What is the PNM's plan for the economy?

[ingalook]

You are thinking about VAT like its a sales tax, in Trinidad - since it is included in the price it is a production cost

Any reduction in VAT benefits the retailer - NOT the consumer

The retailer charges the price the consumer is willing to pay, why would they cut their prices when VAT is reduced?

Meanwhile this reduction in VAT will cost the country 7.5 Billion over the next 5 years

You still have not given an upside to all of this Redman

Well from what you have said the consumer is willing to pay.

If the regulation indicate that Vat ex prices be identified on the receipts...and customers are willing to pay then what is the problem???
The consumer has the freedom not to pay the additional 2.5%.

If the consumer does not want to worry then that is their loss.
If they want to give the merchant the money without comparing prices then its their choice.

Caveat Emptor

Over all the consumer-individuals are not able to claim back VAT so therefore the lower the rate...the less VAT we pay.

The GORTT has to enforce compliance....and based on has been said thats what they intend to do.

As to upside....if the Govt does what they say they will do they will collect more.
So the consumer still pays less and the Gortt thinks they will collect more money..

If you have evidence beyond what you feel bring it.

That is your upside??? You are a special kinda cnut... So the country looses Billions of dollars - to benefit the richest citizens - meanwhile we taxing books, foodstuffs and computers to recoup the lost revenue....

AND your upside is the government MAY tighten up tax collection - which will drive prices even higher????

THEY SHOULD SHOOT YOU WITH SHEET AND CHARGE YOUR DUMN CNUT FOR SMELLING STINK!!!!

[Allergic2BunnyEars]

Well said ingalook. Great debating skills there.

[ingalook]

Ah sorry... but these spin doctors getting me real vex... I'm sure Redman is a cool dude if I meet him in person... But I'm starting to wonder how many tuners benefitting financially from this defense of the indefensible

[shake d livin wake d dead]

ah c d goodly PM say the plus side to adding vat to all the food stuff is so we could watch we diet.....

is he a dietician??? what the actual FCUK

[Redman]

You are thinking about VAT like its a sales tax, in Trinidad - since it is included in the price it is a production cost

Any reduction in VAT benefits the retailer - NOT the consumer

The retailer charges the price the consumer is willing to pay, why would they cut their prices when VAT is reduced?

Meanwhile this reduction in VAT will cost the country 7.5 Billion over the next 5 years

You still have not given an upside to all of this Redman

Well from what you have said the consumer is willing to pay.

If the regulation indicate that Vat ex prices be identified on the receipts...and customers are willing to pay then what is the problem???
The consumer has the freedom not to pay the additional 2.5%.

If the consumer does not want to worry then that is their loss.
If they want to give the merchant the money without comparing prices then its their choice.

Caveat Emptor

Over all the consumer-individuals are not able to claim back VAT so therefore the lower the rate...the less VAT we pay.

The GORTT has to enforce compliance....and based on has been said thats what they intend to do.

As to upside....if the Govt does what they say they will do they will collect more.
So the consumer still pays less and the Gortt thinks they will collect more money..

If you have evidence beyond what you feel bring it.

That is your upside??? You are a special kinda cnut... So the country looses Billions of dollars - to benefit the richest citizens - meanwhile we taxing books, foodstuffs and computers to recoup the lost revenue....

AND your upside is the government MAY tighten up tax collection - which will drive prices even higher????

THEY SHOULD SHOOT YOU WITH SHEET AND CHARGE YOUR DUMN CNUT FOR SMELLING STINK!!!!

Ok now that that is out of the way.... do you have any info besides your feelings?

You said the customers are willing to pay....I agree.
And if they are....then whats YOUR problem..??..
The rules say Vat must be properly disclosed......your thesis is that the merchants will not reduce and fudge the numbers and keep the 2.5%...but the customers are still willing to pay....sounds like normal price discovery.
If a customer is price sensitive they will find a merchant that complies and reduces price.
The fudger loses enough sales....then he will move the price.
Business tend to charge what the market will pay.
Customers have the ability NOT to buy.
If your businesses have pricing power then they operate in a competitive market....with other sellers.


If you check Hansard...you would see that the Min of Finance stated (last year)that PRACTICAL experience in TnT shows that the simpler the tax rules,easier the compliance and the Higher the % of compliant participants.
That the history their data shows.
So the over arching theory is to make it easier cheaper to comply and enforce the rules against tax dodgers.
Sounds legit, since there are working examples of a simple tax code having a relationship with compliance.

to benefit the richest citizens - meanwhile we taxing books, foodstuffs and computers to recoup the lost revenue....

Bring proof...I understand your claim....I think you are wrong...its more general alarmist stuff.....how many books/food/computers would you not buy due to the 12.5% tax??

tighten up tax collection - which will drive prices even higher????

So what you saying is that businesses not pocketing their savings from dodging taxes but passing on their savings through low prices...BUT THESE SAME BUSINESS WILL KEEP THE 2.5% VAT REDUCTION??????????????????????????

Increasing Compliance is standard basic commonsense.
Working the VAT able list to promote your policy is common sense.


thank you for thinking Im special.

[desifemlove]

ah c d goodly PM say the plus side to adding vat to all the food stuff is so we could watch we diet.....

is he a dietician??? what the actual FCUK

cos ah PM ent supposed to have he citizens welfare in mind...

cos hundreds of thousands of obese, fat, diabetes, cancer people/sufferes is good for T&T....cos freedom comes with responsibility to pre-empt youse and others' response.

[Gladiator]

ah c d goodly PM say the plus side to adding vat to all the food stuff is so we could watch we diet.....

is he a dietician??? what the actual FCUK

cos ah PM ent supposed to have he citizens welfare in mind...

cos hundreds of thousands of obese, fat, diabetes, cancer people/sufferes is good for T&T....cos freedom comes with responsibility to pre-empt youse and others' response.

Don't you think it would have been better to educate the population on what to eat and why... adding taxes to food not going to make people stop eating. They would sacrifice the healthy food now to get the KFC

The PM think we is all dumb fuks...

[brams112]

ah c d goodly PM say the plus side to adding vat to all the food stuff is so we could watch we diet.....

is he a dietician??? what the actual FCUK

cos ah PM ent supposed to have he citizens welfare in mind...

cos hundreds of thousands of obese, fat, diabetes, cancer people/sufferes is good for T&T....cos freedom comes with responsibility to pre-empt youse and others' response.

Don't you think it would have been better to educate the population on what to eat and why... adding taxes to food not going to make people stop eating. They would sacrifice the healthy food now to get the KFC

The PM think we is all dumb fuks...

Well said education about the dangers of certain foods will make people aware of the dangers,I personally will buy something that I want to eat even though it maybe costly,but in moderation,doctor told me cut down on certain foods,I did,but in moderation,thing is the government don't realise they can't force people into doing what they don't want to do.

[ingalook]

Redman

You just playing dotish now... I know its an act

You are pretending that you don't know how retailers act in Trinidad:

- Increases in production cost are passed to the consumer (usually with a hefty premium attached once they think the public is aware)

- Decreases in cost are considered profit, savings are passed to the consumer initially (like a month or 2) and then price returns to the old price IF NOT MORE

You remember what happened to prices when Kamla dem added a lot of foodstuffs to the Zero rated list? How long did the prices fall for - long enough for the public to forget about the VAT reduction - then what happened?

However... there is the big question of why now? Why reduce revenue by $1.5 Billion now???

[ingalook]

Tax evasion IS NOT a reduction in cost - THEY HAVE ALWAYS BEEN EVADING TAX - they don't know what it is to pay the proper taxes

Tighten up on tax collection and that increased operating cost is passed directly to the consumer

[1UZFE]

#welikeitso

[desifemlove]

ah c d goodly PM say the plus side to adding vat to all the food stuff is so we could watch we diet.....

is he a dietician??? what the actual FCUK

cos ah PM ent supposed to have he citizens welfare in mind...

cos hundreds of thousands of obese, fat, diabetes, cancer people/sufferes is good for T&T....cos freedom comes with responsibility to pre-empt youse and others' response.

Don't you think it would have been better to educate the population on what to eat and why... adding taxes to food not going to make people stop eating. They would sacrifice the healthy food now to get the KFC

The PM think we is all dumb fuks...

there is and has been education for some time. How many people seriously don't know fatty foods is bad and fibre is good? who cares, means more revenue for the state, this is the point.

[De Dragon]

ah c d goodly PM say the plus side to adding vat to all the food stuff is so we could watch we diet.....

is he a dietician??? what the actual FCUK

cos ah PM ent supposed to have he citizens welfare in mind...

cos hundreds of thousands of obese, fat, diabetes, cancer people/sufferes is good for T&T....cos freedom comes with responsibility to pre-empt youse and others' response.

Don't you think it would have been better to educate the population on what to eat and why... adding taxes to food not going to make people stop eating. They would sacrifice the healthy food now to get the KFC

The PM think we is all dumb fuks...

there is and has been education for some time. How many people seriously don't know fatty foods is bad and fibre is good? who cares, means more revenue for the state, this is the point.

One of the most fundamental freedoms we have is freedom to go to hell however we choose. NO Government should cite a tax or penalty to curb a citizens' right to do just that because it doesn't work. How many smokers give up because it is too expensive? How many drinkers? The most will happen is that they will look for cheaper alcohol/tobacco sources.

[Redman]

Tax evasion IS NOT a reduction in cost - THEY HAVE ALWAYS BEEN EVADING TAX - they don't know what it is to pay the proper taxes

Tighten up on tax collection and that increased operating cost is passed directly to the consumer

So don't enforce the law because people breaking the law...

For the third time ...do you have anything to support your POV beyond your emotional attachment to criminally inclined,poorly informed advantageous merchants of Newly VAT reduced items?

[Redman]

ah c d goodly PM say the plus side to adding vat to all the food stuff is so we could watch we diet.....

is he a dietician??? what the actual FCUK

cos ah PM ent supposed to have he citizens welfare in mind...

cos hundreds of thousands of obese, fat, diabetes, cancer people/sufferes is good for T&T....cos freedom comes with responsibility to pre-empt youse and others' response.

Don't you think it would have been better to educate the population on what to eat and why... adding taxes to food not going to make people stop eating. They would sacrifice the healthy food now to get the KFC

The PM think we is all dumb fuks...

there is and has been education for some time. How many people seriously don't know fatty foods is bad and fibre is good? who cares, means more revenue for the state, this is the point.

One of the most fundamental freedoms we have is freedom to go to hell however we choose. NO Government should cite a tax or penalty to curb a citizens' right to do just that because it doesn't work. How many smokers give up because it is too expensive? How many drinkers? The most will happen is that they will look for cheaper alcohol/tobacco sources.

Please link where the govt/pm stated that the REASON for the changes in the VaT list is the health aspect...is as you indicated.

Every one is free to make their choices.

[De Dragon]

ah c d goodly PM say the plus side to adding vat to all the food stuff is so we could watch we diet.....

is he a dietician??? what the actual FCUK

cos ah PM ent supposed to have he citizens welfare in mind...

cos hundreds of thousands of obese, fat, diabetes, cancer people/sufferes is good for T&T....cos freedom comes with responsibility to pre-empt youse and others' response.

Don't you think it would have been better to educate the population on what to eat and why... adding taxes to food not going to make people stop eating. They would sacrifice the healthy food now to get the KFC

The PM think we is all dumb fuks...

there is and has been education for some time. How many people seriously don't know fatty foods is bad and fibre is good? who cares, means more revenue for the state, this is the point.

One of the most fundamental freedoms we have is freedom to go to hell however we choose. NO Government should cite a tax or penalty to curb a citizens' right to do just that because it doesn't work. How many smokers give up because it is too expensive? How many drinkers? The most will happen is that they will look for cheaper alcohol/tobacco sources.

Please link where the govt/pm stated that the REASON for the changes in the VaT list is the health aspect...is as you indicated.

Every one is free to make their choices.

Scarfman was quoted as saying that in one of the dailies IIRC.

[shake d livin wake d dead]

so he told people to watch their diets wrt to increase in food prices

so wrt to vat on books etc etc.........he go tell people watch wa allyuh read????

[bluesclues]

so he told people to watch their diets wrt to increase in food prices

so wrt to vat on books etc etc.........he go tell people watch wa allyuh read????

well said..

we have to excuse redman a lil bit. although he is well educated on the theory behind economic system design, the circles where he gained that education have obviously tainted his spectacles to a robotic form of governance rather than one that puts the wellbeing and quality of life of the people first.

somewhere along the line, while they are studying how the system is managed, they forget that the objective of the system is to maintain the people and not just maintain the system for maintaining it sake.

sometimes these folks speak of saving the economy like if they saving a drowning man. completely ignoring and forgetting how cold they are being towards the human resource it is meant to maintain. just like economies can do well internationally but the people within it suffering, economies can do not so well internationally but the people comfortable still.

i think we should remember that though the economy can be likened to a living organism. it isnt. and government should seek ways to ensure the local environment is favourable. and that means putting the people first.

but right now ill put forward a statement, that redman cant deny or refute in anyway...

'we are currently being punished through taxation because of the failed policies and monetary strategy of past and present government'


everyone was doing their wukk. the only people that wasnt doing their wukk was government. they failed to read the markets. they failed to read the economy. they failed to enact diversification measures when time was right for it. they failed to update themselves on technological advancement for greater efficiency in all sectors.

now $30 oil, and the government and the corporations that lobbied for those policies which led to this current situation. must still get their way while the population must just lean with it rock with it.

what next redman? manual population reduction to revive the economy? is that part of the pnm crime plan?

[Redman]

Present Govt....??

[bluesclues]

^PNM with short intermissions of UNC

[Redman]

But what you've stated is basic common sense...it's been said..by many here.

So having stated the obvious...what's your point?

[desifemlove]

ah c d goodly PM say the plus side to adding vat to all the food stuff is so we could watch we diet.....

is he a dietician??? what the actual FCUK

cos ah PM ent supposed to have he citizens welfare in mind...

cos hundreds of thousands of obese, fat, diabetes, cancer people/sufferes is good for T&T....cos freedom comes with responsibility to pre-empt youse and others' response.

Don't you think it would have been better to educate the population on what to eat and why... adding taxes to food not going to make people stop eating. They would sacrifice the healthy food now to get the KFC

The PM think we is all dumb fuks...

there is and has been education for some time. How many people seriously don't know fatty foods is bad and fibre is good? who cares, means more revenue for the state, this is the point.

One of the most fundamental freedoms we have is freedom to go to hell however we choose. NO Government should cite a tax or penalty to curb a citizens' right to do just that because it doesn't work. How many smokers give up because it is too expensive? How many drinkers? The most will happen is that they will look for cheaper alcohol/tobacco sources.

Freedom is moot. Why aren't people free to dump garbage in the street? As demand won't go down, then the state gets taxes to fund for the excess obesity and diabetes care....win-win.

[ingalook]

Tax evasion IS NOT a reduction in cost - THEY HAVE ALWAYS BEEN EVADING TAX - they don't know what it is to pay the proper taxes

Tighten up on tax collection and that increased operating cost is passed directly to the consumer

So don't enforce the law because people breaking tuhe law...

For the third time ...do you have anything to support your POV beyond your emotional attachment to criminally inclined,poorly informed advantageous merchants of Newly VAT reduced items?

Once again you playing dotish... What about the $400mil in revenue that went down the drain with no benefit to consumers when Kams dem zero rated all that foodstuff?

The projected loss of revenue for the reduction in VAT by 2.5% is 7.5 BILLION over 5 years!

For the fourth time, who benefits from this?

[pete]

Where you get that projected loss in revenue from? In the budget they estimated to GAIN $6Billion in VAT this year by reducing items that were zero rated.

[De Dragon]

ah c d goodly PM say the plus side to adding vat to all the food stuff is so we could watch we diet.....

is he a dietician??? what the actual FCUK

cos ah PM ent supposed to have he citizens welfare in mind...

cos hundreds of thousands of obese, fat, diabetes, cancer people/sufferes is good for T&T....cos freedom comes with responsibility to pre-empt youse and others' response.

Don't you think it would have been better to educate the population on what to eat and why... adding taxes to food not going to make people stop eating. They would sacrifice the healthy food now to get the KFC

The PM think we is all dumb fuks...

there is and has been education for some time. How many people seriously don't know fatty foods is bad and fibre is good? who cares, means more revenue for the state, this is the point.

One of the most fundamental freedoms we have is freedom to go to hell however we choose. NO Government should cite a tax or penalty to curb a citizens' right to do just that because it doesn't work. How many smokers give up because it is too expensive? How many drinkers? The most will happen is that they will look for cheaper alcohol/tobacco sources.

Freedom is moot. Why aren't people free to dump garbage in the street? As demand won't go down, then the state gets taxes to fund for the excess obesity and diabetes care....win-win.

Because that freedom infringes on other people's freedom So healthy people have to fund other people's poor lifestyle choices then?

[Redman]

One of the most fundamental freedoms we have is freedom to go to hell however we choose. NO Government should cite a tax or penalty to curb a citizens' right to do just that because it doesn't work. How many smokers give up because it is too expensive? How many drinkers? The most will happen is that they will look for cheaper alcohol/tobacco sources.

but these are addictive products....

The rationale for the changes is an over arching revamp of the SYSTEM....not to change consumer behavior...

[S_2NR]

What is the PNM's plan for the economy?

Tax. Tax every dam thing.

[desifemlove]

ah c d goodly PM say the plus side to adding vat to all the food stuff is so we could watch we diet.....

is he a dietician??? what the actual FCUK

cos ah PM ent supposed to have he citizens welfare in mind...

cos hundreds of thousands of obese, fat, diabetes, cancer people/sufferes is good for T&T....cos freedom comes with responsibility to pre-empt youse and others' response.

Don't you think it would have been better to educate the population on what to eat and why... adding taxes to food not going to make people stop eating. They would sacrifice the healthy food now to get the KFC

The PM think we is all dumb fuks...

there is and has been education for some time. How many people seriously don't know fatty foods is bad and fibre is good? who cares, means more revenue for the state, this is the point.

One of the most fundamental freedoms we have is freedom to go to hell however we choose. NO Government should cite a tax or penalty to curb a citizens' right to do just that because it doesn't work. How many smokers give up because it is too expensive? How many drinkers? The most will happen is that they will look for cheaper alcohol/tobacco sources.

Freedom is moot. Why aren't people free to dump garbage in the street? As demand won't go down, then the state gets taxes to fund for the excess obesity and diabetes care....win-win.

Because that freedom infringes on other people's freedom So healthy people have to fund other people's poor lifestyle choices then?

Cos it's a social cost....not just on health system, but taxes, economic productivity.

[EFFECTIC DESIGNS]

went down the road today to buy some baigan at the veggie stall a guy pass and full up he bag normal normal with cabbage etc. Then walk away without paying the owner of the shop say you you didn't pay for that. The man say brave brave "I hadda eat and my family hadda eat, unless you giving me a job, you have to give me what you have for me to survive"

Seriously can't believe how boldface people is in this place yes. The country still running normal and man already reach this level? I could only imagine when sheit really hit the fan yes.

[shogun]

ED, you are simply amazing.