The Religion Discussion

[crazybalhead]

two half ripe julie mango is the key to heaven, st. paul is a julie mango man. DO NOT take the starch mango chain up....the devil wants you to show up with starch and look like a dunce.

[toyo682]

So since this thread originally started as your best encounter with God, I will put down the theology for now. Since people like to reason so much, perhaps some of you can give me some reasonable explanations as to some of the things I have learned that have strengthened my belief in Jesus not Christianity per say.

My uncle who happens to be a minister/preacher had a friend who was in the hospital terminally ill with cancer. One day while driving down the road my uncle felt moved my the Spirit of God to go and pray for his friend and tell him that God said he would raise him up in 7 days. On reaching his friends room at the hospital, two doctors were coming out of the room. As he entered the room his friend blurted out you are too late those two men you just saw leaving were my doctors and they just told me that there is nothing more they can do for me it will only be a matter of weeks before I die. My uncle replied to him by saying that God sent him there to pray for Him and said He would heal him in seven days. They prayed and my uncle left. On the seventh day his friend was discharged from the hospital without any trace of cancer, it has now since been years and this same friend is now a member of his board and is cancer free. Oh, this was in Canada so the chances of the doctors misdiagnosing him I would say is a lot less. The kicker it was done in the name of Jesus. "They shall lay hands on the sick and they shall recover."

This same uncle while on a missions trip, prayed for a witch doctor in a town that they had gone to who was dying and none of his magic or gods helped him. He told my uncle if his Jesus would heal him, not only would he follow Jesus but the whole village. Guess what the next day the whole village was serving Jesus, care to guess why?

Another friend of mine prayed for a woman who had been sick for 16 years. She would bleed all the time and the doctors could not figure out what was wrong with her or could stop the bleeding. She visited, doctors, pundits, obeah-men etc. Lots of money spent to get better. Long story short, my friend prayed for her, get this in the name of Jesus. Bleeding stop, and now she is serving Christ, not only her but her family as well because when all else failed Jesus came through.

Enough about what Jesus has done through people close to me.

I have a friend who once had a nervous break down and was unable to sleep. He decided that he should take an all natural sleep aid to help him sleep at night. Unknown to him this supposed natural pill was laced illegally with a Benzodiazepine more addicting that Heroine. This resulted in him not being able to come off of the drug as he would have withdrawal signs, such as sensitiveness to light etc. He had gotten to the point where decreasing the drug by .1 mg would cause him to go into withdrawal. The doctor told him we would never be able to come off the drug and if he did he could not do it cold turkey because it would kill him. One day while in church I was lead to pray with him and break the spirit of addiction behind the drug use. As soon as I began to pray he began to go into demonic manifestations, screaming, yelling etc. That night was the last night he took the drug. Through the power of Jesus he did what doctors said was impossible for him to do.

After returning home from my studies one of my friends was having problems with her health that doctors could not figure out. In praying for her God revealed that her problem was not so much physical but spiritual. We all have heard of the thing called obeah or witchcraft. Needless to say after all the gifts that the obeah worker, who was supposed to be her friend had given her, was destroyed and the spirit of Kali (yes hindu god of death) was commanded to leave in the name of guess who, Jesus, all sickness gone. Also this person was having demonic attacks in the night that were real to the point where things were moving around the room, they have also been free from that in the name of Jesus.

I have prayed for many sick people who have been healed. Just last week I prayed for someone who was having pain in their back due to a fall with injury to their spine, by the end of the prayer meeting there was no pain.

Late last year we prayed for a girl that had cancer and was in the hospital. Two days later the doctors could not fine any trace of the cancer, which was verified by doctors in the States who were consulted for a second opinion. But since logical supersedes faith the doctor decided it was best to continue chemotherapy in increased doses (which is beyond me because they could not find anymore cancer) which destroyed her other organs and eventually took her life. She died of the side effects of Chemo not cancer.

Growing up I lived next-door to a Hindu temple and its pundit. One day he and several others tried to cast a demon out of a woman about half their size. Needless to say after she beat the hell out of them through the power of the demon, they gave up. I have done deliverance with people by myself, over the phone, where demons are cussing me out, but in the end I always won through Jesus. Jesus and I are often more than they (demons) can handle.

I have been around the church for a long time and I have seen and heard of many who have been delivered from demons, both in Trinidad and places like Guyana many who have come from a Hindu background (Not trying to offend anyone, just stating what I have seen and heard). The demons in them often identify themselves as the gods these people worship, when they speak through them.

This is why I serve Jesus. There are many more things I could talk about but this thread is already 80pg. Anyone care to explain how what science and men said was impossible, became possible through calling on the name of Jesus???

[nismotrinidappa]

the unbeleievers would say manning/ kamla/ darwin /science cause that

[16 cycles]

toyo682 - check your references with respect to other religions. It may come off as being ignorant of others especially when referring to other religions in such a sensitive topic.

[megadoc1]

amen toyo682

[toyo682]

Sorry once again as I stated in my post I did not wish to offend anyone. I was merely stating the facts of my experiences. I am not trying to pick on Hinduism or any other religions as of that matter.

[nismotrinidappa]

we know toyo...some ppl jus emo

[illumin@ti]

Sorry once again as I stated in my post I did not wish to offend anyone. I was merely stating the facts of my experiences. I am not trying to pick on Hinduism or any other religions as of that matter.

Dappa, this is what im talkin bout, a humble man, tellin his side of the story. This is of course minus the judgemental spittin fire and fire bun everything else eh. Why cant all 'religeous' folk be similar?

[bluefete]

Duane: There is a Pastor who is on Radio Trinidad on the 730 AM band (Yes, for you younger ones, we still have a radio station on the amplitude modulation frequency) at 5:00 a.m. in the morning. This pastor was openly using his radio programme to campaign for and on behalf of the PNM. He seems to have a vicious vendetta against the UNC going back many years.

Anyways, when the PNM lost the election, this Pastor started receiving calls from listeners who were upbraiding him about his campaigning. He had the nerve to tell some of these callers that "he hoped they will swallow their tongues".

You see why God intervened politically in our country. To open the eyes of people at all levels.

Mr. Manning was warned in 2005, even before he won the elections in 2007, that he was not listening to the people. He chose to ignore that warning.

God's timing and man's timing are very different. (Example, a man was talking to God and asked him " God, how much is $1 million to you?" God said it is like a penny. The man then asked "God, how long is 1 million years to you?" God said it is like a minute. So the man then asked "God can I have a penny?" And God said: "In a minute.")

5 years after the warning was given, Mr. Manning was removed.

[bluefete]

megadoc1 wrote:
jesus said no one will be given in marriage in heaven but they claim horny sex in heaven

Duane; I did not see this in the Qu'ran but it seems to be very popular amongst the jihadists. So, do jihadists who die in the cause really get to choose however many virgins they want in heaven? And does it only apply to jihadists?

Just asking.

[bluefete]

Toyo 682:

Thanks for your contribution. It is most welcomed and enlightening.

[sMASH]

oyyyyyyyyy,,, we have no proof to back that up, jus that it is a nice thing to see happen
we have no proof that it was not him,

next ting, two years from now the PP go the way of the empire in starwars and become even worse than manning! u would have to eat ur hat then, wouldn't u. praise god for the good he has allowed, and give thanks for the opportunity to see it

as i see it, it was good that unc lost office when ANR gave government to manning unjustly as he was not the incumbent. if this did not happen, unc would have continued down their perilous road of deceit, corruption, and possible dictatorship. this would have been fatal for that party, as their voter base actually thinks and would not have continued to vote for that. that stigNa would have remained, their members incarcerated eventually, that party dead. PNM would have gained power, prosecuted all and then some, and would remain in power for ever and ever.

this way, the pnm was given enough rope to hang them selves, enough power time has passed to allow them to become arrogant in their flagrance of authority.
this time also allowed for the unc to get rid of most of the selfish elements, cleaning up their act, so to speak, and be placed in a better position to be viewed by the public.

to me, for this result to happen, things were happening even before 2005.
but i not going to be arrogant and declare what i do not have proof of, i just gonna thank god for allowing something good to happen. imagine if they turn out worse than manning, what would u say then?

[megadoc1]

after toyo682's post where can we put posts like these ?

the idea of god is a fallacy..................lies told to fool the weak of mind into social conformity
the whole idea of god is based on either lies or man's inability to accept his own insignificance in this universe

only in the smallest lies category

[sMASH]

u could put it next to ur posts, in the "opinions" section. because, i have learned that every one entitled to their own beliefs, and entitled to NOT have the beliefs of others paraded continuously to them, especially when the others condemn them for something they have no proof of

because i could say that what toyo said was done to lure emotional people looking for love and a quick fix, to the dark side, away from god, by dangling small illusions of miracles to hook them. and then they start ascribing partners and siblings and progeny and incarnation to god

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

the spirit of Kali (yes hindu god of death) was commanded to leave in the name of guess who, Jesus, all sickness gone.

so toyo682, you believe that the Hindu Goddess Kali is just as real as Jesus?

[toyo682]

Yes I do believe that Kali is real, just as Jesus is real. However, I believe that there is only one true and living God, hence all others that set themselves up as god or a god are false.. From experience with intercession and praying for others, these gods are really in fact demon spirits deceiving people away from the true God. Hence the reason these gods submit to the Lordship of Christ and leave when they are called out. ( If there is many ways to the same god or same god different name then is god divided against himself?) There was one time I was praying for a lady and as I commanded the demon in her to name itself, it replied Buddha, Buddha left a short while after. In my experience demons do not tell you the truth, they are all liars. Many times they try to hide behind false names or deceive you into thinking they are gone by staying quiet. However, when a demon names itself, I ask if said name would stand as truth before Jehovah God, many times they say no. So I keep charging them in the name of Jesus until they give me their name and their legal right to be there. Once those two things are established they have to leave and cannot return, unless the person opens the door once more. So do I believe in more than one God absolutely not.

[bluefete]

Duane: Another answer to your question:

I'm glad my mother defied calls to abort me, reveals blind tenor Andrea Bocelli

By Simon Caldwell
Last updated at 8:47 AM on 9th June 2010

Opera star Andrea Bocelli has praised his mother for rejecting the advice of doctors to abort him.

The blind singer, who was diagnosed with congenital glaucoma as a baby, has revealed his mother Edi was warned he would be born with some disability.

He interrupted a show to recount a 'little story' of how a pregnant woman was admitted to hospital with appendicitis.

After being treated, the doctors suggested the woman should consider an abortion, the Italian singer revealed to his audience.

They had told her it was the 'best solution'.

'But the young brave wife decided not to abort, and the child was born,' he said. 'That woman was my mother, and I was the child.'

He added: 'Maybe I'm partisan, but I can say that it was the right choice.'

Bocelli, 51, does not explain why doctors recommended an abortion at a time when it was still illegal in Italy. The present law dates from 1978.

Nor does he describe the medical condition with which doctors suspected he might be afflicted.

Bocelli, who has sold 70million records worldwide, lost his vision completely at the age 12 after he was hit on the head during a game of football.

His major break came in 1993 when the president of Milan's Sugar Music record label heard him perform Nessun Dorma and invited him to record it.

The clip of 51-year-old Bocelli's tribute to his mother was placed on YouTube this week by an American pro-life group.



http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldne ... abled.html

[MG Man]

Sorry once again as I stated in my post I did not wish to offend anyone. I was merely stating the facts of my experiences. I am not trying to pick on Hinduism or any other religions as of that matter.

why is jesus so selective about whom he heals?
why do so many devoted christians suffering despite their prayers to him?
And please don't say anything abuot mysterious ways or maybe they are not as hood as I think they are, or that jesus is testing them etc etc etc
Seems to me miracles / healing / whatever is random.............for every one person your jesus has healed, there must be fifty million who remain suffering............is jesus lazy? does he take bribes? what's the dilly yo?

[MG Man]

There was one time I was praying for a lady and as I commanded the demon in her to name itself, it replied Buddha, Buddha left a short while after. In my experience demons do not tell you the truth, they are all liars. Many times they try to hide behind false names or deceive you into thinking they are gone by staying quiet.

so are you saying Bhudda was the demon in the woman, or was the demon a liar who falsely used the name of Bhudda to disguise its true identity?

[Sky]

nothing in teh bible is accurate
the great flood, for example, is adapted from a centuries earlier story about some dude who floated down the river in a localized flood. His boat was a round raft-like thing, popular transport at the time

Yuh see you ....

Actually there's some truth to this. Check out the mediterranean flooding the black. scientific evidence puts this flood at the same time with the whole ark drama.

Is there more than one God? The Creator, that is.

Nope, same dude. Yet you foolish mortals squabble over your path. I could reach Maracas through San Juan or I can reach through maraval. I'll use whichever route suits me and if someone uses the other route I have no problem with that. Ltz

[toyo682]

MG Man to answer your question about healing, there are a number of reasons for why a person is not healed. Now from what I have learned there are a number of factors that hinder healing in a person’s life. Probably one of the biggest hindrances to healing that many people don’t realize is unforgiveness. Not unforgiveness of God, but their own unforgiveness towards someone that has hurt them. The Bible has numerous passages that teach we are to forgive others, and I would say this is the number one cause.

Sometimes, I know you don’t want me to say it, but it could be a testing. Now we must understand that God does not make anyone sick to test them. If we consider the story of Job, we see firstly that God had a hedge of protection around Job and his family. Now as long as God’s protection was there Satan could not touch him. Now when Satan was standing before God, God asked him if he consider His servant Job. In other words God was saying to Satan, you see my servant Job what do you think about him. Satan’s reply was does Job serve you for nothing. You see only God knows the heart, Satan does not. God knew that Job’s love for him was genuine, and that Job was not just serving him for what he could get. God then removed his protection and Satan tested Job’s love for God. By the way Satan is the father of skepticism. Testing should end with victory unless you fail the test, Job refused to curse God or give up.

Many times it could be a matter of unbelief. Another thing we must consider is the legality with which the spirit realm works. I was praying for someone not to long ago, I had the person repent concerning a sin which we knew lead to a demonic strong hold in that person’s life. As the demon was revealed as it started to speak through the person, I commanded it to leave. The demon said he would not, because the person wanted him there and loves the sin that he offered. Now keep in mind that the person repented unfortunately it was with their mouth and not there heart. Sometimes people pray for healing with their mouth but they fail to believe in their heart.

Also in the church today sadly you don’t hear much about demons; in fact many Christians don’t believe that there can be demons in side of them. One of the biggest lies! In my experience most sicknesses are caused by demonic spirits. Many times these demons answer to the name of the sickness as deliverance is done. Now in case you tempted to think I am a man who sees a demon in everything I am not. But if you are praying for years for healing and nothing happens then you need to explore the possibility of it being demonic. Usually deliverance fixes the problem once the person is open to it. Unless the person sees need for deliverance, these demonic spirits have a right to be there on account of their disbelief. Many sicknesses are generation curse. For example your parents may have a particular sickness in that their parents or grandparents had and you may develop, it is what science calls hereditary diseases. Most times people can get freedom from this through deliverance if God does not heal them sovereignly

Another thing is the lack of power in the church, not a lack of power on the part of God. Many people who confess to be Christians do not have a relationship with Christ. They may not pray or read their Bible for days at a time. It comes down to this more prayer more power, little prayer little power. If you consider the life of Jesus or the apostles after Pentecost, they spent time in private prayer to God. When they began to minister, they never really prayed for anyone. They only spoke commands, be heal, eyes be open etc because to power of God was upon them. Peter’s shadow healed people while he walked by. So is healing not for today? Yes it is, but the apostles spend hours in prayer before going out to minister hence the great results they received. Today you can hardly get Christians to pray. The most poorly attended church meeting is the prayer meeting, showing me there is a lack of love for prayer.

MG Man long story short there are many reason people don’t receive healing, I am not one to say why because each case can be different and may have many dimensions to it. But the Bible is clear that it is God’s desire to heal people. The spirit realm works on a legality that many don’t understand; often we must simply meet the condition to receive. There are many more things but it will take a long time to explain. As for me I cannot say what is in a person’s heart or where they stand with God, but I will pray in faith that they be healed.

PS the demon's name was Buddha.

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

In my experience demons do not tell you the truth, they are all liars.

I see

when a demon names itself, I ask if said name would stand as truth before Jehovah God, many times they say no.

But then when they say "no" they are telling the truth, not so?

If there is many ways to the same god or same god different name then is god divided against himself?

you tell me, since you say you strongly believe in Jesus and Jesus is the son of God but also God.

I am just trying to make sense of what you are saying.

[MG Man]

you gicin me a hard tile, Kitty

[toyo682]

Duane let me try to explain a bit more. It is a clear fact that demons do not wish to release their grip on any individual’s life that they have a foothold in. They try to scheme their way into stay. Often times before or during deliverance a person would begin to experience pain in the stomach, back or arms etc. This is usually to have the deliverance stop on account of the person being in pain; all pain stops once deliverance is stopped. These demons try to stay quiet even in an attempt to make you think they are gone, they try any and every thing to stay including telling you a wrong name.

Now they can deceive me as toyo682, they can lie to me, but they cannot lie to God. When I ask them will this stand as truth before God, what I am say is that if you were to say this to God would he know it to be true since God knows all things, it does not make any sense to lie. Thus they either say yes or no, which is why, I said many times they say no not all the time. Now I cannot know if they are telling the truth, I really on God to establish that, I have no power to drive out demons it is the power of God working in a through me. I only avail myself to be used in the process of freedom. Point is it is God who brings freedom not me and they have to tell Him the truth. Once they are brought before God and His power they begin to be torment, some of the accounts in the Bible show us that, they want it to be over as soon as possible so eventually they will speak the truth thus releasing their power over the person and leaving.

What I do know is once truth is established they have to leave, often the signs of them leaving are coughing, sneezing, vomiting, passing gas, urinating, or in worst case the person craps themselves, but there are signs. However coughing and sneezing are the predominant means by which they leave. Also deliverance is nothing like what have seen in movies like the exorcist etc. Very rare will there be any strong signs of defiance mostly they name call and cuss at you.

Now I refuse to be classed as a religious fanatic. I have studied the Bible and have tested many of, if you dare to say theories to be true. Even in science we see this, when presented with a theory it is test to see if there is truth to it not to prove it wrong off the bat. If the theory proves then to be untrue then it is thus false. Problem with many people on this thread is that they are trying to disprove things before that have tested to see if there is any truth in it. Now I know some smart man going to ask me if I have tried many other religions. I have studied many religions and still continue to. In my experience as I indicated in my first post of this thread, I stated that when these other so called gods are brought before the Lordship of Christ they are revealed to be deceiving demon spirits. Should I then jump into the lion’s pit to see if it is really a lion when I can see it is and the signs say so? Thus far Christ proves to be true.

Bottom line is like many of you have stated time and time again we are free to believe what we want. However I believe that I have gone one step further in tell you why I believe what I believe not based on my logic or reason or what I have heard, but on the fact that I have tested my theories and in fact still continue to test those that I have not proven true which mind you is almost to zero now. Now with that said you and others here are welcome to share you experience with me. I have share mine concerning other gods. So if there is anyone who without lying or joking can say that their Pundit, Imam or priest has ever come up against a demon name Jesus please feel free to share this experience. I am most interested in knowing. Keep in mind many Christian intercessors have encountered demons that try to pretend to be Christ but of course when brought before the truth of the light of the true Christ their deception was revealed. So far I have heard only logic and theories, but I want to hear about your experience with these logical ideas and theories.

Remember Truth is absolute not relevant. If I walk to the edge of a building and jump off the truth and reality of gravity will kick in, which is the same for you. Keep in mind also what we are addressing are eternal consequences, eternal meaning never ending. So we better make sure we find the real truth. The problem with this many part theory is that it makes God deceptive. Okay say there are many parts to one god. How is it that I can come to Him through the revelation of Him as Jesus and in faith have my sins washed away, but the people in India have to throw their children in the river for the crocs to have their sins forgiven. How is that thus fair on the part of god since many try to reason the fairness of things so far in this thread? How about those who have to strap bombs on themselves or hijack a plane to enter into heaven? How about those on the thread mill of nirvana? How is it fair that I get to make it without doing these things when others have to? These simple questions along with many more and the fact of my experience with other gods shape my belief.

Also remember there are truths and lies even when it comes to eternity.

[Chimera]

Probably one of the biggest hindrances to healing that many people don’t realize is unforgiveness. Not unforgiveness of God, but their own unforgiveness towards someone that has hurt them. The Bible has numerous passages that teach we are to forgive others, and I would say this is the number one cause.
.

What of the newborn baby born with aids or some disability?
Who he/she suppose to forgive? Who hurt them?

[toyo682]

ABA Trading notice I said one of the reasons. Sometimes children pay for the sins of their parents. Often when the parents repent of their wrongs and turn in true repentance, their child is healed. If not soverignly by deliverance, which I said many people do not understand the truth behind. Some things God will do of his own grace others we need to exercise the authority God has given us. Now lets face fact the child did not born with Aids because they had sex with some Aids person, but their parents or parent may have certainly did. Thus the child is now paying for the sin of their parents. It is clear that smoking and drink and cause negative effects to the body often times damage is done to the reproductive organs. People who drink and smoke during or before pregnancy often times know that there is a risk of their child being deform. Does this stop them, of course not. Men have become lovers of themselves. Is God to be blamed, of course not, you choose to engage in these sins if I may say so, so you must face the consequences, sadly not only you but your family as well. Bottom line is as parents we allow and disallow things into our child's life both physically and spiritual.

So you may be thinking now well I have not done these things but my child end up that way. Sometimes we pay not only for the sins of our parents but grandparents and great grandparents often going back 4 generations of more. I do not know the life my great grandparents lived, sometimes the things we face are a result of their sins not ours. We can leave either generational curses or blessings for our family. Good news is if we meet the condition, which most people don't because of a lack of proper knowledge we can have freedom.

Sin has a consequence not only to us but to our family. Everyday, man fulfill the lust of the flesh and engage in premarital sex, leaving women to take care of children on their own. Did God strip you naked and drop you in bed together? Now we have a generation growing up without fathers. Is it God to blame, his words forbid it, sin is rebellion to the laws of God and just like breaking any law there is a consequence.

[megadoc1]

Duane let me try to explain a bit more. It is a clear fact that demons do not wish to release their grip on any individual’s life that they have a foothold in. They try to scheme their way into stay. Often times before or during deliverance a person would begin to experience pain in the stomach, back or arms etc. This is usually to have the deliverance stop on account of the person being in pain; all pain stops once deliverance is stopped. These demons try to stay quiet even in an attempt to make you think they are gone, they try any and every thing to stay including telling you a wrong name.

Now they can deceive me as toyo682, they can lie to me, but they cannot lie to God. When I ask them will this stand as truth before God, what I am say is that if you were to say this to God would he know it to be true since God knows all things, it does not make any sense to lie. Thus they either say yes or no, which is why, I said many times they say no not all the time. Now I cannot know if they are telling the truth, I really on God to establish that, I have no power to drive out demons it is the power of God working in a through me. I only avail myself to be used in the process of freedom. Point is it is God who brings freedom not me and they have to tell Him the truth. Once they are brought before God and His power they begin to be torment, some of the accounts in the Bible show us that, they want it to be over as soon as possible so eventually they will speak the truth thus releasing their power over the person and leaving.

What I do know is once truth is established they have to leave, often the signs of them leaving are coughing, sneezing, vomiting, passing gas, urinating, or in worst case the person craps themselves, but there are signs. However coughing and sneezing are the predominant means by which they leave. Also deliverance is nothing like what have seen in movies like the exorcist etc. Very rare will there be any strong signs of defiance mostly they name call and cuss at you.

Now I refuse to be classed as a religious fanatic. I have studied the Bible and have tested many of, if you dare to say theories to be true. Even in science we see this, when presented with a theory it is test to see if there is truth to it not to prove it wrong off the bat. If the theory proves then to be untrue then it is thus false. Problem with many people on this thread is that they are trying to disprove things before that have tested to see if there is any truth in it. Now I know some smart man going to ask me if I have tried many other religions. I have studied many religions and still continue to. In my experience as I indicated in my first post of this thread, I stated that when these other so called gods are brought before the Lordship of Christ they are revealed to be deceiving demon spirits. Should I then jump into the lion’s pit to see if it is really a lion when I can see it is and the signs say so? Thus far Christ proves to be true.

Bottom line is like many of you have stated time and time again we are free to believe what we want. However I believe that I have gone one step further in tell you why I believe what I believe not based on my logic or reason or what I have heard, but on the fact that I have tested my theories and in fact still continue to test those that I have not proven true which mind you is almost to zero now. Now with that said you and others here are welcome to share you experience with me. I have share mine concerning other gods. So if there is anyone who without lying or joking can say that their Pundit, Imam or priest has ever come up against a demon name Jesus please feel free to share this experience. I am most interested in knowing. Keep in mind many Christian intercessors have encountered demons that try to pretend to be Christ but of course when brought before the truth of the light of the true Christ their deception was revealed. So far I have heard only logic and theories, but I want to hear about your experience with these logical ideas and theories.

Remember Truth is absolute not relevant. If I walk to the edge of a building and jump off the truth and reality of gravity will kick in, which is the same for you. Keep in mind also what we are addressing are eternal consequences, eternal meaning never ending. So we better make sure we find the real truth. The problem with this many part theory is that it makes God deceptive. Okay say there are many parts to one god. How is it that I can come to Him through the revelation of Him as Jesus and in faith have my sins washed away, but the people in India have to throw their children in the river for the crocs to have their sins forgiven. How is that thus fair on the part of god since many try to reason the fairness of things so far in this thread? How about those who have to strap bombs on themselves or hijack a plane to enter into heaven? How about those on the thread mill of nirvana? How is it fair that I get to make it without doing these things when others have to? These simple questions along with many more and the fact of my experience with other gods shape my belief.

Also remember there are truths and lies even when it comes to eternity.

AMEN AGAIN

[illumin@ti]

ABA Trading notice I said one of the reasons. Sometimes children pay for the sins of their parents. Often when the parents repent of their wrongs and turn in true repentance, their child is healed. If not soverignly by deliverance, which I said many people do not understand the truth behind. Some things God will do of his own grace others we need to exercise the authority God has given us. Now lets face fact the child did not born with Aids because they had sex with some Aids person, but their parents or parent may have certainly did. Thus the child is now paying for the sin of their parents. It is clear that smoking and drink and cause negative effects to the body often times damage is done to the reproductive organs. People who drink and smoke during or before pregnancy often times know that there is a risk of their child being deform. Does this stop them, of course not. Men have become lovers of themselves. Is God to be blamed, of course not, you choose to engage in these sins if I may say so, so you must face the consequences, sadly not only you but your family as well. Bottom line is as parents we allow and disallow things into our child's life both physically and spiritual.

So you may be thinking now well I have not done these things but my child end up that way. Sometimes we pay not only for the sins of our parents but grandparents and great grandparents often going back 4 generations of more. I do not know the life my great grandparents lived, sometimes the things we face are a result of their sins not ours. We can leave either generational curses or blessings for our family. Good news is if we meet the condition, which most people don't because of a lack of proper knowledge we can have freedom.

Sin has a consequence not only to us but to our family. Everyday, man fulfill the lust of the flesh and engage in premarital sex, leaving women to take care of children on their own. Did God strip you naked and drop you in bed together? Now we have a generation growing up without fathers. Is it God to blame, his words forbid it, sin is rebellion to the laws of God and just like breaking any law there is a consequence.

Generational curse??
Lets be real about this. I cant accept that because of some epic sh!t my great grandfather did im goin to have to pay for it? So my life and my works can account for nothing if im to be held accountable for all that preceded me first? Is GOD really that bitter and petty to make someone suffer for something they had no hand in at all? so what , if the HIV+ child prays hard enough they will be healed and thus 'delivered' from this generational curse? Total utter nonsense. tell me how that would give them back the normal life a non-infected child?

Yes, there is a clear line between fact and opinion... What goes up must come down , gravity is a fact yes , but still relative and in proportion to defining factors that affect it. Your assertion is that i must take everything 'given' unto me, be it fair or unfair and ascribe it in some way to the will of God? i think some like yourself will say it and shout it at the highest levels once it dont affect you directly........ and when it hits home, then is when yuh get caught holdin yuh head and bawlin 'oh God why me'.. Wouldnt be the first time i see it tho - How reality humbles idealists

[Chimera]

Wow, this God sounds like such an muffler bearing if he gonna make me and my children pay for sins of parents/grandparents

God's a sadist then?