Property Tax in Trinidad & Tobago

[Numb3r4]

That sounds like a mess.

Also if it requires 50% and more to register, and they don't have that to enact the tax, what if they never reach that threshold?

Since they can't compel the average property owner to declare then how do they get to the threshold?

Also wouldn't it help to computerize the Red House's land records? Wouldn't make this process easier?

I mean there is so much to be done before this tax gets implemented why not take this budget and the following year and publicly do these things and put them in place for everyone to see and then when it's all said and done come to the public and say hey we've done all this, this is what we have and this is what we propose.

[ProtonPowder]

So why do you think it’s taking so long to implement the property tax ?

You give the world too much credit

[screwbash]

So why do you think it’s taking so long to implement the property tax ?

You give the world too much credit

most pnm supporters living in hdc houses and doh even pay the small rent so them aint go pay the property tax either, the rest of them renting or squatting. is unc suppoters who go pay the tax.

[sMASH]

So why do you think it’s taking so long to implement the property tax ?

You give the world too much credit

most pnm supporters living in hdc houses and doh even pay the small rent so them aint go pay the property tax either, the rest of them renting or squatting. is unc suppoters who go pay the tax.

when ever property tax was pushed, they never spoke about HDC money, they always spoke about double and bhaigan sellers with big house in the back.

[88sins]

So why do you think it’s taking so long to implement the property tax ? Who stands to lose the most? Think about who owns multiple wealthy properties in Trinidad, think about how many government people own multiple homes that will also be subject to this same tax...
I bet they will come with some form of exclusion for those who have to pay. This tax, could be age related and remember the age of your current ministers and who might fall under this exclusion.
They want to ensure that while they tax the general public that most of their friends and family and themselves will fall under some form of exclusion so they don’t have to pay the tax themselves.
‘Watch and see. .e

Bend over with no lube ... budget 2020 coming

when you renting a building to the gov't, that building is exempt from property tax.
who thinks this is a coincidence?

[ProtonPowder]

dey go tief meh moarney :^(

[88sins]

dey go tief meh moarney :^(

is what politicians do.
but as long as I & my community benefit from our tax dollars being paid to these vermin, I got no issue with a property tax other than the bulls#it section where they can seize & sell your house to get any unpaid taxes one may have outstanding

that act (as written) essentially makes all property in this country property owned by the state.
So imagine you pay for something, have a document saying it's in your name & you own it outright, and the state telling you that you have to pay them in order to keep it, and if you don't pay they can & will kick you out & take it from you & sell it, and they charging you according to how much money they feel you could make from it for the year. All this after you done paid VAT on building materials/legal fees, Lord knows how much money in stamp duty & transfer fees, etc. IMHO, if they implement this tax they should abolish stamp duty.
I mean lewwe be real, how much they expect people to pay to buy & keep a house they telling them doesn't belong to them?





and allyuh vote for that.

[Redman]

So why do you think it’s taking so long to implement the property tax ?

You give the world too much credit

If when the tax comes in...people will have to start signing as beneficial owners of property..
Who benefits from the management system for the single largest asset base in the country remaining opaque, inefficient and enabling of fraudulent deals.?

Land fraud spiked on the suspension of the property tax.

[bluefete]

when you renting a building to the gov't, that building is exempt from property tax.
who thinks this is a coincidence?

Please explain.

I did not see that under Section 16 with the exemptions.

https://rgd.legalaffairs.gov.tt/laws2/a ... /76.04.pdf

[88sins]

when you renting a building to the gov't, that building is exempt from property tax.
who thinks this is a coincidence?

Please explain.

I did not see that under Section 16 with the exemptions.

https://rgd.legalaffairs.gov.tt/laws2/a ... /76.04.pdf

See 16:1.f


16. (1) All land in Trinidad and Tobago is liable to
taxation under this Act, subject to the following exemptions:
(f) land belonging to and in occupation of—
(i) the State or its servants;
(ii) a Statutory Authority; or
(iii) state enterprise controlled by the State,
for public purposes;

& 2:a
(2) For the purpose of subsection (1)(f) an
enterprise shall be taken to be controlled by the State, if the
Government or any body controlled by the Government—
(a) exercises or is entitled to exercise control
directly or indirectly over the affairs of the
enterprise;

Now tho this specifies "land", and says "belonging to and in occupation of" I suspect the final amended official version will include buildings

[adnj]

when you renting a building to the gov't, that building is exempt from property tax.
who thinks this is a coincidence?

Please explain.

I did not see that under Section 16 with the exemptions.

https://rgd.legalaffairs.gov.tt/laws2/a ... /76.04.pdf

See 16:1.f


16. (1) All land in Trinidad and Tobago is liable to
taxation under this Act, subject to the following exemptions:
(f) land belonging to and in occupation of—
(i) the State or its servants;
(ii) a Statutory Authority; or
(iii) state enterprise controlled by the State,
for public purposes;

& 2:a
(2) For the purpose of subsection (1)(f) an
enterprise shall be taken to be controlled by the State, if the
Government or any body controlled by the Government—
(a) exercises or is entitled to exercise control
directly or indirectly over the affairs of the
enterprise;

Now tho this specifies "land", and says "belonging to and in occupation of" I suspect the final amended official version will include buildings

If property is rented in toto to the State, the State cannot simultaneously be a tenant unto itself. Therefore 16.1.f does not apply and your argument is invalid.

[toyolink]

The property tax law/regulation/act/provision just continues to confuse me.
The question of 50% trigger seems to add to the mess since the question for me is...How do they know they reach 50% if in principle they dont know what is the number that represents 100%.

[ProtonPowder]

1) opinion of the commissioner
2)proxy quantities from wasa, t&tec, GIS

[aaron17]

Kamla begging for it to be delayed because of covid and job losses....
Rowley ..when he says hard times ahead means it will still come as planned.

[sMASH]

it eh have not fite up. proprietors, if they own businesses, will jess jack up prices to suit. all who buying and renting will hadda pony up.

[Ted_v2]

Big shed getting jam ent?

my two sheds nearly bigger than my house. owch

[ProtonPowder]

sheds bigger than the house is a common occurrence in some parts of the country

[zoom rader]

Ent Rowlee wanted to tax dog kennels and mini temples .

[bluefete]

NEWS
Rowley hits property tax
SEAN DOUGLAS SUNDAY 20 DECEMBER 2009

He said, “In my constituency there is anger, anxiety and resentment, at both ends of the spectrum.”

Saying the property tax is obviously a revenue-raising measure, he said people are saying if the Government had better handled its largesse, there would have been no need for this tax.

“Stop taking your own advice that nobody is annoyed...,” he advised the Government. He said they have brought the tax at the worst possible time, alluding to tough economic times. He repeatedly said that people were not against the idea of paying taxes but were upset that this measure could have been averted if the Government had acted differently previously, in its expenditure.

Rowley lamented that the Government in this bill had not taken the opportunity to begin a paradigm shift in how local government is treated. He lamented that the Tobago House of Assembly (THA) model – which holds local officials to a greater accountability to citizens – has not been adopted for local councils in Trinidad.

Saying the lifeblood of performance is money, Rowley said without such reform in Trinidad, the introduction of property tax would likely not bring improvements to local communities. Adding that the Government has not come clean over the property tax, he said the country would only have to wait until people’s bills are paid in September to find out if it is in fact a serious revenue earner.

“I suspect the three percent will be on values considerably higher than being made out to be. You’ll get good values for most properties,” he said, forewarning of high tax bills.

Scoffing at claims that some people might pay less tax than they now pay, Rowley quipped, “Don’t bother to tax me; Pass on the benefit.”

Rejecting the Government’s claim that the tax promoted equity between different people, he said there was no equity in North-West Regional Health Authority (NWRHA) CEO Agatha Carrington being sent on leave pending an audit, while Udecott executive director, Calder Hart, remains in office, despite revelations at the Uff Commission of Inquiry.

Rowley made the point that the property tax is being imposed for something that is not a revenue-earner for him, that is, his home. He said that through no act of their own, persons living on Diego Martin Main Road might have found the value of their house climb over the years to $1 million or $2 million, and now be liable to the property tax, despite never having any intention to sell it or rent it out.

“If you try to defend the indefensible, you’ll create resentment and provoke people, and that is what we have at the moment.”

Rowley said in areas of his constituency, such as Upper Cemetery Street, there are residents who must pay water rates despite the fact that no water flows in the water-pipes laid down four years ago. He said any hike in such water rates under the property tax would now amount to provocation.

Rejecting claims that the property tax won’t cause hardship, he said, “I know a lot of people for whom $100 is a lot of money. A lot are struggling to make ends meet.”

Alluding to talks this week between Acting Prime Minister Dr Lenny Saith and Jamaica Prime Minister Bruce Golding over Air Jamaica and Caribbean Airlines, he warned the Government not to fund Air Jamaica. He jibed that he would personally “mark” the dollar bills he was paying in property tax to ensure they were used for things such as hospitals and schools, not Air Jamaica.

https://archives.newsday.co.tt/2009/12/ ... poFUVzPlMw

[Numb3r4]

How have things improved in his constituency, has he since addressed the problems thus giving his constituents no reason to oppose the tax?

Have we improved local government?

The THA is a model that holds local officials to greater accountability?

Will the tax bring improvement?

Paying for services that we don't see value for....well that hasn't changed.

In 2009 during the height of an oil and gas boom (relatively speaking) people were struggling to make ends meet, are we now making ends meet, given the COVID-19, economic slow down and collapse in oil and gas prices?

Should I buy a sharpie to mark the bills I use to pay the tax?

Asking for a friend.

[88sins]

They want to roll out this property tax so bad is like they can already feel the heft of the money in their pockets.
No how it will make sense to pressure people with that until smarter money management starts and the usual squandermania ceases to exist. Why must the public be forced to pay for the failures of the current regime with regard to revenue collections and expenditure over the last five years, and pay not to improve on anything but simply to maintain the malpractice that has us in this negative position in the first place?

[j.o.e]

So allyuh bums and freeloaders never paid property tax before or even your parents ?

[meccalli]

So allyuh bums and freeloaders never paid property tax before or even your parents ?

Yeah, it was $100 for the year...
I don't think anyone is opposing the tax, they're opposing the method of valuation and the disparity across areas that can burn a hole in their pocket further. It's like being punished for living in a particular area or type of house..

[j.o.e]

So allyuh bums and freeloaders never paid property tax before or even your parents ?

Yeah, it was $100 for the year...
I don't think anyone is opposing the tax, they're opposing the method of valuation and the disparity across areas that can burn a hole in their pocket further. It's like being punished for living in a particular area or type of house..

After receiving the valuation are they unhappy?
What would be a maximum/ fair amount people would like to pay ? Honest question (of course this will differ based on income and budget )
Just trying to understand a range.

[meccalli]

Honestly I think a $500 to a $1000 a year would be fine with the most households, and that's still alot of money to be made.

[Premchand1976]

Honestly I think a $500 to a $1000 a year would be fine with the most households, and that's still alot of money to be made.

Can we ask what exactly is the tax monies collected going to be used for ????

[Redman]

So allyuh bums and freeloaders never paid property tax before or even your parents ?

Yeah, it was $100 for the year...
I don't think anyone is opposing the tax, they're opposing the method of valuation and the disparity across areas that can burn a hole in their pocket further. It's like being punished for living in a particular area or type of house..

After receiving the valuation are they unhappy?
What would be a maximum/ fair amount people would like to pay ? Honest question (of course this will differ based on income and budget )
Just trying to understand a range.

If Annual Rental value is about 4% of the valuation( valuation last month from R&P) and the tax is equating to 3% of the ARV we are looking at .0012%

or $1200 per million Val

per year.

is that correct?

[88sins]

So allyuh bums and freeloaders never paid property tax before or even your parents ?

So allyuh bums and freeloaders never paid property tax before or even your parents ?[/b]

nah, land & building taxes wasn't a property tax, it was a donation to our own lands and buildings that had to pass through govt & come back to property owners as invisible non-tactile currency

After receiving the valuation are they unhappy?
What would be a maximum/ fair amount people would like to pay ? Honest question (of course this will differ based on income and budget )
Just trying to understand a range.

The problem is multi-faceted
One being why should property owners be penalized and forced to pay a property tax that does nothing to benefit them, their property or their community, simply because they were willing to work hard and make the money to buy a home and not begging the state for a place to live.
Another being that the state is telling you flat outright if you don't pay them they can and will lawfully (according to them) take your house that you worked your arse off to pay for, and sell it to recover their tax, which makes all property owners tenants of the state, people that paid for their property outright to be know they actually own it. So no matter what you paid or paying for your home, it ain't yours.
Yet another being who is the state & it's minions to tell you how much your property is worth and how much you should pay accordingly? Look at it like this. Say you have to pay me for a vehicle you own, according to what I say it's worth. You might have paid 40K for it, and an independent valuator might have estimated it's value at 20K, but if I want as much as I can get from you it ain't difficult for me to say it's valued at 60K and is you have to prove to me I wrong for saying that it worth that much & you hadda pay accordingly to what I say, & I intentionally make it difficult for you to do this. See the problem? Independent third party valuators should have been contracted to do this in the interest of impartiality and fairness.


People wouldn't have as much of problem if the regional corps were to administer the property tax & spend it to do the necessary works in their communities. But you see how it is now? just more money to add to the pile they does used to do all kinda random shite that yields little to no tangible benefits to the taxpayer? That's an issue, especially in this hard time where it have real plenty people that really ketchin they nenen due to job losses and businesses closing in all sectors, knowing that some of those businesses may never recover.

Even clown inbutt admits, tax collection is significantly down, from vat, to corp tax to paye and practically all others. If ppl have no/limited money, the first thing they do is cut spending, when they do the state gets less taxes. And is now when ppl have limited resources they want to bring this? and say they HAVE to do it & the public HAVE to pay it for them to meet their usual expenditure? When it have PLENTY nonessential expenditure they could cut but don't want to? Ok, so the public supposed to pay it with what? they silver hairs?


this whole thing need to scrap and burn and start over in about 15 years when they figure out how to extract their heads from their asses

[Redman]

88 you throwing out Red Herrings.

BUT

I say implement the tax.....however reduce the tax to whatever level...change the formula.
While I think its reasonable in terms of 3% ArV- I take the economic points.

However the existence of a tax forces people to sign document, attest to ownership and declare beneficial interests.
It is a way to get started on the resolving land fraud-not just ministers and big wigs but also those that defraud small people.

I think we need to get going on that-22Billion in fraudulent deeds says something.

[ProtonPowder]

alyuh throwing around too many wrong figures here. Remember is based off of annual rental value and not capital value.

How are they assessing rental value? Are the rental values assessed anywhere even close to market rental rates?

Will the government actually assign rental rates above market rates and introduce all that potential for litigation?

Scroll back through the pages, all these questions have been answered in depth.