The Religion Discussion

[bluesclues]

Rofl. It's a sad case of someone desperate to connect life to some supernatural cause. Life is not magic.

Essentially the electrical signals which form the network of cells, nerves and organs. This forms a large superstructure which we call a living being. .

Lol.. sigh.

Frankenstein wasnt just a movie. Many have reached this point of understanding in their own way and realized they needed to supply the body with electricity to 're-animate a corpse'.

The reason why a corpse is not living is because the electricity stopped flowing.

Add back the electricity to a corpse and reconnect the superstructure and show me the superconnectivity in the interconnected superstructure. Since electricity is what missing.

I am so sorry that I cannot be on here as much as before.

Bluesclues & Matrix: This is such a fascinating discussion. I remember when I read Frankenstein back in uni that the electricity sequence used to bring him to life fascinated me. You are mirroring my exact thoughts back then.

So if man is such a creator of life, in theory, adding electricity to a dead corpse should really bring it back to life.

Never happened, never will happen. Man is not a Supreme Being.

However, if man was created in the image and likeness of God, does that mean that we may have the power to do God-like things?

Yes it does. Evolution begins by giving a man a small advantage, but the more he evolves, the larger that advantage grows and things that seem complex or undecipherable to the average man, appear simple and clear to the more evolved being. The first hint that we have that power or at least a connection to it is in the fact we are able to do this simple thing... reproduce. We are able to create life by using the very advanced machinery God provided within our bodies to create a new living creature. That machinery is already constructed to create protein chains and 'connect to the superconnected interconnected non mutually exclusive superstructure(lol), creating a closed loop designed to cyclicly evolve and grow while natural intelligence helps it to adapt to changes in the environment.

If you're asking if man can do this from a scientific perspective... ie.. create machinery that does it all as described above, i would have to say 'not in a million years'. Literally. What they may be able to do within a reasonable timeframe is construct a cell, a copy of a living organism they already know and allow it to become animated... but it wont be intelligent, so every choice it has to make someone would have to be manually telling it what choices to make in interacting with the environment it is stored in. And it would basically be 'living' on life support.

[bluesclues]

fellas, electricity doesn't work like that in cells and living things. It's not a circuit board.
Energy is transferred through the electron transport chain from ATP to oxygen in the final product. The ability of reactions to occur, the whole basis of chemistry, is about electron transfer. And they are not simple reactions, they are quite complex biochemical reactions occurring through the transfer of energy from ATP to enzymes. Which in turn send out signaling proteins for another set of enzymes to do something and then something. Very finely tuned, and the equilibrium of the reactions are mostly pointing forward.

You can't just apply electricity and expect these reactions to go in reverse, or expect these biomolecules to capture the charge of electrons and continue. It's a very, very long chain of delicate processes. It is a lot of chaos also, through which the general sum equates life.

Well at least in my case, you'd be preaching to the choir. Of course it doesnt work that way because if it did, if a man get stab and died you could just stitch him back up and plug him in a wall socket to jumpstart his machine once again to reconnect to the quantum field. But you only found that out when we went looking to try and reanimate a corpse and there you learn that basically, theres a whole set of intricate traps preventing you from manually 'undoing death'. Too bad it's not so simple, and electrons flow and interact with the quantum field it can be said that they are leaving and returning to reality repeatedly to provide the body with intelligent energy. Problem is, science has no idea how to affect the quantum field so basically, this discussion ends in science saying..


We don't know but it seems there's something invisible there but when we try to poke it it doesnt react to us. We have no idea how to make show it's presence, and are unable to define a scientific method to repeat the experiment for peer review. Ie... guessing.. maybes and theories is all we have for now.

Just not enough to put God and religion in the ground. So atheists need to be careful when taking a stance based on 'their understanding' of scientific principles. Because at the end of the day, what you understand today, you could very well understand the opposite tomorrow. When you understand that understanding.. that is when yuh overstand. Lol

[bluesclues]

When you look at how dna and neurons really operate, it can be said that 'man is not altogether here'. A part of man seems missing, lost in a quantum tunnel that science just cannot follow far down enough to track it's movements once it crosses the bridge. The kinda machinery and power requirements we'd need to replicate that connection or even track it thoroughly... the world dont have enough money to pay enough scientists to research it and come to a conclusion anywhere near now.

This is all alice in wonderland and going down the rabbit hole philosophy. We havent discussed anything new under the sun yet. What is on the other side of the veil? Because even to science at this point, the most important contributing factor to life seems to come from a region associated with death and nothing. Too bad theyre a bit late, buddha has extensive teachings on the nothingness and how it is achieved.

[bluesclues]

I am going to assume you subscribe to the judeo- Christian mythology. Would you defend the japanese, native American tribes, the Indian life creation mythologies?

The 5= 2+3 argument isn't new. It's a circular logic that is at best simplistic and at worse pointless. Life is more a fractal structure with infinite branches. When considering the complex nature of life, it's time to reconsider the weak explaining of religion

mmhmm so this is the atheist debate strategy. to keep changing topics which theyve only studied partially in the hopes that they can shake off penetration testing of their beliefs?

Arent you ashamed? to call straightforward maths circular logic? really.. so you see logical progression as circular logic. a cop out. that's what's weak. and you think by keeping jumping around you'll lose or confuse me? now you reach to fractal structures i suppose some bare reference to your study on fibonnacci sequences and lattice networks? you sound like you now born to me and assume i have not studied all those fields and absorbed everything they have to offer? haha i know more about fractal progression, expansion and evolution than you can imagine.

there is no way for you to confuse me because ive studied every topic you want and need to discuss to have this discussion. do not feel i am confused or struggling in any way to understand every discovery in the fields of all sciences. as a spiritual i am more familiar with quantum fields than any of the world's scientists. and already know which of the theoretical physics assertions will pan out from which ones will fail. you have no idea who or what you speaking to, but assume i didnt do my homework. which shows me again you are young. and think you know everything.. or even more than most people.....

but you dont.

its really funny.. you keep jumping around a field trying to hide that you dont really know what you talking about, but all your hiding places are bare to me. like i have infrared vision in the dark and you trying to hide everywhere in the darkness and i can see everywhere you run to clearly but you feel you hiding.

no son. be genuine. bluffing will only work with people who know less than you on the fields you wish to stand on to defend your... belief.

You want to talk about straightforward thinking?
This is logic according to you, correct me if I am wrong

God,Jesus,Snow White and the seven dwarves are true because the bible says they are true> The bible is true because Jesus existed in it> Jesus existed in it because you believe it to be true.
None of this would exist if you didn't believe in it. How am I going so far?

Adam made love to his wife Eve, and she became pregnant and gave birth to Cain.[ She said, “With the help of the Lord I have brought forth a man.” 2 Later she gave birth to his brother Abel.
Cain made love to his wife, and she became pregnant and gave birth to Enoch < Where de ras she come from? Did somebody like you believe her into existence? Or were there other people that the bible did not or could not account for?If so , then would you agree that the bible may very well be incomplete or missing things?

let me put it this way. if there is a movie with 7 parts, the bible holds one part of it. the overseeing, generalized, directional part. the bible will direct you where to find any information on spirituality that you seek. while reading you will realize you need to get more details on a topic and guess who have it... hinduism. then you reading you will realize you need some more details on something, just so happens it is pointing you to look at ancient mayan culture.. etc etc.

it will also layout the full summary of intentions in a generalised way, while other religions may focus solely on their ancient traditional knowledge.

about jesus and snow white.
you maybe dont know the secrets of artistic expression in their interpretations of the divine. you probably didnt even know such a thing existed. but it does and represents the body of classic material in literature and entertainment in general. of course snow white and the 7 dwarves is religious/spiritual in nature. once you know what the artist is interpreting you find a much deeper world to explore in philosophy of that classic children's book/cartoon. purity conquering death and the search for immortality. which is what everyone really looking for. the occult aspect of snow white's story embodies this. and for this reason that it is conveying a fact, regardless of how that fact is expressed by the artist, makes it True.

i believed because my ancestors believed. i chose faith not to insult the intelligence of ancients who have obviously accomplished feats that we have 'forgotten' how to do. i chose to investigate their claims and in the end i come to realize man already knew everything there is to know about this world. but we in the present, we still searching with a big fragment of lost history. so it feels to me like we are all moving backwards. if the past was more advanced than us at some point, then since that point we have been degenerating not progressing through science. but fear not. that is where the fibonnacci comes into play because it's going to hit another point and that point reverses polarity and that might feel like you moving backwards but really moving forward. just you moving backward so long it become forward for you. anyway that superstring will strangle your brain so ill leave that there. just know at the end of the line for the science train is a great many dismantlings of machinery. as man will no longer need machines to do what he can do with his mind.

[matr1x]

Metaphor, as most religious examples used is not fact.

Because you choose to seek deeper meaning in the religious text, doesn't make it any more true. In fact some of the lessons religious text teach are outright messed up. Intolerance to gays, draconian punishment to crimes, justification for slavery, subservient to parents who could be abusive but you must obey. All other faiths and beliefs are heresy.

In this light, religion and their texts are the worst teaching texts. Morality exists in spite of religion.

Which ties into the idea that sure, our ancestors had some interesting ideas, but archaic beliefs. Science drags society out of primitive ideas and practices. Science answers questions that religion cannot, and shows that the mechanics of nature are not magical.

You want proof god does not exist?

Nope. Still hasn't shown up

[eitech]

Metaphor, as most religious examples used is not fact.

Because you choose to seek deeper meaning in the religious text, doesn't make it any more true. In fact some of the lessons religious text teach are outright messed up. Intolerance to gays, draconian punishment to crimes, justification for slavery, subservient to parents who could be abusive but you must obey. All other faiths and beliefs are heresy.

In this light, religion and their texts are the worst teaching texts. Morality exists in spite of religion.

Which ties into the idea that sure, our ancestors had some interesting ideas, but archaic beliefs. Science drags society out of primitive ideas and practices. Science answers questions that religion cannot, and shows that the mechanics of nature are not magical.

You want proof god does not exist?

Nope. Still hasn't shown up

Was really planning on keeping quiet but i jus had to comment here. First and foremost, God hasn't shown up because he is giving the world enough time to get saved. And he knows that men, like YOU, count slackness. But he is giving all enough time so that when he does show up, no one will have any excuse. So whether ur alive or not when he does return, i hope YOU, jus like everyone else, is ready.


2 Peter 3:9 KJVS
[9] The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.


I had to share that scripture because it applies to your so called proof why he hasn't shown up yet.

[sMASH]

Non one will have any excuses for not being saved except for the children who die young. They are too small to be accountable for not accepting Jesus.

[eitech]

Non one will have any excuses for not being saved except for the children who die young. They are too small to be accountable for not accepting Jesus.

Oh it's you again. I'm sure this time you cant show me that scripture from "my bible".

[bluefete]

This is just 'wow'.

The "Cause" of the First Cause
by Ravi Zacharias

I am a Christian because I believe that Jesus is who He says He is, and I have accepted His sacrifice as payment for my sin. Beyond that, the first and foremost assertion of Christianity is implied by the question, What is man? The answer the psalmist gives to his own question demonstrates a starting point for Christianity that is different from any other belief system, secular or religious, except for Judaism:

When I consider Your heavens, the work of Your fingers, the moon and the stars, which You have set in place, what is man that You are mindful of him, the son of man that You care for him? You made him a little lower than the heavenly beings and crowned him with glory and honor. — Psalm 8:3-5

These magnificent words were penned nearly three thousand years ago by a man marveling at the beauty and diversity of what he saw around him in nature — and yet recognizing the distinctiveness of a human being in contrast to nature.

A story circulated some years ago about Sherlock Holmes and his loyal friend and student Watson, who were together on a camping trip. After a good meal, they lay down for the night and went to sleep. Some hours later, Holmes awoke and nudged his faithful friend awake.

“Watson,” he said, “look up at the sky and tell me what you see.” “I see millions and millions of stars,” Watson replied.

Watson pondered the question and then said, “Astronomically, it tells me that there are millions of galaxies and potentially billions of planets. Astrologically, I observe that Saturn is in Leo. Horologically, I deduce that the time is approximately a quarter past three. Theologically, I can see that God is all-powerful and that we are small and insignificant. Meteorologically, I suspect that we will have a beautiful day tomorrow. What does it tell you?”

Holmes was silent for a minute before speaking. “Watson, you idiot!” he said with a measure of restraint. “Someone has stolen our tent!”

As funny as this story is, if we apply it to our present discussion, we see that an enormous robbery has taken place in which someone has stolen from you that which provides shelter or the covering for your life. It is not accidental that those who stick to a scientific single vision of ultimate reality start by denying a Creator, and from there, all of the disciplines are herded together to create a mentality that asserts that any worldview seeking a transcendent explanation for our universe is unwelcome in intelligent discussion. When science categorically and unconditionally insists to all who hunger for religious truth that there is no such thing, it has ceased to be science and is only revealing its hostility.

This, I’m afraid, is what is revealed by the stridency and belligerence of the “new atheists.” They are not open or willing to go where the evidence leads, unless that evidence sustains their own naturalistic assumptions. They have covertly reduced all philosophical thought and deduction to — ironically — faith. Perhaps inadvertently, in denying a Creator they also deny the essential worth of creation and of the act of creating, which means, then, that all great art, music, architecture, and writing must be consigned to the ash heap, because the inspiration behind these great expressions and reflections of the transcendent is denied as non-real or faith (it cannot be scientifically or empirically studied or observed). The same must apply to all the great themes of love, beauty, truth, morality, justice, and the like, as they too cannot be empirically or scientifically studied and observed.

The starting points, then, of Christianity and naturalistic science diverge, and unfortunately the resulting conflict often brings more heat than light. For when the starting point of one belief system is an intelligent mind with a purpose and that of the opposing belief system is matter and randomness, the ending points are determined right from the beginning.

On a side note, I would like to say that certain people who held these beliefs of naturalism could have saved me a lot of reading. In my days of graduate studies the noted philosopher Antony Flew was the atheist with whom we had to contend. I spent hours coming to terms with Flew’s arguments and all that he demanded of theism in terms of logic and proof. Because he was the most noted atheist of that time, it was imperative that we understood and were able to respond to his challenges.

Now times have changed, and Antony Flew finds himself in the position of writing against the vociferous atheists of our day because he contends that atheism is no longer a logically tenable position for him. He is willing, he says, to go where the evidence leads. In his book There Is a God, Flew reflects on an argument regarding the probability of human origin that he had to deal with in his younger days.

The argument runs like this: How long would it take for an infinite number of monkeys pounding on an infinite number of typewriters to compose a sonnet by Shakespeare? (Believe it or not, this argument was based on an experiment conducted by the British National Council of the Arts.) A computer was placed in a cage with six monkeys, and after one month of hammering away at the keys and using the computer as a bathroom, the monkeys produced fifty typed pages — but not one single word.

This is amazing, considering that the shortest word in English could be a one-letter word such as the letter a or I. But a one-letter word is only a word if there is space on either side of it. Flew points out that if one considers that there are thirty keys on a keyboard, the possibility of getting a one-letter word is one in 30 x 30 x 30, which is one in 27,000. If these attempts could not even result in one one-letter word, what is the possibility of getting just the first line of one of Shakespeare’s sonnets, let alone a whole sonnet? Flew quotes scientist and author Gerry Schroeder on the sheer improbability of the random existence of the universe:

If you took the entire universe and converted it to computer chips — forget the monkeys — each one weighing a millionth of a gram, and had each computer chip able to spin out 488 trials at, say, a million times a second; if you turn the entire universe into these microcomputer chips and these chips were spinning a million times a second [producing] random letters, the number of trials you would get since the beginning of time would be 10 to the 90th trials. It would be off again by a factor of 10 to the 600th. You will never get a sonnet by chance — let alone the complete works of Shakespeare. The Universe would have to be 10 to the 600th times larger. Yet the world just thinks the monkeys can do it every time.

For Flew, the sheer improbability that such an intricate design as we have in this universe is the product of mindless evolution is insurmountable; the universe must have purpose and design behind it.

As powerful an argument as statistical improbability is, a simple point I want to make here is that although the specifics may be different, this is not a new argument for the improbability of chance. Antony Flew knows this to be so. But I must add that no dyed-in-the-wool naturalist is likely to suggest that our universe could not have beaten such odds. They will say that just because it is improbable, it doesn’t mean that the universe didn’t happen this way — a view that vehemently resists both human limitation and the humility required to follow reason where it leads. Instead, they will wax eloquent, like Watson, on endless categories of convoluted descriptions of what “might” or “could” have happened, all the while ignoring the most obvious deduction or conclusion before them as to the origin of the universe — that it was a deliberate act of creation by an intelligent being. Stubbornly and deliberately ignoring that “the tent has disappeared,” there is no way for naturalists to account for human relational hungers, so they refuse to recognize that these hungers are validated by the real fact that people relate to other people through a relationship.

To even think we could get a Shakespearean sonnet by accident assumes, first, that we have other sonnets to which we can compare the “accidental” one in order to know that it is indeed a Shakespearean sonnet and, second, that whenever we see intelligibility we assume intelligence. Even if the monkeys could have produced a sonnet by accident, we would still wonder at the intelligence behind the technology of the keys and the development of the alphabet, the aesthetics of this sonnet in comparison with other sonnets, and, to boot, whether the monkeys knew what they were doing.

The numerical impossibility actually defies even the “chance” analogy. And in the origin of the universe, as naturalism tells the story, there are no monkeys to begin with. The monkeys evolved from chemistry and energy after the universe already existed. There are no alphabets to be explained. There is no idea of a sonnet except as nonexistent monkeys pounding on nonexistent keys. All these assumptions are circular.

Let me illustrate this point a little differently through the fascinating story of George Frideric Handel’s composition of Messiah. His career as a composer was on the verge of collapse, and he was naturally discouraged, feeling that he was a failure. The words for Messiah were given to him as a possible oratorio, and he decided to try one last time to compose a great piece of music. When he reached the text for the “Hallelujah Chorus” and began to reflect on the words, he said later that he saw the heavens opened and the great God himself. And as the great chorus reached its climax at the first public presentation of Messiah before the king of England, the king rose to his feet in recognition of the awesome power of the words and music combining to give honor to the One to whom honor is due. The convergence of intelligence, aesthetics, and the inspirational power of a transcending reality in the person of God has the power to bring even kings either to their feet or to their knees.

All of this is dismissed as mere nonsense by the skeptic. Not only does he take that which appears statistically impossible and try to make it actual; he takes the emotion and spiritual expression that is common to the human experience, and is therefore actual, and tries to make it farcical. Is it really possible to deny such a reality as that described by Handel’s experience in writing the music for Messiah without even a twinge of doubt that perhaps there is more to life than science alone?

This intertwining of the disciplines with relationship that is both “intrapersonal” and “interpersonal,” within and without, reveals a distinctiveness that we must recognize as sacred and inviolable. But this is denied repeatedly in naturalism, which insists that we just happen to be here, that we’re all just “dancing to our DNA,” as Richard Dawkins puts it. For the Christian, the awesome nature of the world we are part of does not point to brute science in isolation but to the Creator, a personal God who can and does relate to human beings.

[sMASH]

Non one will have any excuses for not being saved except for the children who die young. They are too small to be accountable for not accepting Jesus.

Oh it's you again. I'm sure this time you cant show me that scripture from "my bible".

No one shall go to father except through me.
Means that u have to accept Jesus as lord and saviour if u will not be saved.
Hence why people baptize little children. So that they are saved.

[matr1x]

Non one will have any excuses for not being saved except for the children who die young. They are too small to be accountable for not accepting Jesus.

Oh it's you again. I'm sure this time you cant show me that scripture from "my bible".

No one shall go to father except through me.
Means that u have to accept Jesus as lord and saviour if u will not be saved.
Hence why people baptize little children. So that they are saved.

This is where the problem stems from. Forced religious indoctrination isn't love, its abuse. Children whose voices are too young to protest are steamrolled by parents who think they are doing the right thing..but aren't.

In cases where priests abuse young children, parents should be charged equally, since they provided children to the priests. It's like parents pimping out their kids. I dare you to prove me wrong.

Whenever kids raise the issue they have been abused, they are told they are lying or ignored. Leading to years of psychological harm. This issue has come up in Trinidad. This is not an exception, this is the rule when it comes to priests.

[bluesclues]

Metaphor, as most religious examples used is not fact.

Because you choose to seek deeper meaning in the religious text, doesn't make it any more true. In fact some of the lessons religious text teach are outright messed up. Intolerance to gays, draconian punishment to crimes, justification for slavery, subservient to parents who could be abusive but you must obey. All other faiths and beliefs are heresy.

In this light, religion and their texts are the worst teaching texts. Morality exists in spite of religion.

Which ties into the idea that sure, our ancestors had some interesting ideas, but archaic beliefs. Science drags society out of primitive ideas and practices. Science answers questions that religion cannot, and shows that the mechanics of nature are not magical.

You want proof god does not exist?

Nope. Still hasn't shown up

You are incapable of judging the morality of a God who knows infinitely more than you as he/it can track all the superconnectivity mumbojumbo you speak through the universe and knows all the positive and negative effects of your actions.

I will explain one only to you. When man is doing the wrong thing to his detriment and needs to be taught the right thing otherwise he will destroy himself, a rude awakening is the only thing that will open your eyes and turn humans from their hardened selfish ways. Stoning the adulterer in history served it's purpose, as who dont hear does feel. The traumatic mass experience sends a message to future generations, let's them learn. Because you do not recognize the harm you do to ALL OF HUMANITY when you cheat on your wife and hurt her.. and vice versa when a woman swearing commitment and honour, cheats and dishonours a committed husband. It reduces trust. It hardens hearts. And dont ask me to speak more because you damn well know what it does. It destroys people. They move to suicide, they lose their minds and become disassociative. Some would say is better you did beat them with a hammer than horn them. Deception. Destroys the peace and trust and unity of mankind. Again allyuh dont listen.

So at the end of the day, all those things, public whipping, death sentence, the walk of shame from game of thrones, these structures were meant to display a mass 'discouraging' of others to perform an act which EVERYONE AGREES, hurts us all in the long run. It's about the whole of society not just you. Even though you have free will dont feel that means 'free will without consequence'. You have the free will to do good and be rewarded, and you have the free will to do shite and get lix'. Cuz at the end of the day... the most important lesson religious texts try to teach man about life and living in the physical world is this one sentence.


Learn to enjoy your free will without infringing on the free will of others. Learn to live your life, without destroying others to do it.

Anyway. You can take up your argument with God when you die. Im sure you will win an argument with a being that both owns and disseminates intelligence to all the living things in the universe. You feel you could judge God but his plans are bigger than your limited perception and serve the greater good.

When you are running a business who is the first to fire? Not the lowest productivity worker? The latecommer with the bad attitude and badtalking the boss cuz apparently you know how to run the boss business better than him. You know how to do everything better than the boss, that is why you have to apply for a job by him. That is why you didnt know how to make your own money and be running your own business how you want and feel it should be. Well it's obvious you're wrong. So go ahead... you just gonna get fired. Like i said. Who cant hear... does feel.

[eitech]

Non one will have any excuses for not being saved except for the children who die young. They are too small to be accountable for not accepting Jesus.

Oh it's you again. I'm sure this time you cant show me that scripture from "my bible".

No one shall go to father except through me.
Means that u have to accept Jesus as lord and saviour if u will not be saved.
Hence why people baptize little children. So that they are saved.

This is where the problem stems from. Forced religious indoctrination isn't love, its abuse. Children whose voices are too young to protest are steamrolled by parents who think they are doing the right thing..but aren't.

In cases where priests abuse young children, parents should be charged equally, since they provided children to the priests. It's like parents pimping out their kids. I dare you to prove me wrong.

Whenever kids raise the issue they have been abused, they are told they are lying or ignored. Leading to years of psychological harm. This issue has come up in Trinidad. This is not an exception, this is the rule when it comes to priests.

LMAO. I am sorry sir but you are not rightly dividing the word. The problem with you atheists is that you feed off the weak interpretation of the christian denominations who themselves do not rightly divide the word of truth. You take the scripture as it is from the text without rightly dividing and in doing so you grossly misinterpret. Hence u feel u found a loophole or something contrary.

What i find funny about you guys is that you conveniently use the scriptures because the same scripture ur now trying to unravel says that YOU, matr1x, being an unbeliever, cannot understand the spirit of God because ur mind is natural. You cannot know it. It is foolishness to you. Only the spiritual man can receive and understand the information.


1 Corinthians 2:14-15 KJVS
[14] But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them , because they are spiritually discerned. [15] But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.


So continue. You are actually fulfilling what God says here. It is funny cuz all what you guys say and do, the creator already knew and put in there.

But i will try to enlighten you. I do not believe in baptizing little children. You can run with ur imagination as i said that now. Lets see what you can come up with.

Oh btw. Child abuse is wrong, priest or not, and forceful religion is wrong. You see the christian denominations of this time have grossly perverted the gospel. I agree with you guys there. That is not the true gospel. I keep telling you all that. What ppl practicing in masses world wide is not true. Jesus said it too. The road to destruction is BROAD and many go therein. The road to life is NARROW and few find it. So stop looking at what everyone is doing, the truth is still out there but you guys think it doesn't exist again. I tell you it is still there. The god of this world, satan has blinded the minds of them that believe not. Sincerely want to know the truth and God will reveal it to you. I was an atheist to. I didn't believe in God. I didn't have any mid life crisis like poverty, sickness, etc. i jus wanted to really know and look at me today. It's been jus over a year and half now I've been saved. Was Blinded for over 30 yrs.

[sMASH]

The book is right, because the book says its right.
Sound logic there. Can take that go the bank and deposit it.

[bluesclues]

Metaphor, as most religious examples used is not fact.

Because you choose to seek deeper meaning in the religious text, doesn't make it any more true. In fact some of the lessons religious text teach are outright messed up. Intolerance to gays, draconian punishment to crimes, justification for slavery, subservient to parents who could be abusive but you must obey. All other faiths and beliefs are heresy.

In this light, religion and their texts are the worst teaching texts. Morality exists in spite of religion.

Which ties into the idea that sure, our ancestors had some interesting ideas, but archaic beliefs. Science drags society out of primitive ideas and practices. Science answers questions that religion cannot, and shows that the mechanics of nature are not magical.

You want proof god does not exist?

Nope. Still hasn't shown up

Was really planning on keeping quiet but i jus had to comment here. First and foremost, God hasn't shown up because he is giving the world enough time to get saved. And he knows that men, like YOU, count slackness. But he is giving all enough time so that when he does show up, no one will have any excuse. So whether ur alive or not when he does return, i hope YOU, jus like everyone else, is ready.


2 Peter 3:9 KJVS
[9] The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.


I had to share that scripture because it applies to your so called proof why he hasn't shown up yet.

Precisely.

For every day that this sky has not split open and mass revelation come to all men marking that 'time is up', the cycles of human evolution are coming to an end. You should be glad. Atheist or not all who have not yet been saved and had the spirit of God revealed to them should be glad that they have more time to get it together. Notwithstanding most assume they have more time than they do and keep postponing till it's too late. It's a choice, strategy and time management thing you have to do with your life.

it is up to everyone for themselves. Listen to God instructions. no religion says anything contrary to the other in matters of instructions on achieving divinity. All say the same thing so choose one at least and read and learn what the OBJECTIVES are. Not wallow in how it was achieved. Bare in mind, if there was any different occurence in history you may not be here today. If the persians never invaded the jews and took wives, and if the jews never tookover africa and intermixed the races, your great great great great great great great great great great great great grandfather and grandmother wouldve never met or even been born to meet and start the line that brought you forth in this time. Imagine you go back in time to stop a war only to find out you no longer exist in the present timeline...lol. i can see it now.. going backer in time to make sure the war happen lol.

Ppl should be grateful they are here today. You couldve been still in nigeria or uganda, where you dont have clean drinking water and corrupt tyrrants over your head just letting ppl run around shooting eachother with big guns and not even the police stopping them. Be glad you ancestors were moved from there on ships and brought to the beautiful caribbean with palm trees and lovely beaches, where you are born free and able to say what you want and have rights protected by God which allow you to live freely. Just again remember that freedom means the freedom for you to live free without taking away others' freedom. Here is peaceful, more civilized.

God is smart. He leave examples for you to see from the past. It still have all the tribes in remnants still existing. If you find problem with the muslims who take slaves on ships and sell them to the white man, or the white man remove you from your home in the amazon or the congo.. go back there now. It still there and it have tribes functioning on the same level as your 'true culture'. Go and be with them where it is better and dont live here in democracy and talk garbage about slavery. Nobody stopping you from making your voice heard to government. Noone stopping you from shutting down government objectives. You have power here in a better system lead to by God. God made the kings your servants and representives. It eh have no king in democracy... THE PRIME MINISTER IS YOUR EMPLOYEE!

So understand the structure. Trust God. He knows best. If he say do something do it. If he say doh do something.. dont do it. He will eventually teach you why but you will have to learn but right now he needs you to act and he will teach you later. Thats how it works alot of the time.

[eitech]

The book is right, because the book says its right.
Sound logic there. Can take that go the bank and deposit it.

Umm. My word that is brilliant. Ur right. You take it to God not the bank.

[bluesclues]

Non one will have any excuses for not being saved except for the children who die young. They are too small to be accountable for not accepting Jesus.

Oh it's you again. I'm sure this time you cant show me that scripture from "my bible".

No one shall go to father except through me.
Means that u have to accept Jesus as lord and saviour if u will not be saved.
Hence why people baptize little children. So that they are saved.

This is where the problem stems from. Forced religious indoctrination isn't love, its abuse. Children whose voices are too young to protest are steamrolled by parents who think they are doing the right thing..but aren't.

In cases where priests abuse young children, parents should be charged equally, since they provided children to the priests. It's like parents pimping out their kids. I dare you to prove me wrong.

Whenever kids raise the issue they have been abused, they are told they are lying or ignored. Leading to years of psychological harm. This issue has come up in Trinidad. This is not an exception, this is the rule when it comes to priests.

Talk all the hypocritical bullshite you want cuz we know, if your child dont listen or do something stupid he/she getting a cutarse or other 'PUNISHMENT' from you. Why you doh leave the child with his free will to do what he want in the house and out of it. Say to the child...'please do not smash my cellphone' and watch the child smash it because is free will. Let the child take yuh car while you sleeping and go for a spin without asking you.. free will.

At the end of the day, if you even shout at that child for doing anything wrong you are 'forcing' that child to function within your paramenters of acceptance. Send the child by an orphanage because you cant deal with it.. hypocritical punishment. In fact.. you cant say anything to that child no matter what he/she does but 'good job son im proud of you' while you watch him snort cocaine and cant hold a job and cavorting with prostitutes with sores on their skin. Never in any way deter that child from doing anything against his free will, even if it's good for him. Right? This is what you call parenting.

[matr1x]

First up, correcting a child engaging in bad behavior is not the same as forcing a child to go to a place for brainwashing. Like I said before, which priests interfere with children, parents are equally to blame, if not more.

A duty of a parent is to lead a child, and to protect them from harm. By allowing the abuse to happen by the priests, you have failed as a parent.

Now it seems you are OK with abusive parents. After all, honor thy father and mother as the beat the life out of you, eh?

You can quote from the book all you want, but those are just words. It doesn't make god any more real.

Speaking of which, god has to be a pretty bad parent. Things are rough, but still hasn't shown up. What's he waiting for? Does he need prep time?

Or is it more likely he doesn't exist, and you and other religions concocted a magical space man will do justice on the bad people.

Religious people are not just egotistical, but self important. As if they know the words and you better watch out or magical space man will judge you when you die. It gives them a sense of self worth that they matter, in a universe that doesn't care.

You know what religion has given to the world? Death, mayhem, chaos, hate, and Benny hinn.

[eitech]

Genesis 6:11-12 KJVS
[11] The earth also was corrupt before God, and the earth was filled with violence. [12] And God looked upon the earth, and, behold, it was corrupt; for all flesh had corrupted his way upon the earth.

And this was before "religion". So what was the problem? Lol

[bluesclues]

First up, correcting a child engaging in bad behavior is not the same as forcing a child to go to a place for brainwashing. Like I said before, which priests interfere with children, parents are equally to blame, if not more.

A duty of a parent is to lead a child, and to protect them from harm. By allowing the abuse to happen by the priests, you have failed as a parent.

Now it seems you are OK with abusive parents. After all, honor thy father and mother as the beat the life out of you, eh?

You can quote from the book all you want, but those are just words. It doesn't make god any more real.

Speaking of which, god has to be a pretty bad parent. Things are rough, but still hasn't shown up. What's he waiting for? Does he need prep time?

Or is it more likely he doesn't exist, and you and other religions concocted a magical space man will do justice on the bad people.

Religious people are not just egotistical, but self important. As if they know the words and you better watch out or magical space man will judge you when you die. It gives them a sense of self worth that they matter, in a universe that doesn't care.

You know what religion has given to the world? Death, mayhem, chaos, hate, and Benny hinn.

you see, you dont even recognize the harm your ignorance does to the world but you can judge God. you dont understand that within the religious indoctrination is the teaching of how man SHOULD behave with his fellow man to achieve peace, success and evolution. so let me remind you of the hot iron. when you touch it with your bare hand it burns right? well there's a book telling you not to touch it and if you read it you would know not to touch it the first time you see it. but those of who refuse indoctrination or teachings of any religio-spiritual sort, you will have to touch the iron and get burn before you know not to touch it. and you couldve spare yourself allll that pain by listening to what wise people who raising and making children for 1000s of years. you feel you know more than them by yourself on parenting. see how foolish you are? you in your ignorant supidity will claim you know more about managing a stable, when there is books and documentation from thousands of years of stable owners documenting their work. you in your one lifetime and your 1 stable, know more about horses than that book. then you will go university to learn from a book a couple hundred years old because you have to get training from experienced people and their documented knowledge. yet you still dont see the similarity.

some have to burn to learn, and others will learn from reading about the mistakes of others so they know what mistakes not to make before the problem comes to their court. and naturally will gain from the wisdom that those who came before them learned from their mistakes. if you must make the same mistake to learn and cant learn from others well that may just be your destiny. some destined to go up and some destined to go down. you cant get away.. you will learn. you will pass. you will get your degree.. but how many times you have to start over from primary school to do it.. is all your choice. but when you done, you will have learned and you will no longer be ignorant. it is not my problem or your neighbor's. it is yours and yours alone. the internal progression required for spirituality all comes from an internal judgement. YOUR CHOICES.. forget what the other fella do.. is what you do. if you follow he because you see he doing it. then you will get the same punishment or reward he going to get. so remember, your choice to be atheist and the impending repurcussions of that isnt about parenting. its about your ignorance. you keep getting burned and living a life where you feel empty, you keep trying to fill the emptiness with more material and it just never fills. you live your life every day feeling hollow inside but happy that noone can really see it when you out and about. you who know everything about this world and dont need any teaching from 1000s of years of collected wisdom supposed to know how to fill that emptiness. too bad there isnt a book that tells you what that emptiness is and how to fill it.

oh snap there was a book but you disregarded it as nonsense. yup... best excuse ever to tell God why you didnt nurture your spirit in time and wish for his mercy in extending eternal life to you along with all those who made sacrifices all their life for God. and you think that is fair that you should be saved with them.

my friend. sorry to be crass. but the amount of salt you will have to suck with that excuse.

[bluesclues]

let me give you a project to do.. if you not too lazy.

go through the bible, and make a list of all the positive things you gain from it. and make a list of all the negative things you gain from it. from the way you speak people will swear the bible only teaches negative things to humans.

anything you see as wisodm.. put it in your positive list
anything you see as hateful or other negative emotion put it in the negative list.

you will see for yourself how biased and unfair a judge you are. completely unsuitable to judge a God. because when you throw out that book, you throw out all the good in it with it.

and what it is.. all of them hating on God because they want the right to be able to bull man in the bottom and still get eternal life even though it acts contrary to God's universal intentions. when in this day under christianity, it hardly matters because again.. God will save who deserves to be saved individually from all who destroying the earth. check the stories.. God always lead his prophets away from the shite and everybody else who in they folly go down. one man build a ark, he try to save everybody and tell them build boats too.. they had no time for that.. but because they die is God fault. god tell them dont pray to idols and carvings, one man alone listen, God escort him out the region safely and then that region get the lix was coming to them. god say multiply to fill the earth and allyuh want to bull in bottom and do thing contrary to assisting in reproduction..prophet get escorted out of the region, fire and brimstone upon all who stay, and the wife looking back because she really wanted to take part in the nonsense too.. ok stay and take brimstone and become a pillar of calcium in the bare shape of a human ashed.

where the prophet was every time? safe. so know that even if the whole earth was to blow up... God people will get escorted off.. safe. because they listening, and trying. but you the atheist, you will not build the boat because is nonsense, so when the flood come you will drown. that is not God fault. is YOURS.

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

Sounds to me like some invisible force that permeates spacetime. Also considering dead things have no intelligence then it would seem this life giving force also provides intelligence and/or awareness, in living creatures. .

"It can't be explained therefore God did it"

[bluesclues]

Sounds to me like some invisible force that permeates spacetime. Also considering dead things have no intelligence then it would seem this life giving force also provides intelligence and/or awareness, in living creatures. .

"It can't be explained therefore God did it"

i dont remember mentioning God in that sentence anywhere. you should know you quoted it. but if it seems like and sounds like God to you too.. then i guess if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck.... or no? lol

[sMASH]

let me give you a project to do.. if you not too lazy.

go through the bible, and make a list of all the positive things you gain from it. and make a list of all the negative things you gain from it. from the way you speak people will swear the bible only teaches negative things to humans.

anything you see as wisodm.. put it in your positive list
anything you see as hateful or other negative emotion put it in the negative list.

you will see for yourself how biased and unfair a judge you are. completely unsuitable to judge a God. because when you throw out that book, you throw out all the good in it with it.

and what it is.. all of them hating on God because they want the right to be able to bull man in the bottom and still get eternal life even though it acts contrary to God's universal intentions. when in this day under christianity, it hardly matters because again.. God will save who deserves to be saved individually from all who destroying the earth. check the stories.. God always lead his prophets away from the shite and everybody else who in they folly go down. one man build a ark, he try to save everybody and tell them build boats too.. they had no time for that.. but because they die is God fault. god tell them dont pray to idols and carvings, one man alone listen, God escort him out the region safely and then that region get the lix was coming to them. god say multiply to fill the earth and allyuh want to bull in bottom and do thing contrary to assisting in reproduction..prophet get escorted out of the region, fire and brimstone upon all who stay, and the wife looking back because she really wanted to take part in the nonsense too.. ok stay and take brimstone and become a pillar of calcium in the bare shape of a human ashed.

where the prophet was every time? safe. so know that even if the whole earth was to blow up... God people will get escorted off.. safe. because they listening, and trying. but you the atheist, you will not build the boat because is nonsense, so when the flood come you will drown. that is not God fault. is YOURS.

If it didn't have the flood...
Edit; Sry, who sent the flood...

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

Sounds to me like some invisible force that permeates spacetime. Also considering dead things have no intelligence then it would seem this life giving force also provides intelligence and/or awareness, in living creatures. .

"It can't be explained therefore God did it"

i dont remember mentioning God in that sentence anywhere. you should know you quoted it. but if it seems like and sounds like God to you too.. then i guess if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck.... or no? lol

Thanks for proving my point.

[bluesclues]

let me give you a project to do.. if you not too lazy.

go through the bible, and make a list of all the positive things you gain from it. and make a list of all the negative things you gain from it. from the way you speak people will swear the bible only teaches negative things to humans.

anything you see as wisodm.. put it in your positive list
anything you see as hateful or other negative emotion put it in the negative list.

you will see for yourself how biased and unfair a judge you are. completely unsuitable to judge a God. because when you throw out that book, you throw out all the good in it with it.

and what it is.. all of them hating on God because they want the right to be able to bull man in the bottom and still get eternal life even though it acts contrary to God's universal intentions. when in this day under christianity, it hardly matters because again.. God will save who deserves to be saved individually from all who destroying the earth. check the stories.. God always lead his prophets away from the shite and everybody else who in they folly go down. one man build a ark, he try to save everybody and tell them build boats too.. they had no time for that.. but because they die is God fault. god tell them dont pray to idols and carvings, one man alone listen, God escort him out the region safely and then that region get the lix was coming to them. god say multiply to fill the earth and allyuh want to bull in bottom and do thing contrary to assisting in reproduction..prophet get escorted out of the region, fire and brimstone upon all who stay, and the wife looking back because she really wanted to take part in the nonsense too.. ok stay and take brimstone and become a pillar of calcium in the bare shape of a human ashed.

where the prophet was every time? safe. so know that even if the whole earth was to blow up... God people will get escorted off.. safe. because they listening, and trying. but you the atheist, you will not build the boat because is nonsense, so when the flood come you will drown. that is not God fault. is YOURS.

If it didn't have the flood...
Edit; Sry, who sent the flood...

All of we here ust renting. When landlord say, next Friday there will be fumagation services throughout the building between the hours of 9am and 2pm. It is your option to stay and breathe in the fumes and get fumagated with the roaches and mosquitoes if you so choose. I know, my arse will be finding something to do away from the compound during those times. Considering i got fair warning.

[bluesclues]

Sounds to me like some invisible force that permeates spacetime. Also considering dead things have no intelligence then it would seem this life giving force also provides intelligence and/or awareness, in living creatures. .

"It can't be explained therefore God did it"

i dont remember mentioning God in that sentence anywhere. you should know you quoted it. but if it seems like and sounds like God to you too.. then i guess if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck.... or no? lol

Thanks for proving my point.

Im just curious tho..

What would you call something thats invisible like magnetic waves, fills the whole of spacetime even passing through solid objects and when observed seems to be transporting things in and out spacetime and has a brain of it's own and alive. But without which you would not have the awareness to even question it.

All stated above have been logically deduced through science. Just not yet compiled.

Let's go ahead an make a new name for a wheel even though 'wheel' has worked so fine for all this time.

[eitech]

Mankind eh. He plans for everything in his life: job, house, work, children, family, etc etc etc, but his own soul he neglects. It is sad. What shall it profit you if you gain the whole world and lose your soul. Very well, lets all wait till we die to find out the truth. And when that happens, you ungrateful ppl will still blame God.

[matr1x]

Ah, the Bible cherry picking exercise. The wisdom preached, is no different than any intelligent society developed. The bible didn't start the development of morals.

The bible is a Christian religious text which has guided the movement of Christian people. Let us examine it's march. You might try to cop out and try to separate the faith and the people, but one relies on the other to exist. You say it's a guide on how people should live, but if actions by the faithful are any indication, it's a book of death.

The inquisition where people were tortured and killed based on faith. Or ideas.
The new world expansion where the church demanded the spread of the faith. My people, the Carib, are evidence of this genocide. Don't even ask about the other cultures. Convert or die. That was the prayer of choice of Christian faith back then.

The witch trials where the faithful rounded up people accused of witch craft, and tortured.

Slavery which is enforced in the Bible has a history that is.well known.

[eitech]

Ah, the Bible cherry picking exercise. The wisdom preached, is no different than any intelligent society developed. The bible didn't start the development of morals.

The bible is a Christian religious text which has guided the movement of Christian people. Let us examine it's march. You might try to cop out and try to separate the faith and the people, but one relies on the other to exist. You say it's a guide on how people should live, but if actions by the faithful are any indication, it's a book of death.

The inquisition where people were tortured and killed based on faith. Or ideas.
The new world expansion where the church demanded the spread of the faith. My people, the Carib, are evidence of this genocide. Don't even ask about the other cultures. Convert or die. That was the prayer of choice of Christian faith back then.

The witch trials where the faithful rounded up people accused of witch craft, and tortured.

Slavery which is enforced in the Bible has a history that is.well known.

LMAO. Imagine u accusing others of cherry picking yet you are doing the same thing.

Judge not lest ye be judged.

But i guess you wont understand that either.