Re: Local history Thread

Postby MG Man » September 5th, 2011, 9:23 am

woh is all this light touchin wid de spike bai????

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Re: Local history Thread

Postby triniboy » September 5th, 2011, 10:32 am

Does anyone else know about this?

about 10-15 years ago, i read an article in the Trinidad Express where some hikers were hiking through the unfamiliar parts of the Northern range and they stumbled upon some metal debris which turned out to be reminants of a plane crash probably from a plane during ww2.

i never heard about this story ever again and was hoping someone else knows about this.

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Re: Local history Thread

Postby Rallyfignis » September 5th, 2011, 8:58 pm

But ent Arima is supposed to be full of Carib descendants?

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Re: Local history Thread

Postby Seeker » September 5th, 2011, 9:01 pm

I wonder if the wreckage belonged to Mikey Ciprani's plane "the humming bird" that went down in the northern range in 1940.

He was killed in the crash and was mourned by thousands of people. He was sort of adventurer and a WWI hero who distinguished himself in the battle of Verdun. He was considered to be greatest athlete in 1920s & 1930s.

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Re: Local history Thread

Postby sMASH » September 5th, 2011, 10:12 pm

some thing i wondered about when i did history in college. i learned that the caribs inhabited the smaller islands and were warlike, but few in number compared to the arawaks who were greater in number, but not that aggressive. i thought every now and then about how could a warlike group of people be few in number compared to a more docile group. i thought that they would have over powered the arawaks and over take them.
docile people only hold out against attacks if they have significantly good defense and a good way of supporting itself.

thinking of it now, i have the gif with the zangief kid in mind i.e. the arawaks weren't as docile as they were made to seem, is just that they were not the aggressors in every confrontation is all.



i mother's family from around the new grant area, and i bet that i know more about the history and origins than all of them combined. i could understand how history disappears.

my lil cousins and them, don't know nothing nor care bout nothing. they still don't know if gaza is in trinidad or jamaica... and it only comes up if i ask them if they know where gaza is.

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Re: Local history Thread

Postby d spike » September 5th, 2011, 10:32 pm

triniboy wrote:Does anyone else know about this?

about 10-15 years ago, i read an article in the Trinidad Express where some hikers were hiking through the unfamiliar parts of the Northern range and they stumbled upon some metal debris which turned out to be reminants of a plane crash probably from a plane during ww2.

i never heard about this story ever again and was hoping someone else knows about this.

Seeker wrote:I wonder if the wreckage belonged to Mikey Ciprani's plane "the humming bird" that went down in the northern range in 1940.

No Seeker, the crash triniboy is talking about was a torpedo bomber Avenger.
Triniboy, the guns from that crashed plane were collected and are displayed in the Aviation Museum in Chagauramas.
Six (I believe) Grumman TBF Avengers were stationed at the airfield at Galera in Toco, as part of the anti-submarine war in "Torpedo Alley", as the area off our North Coast was called. This area was the most notorious stretch of water where German U-boats were concerned in WWII - even though if you 'google' "Torpedo Alley", you will get an area off America... (sigh, the things folks prefer to remember)
The Toco airfield was supposedly the only airfield in the world with a sharp curve at the end - as your undercarriage lifted off the ground at take-off, you needed to pull sharply to one side to avoid the light-house!

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Re: Local history Thread

Postby d spike » September 5th, 2011, 10:38 pm

Seeker wrote:I wonder if the wreckage belonged to Mikey Ciprani's plane "the humming bird" that went down in the northern range in 1940.

He was killed in the crash and was mourned by thousands of people. He was sort of adventurer and a WWI hero who distinguished himself in the battle of Verdun. He was considered to be greatest athlete in 1920s & 1930s.

Mikey's plane crash-site was identified - wreckage and the bodies of Mikey and his friend were brought back out of the forest... the plane's propeller was placed on his grave, if I remember rightly. Gaylord at the museum in Chaguaramas should be able to tell you exactly where the crash-site is.

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Re: Local history Thread

Postby d spike » September 5th, 2011, 11:23 pm

Rallyfignis wrote:But ent Arima is supposed to be full of Carib descendants?

It "supposed" to be, isn't it... ignorance is a helluva thing :lol: :lol: :lol:
Think about it...
You know about your family based on what you are told by your elders.
The Amerindian was seen as a heathen savage that needed to be given a healthy dose of religion, clothing, and just enough education to despise their own culture (thus inculcating a sense of lack of self-worth) and enough to idolize their saviours, the religion-bearing Spaniards (thus inculcating a sense of comfort at being second-class citizens happy to serve their betters).
The term "Carib" carried quite a negative connotation (somewhat like the usage of the term "guaraun" or "warahoon") so referring to someone of amerindian descent as a "Carib" or as having Carib blood, was rather like calling a local socially well-placed, fair-skinned mulatto "n*gger" in the early 60's...
So it was easy to refer to the descendants of those amerindians who gave Sedeno (and others later on) the asswhuppin' of their lives, as "Caribs"...
These descendants, interbred with cocoa-panyol and negro, all under the guiding hand and lecturing tongue of the R.C. Church - which knows exactly how to make you feel grateful for its guidance and at the same time extremely guilty about your heathen past - never were encouraged to recall or record their past...
Aspects of their culture that were part of daily life survived (farine-making for example) but religion and social knowledge (the only other aspects of a Stone-age culture) were replaced with Spanish Catholicism...
...and just like the descendants of African slaves, stripped of all knowledge of their actual culture, who willingly accept anything with yards of patterned cloth, decorated headgear and odd-sounding names as "African culture" (even though such a thing doesn't exist, as Africa is such a widespread country with a variety of cultures) so too, our happy little gang in Arima harken back to South America and glean whatever oddities they find that they fondly think of as what they "lost"...

...but ignore me... after all, this is "Carib country"...

Something that is unfortunately too Trini-like was the thinking of the Bandar-log (the Monkey-people) in Rudyard Kipling's "The Jungle Book". They would form large groups and talk absolute rubbish, while every now and then shout out together in one voice, "We all say so, it must be true"...

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