The Religion Discussion

[bluesclues]

I dont see how that's a sad thing for me. From my perspective and my currently known facts. Seems more like its a sad thing for science.

But dont worry. U all will get there. Some day.

[Daran]

Just out of curiosity.

How would the existence of non intelligent extraterrestrial life change or affect your beliefs? Let's say bacterial life was found on Titan or Europa.

Secondly, what if we heard a signal via SETI? How would that impact your beliefs?

[bluefete]

In ancient times, men had the knowledge and technology to get to different worlds - e.g. Mars. That was since lost and we are only now discovering that the ancients were much more advanced than we are at this time.

Genesis 6:

4 There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.

Genesis 11:
5 And the Lord came down to see the city and the tower, which the children of men builded.

6 And the Lord said, Behold, the people is one, and they have all one language; and this they begin to do: and now nothing will be restrained from them, which they have imagined to do.

7 Go to, let us go down, and there confound their language, that they may not understand one another's speech.

8 So the Lord scattered them abroad from thence upon the face of all the earth: and they left off to build the city.

9 Therefore is the name of it called Babel; because the Lord did there confound the language of all the earth: and from thence did the Lord scatter them abroad upon the face of all the earth.

[Slartibartfast]

I dont see how that's a sad thing for me. From my perspective and my currently known facts. Seems more like its a sad thing for science.

But dont worry. U all will get there. Some day.

Which currently known facts of yours exactly?

Let me help you see what you don't understand. You base your entire life on the belief in one book and you belief in that one book hinges on the fact that it is infallible. However, that book can easily be shown to show itself fallible. This means that the belief that you base your entire life on is a lie. I am saying it is sad for someone to base their entire life on a lie, which is what you did. Don't take it personally, there are others that are just as sad as you.

Now how exactly is that be a sad thing for science? And what do you mean by your facts?

[Daran]

In ancient times, men had the knowledge and technology to get to different worlds - e.g. Mars. That was since lost and we are only now discovering that the ancients were much more advanced than we are at this time.

Genesis 6:

4 There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.

Genesis 11:
5 And the Lord came down to see the city and the tower, which the children of men builded.

6 And the Lord said, Behold, the people is one, and they have all one language; and this they begin to do: and now nothing will be restrained from them, which they have imagined to do.

7 Go to, let us go down, and there confound their language, that they may not understand one another's speech.

8 So the Lord scattered them abroad from thence upon the face of all the earth: and they left off to build the city.

9 Therefore is the name of it called Babel; because the Lord did there confound the language of all the earth: and from thence did the Lord scatter them abroad upon the face of all the earth.

lol wut?

[drchaos]

I dont see how that's a sad thing for me. From my perspective and my currently known facts. Seems more like its a sad thing for science.

But dont worry. U all will get there. Some day.

Which currently known facts of yours exactly?

Let me help you see what you don't understand. You base your entire life on the belief in one book and you belief in that one book hinges on the fact that it is infallible. However, that book can easily be shown to show itself fallible. This means that the belief that you base your entire life on is a lie. I am saying it is sad for someone to base their entire life on a lie, which is what you did. Don't take it personally, there are others that are just as sad as you.

Now how exactly is that be a sad thing for science? And what do you mean by your facts?

"Science" and the blind belief in it has become a cult in today's world.
"Science" today is almost totally controlled just like religion ... It has been twisted to benefit the few just like religion.

[Daran]

I dont see how that's a sad thing for me. From my perspective and my currently known facts. Seems more like its a sad thing for science.

But dont worry. U all will get there. Some day.

Which currently known facts of yours exactly?

Let me help you see what you don't understand. You base your entire life on the belief in one book and you belief in that one book hinges on the fact that it is infallible. However, that book can easily be shown to show itself fallible. This means that the belief that you base your entire life on is a lie. I am saying it is sad for someone to base their entire life on a lie, which is what you did. Don't take it personally, there are others that are just as sad as you.

Now how exactly is that be a sad thing for science? And what do you mean by your facts?

"Science" and the blind belief in it has become a cult in today's world.
"Science" today is almost totally controlled just like religion ... It has been twisted to benefit the few just like religion.

Firstly, it's beyond rediculous to even compare to two.

And how exactly is science a cult? Tell me? Do you have evidence that peer reviewed journals are corrupt?

Do you not benefit from science advancements everyday?

It's one thing to say a corporate funded study is biased (cause obviously many are), but they're also millions of scientist dedicated to furthering their fields. Most have no such bias or agenda.

I think you're confused when you say we have 'blind' belief. That's not how science works actually, it may appear as a belief to you but it's actually how science is. We build upon previous knowledge until we have more evidence or make a new discovery. It's a system that works brilliantly. It evolves.

Nowadays it's getting harder to corrupt science or forge results because they're literally thousands of peer review journals and independent scientists all looking to prove each other wrong.

[crock101]

Scientific principles require that we only accept that which can be proven, whether it be through imperial data, prudent testing or some other reliable evidence.
This is the exact opposite of blind faith. while there are people who are willing to believe anything, just because a scientist said so, science teaches us to question everything , the person presenting the case , all the way to the reliability of the evidence itself.
This mentality is not encouraged in religion , for it will open it up to scrutiny . Science is all about scrutiny and has produced the most gains for the most people ,more than all other human endeavors combined.

I use the word gains to equate quality of life.

[drchaos]

You guys are brain washed ...
You all act as if science is inherently incorruptible ... Humans control the direction of science with their agenda's. We live in a capitalist society and every activity is done for capitol not for the purity of science. Therefore there is an inherent corruption.

Simple concept of intention even corrupts scientific research. It is well known a researchers intention towards his research affects his results.
These simple concepts along with lots of others show major flaws but yet your blind faith continues.

You prattle on about how much good science has done for us .... and your logic is because of this we cannot point out major flaws in its system? This is why it has become a cult ... point out flaws and you are shot down with fire and fury just like religion does.

Religion has done wonderful things for mankind (just as science has) but both systems are heavily flawed. Yet you guys feel the need to sit on either side in a pissing contest screaming me and my side are better ....

[crock101]

Drchaos you have a very warped understanding of science and scientific principles that I am totally unfamiliar with. Exactly what flaws in the scientific method of knowing things can you point out? There are several flaws in the religious method of knowing things that can be pointed out rather easily.
For instance , what constitutes evidence in religion is often as simple as a book claiming That the stories contained are true , this will not survive the scientific method.
As for religion doing wonderful things for humanity, let me point out the the bad the religion is responsible for, far outweighs the good it is responsible for, it has been used to justify most wars, rape,slavery,genital mutilation of children,oppression of women,oppression of homosexuals ,murder,oppression of blacks,the spread of hiv(via the pope telling Africans that condoms are a sin against God).
Whatever bad that science is responsible for,it doesn't come close to the horrors that religion has unleashed on humanity.

[Daran]

Religions gives you answers without proof.

Science seeks to find the answers via the scientific method of questioning, experimentation and peer review.

The two are totally and entirely different and cannot even be remotely compared.

I fail to even understand your argument? Is science corrupt because it's done humans? Is it corrupt because of capitalistic incentives?

What does your assertion of corruption mean? That science is wrong? That's complete BS because the objective of science is to further our understanding. When the underlying assumptions are wrong it's inevitably discovered. That's the beauty of science. Something you obviously don't understand.

[eitech]

Let's me jus put forward a hypothesis: Lets assume there is some all powerful, INFINITE being who created the universe, God. Science now tries to use FINITE logic and theories to explain the existence of such a being. Wont using finite logic to explain an infinite being be impossible? If you cud explain the existence and character of such a being then it cannot be called God. All i am saying is that science cannot be used to explain something thats not scientifically based.
Thats the easiest way i can reason it excluding my beliefs and experience from this point.

[teems1]

Sigh

These trolls who fear science so much have no problems utilizing it. Modern vehicles, air travel, phones, computers, the internet etc. All products of science.

Why don't you delete your tuner account and go live like the Amish if you're so sure your religion is the right one. Until you do so, you're a hypocrite.

[Daran]

Let's me jus put forward a hypothesis: Lets assume there is some all powerful, INFINITE being who created the universe, God. Science now tries to use FINITE logic and theories to explain the existence of such a being. Wont using finite logic to explain an infinite being be impossible? If you cud explain the existence and character of such a being then it cannot be called God. All i am saying is that science cannot be used to explain something thats not scientifically based.
Thats the easiest way i can reason it excluding my beliefs and experience from this point.

Well good for you in keeping them separate.

However, having those beliefs mean you're a believer in the supernatural.

Which means by that same logic you should have no problem believing in ghosts, leprechauns, fairies and the Flying Spaghetti Monster (ok iOS spell check just capitalized that automatically lol nice Easter egg that).

Is that true?

There's no way to prove who's religion is more right. Seems fair enough if they keep those views to themselves. But then when you have religious extremist who wish to impart their dangerous prehistoric beliefs on others, you'll see a problem with religion in our modern society.

[Daran]

Sigh

These trolls who fear science so much have no problems utilizing it. Modern vehicles, air travel, phones, computers, the internet etc. All products of science.

Why don't you delete your tuner account and go live like the Amish if you're so sure your religion is the right one. Until you do so, you're a hypocrite.

It's amazing the cognitive dissonance they practice.

I wonder what reasoning they use to separate good science from bad science.

[bluesclues]

Sigh

These trolls who fear science so much have no problems utilizing it. Modern vehicles, air travel, phones, computers, the internet etc. All products of science.

Why don't you delete your tuner account and go live like the Amish if you're so sure your religion is the right one. Until you do so, you're a hypocrite.

Noone fears science. U all are the ones with the cognitive dissonance. The world is just more dynamic that ur one track mind can percieve. You must realize that you only hold one perspective. While religious folks who have every right to utilize scientific technolgies understand both their religius perspective as well as the scientific perspective. You could never claim to be mre knowledgeable because it is always made clear u dont understand what u criticize about religious texts. U do many times in your quests to be cynical appear to be morons in your line of questioning.

Could u be more knowledgeable about a work of art having only seen half of it while the other half was covered? In the presence of one who has seen the entire artwork. Your critique will always be inferior or lacking. Simply because u are not well versed in the field of critique.

Also many times u all show a solid lack of understanding of scientific declarations and utilize very poor interpretations. Thus u may not even be so rigid in the field u aim to pronounce superior. The line of discussion is very childish and does not ever meet the maturity in which religious concepts are assessed.

Sad.. but true.

[eitech]

Oh well, regardless of your choices, we will all die, and therein all ur questions will be answered.

[teems1]

Sigh

These trolls who fear science so much have no problems utilizing it. Modern vehicles, air travel, phones, computers, the internet etc. All products of science.

Why don't you delete your tuner account and go live like the Amish if you're so sure your religion is the right one. Until you do so, you're a hypocrite.

Noone fears science. U all are the ones with the cognitive dissonance. The world is just more dynamic that ur one track mind can percieve. You must realize that you only hold one perspective. While religious folks who have every right to utilize scientific technolgies understand both their religius perspective as well as the scientific perspective. You could never claim to be mre knowledgeable because it is always made clear u dont understand what u criticize about religious texts. U do many times in your quests to be cynical appear to be morons in your line of questioning.

Could u be more knowledgeable about a work of art having only seen half of it while the other half was covered? In the presence of one who has seen the entire artwork. Your critique will always be inferior or lacking. Simply because u are not well versed in the field of critique.

Also many times u all show a solid lack of understanding of scientific declarations and utilize very poor interpretations. Thus u may not even be so rigid in the field u aim to pronounce superior. The line of discussion is very childish and does not ever meet the maturity in which religious concepts are assessed.

Sad.. but true.

Wait, what. Religious people have seen the "entire artwork" because of a 2000 year old work of fiction?

Also your analogy is even worse since the scientific process is as follows. Note there is no room for spiritual or nonsensical clairvoyance which you claim as "knowing the other half of the artwork".

1. Ask a question.
2. Construct a hypothesis
3. Run an experiment(s) to test said hypothesis.
4. Observe results.
5. Analyze data.
6. If results correlate to hypothesis, success. Continue moving forward and post results to peers.
7. If results do not correlate to hypothesis, go back to step 2.

[meccalli]

Also your analogy is even worse since the scientific process is as follows. Note there is no room for spiritual or nonsensical clairvoyance which you claim as "knowing the other half of the artwork".

1. Ask a question.
2. Construct a hypothesis
3. Run an experiment(s) to test said hypothesis.
4. Observe results.
5. Analyze data.
6. If results correlate to hypothesis, success. Continue moving forward and post results to peers.
7. If results do not correlate to hypothesis, go back to step 2.

Great, lets consider the scientific method in the context big bang, multiverse cosmology and evolution. The darlings of 21st century scientists.

[megadoc1]

Sigh

These trolls who fear science so much have no problems utilizing it. Modern vehicles, air travel, phones, computers, the internet etc. All products of science.

Why don't you delete your tuner account and go live like the Amish if you're so sure your religion is the right one. Until you do so, you're a hypocrite.

It's amazing the cognitive dissonance they practice.

I wonder what reasoning they use to separate good science from bad science.

one succumbs to such conclusions or make these statements once they hold to the view of pitting science against religion ,its called a false dichotomy
funny that men would come to a Religious discussion and argue science

[crock101]

Religion makes several trespasses on the realm of science, in that many religions make scientific claims, claims that they have no way of proving or worse , claims that can be easily disproven by the scientific method.
When the claim is made that a human being was turned into a pillar of salt , that is a scientific claim.When the claim is made that a man flew to heaven on a winged horse, that is a scientific claim. When the claim is made that a carpenter conjures endless bread and fish in the middle of a desert , that is a scientific claim.
The absurdity of religion cannot coexist with the logical reasoning of science.

It sure is weird how their God(let's pretend he is real for a bit) supposedly loves them so much ,yet he never gets in touch, only answers the prayers that can be accomplished without his involvement and constantly sends natural disasters to murder his believers ,whom he claims to love.
Well he does work in mysterious ways, it's almost as though he was made up by a bunch of people living in the stone age , who didn't know that it was not a good idea to poop in the exact same place that they ate ,much less know how the universe was created and by who and for what reasons.

[megadoc1]

those were not scientific claims, you are making the mistake of saying they are !
they are supernatural claims ,ones that follows a Being that transcends the little scientific bubble you are stuck in

[drchaos]

Crock101 is a bit delusional ... both science and religion have done amazing things for human kind ... and they both have a claim on terrible and horrendous acts.

To claim one is worse than the other is sad and means you are a drone of one camp ...

Science very nasty skeletons in its closets that you seem to forget ... From millions of heart attacks caused by trans-fats and the cholesterol lie, weapons of mass destruction eradicating millions of human lives, untold suffering of humans that have been experimented and continue to be on and the list goes on and on.

[Daran]

Crock101 is a bit delusional ... both science and religion have done amazing things for human kind ... and they both have a claim on terrible and horrendous acts.

To claim one is worse than the other is sad and means you are a drone of one camp ...

Science very nasty skeletons in its closets that you seem to forget ... From millions of heart attacks caused by trans-fats and the cholesterol lie, weapons of mass destruction eradicating millions of human lives, untold suffering of humans that have been experimented and continue to be on and the list goes on and on.

Ans here we have a clear example of someone who doesn't understand science.

Stick to your fairy tales man, me thinks simple concepts and logic are lot on you.

[drchaos]

Crock101 is a bit delusional ... both science and religion have done amazing things for human kind ... and they both have a claim on terrible and horrendous acts.

To claim one is worse than the other is sad and means you are a drone of one camp ...

Science very nasty skeletons in its closets that you seem to forget ... From millions of heart attacks caused by trans-fats and the cholesterol lie, weapons of mass destruction eradicating millions of human lives, untold suffering of humans that have been experimented and continue to be on and the list goes on and on.

Ans here we have a clear example of someone who doesn't understand science.

Stick to your fairy tales man, me thinks simple concepts and logic are lot on you.

You talking bout yourself?

[Daran]

Crock101 is a bit delusional ... both science and religion have done amazing things for human kind ... and they both have a claim on terrible and horrendous acts.

To claim one is worse than the other is sad and means you are a drone of one camp ...

Science very nasty skeletons in its closets that you seem to forget ... From millions of heart attacks caused by trans-fats and the cholesterol lie, weapons of mass destruction eradicating millions of human lives, untold suffering of humans that have been experimented and continue to be on and the list goes on and on.

Ans here we have a clear example of someone who doesn't understand science.

Stick to your fairy tales man, me thinks simple concepts and logic are lot on you.

You talking bout yourself?

Let me explain it simply.

Science is designed to be self correcting. Misunderstandings and corrupt science are inevitably discovered. That is how it works. It builds upon its self self correcting and improving.

How do you think we now have faster better computers, cars, TVs, internet, medicine and environmental awareness?

You seem to think science is some ivory tower of intellects trying to push some agenda and control 'facts'. Clearly you don't understand science, understand it's value, the scientific process or appreciate what very intelligent and dedicated science do.

To then propose that the Bible or some other book of fables is comparable (regarding science) devalues the work of real scientists and is very insulting. Your opinions on science are irrelevant.

[desifemlove]

Crock101 is a bit delusional ... both science and religion have done amazing things for human kind ... and they both have a claim on terrible and horrendous acts.

To claim one is worse than the other is sad and means you are a drone of one camp ...

Science very nasty skeletons in its closets that you seem to forget ... From millions of heart attacks caused by trans-fats and the cholesterol lie, weapons of mass destruction eradicating millions of human lives, untold suffering of humans that have been experimented and continue to be on and the list goes on and on.

i beg your pardon?

science is about the search for truth in the universe. there is nothing prescriptive about science leading to trans fats, or wmds. Nuclear fission, maybe soon fusion, powers the world.

Religion on the other hand prescribes bad sheit like genocide, oppression, slavery, etc.

[megadoc1]

And to think they used to call religious folks narrow minded. Lol

[drchaos]

These worshipers of the temple of "science" are so naive.

[bluesclues]

Their temple of science leads them to fail as human beings. Praising science just like in babylon. They will never know the truth about their own being because they dont believe. Already being denied, and punished for their conceited way.

Pity.. but each to what they deserve.