Price of Doubles Increased

[EmilioA]

Not paying that $5 sorry

So I have a habit of comparing and converting $5TT to UK pounds or USD. To me, doubles price can go up to $24 or $30TT and I won't mind paying the price tag. I'm sitting here like "why are they complaining about paying .84 US cents for some scrumptiously loaded doubles? ." I would gladly take six of those with slight pepper AND tip the vendors for their efforts.

I really think TT citizens don't know how good they have it.

Lemme guess. You also being paid in USD or pounds ? I'm not.

[Richard Marshall]

Not paying that $5 sorry

So I have a habit of comparing and converting $5TT to UK pounds or USD. To me, doubles price can go up to $24 or $30TT and I won't mind paying the price tag. I'm sitting here like "why are they complaining about paying .84 US cents for some scrumptiously loaded doubles? ." I would gladly take six of those with slight pepper AND tip the vendors for their efforts.

I really think TT citizens don't know how good they have it.

I think you need to give up your life and live the life of a regular trini.

Anyway, on the topic, off the idiot, there are recipes out there. Weekend I'm gonna try to make it. And try to perfect it. Those vendors even if they buy wholesale to sell still making alot of $$$ at $4.

[mark2.0]

Still not buying... Who with meh!

[hong kong phooey]

me . I getting it at 2 dollars in Penal. why pay 5 dollars or even 4 dollars

[K74T]

Yet it still tasting like crap in Penal

[York]

For every $1M spent to build an apartment, the landlord would have paid $150,000 in VAT.

Some one earning $10k a month would pay $12500 in income tax. So the landlord would have paid the equivalent of 12 yrs of the earner of emolument income. A good apartment building would cost maybe $2-5M ...i think they deserve a Bligh. Plus they providing an essential need that the gov't not providing or renters who can't secure a mortgage. Otherwise where would those people live.

There are large corporations who cook their books to make like 1% net profit, yet they buying properties and constructing large buildings. They reclaim their Vat and don't pay tax anywhere close to what the owner of an apartment building would have paid.

For example a company does $200M in revenue and makes 1% net profit, that's $2M, so they pay 35% corporation tax $70,000. They guy who built an apartment building spent $2M and paid $300,000 in Vat. You see how the wealthy in capitalist system benefit by design. Every year they also depreciate their assets which benefit them in their balance sheet. Someone better versed in economics like Daran can explain in more detail.

[Slartibartfast]

1st of all, you can't compare income earners to landlords. TAX is structured so that those that have more pay more. You might as well say look KFC workers making 5k a month pay nothing and getting a free ride so you should to.

You business example is even more flawed. You neglected to specify where that next $199M went. Obviously it went into expenses (like building a new apartment building is an expense). So if you calculate it like that then they paid (199,000,000 x 0.15) $29,850,000 in VAT... every year as opposed to you $300,000 one time fee.

At the end of the day, once you earning you should be putting something back to help develop all of the public facilities that you use, once you are able to put (hence the no TAX under $6000). If we give landlords a free ride, what happens when they die and leave their properties to their children? We basically letting their children collect money from people that are working and contributing to society while they do nothing to contribute (not working or paying any form of tax).

[RASC]

1st of all, you can't compare income earners to landlords. TAX is structured so that those that have more pay more. You might as well say look KFC workers making 5k a month pay nothing and getting a free ride so you should to.

You business example is even more flawed. You neglected to specify where that next $199M went. Obviously it went into expenses (like building a new apartment building is an expense). So if you calculate it like that then they paid (199,000,000 x 0.15) $29,850,000 in VAT... every year as opposed to you $300,000 one time fee.

At the end of the day, once you earning you should be putting something back to help develop all of the public facilities that you use, once you are able to put (hence the no TAX under $6000). If we give landlords a free ride, what happens when they die and leave their properties to their children? We basically letting their children collect money from people that are working and contributing to society while they do nothing to contribute (not working or paying any form of tax).

These are the same individuals that say they cyar tek it in Trini anymore... Fly out and GLADLY pay property taxes in more developed countries.... Then complain and say " ...why Trini can't be more developed like here"

So freaking retarded. Who vex CAN LEAVE!

[Slartibartfast]

Ent! Some countries you go have property tax, road tax, car tax, gas tax, income tax, corporation tax etc. I don't think people realise that part of the function of taxes is to stop people from being selfish in a way that can be harmful.

Eg. TAX is larger on cars with bigger engines. Bigger engines tend to use more gas which is a non-renewable resource. It makes sense that squandering it should be discouraged.

That's why I think they should tier the land tax.
No tax for under 5000sf or 10,000 square feet.
$1.00 for every sq.ft above that up to 15,000 sq.ft
$2.00 for every sq.ft above that up to 20,000 sq.ft
$3.00 for every sq.ft above that up to 25,000 sq.ft and so on

This would discourage people from hoarding land for their kids and grand kids and inflating land prices to a point where a 10k emolument income earner can't afford it for his/her family that needs to be provided for at this moment. It will also discourage people from just putting up countless apartment buildings and expecting a free ride for them and their families until the end of time.

Btw, that is obviously for residential land. Agricultural land would be a different matter but should still be taxed to encourage people to actually use the land to grow crops instead of just getting hold of a cheap piece of land to hold on to for their grandkids.

For commercial, TAX their a$$ like they sh!tting golden eggs if they want to be in POS. Tax them lower rates if they are in other allocated commercial areas. Make them pay heavy annual fines if they built up in residential areas (I'm looking at you SBCS in Trincity) until they relocate. Again, little to no tax for businesses on smaller pieces of commercial land to encourage entrepreneurship.

[York]

1st of all, you can't compare income earners to landlords. Why not?TAX is structured so that those that have more pay more. You might as well say look KFC workers making 5k a month pay nothing and getting a free ride so you should to.So they should get a free ride?

You business example is even more flawed. You neglected to specify where that next $199M went. Obviously it went into expenses (like building a new apartment building is an expense). So if you calculate it like that then they paid (199,000,000 x 0.15) $29,850,000 in VAT... every year as opposed to you $300,000 one time fee.Companies reclaim their VAT because they charge VAT, the difference they pay to IR. so they they don't actually pay VAT, it is passed on to the consumer when they charge for their goods and services. They then own the properties and buildings basically tax free.

At the end of the day, once you earning you should be putting something back to help develop all of the public facilities that you use, once you are able to put (hence the no TAX under $6000). If we give landlords a free ride, what happens when they die and leave their properties to their children? they don't get a free ride. what if they finance their apartment building and have to pay back a big loan. The difference between rent collected and the monthly loan payment is their income, which is no large sum.We basically letting their children collect money from people that are working and contributing to society while they do nothing to contribute (not working or paying any form of tax).

Then institute an inheritance tax and if you inherit any property give it to the poor and destitute KFC employees to live in.

[EmilioA]

For every $1M spent to build an apartment, the landlord would have paid $150,000 in VAT.

Some one earning $10k a month would pay $12500 in income tax. So the landlord would have paid the equivalent of 12 yrs of the earner of emolument income.

Are you under the impression that salaried people dont pay VAT when they shop at the grocery or hardware ?

Salaried people paying VAT and Income Tax . Why landlords special to evade income tax ? They are tax cheats plain and simple.

Then institute an inheritance tax and if you inherit any property give it to the poor and destitute KFC employees to live in.

Inheritance Tax. Now that's an idea ! We go be just like them 1st world nations.


But really now we seeing why the Property Tax have to be implemented. Too many people, including people on this thread evading paying they Income Tax and living off of MY tax. Time for the free ride to end.

[York]

Ent! Some countries you go have property tax, road tax, car tax, gas tax, income tax, corporation tax etc. I don't think people realise that part of the function of taxes is to stop people from being selfish in a way that can be harmful.

Eg. TAX is larger on cars with bigger engines. Bigger engines tend to use more gas which is a non-renewable resource. It makes sense that squandering it should be discouraged.

That's why I think they should tier the land tax.
No tax for under 5000sf or 10,000 square feet.
$1.00 for every sq.ft above that up to 15,000 sq.ft
$2.00 for every sq.ft above that up to 20,000 sq.ft
$3.00 for every sq.ft above that up to 25,000 sq.ft and so on

This would discourage people from hoarding land for their kids and grand kids and inflating land prices to a point where a 10k emolument income earner can't afford it for his/her family that needs to be provided for at this moment. It will also discourage people from just putting up countless apartment buildings and expecting a free ride for them and their families until the end of time.

Btw, that is obviously for residential land. Agricultural land would be a different matter but should still be taxed to encourage people to actually use the land to grow crops instead of just getting hold of a cheap piece of land to hold on to for their grandkids.

For commercial, TAX their a$$ like they sh!tting golden eggs if they want to be in POS. Tax them lower rates if they are in other allocated commercial areas. Make them pay heavy annual fines if they built up in residential areas (I'm looking at you SBCS in Trincity) until they relocate. Again, little to no tax for businesses on smaller pieces of commercial land to encourage entrepreneurship.

if you tax everything, then you would want to set low prices and we would get like Venezuela where the cost of production is higher than the selling prices set, so no one produces and you have no products in the groceries...

Or we get like the first world countries where prices are over inflated for products and services. the cost of some houses in US, you could build 5-10 here. and we all get the raw materials from China at the same low price.

[Slartibartfast]

1. At that income, what they can give will barely be significant. It won't make the country better but it would make their lives much worse. Also, the discussion of low income earners is a multi faceted discussion that would take to long to go into here. There workers with low income because they are lazy and others that just lack opportunity for advancement.

2. Fair point. Forgot I saw that on tuner yesterday. So why don't you register a company and build your apartment building through that. I think that is the most fair way to do it. You won't have to pay your VAT up front but you will need to pay taxes every year.

3. As long as that income (just like any other income) is taxed then all is well and fine. Emolument income earners don't get a break from PAYE because they have a big loan like a mortgage out.

[Slartibartfast]

if you tax everything, then you would want to set low prices and we would get like Venezuela where the cost of production is higher than the selling prices set, so no one produces and you have no products in the groceries...

Or we get like the first world countries where prices are over inflated for products and services. the cost of some houses in US, you could build 5-10 here. and we all get the raw materials from China at the same low price.

I am not arguing to tax everything so your argument is invalid.

What I'm saying is that TAX has a lot of power to shape a society by encouraging and discouraging certain acts.

Ideally, all taxes should be circumstantially based on what best and worst for the society. This is he underlying principle of my argument if you need one to argue against. I am not saying "tax everything"

[desifemlove]

chicken n chips gone up no problem bread gone up no problem doubles gone up BIG problem we talking about not buying doubles but we buying d other 2 without talk only d rich will get richer no problem

As I said it's a beat up cause a lil injun raise prices.
Syrian selling their increased priced gyros and no beat up.

lool. everyting race, eh?

this is first price rise in what, 10 years?

if people doh like, doh buy, or choose vendors who still sell at $4.

T&T backward cos de people iz backward. nothing more than that....

[desifemlove]

chicken n chips gone up no problem bread gone up no problem doubles gone up BIG problem we talking about not buying doubles but we buying d other 2 without talk only d rich will get richer no problem

As I said it's a beat up cause a lil injun raise prices.
Syrian selling their increased priced gyros and no beat up.

lool. everyting race, eh?

this is first price rise in what, 10 years?

if people doh like, doh buy, or choose vendors who still sell at $4.

T&T backward cos de people iz backward. nothing more than that....

[1UZFE]

It wud be intresting to kno and State how much vendors raised their price to $5. I kno of 1 so far and dats the doubles vendor in Lange Park before bakery treatz.
Majority of vendors is still $4.

[bluesclues]

Ent! Some countries you go have property tax, road tax, car tax, gas tax, income tax, corporation tax etc. I don't think people realise that part of the function of taxes is to stop people from being selfish in a way that can be harmful.

Eg. TAX is larger on cars with bigger engines. Bigger engines tend to use more gas which is a non-renewable resource. It makes sense that squandering it should be discouraged.

That's why I think they should tier the land tax.
No tax for under 5000sf or 10,000 square feet.
$1.00 for every sq.ft above that up to 15,000 sq.ft
$2.00 for every sq.ft above that up to 20,000 sq.ft
$3.00 for every sq.ft above that up to 25,000 sq.ft and so on

This would discourage people from hoarding land for their kids and grand kids and inflating land prices to a point where a 10k emolument income earner can't afford it for his/her family that needs to be provided for at this moment. It will also discourage people from just putting up countless apartment buildings and expecting a free ride for them and their families until the end of time.

Btw, that is obviously for residential land. Agricultural land would be a different matter but should still be taxed to encourage people to actually use the land to grow crops instead of just getting hold of a cheap piece of land to hold on to for their grandkids.

For commercial, TAX their a$$ like they sh!tting golden eggs if they want to be in POS. Tax them lower rates if they are in other allocated commercial areas. Make them pay heavy annual fines if they built up in residential areas (I'm looking at you SBCS in Trincity) until they relocate. Again, little to no tax for businesses on smaller pieces of commercial land to encourage entrepreneurship.

theres something mostly workable in what you suggest here. just take out the targetted prejudicial bias pointed aspect and you could come with a clean set of legislation that will benefit the country's economy.

that said, i would have to say that we are in an extended land and real estate bubble. it must eventually pop or will be popped manually through taxation as you say, on hoarders, or by some other means. rent has probably the most significant impact on cost of living. if we could reduce the cost of the land we could reduce the cost of the rent landlords have to charge, leaving more money in the pockets of consumers to acquire savings or to spend frivolously. both being major benefits to economic stability.


i said what you said, just in a more politically persuasive way

[Dizzy28]

chicken n chips gone up no problem bread gone up no problem doubles gone up BIG problem we talking about not buying doubles but we buying d other 2 without talk only d rich will get richer no problem

As I said it's a beat up cause a lil injun raise prices.
Syrian selling their increased priced gyros and no beat up.

Went Hassan's Sunday....price still the same!!

[bluesclues]

if you tax everything, then you would want to set low prices and we would get like Venezuela where the cost of production is higher than the selling prices set, so no one produces and you have no products in the groceries...

Or we get like the first world countries where prices are over inflated for products and services. the cost of some houses in US, you could build 5-10 here. and we all get the raw materials from China at the same low price.

I am not arguing to tax everything so your argument is invalid.

What I'm saying is that TAX has a lot of power to shape a society by encouraging and discouraging certain acts.

Ideally, all taxes should be circumstantially based on what best and worst for the society. This is he underlying principle of my argument if you need one to argue against. I am not saying "tax everything"

aahhh i seeing where u coming from now. this really makes me feel like ive tapped into the pnm mentality and budgetting strategy.

what it looks like to me is literally what i thought i was exaggerating in a previous post. u rely on the tax method as the ONLY way of shapping society. it is ONE of the ways. stop using it in place for 90-99% of the solutions. look how Imbert gone and increase efficiency with overpass solutions, but seeming to totally disregard the benefit it would bring in faster turnaround to the GDP. and taxing to suit, with a notification, that more taxes are coming,

so baring this mind, people have to recognize now, that any and everything the people ask pnm to do for them, will result in a tax somewhere else on the entire population to recover the money. and there are both visible and invisible/hidden taxes. when they run out of visible ones, the invisible ones will come. that is when prices rise and ur salary stays the same. and that is more inflation, heading full throttle towards currency devaluation, from recession into depression.

efficiency can bring the same benefit as tax. a 20%-30% increase in efficiency is better than a whole new 15% tax added into the system. so to me this can only mean one thing. the pnm government has no faith in the ability or desire for the people to increase their individual efficiency even though theyve been given a tonne of extra room to maneuvre.

like someone say, instead of leavin home same time they will leave home 30 minutes later and still reach to work 15 minutes late. and the truck drivers will drive slower to do the same amount of deliveries instead of taking advantage and delivering more.

so now im getting the idea, that some focus needs to be put on educating the people about their role in the society as individuals and how what they do contributes and really makes a difference to the national economy. i think many still think that, 'i am just one person, if i make myself more productive it wont make much difference, just a drop in the bucket'. and almost everyone shares the same attitude. but they need to know, that just 1 or 2 extra reports pushed through per day is 60 extra cases pushed through per month, money changes hands faster. if 30% faster then you get 30% more money to play with at the end of each year. raw gdp growth.

even given that, i still believe a great benefit will be seen from building those overpasses from east to west and having free flowing traffic. and quite possibly a mildy lifted speed limit with enforced lane restrictions.

[desifemlove]

[quote="bluesclues"]ohho.. word. lol

but yeah i cooking home years now. hops now done here. breakfast and dinner for the next few days.


i bringing some margarine right now....

[S_2NR]

Not paying that $5 sorry

So I have a habit of comparing and converting $5TT to UK pounds or USD. To me, doubles price can go up to $24 or $30TT and I won't mind paying the price tag. I'm sitting here like "why are they complaining about paying .84 US cents for some scrumptiously loaded doubles? ." I would gladly take six of those with slight pepper AND tip the vendors for their efforts.

I really think TT citizens don't know how good they have it.

Go back to the kitchen with your pseudo economics

[EmilioA]

like someone say, instead of leavin home same time they will leave home 30 minutes later and still reach to work 15 minutes late. and the truck drivers will drive slower to do the same amount of deliveries instead of taking advantage and delivering more.

Very Bad Examples.

More sleep/home time means happier individuals . Happier individuals and more home time means better family life. I dont have to give my new extra time to my employer. I can keep it for myself.

Your employer pays you for hours on the job. He doesnt pay you for the 2 -4 hours you spending getting to and from work.

Secondly a slower truck driver mean less accidents on the road. Which is a good thing. Dont you agree ?

[EmilioA]

For every $1M spent to build an apartment, the landlord would have paid $150,000 in VAT.

Some one earning $10k a month would pay $12500 in income tax. So the landlord would have paid the equivalent of 12 yrs of the earner of emolument income.

Are you under the impression that salaried people dont pay VAT when they shop at the grocery or hardware ?

Salaried people paying VAT and Income Tax . Why landlords special to evade income tax ? They are tax cheats plain and simple.

Then institute an inheritance tax and if you inherit any property give it to the poor and destitute KFC employees to live in.

Inheritance Tax. Now that's an idea ! We go be just like them 1st world nations.


But really now we seeing why the Property Tax have to be implemented. Too many people, including people on this thread evading paying they Income Tax and living off of MY tax. Time for the free ride to end.

[Slartibartfast]

Again I'm only saying that TAX has a lot of power to shape things for the better if used effectively.

Using TAX alone to shape a society is not using it effectively at all. Funny enough, I still think that how they spend the TAX collected is still more important than how they collect it as that has even more power to shape things up.

Now here is the funny thing about efficiency. A lot of the time people don't care to go the extra mile to be more efficient because they don't reap the benefits of it. Their employer does. This is why the self employed work so much harder. Because the get to enjoy the fruits of their labour. This is also why I'm all for initiatives that promote self employment.

A quick example. Look at the average draughtsman. 30 years ago a highly trained draughtsman would have probably taken a month to do the drawings for a decent sized building and draughtsmen used to get paid decent enough. I'm guessing at least the equivalent spending power of $10,000/month today. I see junior draughtsmen now do 2 to 3 times that amount and senior draughtsmen doing about 2 buildings a week. The company they work for charges the same percentage per job but draughtsmen now aren't paid all that (about $5,000 for a junior draghtsman and about $15,000 for one with lots of years experience). The company pockets all of the benefits of increased efficiency. On top of that, employees now are treated as disposable. 1 and 2 year contracts have become the norm, even for middle aged people with a master's degree and over 10 years experience. Now what motivation would you have to increase efficiency if you know all of your efforts only benefit an employer that would let you go at the drop of a hat? A lot of these companies that operate 8-4/5 don't even let employees leave early or come a little later if they have completed their work. Even if you finish the work you have to make up the hours. For what? If you don't finish the work they expect you to work overtime for free because all of a sudden they paying you to do a job and not for your time.

I believe what we really need is addition to putting things in place to discourage certain behaviors (Taxes) we need to put things in place encourage certain behaviors as well. Employees get a small commission on top of their salary. Don't make task based jobs based on fixed hours. More permanent positions based on annual reviews. That way once they working they know their job sure and at the same time they can't get lazy and rock bike and ride it out till retirement.

The thing is, companies are greedy by nature and will take whatever they can in the name of increasing their profitability. Every company wants higher profits every year. No company would say, you know what 50% NET ROI is good enough. I'll spend the rest in raising the quality of my services and giving back to the employees.

Until you get ethical business practices (ha!) or companies investing in their employees you can expect to always have lazy employees. That's why I love and always support small local business owned and operated by honest individuals. I believe they are the ones that deserve the most support.

[Slartibartfast]

BTW.... margarine is for kiss hops. Do yuh home made bread some justice and use the good stuff... butter

[Daran]

Slartibartfast, you marxist much?

I agree in theory. Which is why I am very much against taxes for SME. People like Emilio and others claiming doubles vendors (and by extension all Sole Trader type small businesses) should be paying income tax, will never work in reality. Too easy to fake, and a deterrent to going out on your own. Also, do not forget if you earn less than $6000 a month now, you aint paying no income tax either. If you want to tax self employed persons, raise that figure to 12K (above that u taxed 25%) if you insist on taxing them.

Entrepreneurial activity should always STRONGLY encouraged. It is the best way to keep larger corporations on their those and creates good economic activity.

Which is why PNM should have left VAT and Income Tax alone and simply pass tax reductions to self employed and other SMEs.

Where I agree with Emilio is in landlords and many, many others evading tax. However, again we need to be careful doing any type of new taxation as it will have ripple effects on the economy (e.g. stores will up their prices due to increased rent). Anticipate this for when the real property tax is introduced.

Again, PNM should NOT have lowered VAT and Income Tax, when revenues are anticipated to be less in future. No one was complaining.

What is the shortfall from this and where do they plan to make it up?

[zoom rader]

Real funny, a lil injun food have Trinidad busy talking about nothing.

Jah bless black pudding

[EFFECTIC DESIGNS]

Again, PNM should NOT have lowered VAT and Income Tax, when revenues are anticipated to be less in future. No one was complaining.

What is the shortfall from this and where do they plan to make it up?

They already made up for.

Fuel Subsidy, So there is nothing to be concerned about

[Slartibartfast]

Slartibartfast, you marxist much?

I agree in theory. Which is why I am very much against taxes for SME. People like Emilio and others claiming doubles vendors (and by extension all Sole Trader type small businesses) should be paying income tax, will never work in reality. Too easy to fake, and a deterrent to going out on your own. Also, do not forget if you earn less than $6000 a month now, you aint paying no income tax either. If you want to tax self employed persons, raise that figure to 12K (above that u taxed 25%) if you insist on taxing them.

Entrepreneurial activity should always STRONGLY encouraged. It is the best way to keep larger corporations on their those and creates good economic activity.

Which is why PNM should have left VAT and Income Tax alone and simply pass tax reductions to self employed and other SMEs.

Where I agree with Emilio is in landlords and many, many others evading tax. However, again we need to be careful doing any type of new taxation as it will have ripple effects on the economy (e.g. stores will up their prices due to increased rent). Anticipate this for when the real property tax is introduced.

Again, PNM should NOT have lowered VAT and Income Tax, when revenues are anticipated to be less in future. No one was complaining.

What is the shortfall from this and where do they plan to make it up?

TBH I'm not even sure what exactly a Maxist is. Didn't read up on it since I had to study it in school about a decade ago. However, I basically agree with what you are saying.

I highly agree that entrepreneurial activity should always be strongly encouraged and will go far enough to say focus should be placed on making it easier to startup and break even at the beginning. Hence a lot more leniency for smaller businesses than larger ones.

I also highly agree that one should be extremely careful when changing tax requirements due to the ripple effect that you mentioned.

I never considered just dropping or greatly reducing the Tax requirements for SME's but it seems like something in line with promoting individual startups. The only thing that irks me is doing that for businesses that generate a passive income. Doubles men still coming out and providing a tasty fattening meal that we all enjoy (except Bluesclues cuz he is die hard PNM). Landlords just sitting back and not contributing at all once they done build their building. EHowever, I think it would be fair if they set it up under a business to bypass VAT and then use all of the rent to pay and income for themselves and pay PAYE on that. That way they don't get taxed on the expense of repaying the loan either and property taxes.

The key is to find a way to give startups more leniency to make them competitive to the bigger businesses. Land ownership is a different case, we need to find a way to make it easier for people to own a home instead of being perpetual renters.