Property Tax in Trinidad & Tobago

[sMASH]

[ProtonPowder]

It's been a while since we heard about it.

Today's Guardian 18/9/2018

[shake d livin wake d dead]

Rolling out that tax in an election year....something smells weird

[sMASH]

It's a tag team.. One term red next term yellow, following term red and that's how it will cycle.

Every body filling pocket in parliament, and jackass we on the ground fighting each other to put them in there


Growlers don't care for another term... Who ever he give the mega contracts to, done set him up well

[teems1]

Rolling out that tax in an election year....something smells weird

Need $ for that bullet payment mid to Credit Suisse next year.

[ProtonPowder]

Same as before, if alyuh have any questions about what going on so far, go ahead and ask. I will try and answer what i could.

[shake d livin wake d dead]

ok...so what going on so far?

[ProtonPowder]

Some of the people who submitted getting calls to have the assessment done. People who didnt submit can submit their documents to the division if they want to.

Basically, nothing changed in recent times, things just quiet because it going relatively well for now.

[shake d livin wake d dead]

This entire thing so flawed is a shame...lets see what happens next year

[SLVR1]

I have a question. Say a person is renting a place for $5,000.00/mth. and when assessed the rental value is placed at $7,000.00/mth. Say the landlord then decides to increase his rent to the latter because the government valuation is held as a determination of true rental value (in the mind of the landlord). What position will those seeking to rent then be placed in, especially in a market that is already overpriced and not regulated (laws, rights etc.)? Would this be deemed a possible repercussion?

[The_Honourable]

I have a question. Say a person is renting a place for $5,000.00/mth. and when assessed the rental value is placed at $7,000.00/mth. Say the landlord then decides to increase his rent to the latter because the government valuation is held as a determination of true rental value (in the mind of the landlord). What position will those seeking to rent then be placed in, especially in a market that is already overpriced and not regulated (laws, rights etc.)? Would this be deemed a possible repercussion?

For those seeking to rent, nothing really can be done as no rent agreement was signed. Is either you negotiate with the landlord or find another place.

For those already renting, the landlord abides by the agreed price especially if there exists a rental agreement. The landlord can increase it once the duration of tenancy ends but you must be informed before the expiration date so you would have chance to negotiate or find another place.

[matr1x]

Property tax just ears charge higher rent

[adnj]

For those already renting, the landlord abides by the agreed price especially if there exists a rental agreement. The landlord can increase it once the duration of tenancy ends but you must be informed before the expiration date so you would have chance to negotiate or find another place.

Rental pricing is only controlled by a rental agreement or lease. Unless expressly stated, increases to rent require a prior notification that is equal to the rental period but not less than 30 days.

For most people (month to month), your rent can be increased 30 days after notice is served unless you have a signed lease that says otherwise.

[adnj]

Property tax just ears charge higher rent

Law of supply and demand. You can't sell it for more than people are willing to pay.

[matr1x]

True. I prefer boiling frog model

[ProtonPowder]

I have a question. Say a person is renting a place for $5,000.00/mth. and when assessed the rental value is placed at $7,000.00/mth. Say the landlord then decides to increase his rent to the latter because the government valuation is held as a determination of true rental value (in the mind of the landlord). What position will those seeking to rent then be placed in, especially in a market that is already overpriced and not regulated (laws, rights etc.)? Would this be deemed a possible repercussion?

When using the formulae and per square meter rates to calculate rental values, the calculated ARV is always lower than true market rates at present. This has been the case so far for every single rental property that was assessed so far with no exception.

Second, rental values are falling at present, in everywhere from UWI to sando and elsewhere in between. But they are falling from a very high place, so they are still higher than calculated ARVs.

To throw a back of the envelope calculation out there: the only way a calculated rental value per month will end up at 7k/month is if its a large executive studio apartment in St Clair or Westmoorings, or a very large modern house in most other parts of the country. And at those sizes, they never rent for 5k/month on the open market.

[sMASH]

The government assessment is not to determine a real rental value, but only a value in their eyes specifically to charge a tax.
But, because the field assessors, and office valuators were trained by actual valuators, it wouldn't be that far off.



Think about it like this, if u get a vehicle assessed to determine a selling price, may be different from the assessors working for the insurance company to determine a write off value.

[ProtonPowder]

One of the first things about valuations is that different purposes attract different values, even when using the same method of valuation.
A valuation for government acquisition is different from one for a mortgage or for a real estate transaction.

The rental values per unit area were calibrated in 2009 and previous using the rental rates of dwellings then, adjusted for size and amenities. The formula and method are set and detailed in legislation a long time now.

[SLVR1]

Thanks. I understand what you are saying ProtonPowder. sMASH, that is what I was thinking in terms of the training and how close they may be to market rates.

[Mr President]

Would be interesting to find out this legislation on how they calibrated the rental values.

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

Minister of Finance has stated in the Budget Presentation that Property Tax will NOT be implemented retroactively. Only from 2019 onwards.

[ProtonPowder]

I keep telling people lmao, this property tax not happening anytime soon at all.

They hiring more people and the current contract staff pumping hard. But at the end of the day is just shy of 10k/400-500k residential houses done so far.

They need half before the tax come out full swing.

[The_Honourable]

I keep telling people lmao, this property tax not happening anytime soon at all.

They hiring more people and the current contract staff pumping hard. But at the end of the day is just shy of 10k/400-500k residential houses done so far.

They need half before the tax come out full swing.

10k so far? Sounding more like 2020 we will get bills... which I doubt as is election year so 2021.

[sMASH]

it not coming soon? but the taxes will be accrued, liable, not deferred. i forget the term, but when ever it is sent out, we will have to pay for 2018 forwards.. no matter when it is rolled out.

[ProtonPowder]

And if government change, Kamla already say she will repeal the property tax.

That is all fine and dandy but remember fellas, the property tax act and the valuation of land act are two completely separate laws. The latter concerns itself with building a database: a valuation roll and encompasses that form that people were submitting, and also for the assessments that are underway all now.

The property tax only mobilising when half that database is reached in the 'opinion' of the COV and it goes to parliament, to enforce the valuations and migrating it to the property tax purpose.

[sMASH]

I DONT WANT THE BLASTED TAX REPPEALED.. I WANT IT CHANGED TO SQUARE FOOT x LAND DESIGNATION FACTOR.

U LIVE ON 5000 sqft, U MULTIPLY DAT BY A FACTOR, BE IT RESIDENTIAL, AGRICULTURAL, INDUSTRIAL, BIG BUSINESS, SMALL BUSINESS, AND THAT IS UR TAX.

nobody goin in ur house, no invasion of privacy.

u increase the VAT and income taxes, so the more u earn and the more u spend, the more u contribute. u want to pay less, u spend less or u earn less.

taxing a brick, the same brick year after year is not sustainable.

[ProtonPowder]

You know, there is a real danger in talking about things you dont have much of a clue on.

What do you think would happen if the entire property tax was based on land square footage as opposed to building square footage. Much of the land across the entire country would have to be resurveyed. You dont want an assessor on your property? Now a chainman and survey tech walking through it, and they would take much longer than the 20 minutes an assessor takes on the house.

What you think would happen for land disputes over boundaries, where people claim their land is larger and boundaries are different compared to what they are? How you determining square footage that should be rightfully paid for?

You think a man in Brasso and a man in St Clair should be paying the same rate per square foot? I say those two because those are precisely the lowest and highest rates in the country.

[sMASH]

YES!!!! pay the same blasted rate!!!!

the pitch to pave the road cost the same in st clair as in brasso. the box drain would cost the same, the light pole would be the same, the garbage collection will be the same, the schools would be the same.


the earnings would be different, the spending would be different.


what ever their logistics, carry it out.

work with what the red house has, and then as time goes on straighten out the figures to match.. if someone has a boundary dispute, it will clear it up. if earthquake remove a rod and a half, well, update the records to do so.

[ProtonPowder]

That is not equitable.

You would be hard pressed to find a single place in the entire world that does that nonsense. You say that income tax and vat should be adjusted according to ability to pay; what is called a progressive tax system. However for property taxes you suggest a flat tax, which is commonly seen as a quasi-regressive tax system.

You contradict yourself. Applicable rates to building square footage in the system so far depends on the degree of urbanisation, or industrialisation in that particular area, ie: potential to earn income and average incomes as evidenced by rental rates in the area.

Choose one and stick to it.

[88sins]

ok ProtonPowder. I got a question for you.
How can someone be charged a fine or penalty for failure/refusal to submit a valuation return form, when impsbutt himself acknowledged in the courts that the submission of said form is a voluntary step and not a mandatory one?
I only ask because they proposing an increase in the fines and penalties for failure to submit those forms or submitting them with false information, as well as late payment. I can appreciate the fine for submission of false information, but how can anyone justify fining someone for not submitting something that has been established as voluntary process?