Duane was dead wrong!Hybrid Cars cheaper to maintain!

[b5er]

I never targeted the Prius.

Appreciate the correction

My answer is still "no" for the same reasons I gave in the article. 3-4 yrs is fine. Your car was ~4 to 4.5 yrs when you bought it, so that is not extreme.

Actually it was 5.2 years old, ( Manufactured in Jan 2008, I bought it in March 2013).
The car is now now 7 years old, and running just fine with no battery issues.

[PariaMan]

The point is there should be no differentiation between other foreign used and hybrids in terms of six years or newer. If anything older hybrids out performs older other foreign used. That i think is the big mistake this government is making.

[Allergic2BunnyEars]

Ahhhh, ok.

Good point.

Also my figures are with premium. The figures are impressive compared to other cars but the point is moot due to the price disparity between premium and super. Men can be getting 450 per tank and just fill up twice to get the 900+ I get on a tank and still come out cheaper than me cuz super is so cheap.

1100 km per tank is doing what ratio of highway to city/congested miles?

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

I never targeted the Prius.

Appreciate the correction

My answer is still "no" for the same reasons I gave in the article. 3-4 yrs is fine. Your car was ~4 to 4.5 yrs when you bought it, so that is not extreme.

Actually it was 5.2 years old, ( Manufactured in Jan 2008, I bought it in March 2013).
The car is now now 7 years old, and running just fine with no battery issues.

thats great! But you seem to be meticulous and very knowledgeable about the car, you also got a good car, a mass of 6yr old hybrids or electrics on the road in questionable conditions given to an unwary public is my concern.

[PariaMan]

Yes but the man just did standard maintenance on any FU car.

He worked only on the none hybrid parts of the car.

None of it was specific to a Hybrid car.

Further this was just preventative maintenance.

Again there is no evidence at all to suggest that there will be any more maintenance requirements on a Hybrid car

thats great! But you seem to be meticulous and very knowledgeable about the car, you also got a good car, a mass of 6yr old hybrids or electrics on the road in questionable conditions given to an unwary public is my concern.

What empirical data are you referencing to hold that concern. Has this been done in some part of the world and lead to a lot of problems?

Have certain markets turned there backs on FU hybrids?

Or are you just going on gut feelings?

Do you know of people who bought 6 year or newer Hybrids and had lots of problems?

Have you located people on internet forums who have been having problems with their Hybrids?

Again what is the source of your concern besides gut feelings?

[Allergic2BunnyEars]

[j.o.e]

Hybrids worst case have the same or less maintenance as a similar engine car ...end of story. The only added worry is battery failure and that really isn't a short term issue...yall could stop beating up Duane now

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

Yes but the man just did standard maintenance on any FU car.

He worked only on the none hybrid parts of the car.

None of it was specific to a Hybrid car.

Further this was just preventative maintenance.

Again there is no evidence at all to suggest that there will be any more maintenance requirements on a Hybrid car

thats great! But you seem to be meticulous and very knowledgeable about the car, you also got a good car, a mass of 6yr old hybrids or electrics on the road in questionable conditions given to an unwary public is my concern.

What empirical data are you referencing to hold that concern. Has this been done in some part of the world and lead to a lot of problems?

Have certain markets turned there backs on FU hybrids?

Or are you just going on gut feelings?

Do you know of people who bought 6 year or newer Hybrids and had lots of problems?

Have you located people on internet forums who have been having problems with their Hybrids?

Again what is the source of your concern besides gut feelings?

I'm not sure at which point you will realise it is my own concern. A concern I still hold despite your rantings.

[PariaMan]

OK J.O.E.

I going with you there.

So I done!

No need for POP CORN bunny!

[b5er]

Yeah, I agree to let this die a natural death, but let me just point out.

Prius battery can be thought of as an Engine in some aspects.

In non-hybrid car, when you stomp on the pedal to get going at a green light, the engine takes a real beating. Hence an aggressive driver will shorten the lifespan of the engine.

Same holds true for a Prius Battery. When you stomp on the accelerator, the battery has to deliver a sudden high current draw, and over time, will shorten the lifespan of the battery as well.

Even if the Battery fails, allot has to go wrong for all cells to go bad at the same time. The battery consist of about 28 individual 7.2V modules wired in series. The cars ECU or Brain, monitors each module and generates a "fail" if one behaves "out of spec". That single module can be replaced and for a menial cost (approx.TT$400 + labor), Its extremely rear for an entire battery pack to be bad.

I understand Duane's concern, which has been discussed on many other forums by many people more enlightened than ourselves. These concerns, while valid, have all been put to rest by owners and DIY'ers like myself.

I think the tax exemption given to 2 year old hybrids should be extended to 5 years.
That will put the Hybrid cars in easy reach of the lower middle class and hence "backstreet" mechanics will get their hands wet with the technology.
Keeping the hybrid in the realm of the upper middle class will not help the masses to understand and accept this great leap we need to make.

If anyone has questions and concerns about hybrid cars, you can PM me and I'll try to assist as much as I can. I have access to a Launch x431 scanner and Toyota's TechStream diagnostic tools.

[b5er]

Ahhhh, ok.

Good point.

Also my figures are with premium. The figures are impressive compared to other cars but the point is moot due to the price disparity between premium and super. Men can be getting 450 per tank and just fill up twice to get the 900+ I get on a tank and still come out cheaper than me cuz super is so cheap.

1100 km per tank is doing what ratio of highway to city/congested miles?

I would say mostly 50% by 50 %, but note that highway to us in Trini is city driving in the US/Canada
so I don't give that division much consideration in a Island setting like Trini.

[Allergic2BunnyEars]

Nah highway is highway. The figures match up with highway figures abroad. Once the traffic is consistently flowing above 80 kph I consider that highway. If I bounce up traffic anywhere be it on the highway or in the city proper my figures match up with city figures abroad.

[PariaMan]

Yeah, I agree to let this die a natural death, but let me just point out.

Prius battery can be thought of as an Engine in some aspects.

In non-hybrid car, when you stomp on the pedal to get going at a green light, the engine takes a real beating. Hence an aggressive driver will shorten the lifespan of the engine.

Same holds true for a Prius Battery. When you stomp on the accelerator, the battery has to deliver a sudden high current draw, and over time, will shorten the lifespan of the battery as well.

Even if the Battery fails, allot has to go wrong for all cells to go bad at the same time. The battery consist of about 28 individual 7.2V modules wired in series. The cars ECU or Brain, monitors each module and generates a "fail" if one behaves "out of spec". That single module can be replaced and for a menial cost (approx.TT$400 + labor), Its extremely rear for an entire battery pack to be bad.

I understand Duane's concern, which has been discussed on many other forums by many people more enlightened than ourselves. These concerns, while valid, have all been put to rest by owners and DIY'ers like myself.

I think the tax exemption given to 2 year old hybrids should be extended to 5 years.
That will put the Hybrid cars in easy reach of the lower middle class and hence "backstreet" mechanics will get their hands wet with the technology.
Keeping the hybrid in the realm of the upper middle class will not help the masses to understand and accept this great leap we need to make.

If anyone has questions and concerns about hybrid cars, you can PM me and I'll try to assist as much as I can. I have access to a Launch x431 scanner and Toyota's TechStream diagnostic tools.

I have a hilux and would not mind getting a Prius even with out the tax break just to make the trip to work and errands around town. Most likely later in the year.

While country runs for the van.

I will be checking you!

[Slartibartfast]

I agree with b5er but I don't think it should be raised by 5 years all at once. They could just that any hybrid car that is both less than six years old and manufactured after 2013 will be tax exempt.

You will end up have a lot of 2013 model hybrid cars on the road over the next four years to start things off which would make it the initial need for unique hybrid specific parts and skills a lot smaller. This would make it easier for mechanics and parts sellers alike to "get their hands wet" with the technology.

Then once 2019 reach hybrid cars that are 6 years old would be the norm. If it works good they can do the same thing again to increase the tax break to 10 years and allow those older cars to be registered.

[PariaMan]

Disagree completely with above. Because of the following reasons

1.The most popular Hybrid is the Prius and this has not changed (except cosmetic) since 2009.

2. Even the older cars require little maintenance on the Hybrid side.

3. Mechanics can already handle maintenance on the non hybrid side

4. Mechanics do not take four years to come up to scratch when faced with new technology (I bought a fuel injected in 1999 and initially there was hardly anyone to trouble shoot it but this changed very quickly.

5. With the advent of the information super highway . Information is readily available.


When we are making policies we must look at the real world scientifically and logically before we make decisions.

[Slartibartfast]

Good valid points raised. Here is why I disagree with you

1. What about other model cars (Although this isn't a big deal as I see most people getting priuses anyway). Also, body parts would be a lot easier to get if one year model is popular. This would give users a better experience having to deal with repairing the car as they would have less running around.

4. Hybrids can't be compared to fuel injected cars. When fuel injected cars start being offered by the dealerships? What percentage of cars bought today are fuel injected? See the difference. Fuel injection was an advancement in technology that all mechanics had to get familiar with or potentially lose almost all future business. Hybrid cars are just a different type of car as opposed to an advancement in technology. I believe that you will have hybrid car mechanics just like you have euro car mechanics and the hybrid car mechs will charge unsuspecting customers a premium to repair their car because let's be real.... we live in Trinidad.

So some mechs may not care to put out the extra effort to get familiar with a type of car that they won't see very often.

5. Agree but most don't have the time to look up how to repair everything in their car (i.e. most women)

Now what I proposed tacked all of this while allowing legislation to be changed only once so that 6 years from now part of the legislation will just become obsolete and won't need to be changed again.

Anyway, take everything I say with a pinch of salt cuz I know nothing about hybrids and just speculating. At the end of the day I won't be one of the people buying a hybrid until hybrids are popular which would not be for a few years anyway so my points could be biased since I would not be affected.

[b5er]

Diesel Hybrid
The Mercedes-Benz E 300 BlueTEC HYBRID has a 80 liters diesel tank
Its 204 horsepower four-cylinder diesel engine, combined with a 27 horsepower electric motor, accelerates the sedan from a standing start to 100 km/h (62 mph) in 7.1 seconds. Gets 61 MPG.

http://www.hybridcars.com/61-mpg-run-fo ... tec-hybrid

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

When we are making policies we must look at the real world scientifically and logically before we make decisions.

Yes! This is why I suggest you stop fixating over the Prius as if it's the only hybrid out there.

[PariaMan]

Pallos i done. Lock the thread . for me hybrid is just another car that uses two instead of one battery . but the government wants CNG and only very new hybrids on the road thus keeping it out of the hands of those who will most require it.

Do not see the sense in that .

If that's your opinion to so be it

Hopefully as the price of oil sinks and the calls for the removal of the fuel subsidy the government wakes up and put hybrids in the hands of people who needs it the most

So as you said your opinion is just opinion

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

^ you done so lock the thread?

Anyway i agree on removing the subsidy, bring in the hybrids and electrics but please don't put old ones in people's hands.

Again, that is just my opinion. When the newspaper calls you to ask you for yours I hope you give it to them too

[kamakazi]

Searches will show that the Honda civic hybrid was problematic. ... and I did see one on our roads recently

[DVSTT]

When we are making policies we must look at the real world scientifically and logically before we make decisions.

Yes! This is why I suggest you stop fixating over the Prius as if it's the only hybrid out there.

It's work noting that the VW Polo blue motion gets 70+ mpg and uses diesel.

[RBphoto]

When the newspaper calls you to ask you for yours I hope you give it to them too

Plax.......Ploi...Bodow!!!!

[PariaMan]

Hybrids worst case have the same or less maintenance as a similar engine car ...end of story. The only added worry is battery failure and that really isn't a short term issue...yall could stop beating up Duane now

X 10000

So I just stopping beating up on Duane! Taking J.O.E. advice.

I am not above taking advice or logic from someone!

[K74T]

[*KRONIK*]

^^^

Coming to an Allen's near you??

[Knight Rider]

Mighty Sparrow Simpson The Funeral Agency Man: http://youtu.be/yiws4RGBUDA

[supercharged turbo]

[url]Driving the Toyota Mirai, the most futuristic car you can buy
By Steve Siler
January 15, 2015 10:27 AM
Motoramic

2016 Toyota Mirai
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View gallery
2016 Toyota Mirai
Go ahead. Call it ugly. Toyota doesn’t care.

People called the Prius ugly, too, when it was first launched (still do, actually), and it went on to become one of America’s best-selling cars. With the Prius, Toyota knew it had a game-changing technology on its hands, and to make it noticeable to its customers — who didn’t tend to pay much attention to cars, even when 50 mpg fuel economy was on the spec chart — Toyota had to make it noticeable-looking. People noticed. Next thing we knew, the Prius’ doorstop-chic styling became a point of pride. Toyota took a risk on ugly, and it paid off.

Toyota is attempting to perform the same trick with the 2016 Mirai. Only now, it’s working with hydrogen, not hybrids. We explicated the reasons for the Mirai’s various styling elements when the Mirai was introduced last year at the Los Angeles Auto Show, so we won’t bother repeating ourselves, but even after spending time with it, we’re not sure we’ll ever find it anything but jarring. Time will tell if Toyota can do the same trick with the Mirai that it pulled off with the Prius, but Toyota is banking on it, and banking even bigger on the technology and infrastructure becoming the next revolution in driving.


2016 Toyota Mirai
2016 Toyota Mirai
At this point, not many people know how fuel cells work, and since there aren’t many moving parts — no cylinders, pistons, crankshafts, etc. — understanding the process seems like a chemistry test. But in a nutshell, here’s how it works:
In a fuel cell, electricity is produced from a reaction between hydrogen and air. First, hydrogen atoms are compressed and stored in high-pressure tanks, two of which are present in the Mirai, together holding about 11 pounds of hydrogen at 10,000 psi. The hydrogen atoms are sent through a platinum membrane that separates the electrons from the protons. Those electrons produce an electric current that powers an electric motor-generator capable of 151 hp and 247 lb-ft of torque. The newly liberated hydrogen protons are introduced to oxygen in the air on the other side of the membrane, which in turn creates water — about a half-cup per mile, says Toyota — which exits the tailpipe. And yes, it's drinkable.

To reduce costs, Toyota had to make the fuel-cell compatible with its existing hybrid system and the Prius’ nickel-metal hydride battery, so Toyota fitted a four-phase boost converter, bringing voltage to 650V. As with the Prius, this is used primarily to assist during acceleration and capture regenerative braking energy.

On our brief first drive opportunity in Newport Beach, Calif., we found that, for all of its newfangled technology and precious metal, the Murai drives no differently than a normal electric car: It feels synthesized and utterly anticlimactic. Acceleration starts out brisk, but wanes as highway speeds approach. Based on a few dozen short bursts of acceleration and short stint on the parking lot also known as the 405 freeway, Toyota’s claim that the Mirai can hit 60 mph in nine seconds flat is entirely believable, though we’ll have to take Toyota’s word that it can eventually touch 111 mph as we never saw more than 75 mph. All the while, the powertrain is utterly silent. This, in turn, makes other sounds such as tire noise, climate control operation, and coffee-slurping passengers seem even louder.

Like battery electrics, fuel cell vehicles are heavy, and the Mirai’s hefty 4,079 lbs. is nearly 600 pounds more than the similarly sized Camry hybrid — despite using carbon fiber for the storage tanks. To its credit, the densest parts are situated low and spread out within the vehicle's structure, helping to keep the Mirai’s body neutral in corners. Road feel, however, is virtually non-existent, so numbly tuned are the chassis and steering. On the other hand, the ride smoothness so velvety that it could be equally suited to the Lexus brand (and don’t think Toyota hasn’t thought of that already). Also praiseworthy are the Mirai’s brakes, which feel relatively natural, even in battery priority mode, thanks to the regenerative energy recapture system that doesn’t jerk the car down too aggressively before you actually step on the pedal.

While there are no MPGe numbers available yet — remember, we’re talking about kilograms of hydrogen, not gallons of gasoline — the Mirai promises to be comparatively efficient with its hydrogen atoms, offering more range than the recently released Hyundai Tucson fuel cell (300 miles versus 265 for the Tucson) despite having lower tank capacity (5.0 kg of hydrogen versus the Tucson’s 5.64 kg). Furthermore, while filling the Tucson’s capacity tanks takes about 10 minutes, Toyota claims that process will only cost five minutes of the Mirai driver’s lives, alas, which is comparable filling up a gas-powered car’s tank. And having performed the task many times with several different fuel cell vehicles during the last few years, I can attest that the process is far less messy.


2016 Toyota Mirai
2016 Toyota Mirai
In an effort to make the interior as futuristic as the exterior, the Mirai’s dashboard is highly expressive and unusual, with gauges located near the base of the windshield and secondary controls arranged on intersecting planes swooshing about the cabin. Many controls are capacitive touch-style on sleek black surfaces, which is good or bad, depending on your tolerance for fingerprints.
The only state in which the Mirai will be sold initially is California, with Toyota expecting most buyers to opt for a $499/month lease rather than paying the $57,500 before $13,000 in state and federal incentives. At this point, the number of hydrogen filling stations in California remains in the single digits, and sales of the 700 cars Toyota plans to import this year will be limited to customers who live near them. New state funding should help triple that number by the end of 2015, however, with another 28 appearing in 2016. Toyota has pledged to help maintain 19 of them, and hopes that other automakers will do so, too, in order to accelerate the infrastructural development.

Toyota says that for most customers to be within a six-minute drive of a refueling station, it would only take 68 refueling stations strategically located in the Bay area and the Los Angeles/San Diego corridor to adequately serve a population of 10,000 fuel cell vehicles. The next market for Mirai is the New Jersey-Connecticut corridor, where another 12 stations will appear, also partially supported by Toyota along with energy supplier Air Liquide.

Yes, the Mirai is ugly. And while no one at Toyota is claiming it is beautiful, either, they do believe, wholeheartedly, that the Mirai will help usher in the hydrogen age. No one said that process was going to be pretty.[/url]

[DJ Q]

Ahhhh, ok.

Good point.

Also my figures are with premium. The figures are impressive compared to other cars but the point is moot due to the price disparity between premium and super. Men can be getting 450 per tank and just fill up twice to get the 900+ I get on a tank and still come out cheaper than me cuz super is so cheap.

1100 km per tank is doing what ratio of highway to city/congested miles?

I would say mostly 50% by 50 %, but note that highway to us in Trini is city driving in the US/Canada
so I don't give that division much consideration in a Island setting like Trini.

I have a question about hybrids... since the engine isn't running all the time, how do you know when to change the oil?
8000KM could mean 4000 on the engine alone...

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

I have a question about hybrids... since the engine isn't running all the time, how do you know when to change the oil?
8000KM could mean 4000 on the engine alone...

refer to the service manual

Start-stop technology can put higher stress on engine parts on each re-start.
Based on the setup of each car the manufacturer will recommend which is the proper oil to use and how often changes should be made.

You can also check here
http://lubematch.shell.com/tt/en_US/equ ... honda_(jpn)/hybrid_daa_fd3_1_3l_69kw_civic_hybrid_EFt8Piswc

Hybrid DAA-FD3 1.3L 69kW (Civic Hybrid)
SN 0W-20

Oil Change Intervals

Engine (LDA)
Km Max10000
Months Max12

Automatic Transmission (CVT)
Km Max40000