The Religion Discussion

[bluefete]

Razkal - I humbly await your response on evolution.

So why you logicalists could quote all kinds of things to back up your points but I can't quote the Bible or Qu'ran or whatever to back up mine?

You see, God's word trumps "intellect" every time.

BTW - I'm sorry the "Muslim" thread was pulled because we had a pretty good discussion going there.

[equal2zero]

With all due respect bluefete, it seems as though idiocy and blind faith trumps rational thought when it comes to you. You're exactly the type of person one wouldn't want to get involved in this sort of argument with

The 'all sorts of things' that people quote when arguing against the existence of God are most likely proven and tested scientific fact while you quote a story book professing it to be fact.

Why do you go and quote a story book? Because no scientific evidence whatsoever points towards the existence of an all seeing, all knowing sky fairy who closely monitors humans answering prayers, punishing sin, etc..

The minute someone starts quoting the Bible in a discussion such as this it ceases from being a discussion.

[bluefete]

With all due respect bluefete, it seems as though idiocy and blind faith trumps rational thought when it comes to you. You're exactly the type of person one wouldn't want to get involved in this sort of argument with

The 'all sorts of things' that people quote when arguing against the existence of God are most likely proven and tested scientific fact while you quote a story book professing it to be fact.

Why do you go and quote a story book? Because no scientific evidence whatsoever points towards the existence of an all seeing, all knowing sky fairy who closely monitors humans answering prayers, punishing sin, etc..

The minute someone starts quoting the Bible in a discussion such as this it ceases from being a discussion.

It would be interesting to read your take on evolution. Is it a theory or is it "scientific fact?"

[Sky]

Ideaology based on irrationality can never be argued against.
No matter how many facts you bring to the table, that ideaology will bring irrationality to oppose it.
Waste of time.

[Humes]

This discussion is a waste of time because you keep having to correct bluefete's incorrect assertions in every post.

You bring Fact A, he brings Incorrect Assumption B to refute it.

You point out that Incorrect Assumption B is incorrect, he brings Interpretation C to the table and presents it as fact.

You point out the difference between spiritual interpretation and rational thought, he brings back incorrect Assumption B as an example of why he believes rational thought is wrong.

And so on and so on. You spend more time correcting stuff science doesn't say than you do explaining the points that science actually makes. And the emotionality of the discussion doesn't make it any easier.



bluefete, when I was a Christian I learned about Christianity from the source material. I read the Bible, Christian literature, and I spoke with the elders in my church. So when I make my points against Christianity, I know what I'm talking about.

You should do the same for science and rational thought. Instead of learning some twisted version of evolution from a pastor's blog or some evangelist news site, go learn about it from an objective source. Go read a few science journals or speak to a science teacher. Because I hadda tell yuh, for the most part, you have very little idea what you're arguing against.

Best of luck.

[Humes]

I hate to start posting youtube videos, but this is a fantastic starting point for anyone interested in learning more about science. Simple language, no snark or abuse of religion, and quite comprehensive.


<embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/-h9XntsSEro&hl=en&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed>

[Sky]

This discussion is a waste of time because you keep having to correct bluefete's incorrect assertions in every post.

You bring Fact A, he brings Incorrect Assumption B to refute it.

You point out that Incorrect Assumption B is incorrect, he brings Interpretation C to the table and presents it as fact.

You point out the difference between spiritual interpretation and rational thought, he brings back incorrect Assumption B as an example of why he believes rational thought is wrong.

And so on and so on. You spend more time correcting stuff science doesn't say than you do explaining the points that science actually makes. And the emotionality of the discussion doesn't make it any easier.



bluefete, when I was a Christian I learned about Christianity from the source material. I read the Bible, Christian literature, and I spoke with the elders in my church. So when I make my points against Christianity, I know what I'm talking about.

You should do the same for science and rational thought. Instead of learning some twisted version of evolution from a pastor's blog or some evangelist news site, go learn about it from an objective source. Go read a few science journals or speak to a science teacher. Because I hadda tell yuh, for the most part, you have very little idea what you're arguing against.

Best of luck.

>20 lines

Ideaology based on irrationality can never be argued against.
No matter how many facts you bring to the table, that ideaology will bring irrationality to oppose it.
Waste of time.

4 lines saying the same thing
*teabags j000 *

[Humes]

Sometimes you have to spell things out for people.

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

This discussion is a waste of time because you keep having to correct bluefete's incorrect assertions in every post.

You bring Fact A, he brings Incorrect Assumption B to refute it.

You point out that Incorrect Assumption B is incorrect, he brings Interpretation C to the table and presents it as fact.

You point out the difference between spiritual interpretation and rational thought, he brings back incorrect Assumption B as an example of why he believes rational thought is wrong.

And so on and so on. You spend more time correcting stuff science doesn't say than you do explaining the points that science actually makes. And the emotionality of the discussion doesn't make it any easier.

Best of luck.

this should be the second post in all of bluefete's threads
starting with the one about freemasons

[slimshiney]

bluefete, when I was a Christian I learned about Christianity from the source material. I read the Bible, Christian literature, and I spoke with the elders in my church. So when I make my points against Christianity, I know what I'm talking about.

Best of luck.

There are some things that isn't worth arguing...I've seen conversions of this nature go on for years and yet still..NEVER A CONCLUSION..Men died without the answer to this question....

It's so simple...

We present our views..

Our personal beliefs

The justification for our choice.

Leave the rest up to FREE WILL...Every choice has consequences...WE ARE FREE TO OUR OPINIONS AND CHOICES.... I've presented my opinion several times......My opinions mixed with my life experiences has led me to make decisions that sure would stir up questions to the "logical ones " on this sweet forum....Sure wish i had the time to say more..

I guarantee you... in the same nature mentioned above....Whatatever "arguments" (videos,websites,texts) that comes up... i will be able to bring up a logical question against it...And thats our nature. TO QUESTION...

There are some things in life that requires a lot less logic.........one love to all!! ......Seriously One love to all...

p.s. Say a pray for the loved ones of all the ones that died as direct consequences...of the crime in our country..remember the family of the 5 killed this morning in curepe...

[bluefete]

Good but confusing video.

Allrighty. I think some of you are missing some of my points.

So evolution steers away from how life first started. Very interesting that.

But it takes up after the appearance of life. Even more interesting that.

I love the analogy in the video where they took the word "SEED" (at 5:27) and showed how many different words can evolve from it.

Methinks I read about that somewhere in a fairytale book called the "Bible".
This book showed how we are all descended from two people. Ah but you bright bulbs insist on calling this 'nonsense".

"Individual apes do not morph into humans" (at 6:22) but they share common characteristics say the evolutionists.

Methinks -YOU are being disingenuous. Let me help you.

"The Hominids: From 22 to 32 million years ago lived the first hominoids, primates thought to be ancestral to apes and humans only. Most hominoid evidence comes from Africa, but an animal living in Europe at that time was named Dryopithecus. Its name means 'oak ape", because its fossils were found with oak leaves. Hominoid and hominid (ancestral to humans only) fossils from 4 to 19 million years ago are scarce. This was the time that the stooped, large brained ape became the upright, smaller-brained ape-human." (Life, 3rd.Edition, Ticki Lewis - University of Albany, Ch17-19 - The Origin & Diversification of Life, pg.367).

That entire chapter is about Evolution in all its forms starting with the pre-biotic soup.

If apes and humans share a common ancestor, what exactly was that ancestor?

Why the heck allyuh can't make up your minds about what is what?

Why can't God work through evolution?

But NOT the evolution as taught by scientists.

"And the whole earth was of one language, and of one speech. ... And the Lord came down to see the city and the tower, which the children of men builded. And the Lord said, Behold, the people is one and they have all one language... Let us go down, and there confound their language, that they may not understand one another's speech. So the Lord scattered them abroad from thence upon the face of all the earth ... Therefore is the name of it called Babel; because the Lord did there confound the language of all the earth; and from thence did the Lord scatter them abroad upon the face of all the earth" (Genesis 11:1,5-9)

So why could these people not have evolved/adapted to their new environments? I do not see this as being so far-fetched.

You want to prove your point without God's word but you will never be able to do so. There will always be a link that you CANNOT explain. Half a million years from now, you will still have that missing link.

And please help me here:

How do evolutionists say life "really" started?

[missy77]

WOW...14 pgs and still nothing...it all comes down to this:

"As to those who reject faith, it is the same to them whether thou warn them or do not warn them; they will not believe."

God hath set a seal on their hearts and on their hearing. And on their eyes is a veil; great is the penalty they incur."

When it is said to them: "Believe as the others believe:" They say: "Shall we believe as the fools believe?" Nay of a surety they are the fools, but they do not know.

"And if are in doubt as to what We have revealed from time to time to Our servant, then produce a Surah like thereunto; and call your witnesses or helpers (if there are any) besides God, if your (doubts) are true."

"But if ye cannot - and of a surety ye cannot- then fear the fire whose fuel is men and stones,- which is prepared for those who reject Faith"

This pretty much summarised everything if in doubt then come up with something better!! U have been challenged...

The Qur'an Ch.2.

[Logic42]

scientific knowledge = fact
quote from bible = non fact

until you can prove everything in the bible actually happened, don't fkin quote stuff from it

[MG Man]

gee.........thanks from quoting Bible V2.0

[Sky]

Good but confusing video.

Allrighty. I think some of you are missing some of my points.

So evolution steers away from how life first started. Very interesting that.

But it takes up after the appearance of life. Even more interesting that.

I love the analogy in the video where they took the word "SEED" (at 5:27) and showed how many different words can evolve from it.

Methinks I read about that somewhere in a fairytale book called the "Bible".
This book showed how we are all descended from two people. Ah but you bright bulbs insist on calling this 'nonsense".

"Individual apes do not morph into humans" (at 6:22) but they share common characteristics say the evolutionists.

Methinks -YOU are being disingenuous. Let me help you.

"The Hominids: From 22 to 32 million years ago lived the first hominoids, primates thought to be ancestral to apes and humans only. Most hominoid evidence comes from Africa, but an animal living in Europe at that time was named Dryopithecus. Its name means 'oak ape", because its fossils were found with oak leaves. Hominoid and hominid (ancestral to humans only) fossils from 4 to 19 million years ago are scarce. This was the time that the stooped, large brained ape became the upright, smaller-brained ape-human." (Life, 3rd.Edition, Ticki Lewis - University of Albany, Ch17-19 - The Origin & Diversification of Life, pg.367).

That entire chapter is about Evolution in all its forms starting with the pre-biotic soup.

If apes and humans share a common ancestor, what exactly was that ancestor?

Why the heck allyuh can't make up your minds about what is what?

Why can't God work through evolution?

But NOT the evolution as taught by scientists.

"And the whole earth was of one language, and of one speech. ... And the Lord came down to see the city and the tower, which the children of men builded. And the Lord said, Behold, the people is one and they have all one language... Let us go down, and there confound their language, that they may not understand one another's speech. So the Lord scattered them abroad from thence upon the face of all the earth ... Therefore is the name of it called Babel; because the Lord did there confound the language of all the earth; and from thence did the Lord scatter them abroad upon the face of all the earth" (Genesis 11:1,5-9)

So why could these people not have evolved/adapted to their new environments? I do not see this as being so far-fetched.

You want to prove your point without God's word but you will never be able to do so. There will always be a link that you CANNOT explain. Half a million years from now, you will still have that missing link.

And please help me here:

How do evolutionists say life "really" started?

[slimshiney]

Like a good duracell ....on and on and on on and on and on on and on............now if/when we finally reach a point to believe there is a God....Next big question.....Which way points me to the correct road to the true God without placing me in some kinda bondage where i must do all kinda traditions and this and that to have true peace...and in the end..what happens to me after death is not even known.....some prefer to know that they know....

[bluefete]

WOW...14 pgs and still nothing...it all comes down to this:

"As to those who reject faith, it is the same to them whether thou warn them or do not warn them; they will not believe."

God hath set a seal on their hearts and on their hearing. And on their eyes is a veil; great is the penalty they incur."

When it is said to them: "Believe as the others believe:" They say: "Shall we believe as the fools believe?" Nay of a surety they are the fools, but they do not know.

"And if are in doubt as to what We have revealed from time to time to Our servant, then produce a Surah like thereunto; and call your witnesses or helpers (if there are any) besides God, if your (doubts) are true."

"But if ye cannot - and of a surety ye cannot- then fear the fire whose fuel is men and stones,- which is prepared for those who reject Faith"

This pretty much summarised everything if in doubt then come up with something better!! U have been challenged...

The Qur'an Ch.2.

Hey Missy77: When these logicalists cannot come up with a decent answer, they look to reject God at all turns.

Just by reading their responses you can see how frustrated they sound. For all the bashing they have done to God, they still cannot prove that he does not exist. Thanks for the post. I love the quote.

Logic42: You need to drop the scales from your eyes. You reject the proof because it does not jive with your pre-conceived notions. That sounds familiar. Oh yes, that's what they have been saying about me as well.

Sky: Read it in bits.

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

I sometimes wonder if aliens really do exist.
If some far advanced race were to visit earth, would they know of the bible, quran, vedas, gita, torah etc?

and no one answered my question:
When God made Adam and Eve and everything on this great Earth, why did he make the earth a planet?

[slimshiney]

^^Hey man...dig in ....u'll see what the bible accounts of "aliens"...there are pricipalities in high places....see what it even say about UFOs check it out... ...From the bible account...daily life existence anywhere apart from earth can't be Human...it will be other "things".......

[MG Man]

Just by reading their responses you can see how frustrated they sound.

you fer real?
berds, I ketchin so much kicks an allyuh tryin to save we....

[equal2zero]

Just by reading their responses you can see how frustrated they sound. For all the bashing they have done to God, they still cannot prove that he does not exist

In the same breath, you cannot prove that God does exist. We going around in circles here...

[bluefete]

:? Like a good duracell ....on and on and on on and on and on on and on............now if/when we finally reach a point to believe there is a God....Next big question.....Which way points me to the correct road to the true God without placing me in some kinda bondage where i must do all kinda traditions and this and that to have true peace...and in the end..what happens to me after death is not even known.....some prefer to know that they know....

SS: There is only one God. Problem is religions divide up God. Some into three, some into many.

I fully agree with you that "traditions" have disenchanted many people. But most of these "traditions"were set out by religion not God.

"For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups and many other such like things ye do. ... Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition which ye have delivered..." (Mark 7:8,13)

So many amazing things are happening because of this thread and God is using the sceptics in a mighty way to help educate so many. But please do not tell them that. They cannot understand as yet.

The issue of "death"; is a whole different kettle of fish and chips. Again the logicalists/agnostics would say they do not know what happens after death. But even I have questions in this area. Maybe we should examine it.

Again we start with the 'fairy tale" book.

Hope Channel presents
By Mark Finley
The Pyramids, the Bible and the
Secret of Death Revealed
The death of a loved one shakes us up. The question haunts us: “Can I find hope beyond the grave?â€

[slimshiney]

^^Blu it's good to quote....but it;s better to know it in ur head...and state it...ur replies would be a lot SHORTER and easier on the mind...

[MG Man]

So many amazing things are happening because of this thread and God is using the sceptics in a mighty way to help educate so many. But please do not tell them that. They cannot understand as yet.

oh gorm bluey, stop it nah...........yuh killin meh here

[slimshiney]

^^^looks like somebody having a ball

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

^^Hey man...dig in ....u'll see what the bible accounts of "aliens"...there are pricipalities in high places....see what it even say about UFOs check it out... ...From the bible account...daily life existence anywhere apart from earth can't be Human...it will be other "things".......

yup all the texts including the Bible and the Qur'an both have verses that make notions toward extra terrestrial life.

so you think these aliens will be following Christianity or Islam or Hinduism etc? Surely they should be following these definitive divine texts too!

just asking

[MG Man]

Aliens exist............the fact that they avoiding this asinine planet is proof of intelligent life out there

[bluefete]

I sometimes wonder if aliens really do exist.
If some far advanced race were to visit earth, would they know of the bible, quran, vedas, gita, torah etc?

and no one answered my question:
When God made Adam and Eve and everything on this great Earth, why did he make the earth a planet?

Well Duane: That would depend on whether the same God who made us made them. Then there would be harmonization of sorts. If they are anything as complicated as we are, they would have the same differences.

It would be interesting to see if they have "human" features as those who claim to have seen aliens imply.

What is a planet?

The word "planets" comes from the Greek word for "wanderer", an object that moves across the background of the fixed stars. http://www.astro.cornell.edu/~jlm/planet.html

The earth is not the only planet in the universe. Again, maybe God was trying to show us some form of harmony.

The difference is that we are a very special planet. If you look at the others in our solar system, we see tectonic and other forces at work but those planets are not placed at the right location for earth life.

Everything has a purpose and a reason.

[bluefete]

So many amazing things are happening because of this thread and God is using the sceptics in a mighty way to help educate so many. But please do not tell them that. They cannot understand as yet.

oh gorm bluey, stop it nah...........yuh killin meh here

I could hear you cackling even from here.

[MG Man]

what's your purpose, bluey?