SEA Exam 2021

[alfa]

Some of you guys are mixing up anecdotal evidence of a few cases vs. actual statistical evidence of the majority, and then tying it to race, as if only one set of poor people overcame and had scholars and success as the normal rather than the exception due to poverty. There are entire swaths of the country and many other countries where poverty plays the major factor in academic and non-skilled underachievement which has nothing to do with racial composition (every state in USA has much more poor "trailer trash" whites than "ghetto hood" blacks), but you are only focusing on the few success stories that got to be written and then read by you and interpreted through a racial lens, rather than seeing the majority of the others left behind and have been for generations due to extreme poverty.

You're only viewing anecdotal evidence of few people who were able to get out of extreme poverty through educational means, and it's likely the same percentage of either race who were able to succeed in this endeavor. You are looking at the top academic performers like majority of scholarships/top SEA placements by race, but again it's very unlikely that that's anything but anecdotal evidence of a few who came from extreme poverty, rather than actually seeing the statistics that they were from the middle class and had access to the resources (like lessons, yes every scholarship winner undeniably has taken lessons and some are even personally focused on by some tutors for that top Gold medal) through financial sacrifice of the parents because they want their children to be and have better than them. That's also not tied into race, but rather an income bracket. Some of these students have high income parents too and you would see every year a paid newspaper article applauding their children's great achievement and success at college or university degree level as if their kids were mining coal by the day and studying by a Davy lamp by night and nothing else but their own bootstraps so that everyone should know (again a bias success story because it was written and then read by some who interpreted it as a racial perception of success).

It's actually alarming how you all can view the statistics from all over the world but then conclude that Trinidad is unique and does not adhere to these observed behaviours and patterns because you want it to be about race and somehow want to believe that Trinidad is the exception because we have a certain racial culture regarding education. That is how you are not even seeing your bias. Add to this, you're also saying that the middle and upper class incomes of a different race simply do not want what's best for their children, they don't care about their academic success, and all they are studying is "Carnival culture" (we know what you mean by this). We have many members of our Trinituner forum of different races here who are great parents and provide and push their kids every way they can with as much comfort as they can for their success in life, the same as any other good nurturing parent would. Are you saying that they don't do this? That only one race does this? Like birds vs. snakes or something? By the way, being on a top academic achievement and scholarship list (maybe top 5%?) is not entirely a good metric at ultimately being successful and properly functioning in life. What about the rest of the performers on the normal distribution curve who you never heard of and were never acknowledged by a government grant announced in the newspapers?

But it's easy to perceive that the reason for this is race. That's how politicians stay in power. It has always been a dividing line in the sand as a part of our culture since forever, nay as a natural part of human tribalism in all countries in the world through all historical times. From medieval Jews in England, to the Moors in Spain to the early 1800s in Brasil, Mexico and Venezuela to post-colonial Zimbabwe, South Africa, Jamaica, Guyana, Suriname, etc.

https://angelxie.medium.com/why-do-asia ... d56ed23919

Just one of many articles that speak the exact opposite of what you're trying to justify. But it also depends on if you search for info from more left or right leaning sources. In all honesty the stats regarding poverty and education are probably skewed. If you live in a country where millions suffer famine obviously that will affect the populations ability to attend school and boost the stats that favor poverty. Just like most poor countries cannot access regular drinking water due to lack of resources stemming from poverty and it creates huge numbers in that category. It doesn't apply to Trinidad where wasa has a million leaks thus affecting poor and rich customers alike. Just remember the saying lies damn lies and statistics

[maj. tom]

So you believe that the people who were able to legally migrate to another country and "spend 7x more of their income on supplemental education services" is the definition of poverty? And not the thousands of others from the same country left behind who are of the same race and have the same culture? And now this does not apply to Trinidad because Trinidad is very special and has a particular race that the other must look down upon, one in terms of educations and the other in terms of generational wealth?

And I'm not sure what you're relating with WASA having a million leaks so that somehow affects everyone equally. That's certainly not true. I have to believe that some of you here never really traveled Trinidad in deep rural areas beyond your usual highway route to and from work, and saw what poverty really is and noted their race and wondered why they aren't scholarship winners. And while the cultural stereotype example of Asian Americans' achievements may be a comparable cultural value like in Trinidad, we're still talking about the families who are able to afford to do it, i.e. the middle and higher income classes. If your child cannot afford the resources to even attend school and supplies and equipment, how are they expected to perform? Through dhal and and rice-water? Again, nobody arguing that it's not a cultural tradition that emphasizes education, but you all are obscuring the real underlying cause of underachievement due to poverty and other factors and mixing it up with race. Because that's what you want to believe. It's the easy scapegoat on how you look at people who are different and separate them socially from you, personally, by falsely saying and believing it's their educational achievement rather than race that keeps them separate in your head.

It would be wrong to criticize other ethnic groups on the assumption that they don’t support their children to the same degree that Asian American parents do. Poverty, systemic racism, segregation, or under-resourced schools can all make it extremely difficult for families to assist their children’s academic growth. And this likely won’t change without a large shift in social services and public policies.
https://www.gse.harvard.edu/news/uk/17/04/other-achievement-gap (an actual University website and Social Policy specialist and not some nobody VP in Marketing opinion on a buzzfeedtype blogging website)

[alfa]

Wrt wasa I was making the comparison the statistics will show the lack of water in the developed world is entirely due to poverty but in Trinidad it's due to corruption and mismanagement but people like you will say well the stats say poverty is the worldwide cause so it must be so here to. As to the article I posted it says Asians in the USA make less than whites but still see education as an investment and thus spend way more on it despite having less. If that isn't cultural I don't know what is. Too many people think culture is steel pan and doubles but not the mindset of certain groups of people. Lastly if you only pick research from the liberal side of academia who likes to push a narrative that societal inequality is the cause of every ill so we must therefore support BLM and socialism yada yada you will find research to back up that opinion as well. And btw I do live in deep rural south, it's up north I'm afraid of with all the crime which I also believe is cultural. Aye let me quit before I open a next can of worms, I gone I gone lol

So you believe that the people who were able to legally migrate to another country and "spend 7x more of their income on supplemental education services" is the definition of poverty? And not the thousands of others from the same country left behind who are of the same race and have the same culture? And now this does not apply to Trinidad because Trinidad is very special and has a particular race that the other must look down upon, one in terms of educations and the other in terms of generational wealth?

And I'm not sure what you're relating with WASA having a million leaks so that somehow affects everyone equally. That's certainly not true. I have to believe that some of you here never really traveled Trinidad in deep rural areas beyond your usual highway route to and from work, and saw what poverty really is and noted their race and wondered why they aren't scholarship winners. And while the cultural stereotype example of Asian Americans' achievements may be a comparable cultural value like in Trinidad, we're still talking about the families who are able to afford to do it, i.e. the middle and higher income classes. If your child cannot afford the resources to even attend school and supplies and equipment, how are they expected to perform? Through dhal and and rice-water? Again, nobody arguing that it's not a cultural tradition that emphasizes education, but you all are obscuring the real underlying cause of underachievement due to poverty and other factors and mixing it up with race. Because that's what you want to believe. It's the easy scapegoat on how you look at people who are different and separate them socially from you, personally, by falsely saying and believing it's their educational achievement rather than race that keeps them separate in your head.

It would be wrong to criticize other ethnic groups on the assumption that they don’t support their children to the same degree that Asian American parents do. Poverty, systemic racism, segregation, or under-resourced schools can all make it extremely difficult for families to assist their children’s academic growth. And this likely won’t change without a large shift in social services and public policies.
https://www.gse.harvard.edu/news/uk/17/04/other-achievement-gap (an actual University website and Social Policy specialist and not some nobody VP in Marketing opinion on a buzzfeedtype blogging website)

[De Dragon]

wait, did anyone find out how not one, but two students could be re-scored high enough that they went from not-on-the-top3 to medal winners?

surely that means there are underlying flaws with the initial scoring system. Shouldn't all parents be asking for the same re-grading, so their child could get into a better school etc?

no CoE, no investigation, nothing? silence from the major stakeholders in education (and salt for all the rest of us that need to trust the SEA grading)?

Only men like RedDress seem to be upset that T&T Indos consistently outperforming Afro Trinis. All his talk about the UK and India, but who gives a fack about them? The plain fact is that here, Indos out perform Afros every single year, but rather than analyze what is the cause for that, he focusses on those in those countries not performing

[paid_influencer]

breaking the population into afros and indos is a stupid way of looking at it though. culture is more strongly connected by residential area than by race on the island.

an indo in sando has more in common with an afro in sando, than either has in common with people from Mayaro, Barrackpore or Movant. regardless of race.

Look at sando schools as a region and you'll see they vastly outperforming the other regions. why? well that is where we can make observations that would be relevant, based in evidence and verifiable. and you can do that throughout the island.

breaking it down by race is incendiary and ripe for political manipulation. That "T&T Indos consistently outperforming Afro Trinis" line going to get SEA dismantled and cause more harm (to both indo and afro children) than anything ever done before by the PNM.

[ProtonPowder]

Look at it this way then, with the caveat that jews are both an race and a religion.

Fresh off the academic presses.
https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/1 ... 4221076487

[De Dragon]

breaking the population into afros and indos is a stupid way of looking at it though. culture is more strongly connected by residential area than by race on the island.

an indo in sando has more in common with an afro in sando, than either has in common with people from Mayaro, Barrackpore or Movant. regardless of race.

Look at sando schools as a region and you'll see they vastly outperforming the other regions. why? well that is where we can make observations that would be relevant, based in evidence and verifiable. and you can do that throughout the island.

breaking it down by race is incendiary and ripe for political manipulation. That "T&T Indos consistently outperforming Afro Trinis" line going to get SEA dismantled and cause more harm (to both indo and afro children) than anything ever done before by the PNM.

Disagree, by ascribing the cause of underperformance to "oppression" and "the system is rigged" tends not to lend itself to any meaningful discussion and thus meaningful solutions by those with the ultimate stake in the value of a well educated population, which by the way, should be all of us.