The Religion Discussion

[meccalli]

Well maybe you should teach us all the intricate details of spirituality. Since you already blessed by God to understand all the mysteries man has struggled with for centuries.

Good start. Confession is good, you should continue by telling everyone who can't see past your facade that you have no idea about these things you love to profess. It's blatantly obvious to me of the botched explanations of concepts you like to throw around.
If you'd actually like to research what you teach properly, I can recommend the works of Marco Pasi.
http://www.uva.nl/over-de-uva/organisat ... .pasi.html

[sMASH]

Another aspect of the Islamic view of Jesus:

Muslims believe that Jesus has to return. There are specifics according to Islamic religion what will go on, but the gist is he will come after the the anti Christ and there is be the end time war etc etc.

But as we believe he is a man, and are taught that all souls will taste death, it means he must die eventually.
In islam we are taught that when u die u wait until judgment and then to the after life.
But because jesus is to return as a man, that he isn't dead. He didn't die on the cross as the jews believed.
We believe that his image was placed on someone else, and that person was killed instead.
When he came back and wasn't recognised, and ate the honey comb and fish etc, were examples to show that he didn't look like he did before and was still alive.




That is our perspective on the supposed crucifixion of Christ.
It just didn't happen.
And from what I remember, that is why, he is referred to as the messihi or messiah... as the prophet to lead in the end times.

Although Muhammad is the last prophet for man and jinn, Jesus will have to return to lead the end. And so wasn't allowed to be killed.

Just thought I should share another difference.

[meccalli]

Another aspect of the Islamic view of Jesus:

The bible teaches he has died and was resurrected. He is still a man.
He bore the marks of his crucifixion which is why he wasn't recognized and why he retained the marks in his hands and side when he appeared to Thomas. It's very likely that his beard was ripped off as alluded to in prophecy several hundred years in Isaiah before his birth. It's the same idea of people looking completely different after shaving off a large beard. The events described in the gospels match the transcript of Isaiah in exacting accuracy. It also agrees with the fact that shaving off the beards of hebrews was considered to be a disgrace and an act of humiliation particularly when captured by their enemies who shaved their heads and beards.

"I gave My back to those who strike Me, And My cheeks to those who pluck out the beard; I did not cover My face from humiliation and spitting." Isa. 50.6

"Behold, My servant will prosper,
He will be high and lifted up and [h]greatly exalted. Just as many were astonished at you, My people,
So His appearance was marred more than any man And His form more than the sons of men. Thus He will sprinkle many nations,
Kings will shut their mouths on account of Him;For what had not been told them they will see,And what they had not heard they will understand." Isa 52:14

Him being resurrected has nothing to do with an inability to consume food or become anything other than a man. Even angels sat down ate with Abraham.
.” 7 Abraham also ran to the herd, and took a tender and [j]choice calf and gave it to the servant, and he hurried to prepare it. 8 He took curds and milk and the calf which he had prepared, and placed it before them; and he was standing by them under the tree [k]as they ate.

[bluesclues]

Well maybe you should teach us all the intricate details of spirituality. Since you already blessed by God to understand all the mysteries man has struggled with for centuries.

Good start. Confession is good, you should continue by telling everyone who can't see past your facade that you have no idea about these things you love to profess. It's blatantly obvious to me of the botched explanations of concepts you like to throw around.
If you'd actually like to research what you teach properly, I can recommend the works of Marco Pasi.
http://www.uva.nl/over-de-uva/organisat ... .pasi.html

The only thing i am going to do is leave you to flounder in that puddle of mud u splashing up in and calling it a pool.

I like how u are capable of not knowing what is, yet still being able to be sure of what isnt. Carry on. You will get far through those thistles. And nowhere at the same time. If u dont do what i advise, which is by God's spirit with me and my body a vessel. You will never see heaven. It is the way. The ONLY way. what you think you know is actually futility.

Laymen btw, cannot practice mysticism. They may be mystics, and this is to mean student of mysticism. Only one so attained of the 'crown' can practice mystic converse. And to knw of spiritual things and perceptions. Such as the attributes of the spirit. Which you, according to your current path and trajectory i can tell you, will never know. Because u heading in the opposite direction.

[bluesclues]

Another aspect of the Islamic view of Jesus:

Muslims believe that Jesus has to return. There are specifics according to Islamic religion what will go on, but the gist is he will come after the the anti Christ and there is be the end time war etc etc.

But as we believe he is a man, and are taught that all souls will taste death, it means he must die eventually.
In islam we are taught that when u die u wait until judgment and then to the after life.
But because jesus is to return as a man, that he isn't dead. He didn't die on the cross as the jews believed.
We believe that his image was placed on someone else, and that person was killed instead.
When he came back and wasn't recognised, and ate the honey comb and fish etc, were examples to show that he didn't look like he did before and was still alive.




That is our perspective on the supposed crucifixion of Christ.
It just didn't happen.
And from what I remember, that is why, he is referred to as the messihi or messiah... as the prophet to lead in the end times.

Although Muhammad is the last prophet for man and jinn, Jesus will have to return to lead the end. And so wasn't allowed to be killed.

Just thought I should share another difference.

Surah 4 of the Quran addresses the arabic view of the crucifixion and if you read with a keen eye you can discern the truth of what is told and not take from what is assumed.

And [for] their saying, "Indeed, we have killed the Messiah, Jesus, the son of Mary, the messenger of Allah ." And they did not kill him, nor did they crucify him; but [another] was made to resemble him to them. And indeed, those who differ over it are in doubt about it. They have no knowledge of it except the following of assumption. And they did not kill him, for certain.

Note the last 2 sentences. They have no knowledge except for THE FOLLOWING OF assumption.

The assumptions therefore being referred to were previously stated:
They did not kill him
They did not crucify him
Another was made to resemble him

If u are following any f these trains of thought, the very Quran has already made it clear that it is one of conjecture and assumption. Because they have 'no KNOWLEDGE of it'. This admits, they are in Ignorance.

Verse 158 addresses the issue with the true mystical knowledge of what happened as affirmed by Allah.

Verse 158

Rather, Allah raised him to Himself. And ever is Allah Exalted in Might and Wise.

So now that the assumptins have been spken about, the Quran goes on to tell us what really happened. 'Rather' than those assumption, and contrary to popular belief.

So we have three assumptioons which are incorrect.

They did not kill him - this is not true.. they killed him
They did not crucify him - yes, he was crucified
Someone was made to look like him - nope.. it was him

And when all was dne, Allah raised him up to heaven. Since flesh does not enter heaven, it is only his spirit that was raised or ascended into heaven.

[meccalli]

You will never see heaven. It is the way. The ONLY way. what you think you know is actually futility.

Confirmed. I'm not going down that route.

But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, in which the heavens will pass away with a roar and the elements will be destroyed with intense heat, and the earth and [b]its works will be [c]burned up.

11 Since all these things are to be destroyed in this way, what sort of people ought you to be in holy conduct and godliness, 12 looking for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be destroyed by burning, and the elements will melt with intense heat! 13 But according to His promise we are looking for new heavens and a new earth, in which righteousness dwells.

Hope you enjoy your time in an empty heaven, wherever it may be. The righteous don't go to heaven, they inherit a new earth in which God comes down to dwell with mankind.

Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and the sea was no more. 2 And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. 3 And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, “Behold, the dwelling place[a] of God is with man. He will dwell with them, and they will be his people,[b] and God himself will be with them as their God.[c] 4 He will wipe away every tear from their eyes, and death shall be no more, neither shall there be mourning, nor crying, nor pain anymore, for the former things have passed away.”

[bluesclues]

Surah 44 also poses some relevance as Allah speaks of the the first death in reference to the 'second death'.

56. They will never taste death therein except the first death (of this world), and He will save them from the torment of the blazing Fire,

57. As a Bounty from your Lord! That will be the supreme success!

So for those chosen by Allah and bestowed the knowledge of spiritual matters, sent as an aid to all for understanding they will only taste 1st death. This is the death of the physical body. All men must depart their body. But the spirit, does not have to die.

The Quran also addresses naysayers who do not believe in the life of the spirit.

34. Verily, these (Quraish) people are saying:

35. "There is nothing but our first death, and we shall not be resurrected.

36. "Then bring back our fore-fathers, if you speak the truth!"

37. Are they better or the people of Tubba' and those before them? We destroyed them because they were indeed Mujrimun (disbelievers, sinners etc.).

There are other passages in the quran which speak of first death and second death and should make it clear to you what is meant in the Quran's account of jesus' crucifixion. Second death is the death of the spirit. Which Allah/God has reserved for disbelievers. Ie.. if u believe in nothing, then nothing is what you will get.

[sMASH]

in islam, flesh does enter heaven, a few people were taken up to heaven.. according to islam.

i seem to recall a term 'jacob's ladder'

but any way, the people who conducted the crucifixion thought they were killing jesus because they assumed they did, because someone else had his image.

so, they did not kill him for certain.

that is according to islam though... it differs to what u have read from your bible. u are free to believe which ever story u want.



re-reading that translation word for word...

'and indeed those who differ over it are in doubt about it' - the previous words said that jesus wasn't killed, because someone else had the same look, and it that person who was killed. so who ever differs with those words, are in doubt about it. meaning, that if they say he WAS killed, they are in doubt, wrong mind.

'they have no knowledge of it except the following of assumption'- u forgot to read the word 'of'. they have no knowledge of the guise, the facade, the charade, the switcharoo that went on. 'except the following OF assumption.
it doesn't mean the rest of the things are assumptions, as in a list of assumptions. it means that the people were just following what was assumed... by other people. because they didnt know better, because that is how it looked. because the guy who was killed looked just like jesus. so they thought they killed him.


but this is 'he say/she say'. i cant beat up no christian for saying that they killed him, because it did look like they killed him. and u all are just going along with that assumption..... some people assumed, and u guys follow them.
... from the islamic perspective.

[bluesclues]

in islam, flesh does enter heaven, a few people were taken up to heaven.. according to islam.

i seem to recall a term 'jacob's ladder'

but any way, the people who conducted the crucifixion thought they were killing jesus because they assumed they did, because someone else had his image.

so, they did not kill him for certain.

that is according to islam though... it differs to what u have read from your bible. u are free to believe which ever story u want.



re-reading that translation word for word...

'and indeed those who differ over it are in doubt about it' - the previous words said that jesus wasn't killed, because someone else had the same look, and it that person who was killed. so who ever differs with those words, are in doubt about it. meaning, that if they say he WAS killed, they are in doubt, wrong mind.

'they have no knowledge of it except the following of assumption'- u forgot to read the word 'of'. they have no knowledge of the guise, the facade, the charade, the switcharoo that went on. 'except the following OF assumption.
it doesn't mean the rest of the things are assumptions, as in a list of assumptions. it means that the people were just following what was assumed... by other people. because they didnt know better, because that is how it looked. because the guy who was killed looked just like jesus. so they thought they killed him.


but this is 'he say/she say'. i cant beat up no christian for saying that they killed him, because it did look like they killed him. and u all are just going along with that assumption..... some people assumed, and u guys follow them.
... from the islamic perspective.

Read my post. Noone took his image. He was crucified and did die... the first death only. His spirit was raised to heaven by Allah. All else is conjecture cnfirmed by the Quran if u read it with the right eye. There was no switcharoo. Those saying so are labelled assumers with no real knwledge of what transpired by the Quran. See it.


Jacob's ladder is the very jewish sephirot i spoke of earlier. The sephirot is actually a table which teaches you the different suppliments of the spirit. Just like your body needs nutrition, so too does your spirit. And the sephirot and it's 10 milestone course is a guide to attainment of God's grace. Mastering each element, each stone in the table will elevate yur spirit to the level of christ consciousness.

It should be no surprise that there is also a direct correlation to the chakra system as this identifies the spiritual centers which the spirit uses to provide consciousness energy to the physical body. Graduating through the levels of the sephirot builds these centres allwing your body to process larger flows of spiritual energy.

Just some additional knowledge as we're on the topic. Everything is tied in. And everyone has the correct set of instructions. Is about how u read it and what in your heart is what will color your perception of what you read.

[bluesclues]

You will never see heaven. It is the way. The ONLY way. what you think you know is actually futility.

Confirmed. I'm not going down that route.

But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, in which the heavens will pass away with a roar and the elements will be destroyed with intense heat, and the earth and [b]its works will be [c]burned up.

11 Since all these things are to be destroyed in this way, what sort of people ought you to be in holy conduct and godliness, 12 looking for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be destroyed by burning, and the elements will melt with intense heat! 13 But according to His promise we are looking for new heavens and a new earth, in which righteousness dwells.

Hope you enjoy your time in an empty heaven, wherever it may be. The righteous don't go to heaven, they inherit a new earth in which God comes down to dwell with mankind.

Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and the sea was no more. 2 And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. 3 And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, “Behold, the dwelling place[a] of God is with man. He will dwell with them, and they will be his people,[b] and God himself will be with them as their God.[c] 4 He will wipe away every tear from their eyes, and death shall be no more, neither shall there be mourning, nor crying, nor pain anymore, for the former things have passed away.”

The only thing i have to say to u about ur heaven on earth u talking about is... its already here right now and u presently cant see it or participate in it.

As is everyone here who is still trapped by their limited perception.

[bluesclues]

Real cool, jesus let an innocent man die in his place. Who was this man? What was his reward for saving jesus? See allyuh will distinguish now between what the imam say and what the spirit of God is teaching yu through me.

U read the thing and understand it backwards. That is why some saying he still alive immortal man in the flesh on earth since them days and all kina crap.

See and understand who the real assumers are in the passage. If ur imam taught u that. He taught u the wrong thing. Correct it now and dont dispute about it.

The quran says they are all ignorant who say he switched out for someone else.


Man say jesus duck the crucifixion cuz he did fraid to dead yes.. lawd lol

[sMASH]

i read ur post, and it is not aligning with what u quoted. the quran says that someone looked like jesus and that that person was killed. the people there and then didnt know any better and reasonably ASSUMED that they had killed jesus. the people there told other people and u all FOLLOW THOSE PEOPLE. your knowledge would only be the FOLLOWING OF ASSUMPTION.

[hong kong phooey]

Welll done China .

http://edition.cnn.com/2017/03/31/asia/ ... index.html

[bluesclues]

i read ur post, and it is not aligning with what u quoted. the quran says that someone looked like jesus and that that person was killed. the people there and then didnt know any better and reasonably ASSUMED that they had killed jesus. the people there told other people and u all FOLLOW THOSE PEOPLE. your knowledge would only be the FOLLOWING OF ASSUMPTION.

This is not hard u know. Reading and comprehension.

The structure of the passage teaches that they who say he did not die, was not crucified, and someone else took his place have NO KNOWLEDGE. In other words they are ignorant. U will have to conquer your brainwashing to see it. I cant help you there. If a man chooses to be a slave to anything but Allah then he has decided to serve an inferior thing. And has cast himself as less than a man.

It then goes on to say.. he did not die for certain. This is the spiritual death being spoken of. The secnd death. He did nt die the second death. He was raised to heaven.

2 deaths.

Again.. when the people speak they speak of death frm the physical perspective, so death to people is the death of the body. But to Allah that is not truly death. True death is when your spirit AND your body is extinguished.

I.e. - a man cannot kill a prophet. He may kill the body. But the spirit will live on raised to heaven. Where he may feel like 'he killed him for certain'. It unfortunately for him is not the case since the prophet lives in spirit. A thing that the one who killed him will never have the pleasure of experiencing. So he did nt kill him for certain. The prophet is nt dead fr sure. Because man has no weapon that can kill the soul. Only God can do that.

U must visit the story of caligula which transpires this very same message. Caligula waged war on poseidon and instructed his army to go down to the beach and stab at the water with their spears. This was their strategy to kill the God of the sea. Water symbolic of the spirit. Caligula attempted to kill a spirit with human weapons. It conveys the futility and the embarrassingly low intelligence of spiritual matters. Like an ant trying to take down a wild buffalo solo. So silly an attempt it's retarded.

So they killed the body, but they could not touch the spirit. This is why Jesus still lives.

You will have to make a choice what u choose to believe and understand. I would suggest you do study the passage repeatedly until you can glean the perspective which lacks confusion, future cntradiction and identify what is truly the assumption. It may be hard for u to accept but by your assertion u make urself part of a group that for certain you dont want to be.

Stop parroting the switcharoo conjecture. There is no proof of this. And john confirms that jesus did die on the cross. John is one of the few who actually witnessed the crucifixion. He has KNOWLEDGE of what truly transpired. At death Jesus surrendered his spirit to God.

[sMASH]

44. Surah Ad-Dukhan (The Smoke)

In the Name of Allah, The Most Gracious, Most Merciful

1. Ha-Mim.
[These letters are one of the miracles of the Qur'an and none but Allah (Alone) knows their meanings].
2. By the manifest Book (this Qur'an) that makes things clear,
3. We sent it (this Qur'an) down on a blessed night [(i.e. night of Qadr, Surah No: 97) in the month of Ramadan,, the 9th month of the Islamic calendar]. Verily, We are ever warning [mankind that Our Torment will reach those who disbelieve in Our Oneness of Lordship and in Our Oneness of worship].
4. Therein (that night) is decreed every matter of ordainments .
5. Amran (i.e. a Command or this Qur'an or the Decree of every matter) from Us. Verily, We are ever sending (the Messengers),
6. (As) a Mercy from your Lord. Verily! He is the All-Hearer, the All-Knower.
7. The Lord of the heavens and the earth and all that is between them, if you (but) have a faith with certainty.
8. La ilaha illa Huwa (none has the right to be worshipped but He). It is He Who gives life and causes death, your Lord and the Lord of your fore-fathers.
9. Nay! They play in doubt.
10. Then wait you for the Day when the sky will bring forth a visible smoke.
11. Covering the people, this is a painful torment.
12. (They will say): "Our Lord! Remove the torment from us, really we shall become believers!"
13. How can there be for them an admonition (at the time when the torment has reached them), when a Messenger explaining things clearly has already come to them.
14. Then they had turned away from him (Messenger Muhammad ) and said: "One (Muhammad ) taught (by a human being), a madman!"
15. Verily, We shall remove the torment for a while. Verily! You will revert.
16. On the Day when We shall seize you with the greatest grasp. Verily, We will exact retribution.
17. And indeed We tried before them Fir'aun's (Pharaoh) people, when there came to them a noble Messenger [i.e. Musa (Moses)],
18. Saying: "Restore to me the slaves of Allah (i.e. the Children of Israel). Verily! I am to you a Messenger worthy of all trust,
19. "And exalt not (yourselves) against Allah. Truly, I have come to you with a manifest authority.
20. "And truly, I seek refuge in my Lord and your Lord, lest you stone me (or call me a sorcerer or kill me).
21. "But if you believe me not, then keep away from me and leave me alone."
22. (But they were aggressive), so he [Musa (Moses)] called upon his Lord (saying): "These are indeed the people who are Mujrimun (disbelievers, polytheists, sinners, criminals, etc.)."
23. (Allah said): "Depart you with My slaves by night. Surely, you will be pursued.
24. "And leave the sea as it is (quiet and divided). Verily, They are a host to be drowned."
25. How many of gardens and springs do they [Fir'aun's (Pharaoh) people] left.
26. And green crops (fields etc.) and goodly places,
27. And comforts of life wherein they used to take delight!
28. Thus (it was)! And We made other people inherit them (i.e. We made the Children of Israel to inherit the kingdom of Egypt).
29. And the heavens and the earth wept not for them , nor were they given a respite.
30. And indeed We saved the Children of Israel from the humiliating torment,
31. From Fir'aun (Pharaoh); Verily! He was arrogant and was of the Musrifun (those who transgress beyond bound in spending and other things and commit great sins).
32. And We chose them (the Children of Israel) above the 'Alamin (mankind, and jinns) [during the time of Musa (Moses)] with knowledge,
33. And granted them signs in which there was a plain trial.
34. Verily, these (Quraish) people are saying:
35. "There is nothing but our first death, and we shall not be resurrected.
36. "Then bring back our fore-fathers, if you speak the truth!"
37. Are they better or the people of Tubba' and those before them? We destroyed them because they were indeed Mujrimun (disbelievers, polytheists, sinners, criminals, etc.).
38. And We created not the heavens and the earth, and all that is between them, for mere play,
39. We created them not except with truth (i.e. to examine and test those who are obedient and those who are disobedient and then reward the obedient ones and punish the disobedient ones), but most of them know not.
40. Verily, the Day of Judgement (when Allah will judge between the creatures) is the time appointed for all of them,
41. The Day when Maulan (a near relative) cannot avail Maulan (a near relative) in aught, and no help can they receive,
42. Except him on whom Allah has Mercy. Verily, He is the All-Mighty, the Most Merciful.
43. Verily, the tree of Zaqqum,
44. Will be the food of the sinners,
45. Like boiling oil, it will boil in the bellies,
46. Like the boiling of scalding water.
47. (It will be said) "Seize him and drag him into the midst of blazing Fire,
48. "Then pour over his head the torment of boiling water,
49. "Taste you (this)! Verily, you were (pretending to be) the mighty, the generous!
50. "Verily! This is that whereof you used to doubt!"
51. Verily! The Muttaqun (pious - see V.2:2), will be in place of Security (Paradise).
52. Among Gardens and Springs;
53. Dressed in fine silk and (also) in thick silk, facing each other,
54. So (it will be), and We shall marry them to Houris (female fair ones) with wide, lovely eyes.
55. They will call therein for every kind of fruit in peace and security;
56. They will never taste death therein except the first death (of this world), and He will save them from the torment of the blazing Fire,
57. As a Bounty from your Lord! That will be the supreme success!
58. Certainly, We have made this (Qur'an) easy in your tongue, in order that they may remember.
59. Wait then (O Muhammad ); Verily, they (too) are waiting.

So for those chosen by Allah and bestowed the knowledge of spiritual matters,

u referenced verses 56 and 57 and came to the conclusion that god chose people were people knowledgeable about spiritual matters to toe avoid death.
which verses led u to the conclusion that the people who will be saved from hell are people that god has chosen because of KNOWLEDGE OF SPIRITUAL MATTERS?

The Quran also addresses naysayers who do not believe in the life of the spirit.

34. Verily, these (Quraish) people are saying:

35. "There is nothing but our first death, and we shall not be resurrected.

36. "Then bring back our fore-fathers, if you speak the truth!"

37. Are they better or the people of Tubba' and those before them? We destroyed them because they were indeed Mujrimun (disbelievers, sinners etc.).

There are other passages in the quran which speak of first death and second death and should make it clear to you what is meant in the Quran's account of jesus' crucifixion. Second death is the death of the spirit. Which Allah/God has reserved for disbelievers. Ie.. if u believe in nothing, then nothing is what you will get.

jesus wasnt crucified. he is alive, and has to return to finish his work. when he does that, he will then die, and be raised up for judgment, as all men would.
about first death and second death, u have a death from this world. then there is heaven for those who are judged good and believe hell for those who have not been forgiven but believe, and they will be there for a time, and then go to heaven. then those who do not believe at all, (not atheists) will be no more.

the thing is, i cannot say exactly what sins will gain what punishments, what good deeds will gain what reward. we are told that some actions will result in some consequence, but it is up to god on judgement day to decide what is what exactly. because we are told a prostitute was allowed to go to heaven because she gave dog some water from a well, and the animal couldnt get the water. we are told that another person was sent to hell for mistreating another animal in their care.
judgement day is for god and god alone. he will decide what gets what. some people will be drunkards and be forgiven all those sins, because it was hard for them to stay away. i may get serious punishment for drinking, because staying away from alcohol is easy for me.
a rich person may go to hell for donating millions of dollars to charity, and anther person may get reward in heaven for spending money. because the millionaire could had so much money that he could have given more in charity, and the poor person would have bought some necessary food for the home, instead of gambling it away.

each person's action will weigh differently on judgment day.


first death, second death... study to live a good life, because even an atom's weight of blessings will get u reward in heaven.

[bluesclues]

Ok man. But u cant say noone ever told u.

Even though it is made rather clear to anyone wh really read their quran.

[sMASH]

Real cool, jesus let an innocent man die in his place. Who was this man? What was his reward for saving jesus? See allyuh will distinguish now between what the imam say and what the spirit of God is teaching yu through me.

U read the thing and understand it backwards. That is why some saying he still alive immortal man in the flesh on earth since them days and all kina crap.

See and understand who the real assumers are in the passage. If ur imam taught u that. He taught u the wrong thing. Correct it now and dont dispute about it.

The quran says they are all ignorant who say he switched out for someone else.


Man say jesus duck the crucifixion cuz he did fraid to dead yes.. lawd lol

hoss, read the thing frontwards and stop putting in things that aren't there. it started with saying that jesus wasnt killed, it had in the middle that jesus wasnt killed, and ended with jesus wasnt killed... even if u were dyslexic u should be able to see what is there and not be injecting things, like a nicea council man.


jesus didnt let an innocent man die, it is god that purposely did that. remember, according to ur book, jesus prayed three times for that cup to pass from him. and according to our book, the cup did pass from him, and onto another.

[bluesclues]

Ent the athiests who will be no more will be dying their second death? The death of their spirit? Or 'be no more' means something else?

I can see this is a language issue.

U die physically
Your spirit goes to judgement

If ur good, ur spirit gets to live forever...YOU get to live forever.
If ur bad yu go to hell or your spirit snuffed out and u then TOTALLY cease to exist.
Second death. Its not very complicated.

[sMASH]

Welll done China .

http://edition.cnn.com/2017/03/31/asia/ ... index.html

enforced secularism, opposite of tolerance. last year they had imams from the northwestern provinces dance and shave their beards... i know i supposed to be sad, but the image in my head of a bunch of chineses old men in chinese wear, dancing in a court yard too damn funny.

but it isn't limited to islam,

[bluesclues]

Real cool, jesus let an innocent man die in his place. Who was this man? What was his reward for saving jesus? See allyuh will distinguish now between what the imam say and what the spirit of God is teaching yu through me.

U read the thing and understand it backwards. That is why some saying he still alive immortal man in the flesh on earth since them days and all kina crap.

See and understand who the real assumers are in the passage. If ur imam taught u that. He taught u the wrong thing. Correct it now and dont dispute about it.

The quran says they are all ignorant who say he switched out for someone else.


Man say jesus duck the crucifixion cuz he did fraid to dead yes.. lawd lol

hoss, read the thing frontwards and stop putting in things that aren't there. it started with saying that jesus wasnt killed, it had in the middle that jesus wasnt killed, and ended with jesus wasnt killed... even if u were dyslexic u should be able to see what is there and not be injecting things, like a nicea council man.


jesus didnt let an innocent man die, it is god that purposely did that. remember, according to ur book, jesus prayed three times for that cup to pass from him. and according to our book, the cup did pass from him, and onto another.

The passage first states what the assumers are saying, labels them assumers with no knowledge and then goes on explaining the truth of the matter. Identifying that you all cant nail down the proper stry because ur struggling with how jesus culd die and nt be dead atthe same time. S they come up with all kinna explanation, including that he was switched for a lookalike. Because they have no knowledge of secnd death r spiritual death t be able to convey such matters. They believe they killed him, and they did kill him(body only), but they did NOT kill him truly because he remained alive in spirit form, retaining all that is his identity and entity. Just without a body of flesh.

U have to understand what Allah is trying to teach you muslims about in the passage and others like it. He is trying to teach you that you not truly dead until your spirit dies and only he has the power to prevent that(second death) from happening to you. Allah himself speaks of first and second death. Read all of surah 44 to see where it is relevant that God's messengers will only experience 1st death because they are saved.

Amazing how humans can see the correct thing and make it mean something else.

I tell you now. Everyone, you and every imam on this earth who believes it is as you say, and the passage is meant to be interpretted as you say.. are WRONG.

[sMASH]

Ent the athiests wh will be n more be dying their second death? The death f their spirit? Or 'be no more' means smething else?

I can see this is a language issue.

the english word 'disbelief' is not an exact translation of the intention of what was meant.
because every action, every thought, ever breath can be an act of obedience or disobedience, such that u can speak a harsh word to a child, or look at someone hard, or think something wrong about some oman. the term charity is used as the english word to encompass things like smiling when greeting someone, or sharing an uplifting word with someone.
doing good things generally can be considered obedience and being mean can be considered disobedience.

now u may be thinking that the word they should have used is the disobedient. but the disbelievers would mean people who don't even think about doing good or bad, they just do bad. the disbelieve] in being a general good person. u know, the person who can go to church in the morning and a fete the evening. they just do things because it is their custom, not because they believe there is worth in it. they do things, but dont believe in the things that they do or say. the average sufferer at the work place

now, an athiest may have a general sense of being altruistic. although not believing that there is an old bearded guy in the sky wanting them to come to heaven, they still do good. they still do the basic things that are good acts in islam, and may be generally good things to do.

the islamic scholars say the same thing u say, that athiests will not be permitted in heaven, because they dont believe in god, even if they do good deeds. i personally dont have such a strict interpretation of that.
but i not going to make any waves about it, because we need unity in our community, and the people who it would be applicable to, would not really go to masjid any way.

[sMASH]

Real cool, jesus let an innocent man die in his place. Who was this man? What was his reward for saving jesus? See allyuh will distinguish now between what the imam say and what the spirit of God is teaching yu through me.

U read the thing and understand it backwards. That is why some saying he still alive immortal man in the flesh on earth since them days and all kina crap.

See and understand who the real assumers are in the passage. If ur imam taught u that. He taught u the wrong thing. Correct it now and dont dispute about it.

The quran says they are all ignorant who say he switched out for someone else.


Man say jesus duck the crucifixion cuz he did fraid to dead yes.. lawd lol

hoss, read the thing frontwards and stop putting in things that aren't there. it started with saying that jesus wasnt killed, it had in the middle that jesus wasnt killed, and ended with jesus wasnt killed... even if u were dyslexic u should be able to see what is there and not be injecting things, like a nicea council man.


jesus didnt let an innocent man die, it is god that purposely did that. remember, according to ur book, jesus prayed three times for that cup to pass from him. and according to our book, the cup did pass from him, and onto another.

The passage first states what the assumers are saying, labels them assumers with no knowledge and then goes on explaining the truth of the matter. Identifying that you all cant nail down the proper stry because ur struggling with how jesus culd die and nt be dead atthe same time. S they come up with all kinna explanation, including that he was switched for a lookalike. Because they have no knowledge of secnd death r spiritual death t be able to convey such matters. They believe they killed him, and they did kill him(body only), but they did NOT kill him truly because he remained alive in spirit form, retaining all that is his identity and entity. Just without a body of flesh.

U have to understand what Allah is trying to teach you muslims about in the passage and others like it. He is trying to teach you that you not truly dead until your spirit dies and only he has the power to prevent that(second death) from happening to you. Allah himself speaks of first and second death. Read all of surah 44 to see where it is relevant that God's messengers will only experience 1st death because they are saved.

Amazing how humans can see the correct thing and make it mean something else.

I tell you now. Everyone, you and every imam on this earth who believes it is as you say, and the passage is meant to be interpretted as you say.. are WRONG.

hoss, go and sleep an read it over in the morning. u sounding tired.

[bluesclues]

Ent the athiests wh will be n more be dying their second death? The death f their spirit? Or 'be no more' means smething else?

I can see this is a language issue.

the english word 'disbelief' is not an exact translation of the intention of what was meant.
because every action, every thought, ever breath can be an act of obedience or disobedience, such that u can speak a harsh word to a child, or look at someone hard, or think something wrong about some oman. the term charity is used as the english word to encompass things like smiling when greeting someone, or sharing an uplifting word with someone.
doing good things generally can be considered obedience and being mean can be considered disobedience.

now u may be thinking that the word they should have used is the disobedient. but the disbelievers would mean people who don't even think about doing good or bad, they just do bad. the disbelieve] in being a general good person. u know, the person who can go to church in the morning and a fete the evening. they just do things because it is their custom, not because they believe there is worth in it. they do things, but dont believe in the things that they do or say. the average sufferer at the work place

now, an athiest may have a general sense of being altruistic. although not believing that there is an old bearded guy in the sky wanting them to come to heaven, they still do good. they still do the basic things that are good acts in islam, and may be generally good things to do.

the islamic scholars say the same thing u say, that athiests will not be permitted in heaven, because they dont believe in god, even if they do good deeds. i personally dont have such a strict interpretation of that.
but i not going to make any waves about it, because we need unity in our community, and the people who it would be applicable to, would not really go to masjid any way.

I don't think to change anything. I understand issues of translating foreign based texts into english. I am not baffled by any aspect of either of christian or muslim doctrine and in my eyes there are no contradictions. Quite the contrary. Both books support and corroborate eachother.

Whether it means doubt, blaspheme or disregard. All mean the same. Playing the ass with your time and not focussing enugh energy on finding God in this lifetime because it doesnt come easy and you cant see any reason atm to take the risk investing heavily into something that sunds like its from a fantasy novel. I get it. God get's it too. But he still thinks it's conceited to believe:

A) there is no God and living things came to be for no reason and by noone's intention
B) that you would be left here withut instructions r a manual of sme sort
C) that God is nt pwerful enough to ensure that the manual receive is correct and as he intended it to be as you received it

Read on... the passage also speaks of how they laugh at you fr prclaiming the existence of a God and an afterlife. Thus he has recorded in quran and bible what he has done to those types in the past. They believed in nothing, so when their bdy died, he destroyed their spirit s it is just as they believed would happen when they die they would cease to exist... well okay... cease then. You might say man thats cold. But if it werent fr their conceitedness and attacking and psycholgical warfare against believers he would not have to treat the athiest with contempt. The wrds 'giving them rope to hang themself with' appears to be a mdus operandi of ur judge. And fr every test he sends ur way and even knowing it is a test we fail it to supplant ur selfish material desires while starving ur spirits all our lives..

It all in there and he is right. None has an excuse for failing to achieve grace. Noone with a quran or bible and the ability to read and understand should fail. Because it is all.. VERY CLEAR. If your understanding is cloudy he als tld u hw to clear it up. Pray and ask for clarity. But ppl didnt read that part either, and thse wh did didnt want t try it because they dont want t feel like a fol a grown adult writing a letter to santa clause.

We know. We know all the excuses and all the misunderstandings, and all the disputes about nothings that have no value. All that yu choose to occupy yurselves with and dodge the true possibility that God and his spirit and his promise are real. But bare this in mind...

On that final day, there will be no acceptable excuse. U either attained or u didnt. And if u didnt, then you failed.

The books als tell you how to tell wh truly has Gd's spirit with him and is a messenger and a teacher. But u didnt read that either, because up to now noone has asked me the right questins pertaining to assessing whether i am the real deal or not. These failings are not mine. They are yours. Your inability t recgnize a true messenger of God in yur presence des naught to harm that messenger. Understand. Onus is on you. And the choice is yours.

When God ask you about me and why yu discarded the guidance i gave you. What will you say? U had no way of knwing if i was real or not? Ud be lying in the face of God. Because he gave you a way.

[sMASH]

in islam there is normal prayer, like what christians normally do. u put ur hands together and talk to god. we call that dua
there is also the structured ritual prayer, where u see muslims stand up, bow, prostrate on the ground, sit etc. that is called salaat.
that salaat is mandatory, minimum five times a day. before sunrise, just after midday, just after midafternoon, just after sunset, and at the beginning of the night. during that salaat, the sequences of actions can be broken down into a unit called a rakkat. in one rakkat, u read the first chapter of the quran, and then another part of the quran.
u perform 2 rakkat in the first salaat, 4 rakkat in the second salaat, 4 in the third, 3 in the fourth, and 4 in the fifth.
so a total 17 rakkat. there are also additional salaats and with rakkats that can be offered, at those times, and in between. but minimum mandatory is 17rakkat are performed.
that means the first surrah(chapter) is recited a minimum of times of 17.
just like how many christians consider the gods prayer, this is just as popular, named Surrah al-Fatihah.

1. Surah Al-Fatihah

In the Name of Allah, The Most Gracious, Most Merciful

1. In the Name of Allah, the Most Beneficent, the Most Merciful.
2. All the praises and thanks be to Allah, the Lord of the 'Alamin (mankind, jinns and all that exists).
3. The Most Beneficent, the Most Merciful.
4. The Only Owner (and the Only Ruling Judge) of the Day of Recompense (i.e. the Day of Resurrection)
5. You (Alone) we worship, and You (Alone) we ask for help (for each and everything).
6. Guide us to the Straight Way
7. The Way of those on whom You have bestowed Your Grace, not (the way) of those who earned Your Anger (such as the Jews), nor of those who went astray (such as the Christians).

It all in there and he is right. None has an excuse for failing to achieve grace. Noone with a quran or bible and the ability to read and understand should fail. Because it is all.. VERY CLEAR. If your understanding is cloudy he als tld u hw to clear it up. Pray and ask for clarity. But ppl didnt read that part either, and thse wh did didnt want t try it because they dont want t feel like a fol a grown adult writing a letter to santa clause.

a minimum of 17 times a day, a practicing muslim will be begging for guidance to the way that will lead to god, and not away from him. it even goes the extra to ask to not be led astray, to just just be led on the path to god.

another unique thing is, that when the common term used to say that we doing the salaat, is 'reading salaat'.
for example, 'when the azhaan is called, it is time to read salaat and in those salaat , we read quranic verses'
a better terms to use are 'perform'. the quranic verses are also said to be read, when a better term is 'recite', so it would be more like 'when the azhaan is called, it is time to perform salaat and in those salaat, we recite quranic verses.'

u said that we need to pray and ask for clarity, but we didn't read that part either.
in the salaat PRAYER, we PRAY for guidance, and 'READ' that a minimum of 17 TIMES EACH DAY.

[eitech]

Not doctrine or gospel music but the message is there. Lol

https://youtu.be/oy2rDllbh3s

[bluesclues]

in islam there is normal prayer, like what christians normally do. u put ur hands together and talk to god. we call that dua
there is also the structured ritual prayer, where u see muslims stand up, bow, prostrate on the ground, sit etc. that is called salaat.
that salaat is mandatory, minimum five times a day. before sunrise, just after midday, just after midafternoon, just after sunset, and at the beginning of the night. during that salaat, the sequences of actions can be broken down into a unit called a rakkat. in one rakkat, u read the first chapter of the quran, and then another part of the quran.
u perform 2 rakkat in the first salaat, 4 rakkat in the second salaat, 4 in the third, 3 in the fourth, and 4 in the fifth.
so a total 17 rakkat. there are also additional salaats and with rakkats that can be offered, at those times, and in between. but minimum mandatory is 17rakkat are performed.
that means the first surrah(chapter) is recited a minimum of times of 17.
just like how many christians consider the gods prayer, this is just as popular, named Surrah al-Fatihah.

1. Surah Al-Fatihah

In the Name of Allah, The Most Gracious, Most Merciful

1. In the Name of Allah, the Most Beneficent, the Most Merciful.
2. All the praises and thanks be to Allah, the Lord of the 'Alamin (mankind, jinns and all that exists).
3. The Most Beneficent, the Most Merciful.
4. The Only Owner (and the Only Ruling Judge) of the Day of Recompense (i.e. the Day of Resurrection)
5. You (Alone) we worship, and You (Alone) we ask for help (for each and everything).
6. Guide us to the Straight Way
7. The Way of those on whom You have bestowed Your Grace, not (the way) of those who earned Your Anger (such as the Jews), nor of those who went astray (such as the Christians).

It all in there and he is right. None has an excuse for failing to achieve grace. Noone with a quran or bible and the ability to read and understand should fail. Because it is all.. VERY CLEAR. If your understanding is cloudy he als tld u hw to clear it up. Pray and ask for clarity. But ppl didnt read that part either, and thse wh did didnt want t try it because they dont want t feel like a fol a grown adult writing a letter to santa clause.

a minimum of 17 times a day, a practicing muslim will be begging for guidance to the way that will lead to god, and not away from him. it even goes the extra to ask to not be led astray, to just just be led on the path to god.

another unique thing is, that when the common term used to say that we doing the salaat, is 'reading salaat'.
for example, 'when the azhaan is called, it is time to read salaat and in those salaat , we read quranic verses'
a better terms to use are 'perform'. the quranic verses are also said to be read, when a better term is 'recite', so it would be more like 'when the azhaan is called, it is time to perform salaat and in those salaat, we recite quranic verses.'

u said that we need to pray and ask for clarity, but we didn't read that part either.
in the salaat PRAYER, we PRAY for guidance, and 'READ' that a minimum of 17 TIMES EACH DAY.

When you say the words after you have read them. You say 'a muslim'. I take this to mean you speak for every muslim at prayer has read these words and speak them. Do u speak for them all also who have just read the wrds and speak them at prayer??

Ahh u don't understand what I just asked u right?

The question is, how many, including yourself, speak the words, and hw many really mean the words with a yearning and a direct questioning of God's guiding spirit? It is easy to perform a ritual day in day out without truly, performing the ritual. Just going through the motions. Thus I don't think you can speak for every muslim in this arena as I'm sure there are a great many who simply go through the motions because that is what they were told to do.

So when you say 'a muslim'. Make it a reference to yourself only and what you practice when yu pray and how you practice it. Because only you know your level of devotion to speak for it. And only you know if you do it every day without a true yearning for something.

So when you pray, and ask God to show you what I'm pointing out to you in surah 44 to see the perspective I'm showing you in the comprehension bit of the author's writing style, a new interpretation becomes clear, which puts u squarely on the side of Allah. At least for this topic. And not on the side of hearsay and disbelief. But when you pray on this u must mean it. If you pray for clarity every day and none comes it means yu did not reach the spirit with your prayer thrugh your heart... but with your mouth only.

I only wish for you to see it, and look squarely at it as I have. To see both interpretations as I see them, the one you use, and the one I use. And weigh and choose the one which better fits in with the intentions of the Quran as it was written. Distinguish which words are spoken as the words spoken out f the mouth of people, vs those words which are spoken to come directly from Allah. It goes without saying that thse words which come frm Allah hold the weight over those which come from the mouths of men.

[sMASH]

what is the question, or the point ur trying to make about surrah 44 again?
state it blatantly.

[bluesclues]

what is the question, or the point ur trying to make about surrah 44 again?
state it blatantly.

U believe that what u read means that the quran states that he was switched out and someone else made to die in his place.

I am stating clearly that the quran only states that to convey the rumours and assumptions others were parroting. Allah does not agree with these assumptions. Instead Allah confirms that he did die on the cross. His body was hung up and left to dry until his spirit departed him. At which point Allah took his spirit into heaven. Meaning he currently dwells in heaven with God.

Allah did not switch anyone. Though christ may have prayed for the cup to pass from him, it did not pass. The spirit was willing but it was the body that was weak. And he did what was required of him by God.

[sMASH]

quote the exact sentence that shows that he was crucified... no explanation, just the quote.

[bluesclues]

They shall not taste death therein except for 1st death(death of the body, as all men must die the 1st death). And he will save them from the punishment of hell.

This means, u can live without a body in the form of spirit if Allah so deems you worthy of dwelling in his heavenly realm. At first death, the body dies and the soul goes to Allah to be judged whether he will retain you, or prescribe you the second death. Only when you are prescribed second death and your soul extinguished do u truly.. cease to exist.

This is what Allah wishes for all to understand about death. The real you, is not the body, but the spirit which Allah tests repeatedly in life. In keeping with all that is in the Quran, you are not to fear death, nor any man, fear only Allah. For he is the greatest of deceivers to those who pride themselves of their deceptions. He will make them to think they have killed him, but surely they failed to TRULY do so. Since Allah may raise up the physically murdered to everlasting life in the spirit. Functioning independent of a body.

Imagine you have died, but can still see, taste, touch, move and think. And you are looking down at your inanimate body. To you, a spirit, you are alive. But to those of the physical world who can see only your lifeless body and are unable to communicate with you, they would consider you dead.

To be clear. This is all about the contents of surah 4, and im using additional information provided in surah 44 to corroborate the perspective im showing of surah 4 verses 157-158.