The Religion Discussion

[Habit7]

You keep saying that I am misrepresenting you but you created a list of the elements the human body contains and then expressed doubt that they might become the salt compound NaCl. You said this without acknowledging that NaCl exists in the body in varying concentrations and varying amounts based on body mass. It is you who needs to be clear in your language. I am just working with what you give me.

There is a story in the bible about a woman being turned to salt, ponder that for a moment, the human body contains hydrogen,oxygen,carbon,nitrogen,calcium,phosphorus and a multitude of others yet this book would have us believe that these elements were some how changed into sodium chloride.

When you die your body loses many of those elements you listed. This is largely dependent on how you died and in what state you decayed in. But all these variables are madness to you because the Bible mentioned it, right?

Nevertheless, what happened to Lot's wife was a supernatural event because ppl don't normally become pillars of salt (I don't know what quantity is considered a pillar). Thus because of its extraordinary incident the Bible recorded it for us. You now want to hear the natural process for how a supernatural event occurred and I am telling you that is a category error. Also I am saying that suffices for other areas that you don't have an explanation for.

So finally, be consistent in the standard you hold the Bible to, because there are many things you don't understand that you still believe in.

[crock101]

Habit.
Extraordinary ,yes ,believable,no.
You talk of the supernatural as if it an actual argument.
Recently a hindu man tried to convince me that a rock was producing milk somewhere in south Trinidad, my first question to him was ,"what kind of milk was it making,cow,goat,human or hamster".I guess since it was a rock, it would make rock milk,whatever that was.
A blessing from God he called it , now if the rock actually releases a liquid it would be impressive,if it was milk even more impressive,but it still would not mean that it was the result of supernatural occurrences,this could be easily faked.but to this man it was real ,so the real question becomes,what is more likely,a rock is somehow able to produce milk or is this person the victim of a hoax .
I think it's a hoax,but tell me habit does this sound believable to you,or do you disagree because it was done by the wrong god.

[Habit7]

It does really matter to me Hinduism does not have exclusive claims. Whether I acknowledge that occurrence or not, Hinduism doesn't mind. If I may quote the Vedas "meh".

[megadoc1]

crock, why every time habit respond to you and dismantle your claims, you pretend that
he is misrepresenting what you said ? is that knee jerk response to the fact that your arguments are destroyed so easily ? come better than that nah man

[crock101]

Megadoc . If you read what I say , then read what habit claims I said, it will become clearer .
I say that if there is EVIDENCE for aliens seeding life on earth , then I will go with the evidence ,habit claims that I now believe in aliens. This is a blatant misrepresentation of what I said.that was a point about following EVIDENCE wherever it may lead.
Even when he is directly quoting me he seems to entirely miss the point.
I named a few main elements contained in the human body then added at the end "a multitude of others" ,habit then claims that I am saying the body has no salt, again I never made any such claim. Saying that the human body has no salt in it is a silly thing to say , equally as silly as saying that the entirety of the human body can be turned into a pillar of salt, as is claimed in the bible.
If you are to quote me , at least be accurate.

[meccalli]

I say that if there is EVIDENCE for aliens seeding life on earth , then I will go with the evidence ,habit claims that I now believe in aliens

Game of words. I get what you're saying, but the expression here implies you believe in aliens. There needs to be evidence of the existence of aliens before we can have existence of them seeding life on earth. Theists believe in the same thing, just that God created life and we see the evidence of intelligent design in disciplines like genetics all too clearly.

[crock101]

So wait...If I then ask if God really created life on earth ,does that suddenly mean that i believe that God exists. That argument simply does not hold up.

[Slartibartfast]

Yes, that's right.
As for proof, for starters- the cities are still there turned to ash and riddled with brimstone as the scriptures say. Many people have named pillars of rock and mineral deposits as lot's wife but we probably wont be able to decipher one from the other after a few thousand years of weathering processes.

God doesn't buy sauce doubles.

There have been fantasy stories based on real places so the fact that the cities exist doesn't prove the story true

And yes, I eat sauce doubles and I am God, therefore God eats sauce doubles. Any more "proof"

[Slartibartfast]

So wait...If I then ask if God really created life on earth ,does that suddenly mean that i believe that God exists. That argument simply does not hold up.

LMAO!!!!

Hard luck crock... looks like you now believe in God... checkmate!

[crock101]

Let me offer this thought experiment..
Let's imagine,.....I walk into the room and say 100 is the largest number in existence ,anyone of you can say to me ,no, 101 is larger than 100. You have just disproved my claim without making the claim that you know the real largest number . The point is this , while you don't know the true answer to the question of what is the largest number, you can acknowledge when you are being presented with the wrong one.
This was the same situation when I said that the Catholic church is the single largest employer of pedophiles on the planet.all it would have taken to dismiss my claim would have been say that "name of organization inserted here" has more pedophiles working for them.
My claim could have been disproved and the individual would not have to prove or even claim that the organization that they named was the largest employer of pedophiles,just that this organization employed more than the Catholic church.

I still stand by this statement ,the only group I think can second them at this point is the boy scouts of America.

[nareshseep]

Crock101 ... If religious folks used logic there will not be any religious people.

Fwiw
http://web2.airmail.net/uthman/elements_of_body.html

[Kewell35]

Any Gnostics/Pagans out there?

[nareshseep]

Any Gnostics/Pagans out there?

All hail mother earth and the sun our father in the sky... Provider of all our wants..

[crock101]

consider this for a moment ..the earth rotates on its axis , at the equator it spins at over 1600kph.this rotation gives us day and night. if any one wants to dispute this, please be my guest.the earth orbits the sun and not the other way around.if any one wants to dispute this, please be my guest.

in Joshua 10-12 to 10-14 you have the claim that the sun stood still in the sky so a war could continue
in daylight.the person who wrote this obviously thought that the sun went around the earth.

we know that is not the case , so for this to have actually happened it would mean that the earth stopped spinning, which is not very conducive to life.

imagine being on a train goung 1600kph and it suddenly stopped , what would happen to all the people onboard and anything else that wasn't bolted to the floor, everybody would be catapulted foward at 1600kph surely killing everyone.

this is exactly the claim made in Joshua 10-12 to 10-14 and we are to stand by and say nothing as such a blatant fabrication is sledgehammered into the brains of children .
i say no.

[Habit7]

^^^one problem with your scenario, the bible never says the earth's rotation stopped. While there are multiple naturalistic explanations for this, Lot's wife, the Flood and whatever else you remember from your confirmation class, it still all comes down to supernatural events predicated on a world created supernaturally by a supernatural God.

Your category errors are smelling like the color blue again.

[crock101]

Habit I have to ask . Do you think the sun goes around the earth?
And would therefore be able to stop moving across the sky without killing everyone on earth.
I want to better understand you mindset before I go any further.

[Habit7]

Crock you are trying to force a point that nobody believes.

So that we don't continue your logical fallacy, please listen to this lecture so that you understand your worldview error.

[crock101]

While I take in the perfectly rational lecture, can you please state whether or not if you think the sun goes around the earth to give us night and day.

[bluesclues]

While I take in the perfectly rational lecture, can you please state whether or not if you think the sun goes around the earth to give us night and day.

no we have 2 suns. one on the left side of the earth. and one on the right side of the earth. when one turn on the other does turn off so only half of the earth is lit by the sun at any one point in time. this by design is to aid in global cooling and prevent global warming to riddick levels.

[Habit7]

While I take in the perfectly rational lecture, can you please state whether or not if you think the sun goes around the earth to give us night and day.

I like Galileo, agree with a heliocentric model of the solar system.

Also I like Galileo, agree with Joshua 10:12-14.

[Cantmis]

http://nehandaradio.com/2016/02/11/uebe ... alentines/

[crock101]

Blueclues. Judging from the other things you already believe in, the two suns thing isn't that far a stretch

[crock101]

Habit. I find it strange that you would believe in the heliocentric universe , especially since the bible makes claims towards a geocentric universe .you are willing to believe so many things in the bible ,why not the geocentric universe?
http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Geocentrism

After all ,how can god's word be wrong.
Wasn't Galileo found guilty of heresy and sentenced to life in prison for proposing the heliocentric universe thanks to the all knowing Catholic church.

[Slartibartfast]

INB4 Habit says he is a Christian and not a Catholic so he can say they and their interpretation of the bible was wrong while he and his personal interpretation of the bible remain "infallible" in his opinion.

[crock101]

Slartibartfast . It is strange that he would need to interpret anything in the bible,after all there are so many illogical things in there that he openly takes as literal historical accounts.
Talking snake,talking donkey,people being turned to pillars of salt , so why when it comes to this ,suddenly he isn't taking the bible literally anymore.
He spent the last couple weeks claiming that everything has a supernatural source and therefore does not need to have a logical explanation.

[Slartibartfast]

Cognitive Dissonance is actually Habit's middle name. God given to him by his biological father.

[STORM1234]

delete

[maj. tom]

Cognitive Dissonance is actually Habit's middle name. God given to him by his biological father.

yeah so everyone always arrives at this conclusion about this poster in this thread and quite a few others.

So why do you keep pursuing it if you understand his limitation? Didn't I ask you this before? You like beating a dead horse? You have nothing better to do? You are gaining nothing by doing this, no knowledge that you don't know already; you are teaching absolutely nothing to him. Why you don't take all this effort and energy you're wasting here and sacrifice to the Gods of Iron?

You being the man's time whore. Stop it.

[Habit7]

Slartibartfast . It is strange that he would need to interpret anything in the bible,after all there are so many illogical things in there that he openly takes as literal historical accounts.
Talking snake,talking donkey,people being turned to pillars of salt , oh and dont for forget resurrection from the death,the basis of all Christianity so why when it comes to this ,suddenly he isn't taking the bible literally anymore. It is for the same reason I dont call tV6 and demand for Damion Salandy to be fired because he said "sunrise" and "sunset".
He spent the last couple weeks claiming that everything has a supernatural source no I didnt and therefore does not need to have a logical explanation.

I am glad to see your deductive skills are back. Somehow you couldn't understand that an allowance for direct panspermia therefore presupposes the existence of aliens, but now you think that Joshua 10 means the Earth stop rotating, even though it never said it did.

It would seem that yourself, Slartibartfast and former Catholics didnt understand the religion you supposedly intellectually rejected. The Roman Catholic rejects the Reformation principle of Scripture Alone, which I hold to, and thus holds to church tradition being equal to the Bible. Thus when men inspired by the Bible to study the ordered world that God created, like Galileo, made discoveries that affirmed teaching in the Bible, they were persecuted for going against Catholic tradition not the Bible.

Furthermore if you think rationlwiki is an objective source of information you have to be mistaken.

and it is NOT the same message. At one point biblical scholars taught that the world was flat and universe geocentric.

Those who taught the Earth was flat was not teaching based on any deduction from the Bible, it was based on the current intellectual viewpoint not the Bible. The Bible teaches the spherical shape of the Earth (Isaiah 40:22), a simultaneous worldwide event occurring in one place where there is day and another place it is night (Luke 17:34-36) and the Earth suspended in space (Job 26:7). You scoff at the idea that Christians have a bias over the Bible rather than science but this is why they have to, because sometimes science gets it wrong.

Also Galileo was vilified by the Catholic Church for his heliocentric views, but in his defence he stated heliocentrism was consistent with the Bible, not with the Catholic doctrine that makes the church's view equal with the Bible. Those who believe in geocentrism were not informed by the Bible but by popular intellect.

[Slartibartfast]

Cognitive Dissonance is actually Habit's middle name. God given to him by his biological father.

yeah so everyone always arrives at this conclusion about this poster in this thread and quite a few others.

So why do you keep pursuing it if you understand his limitation? Didn't I ask you this before? You like beating a dead horse? You have nothing better to do? You are gaining nothing by doing this, no knowledge that you don't know already; you are teaching absolutely nothing to him. Why you don't take all this effort and energy you're wasting here and sacrifice to the Gods of Iron?

You being the man's time whore. Stop it.

Was gonna make a witty reply but you know what... you make a good point. Time to get more constructive time wasters.