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Dinosaurs Evolved Into Birds!! Really??

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Re: Dinosaurs Evolved Into Birds!! Really??

Postby Slartibartfast » August 8th, 2014, 9:45 am

You responded to the wrong post. I want to respond to what you wrote above but I know once I do, it will be difficult to come back to the question I asked. I'll simplify my question for you

What are your views on Christians doing the following
1 - Holding opposing views and beliefs although they are all "one and the same" (Eg. Some believe in intelligent design and some believe in intelligent evolution also some believe the earth is young and some believe the earth is old). How do you know who is right? If they all follow the same book, shouldn't they all believe the same thing?

2 - Jumping on the science bandwagon (i.e. changing their beliefs to fit the science of the day, like those that argue God created the big bang) If you take the bible literally and don't subject yourself to the teachings of science then I guess just and answer for the first one should be ok.

Also if you want to quote this into the religion convo and reply there so we could continue the evolution debate here, that will be fine as well.

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Re: Dinosaurs Evolved Into Birds!! Really??

Postby TRAE » August 8th, 2014, 9:53 am

OK Dawkins have doubled back a few times on his findings so why is he still such a primary focal point tho? Duane i understand that we've had years to come to where we are but the question is still how can we insist on heading down this road? How many times have science conflicted with Science? science has made some notable achievements- 75% of it has not helped mankind but demoralise a community, extract the animalistic behaviour from our character leaving shells that are dominated by electronics. We now have shorter life spans, health care that weakens one part of us to heal another part of us, sent relationships spiraling downward. whether we blame science for these thing or not, the more "advanced" we become the more backward we go. who are we teaching, when the lesson hasnt been explained to ourselves fully. why is there questions in a static environment where human's weakness is power and fame? If we look at this without putting religion in the equation then we can rationalise any action, put people around the world to rationalise and they wont have the same theory.

I was looking at a documentary based on the ancient civilizations and the theories for them and then you see a point where someone can rationalise anything to suit them if needed. where do we get the undisputed fact- right now no idea for evolution is undisputed because there is no factual evidence. Another instance of this is ---- how do we know when someone is looking at us from behind? can science prove how we find our mate or do they influence how we match up.



you can view at your leisure a bit long but worth it

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Re: Dinosaurs Evolved Into Birds!! Really??

Postby MG Man » August 8th, 2014, 10:48 am

TRAE wrote: How many times have science conflicted with Science? science has made some notable achievements- 75% of it has not helped mankind but demoralise a community, extract the animalistic behaviour from our character leaving shells that are dominated by electronics. We now have shorter life spans, health care that weakens one part of us to heal another part of us, sent relationships spiraling downward.


you believe everything you believe on facebook don't you :-/

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Re: Dinosaurs Evolved Into Birds!! Really??

Postby Slartibartfast » August 8th, 2014, 10:54 am

Also, science conflicting with science is called progress. That is why it is encouraged and has been immensely beneficial.

Religion conflicting with religion is called blasphemy... and well we know all of the good that came from that already.

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Re: Dinosaurs Evolved Into Birds!! Really??

Postby MG Man » August 8th, 2014, 10:59 am

I still want to know where he get his figures from...75% of science has NOT helped mankind???????
Shorter life spans??????? Unless he comparing us to Moses and crew, whatthefuck man???? Seriously?

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Re: Dinosaurs Evolved Into Birds!! Really??

Postby EFFECTIC DESIGNS » August 8th, 2014, 11:00 am

Not true TRAE, our lifespan has increased a lot now than it was long ago without the age of surgery and medicine.
Yes science extracts animalistic behavior from us but let me ask this, is it not better to know the truth regardless of the outcome?

Is it not better to live a life of truth than a life of lies regardless of the consequences?

Dawkins has said charity has nothing to do with religion, and it can even be seen in Animals.
I am not exactly the worlds best believer in faith but I do a lot of good things for people in life and I do it because it makes me feel good not because I expect a reward from god. I help others because thats just in my nature. Dawkins does the same by promoting science and reason, science and reason helps all of humanity.

Science is Education which is teaching the man how to fish. Religious charity is catching the fish and giving it to the man to eat. Both does good in my book but science does it better!!

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Re: Dinosaurs Evolved Into Birds!! Really??

Postby TRAE » August 8th, 2014, 11:16 am

MG Man wrote:I still want to know where he get his figures from...75% of science has NOT helped mankind???????
Shorter life spans??????? Unless he comparing us to Moses and crew, whatthefuck man???? Seriously?



MG Man- to better engage in big people thing- dont belittle yuhself to a gaza rat please nuh homie


Back to the general public-

WHO says:
The gap in life expectancy between the sexes was 5 years in 1990 and had remained the same by 2012. The gap is much larger in high-income countries (more than six years) than in low-income countries (around three years).

http://www.who.int/gho/mortality_burden ... s_text/en/


Certainly medical science changed alot since the 90s yes? This equats life expentancy to the wealth of a location or class
should we have at least gained years of life and the vitality of teens lol...

Guys seriously you think inside the box, I am sure that if I put forward an idea that schooling is a waste of resources only put in place to ensure a steady workforce then you would now say i speak blasphemy. religion against religion is not blasphemy - that was ruled out in the medieval times- now religions can "Build" comparing and contrasting beliefs. only religion that creates images of violence is islam- which in itself is failure as most of the middle east is islam based yet its always war in the middle east. Religion is a failure- it stems to elevate the simplicity of living to a monetary standard. spirituality is on the other hand is everything that is good with seasoning. Evolution is an option, whether it can be proven 100% is not the question- what is the question is what to do after? we already have a goal with spiritualism, whats your goal with evolution?

And oh god fellas seriously you would throw simple morals out the window for a world ruled by money? i sincerely hope all of you are well off so you never have to come down to the standards of the poor--- cause they live for a goal, remember that

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Re: Dinosaurs Evolved Into Birds!! Really??

Postby MG Man » August 8th, 2014, 11:25 am

sorry, all I read was hatte hatte hatte hooo

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Re: Dinosaurs Evolved Into Birds!! Really??

Postby TRAE » August 8th, 2014, 11:28 am

i did translate a section there for you

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Re: Dinosaurs Evolved Into Birds!! Really??

Postby MG Man » August 8th, 2014, 11:35 am


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Re: Dinosaurs Evolved Into Birds!! Really??

Postby Duane 3NE 2NR » August 8th, 2014, 11:47 am

TRAE wrote:

MG Man- to better engage in big people thing- dont belittle yuhself to a gaza rat please nuh homie


Back to the general public-

WHO says:
The gap in life expectancy between the sexes was 5 years in 1990 and had remained the same by 2012. The gap is much larger in high-income countries (more than six years) than in low-income countries (around three years).

http://www.who.int/gho/mortality_burden ... s_text/en/


Certainly medical science changed alot since the 90s yes? This equats life expentancy to the wealth of a location or class
should we have at least gained years of life and the vitality of teens lol...

Guys seriously you think inside the box, I am sure that if I put forward an idea that schooling is a waste of resources only put in place to ensure a steady workforce then you would now say i speak blasphemy. religion against religion is not blasphemy - that was ruled out in the medieval times- now religions can "Build" comparing and contrasting beliefs. only religion that creates images of violence is islam- which in itself is failure as most of the middle east is islam based yet its always war in the middle east. Religion is a failure- it stems to elevate the simplicity of living to a monetary standard. spirituality is on the other hand is everything that is good with seasoning. Evolution is an option, whether it can be proven 100% is not the question- what is the question is what to do after? we already have a goal with spiritualism, whats your goal with evolution?

And oh god fellas seriously you would throw simple morals out the window for a world ruled by money? i sincerely hope all of you are well off so you never have to come down to the standards of the poor--- cause they live for a goal, remember that
what are you trying to say exactly?

also spirituality and spiritualism are two different things.
Spiritualism is where people try to talk to the dead.
Spirituality is where people seek personal transformation based on their own ideals.

If you what you are referring to is Spirituality, then that is very subjective. What guidelines should we follow?
Should we align our spirituality so that we become closer to God? If so how is that not a religion?
Should we then align our spirituality in an atheistic manner?
Is it that you are referring to Humanism?

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Re: Dinosaurs Evolved Into Birds!! Really??

Postby TRAE » August 8th, 2014, 11:47 am

MG MAN MUAHAHAHHAA
gonna post on your page

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Re: Dinosaurs Evolved Into Birds!! Really??

Postby Slartibartfast » August 8th, 2014, 11:47 am

TRAE wrote:Certainly medical science changed alot since the 90s yes? This equats life expentancy to the wealth of a location or class
should we have at least gained years of life and the vitality of teens lol...

Guys seriously you think inside the box, I am sure that if I put forward an idea that schooling is a waste of resources only put in place to ensure a steady workforce then you would now say i speak blasphemy. religion against religion is not blasphemy - that was ruled out in the medieval times- now religions can "Build" comparing and contrasting beliefs. only religion that creates images of violence is islam- which in itself is failure as most of the middle east is islam based yet its always war in the middle east. Religion is a failure- it stems to elevate the simplicity of living to a monetary standard. spirituality is on the other hand is everything that is good with seasoning. Evolution is an option, whether it can be proven 100% is not the question- what is the question is what to do after? we already have a goal with spiritualism, whats your goal with evolution?

And oh god fellas seriously you would throw simple morals out the window for a world ruled by money? i sincerely hope all of you are well off so you never have to come down to the standards of the poor--- cause they live for a goal, remember that


Scene. Btw, you have to take into account a lot of factors that shorten life expectancy, like a shift in diet to more processed foods and impurities in water supplies. Yes, these can be traced back to developments in science but the negative impacts lie with people. Science is unbiased. Theists and atheists alike can use it for good and bad. Now moving on.

The thing with education, you have a point. In fact, I believe I read that education became mandatory around the time of the industrial revolution, hence such a weak focus is placed on the arts. Maybe someone should start an education thread there is a lot to talk about on that. Don't know how true this is so don't quote me on it.

I agree with religion being a failure so there is no argument there. About spirituality, I have realised all the information on it is opinionated. Even this is just my opinion man. With that said, I find a lot of teachings of Zen and Buddhism offer a nice perspective on living life. It's teachings of empathy seem spot on (even with no mention of spirituality, consciousness, religion or God)

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Re: Dinosaurs Evolved Into Birds!! Really??

Postby MG Man » August 8th, 2014, 11:50 am

TRAE wrote:MG MAN MUAHAHAHHAA
gonna post on your page


I have a page?

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Re: Dinosaurs Evolved Into Birds!! Really??

Postby TRAE » August 8th, 2014, 11:51 am

Slartibartfast wrote:
TRAE wrote:Certainly medical science changed alot since the 90s yes? This equats life expentancy to the wealth of a location or class
should we have at least gained years of life and the vitality of teens lol...

Guys seriously you think inside the box, I am sure that if I put forward an idea that schooling is a waste of resources only put in place to ensure a steady workforce then you would now say i speak blasphemy. religion against religion is not blasphemy - that was ruled out in the medieval times- now religions can "Build" comparing and contrasting beliefs. only religion that creates images of violence is islam- which in itself is failure as most of the middle east is islam based yet its always war in the middle east. Religion is a failure- it stems to elevate the simplicity of living to a monetary standard. spirituality is on the other hand is everything that is good with seasoning. Evolution is an option, whether it can be proven 100% is not the question- what is the question is what to do after? we already have a goal with spiritualism, whats your goal with evolution?

And oh god fellas seriously you would throw simple morals out the window for a world ruled by money? i sincerely hope all of you are well off so you never have to come down to the standards of the poor--- cause they live for a goal, remember that


Scene. Btw, you have to take into account a lot of factors that shorten life expectancy, like a shift in diet to more processed foods and impurities in water supplies. Yes, these can be traced back to developments in science but the negative impacts lie with people. Science is unbiased. Theists and atheists alike can use it for good and bad. Now moving on.

The thing with education, you have a point. In fact, I believe I read that education became mandatory around the time of the industrial revolution, hence such a weak focus is placed on the arts. Maybe someone should start an education thread there is a lot to talk about on that. Don't know how true this is so don't quote me on it.

I agree with religion being a failure so there is no argument there. About spirituality, I have realised all the information on it is opinionated. Even this is just my opinion man. With that said, I find a lot of teachings of Zen and Buddhism offer a nice perspective on living life. It's teachings of empathy seem spot on (even with no mention of spirituality, consciousness, religion or God)



AHHHHH i like your brain, it works! good go my homie

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Re: Dinosaurs Evolved Into Birds!! Really??

Postby TRAE » August 8th, 2014, 11:56 am

MG Man wrote:
TRAE wrote:MG MAN MUAHAHAHHAA
gonna post on your page


I have a page?


everything people hadda break down fuh yu? facebook MG man is a Kant page dude

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Re: Dinosaurs Evolved Into Birds!! Really??

Postby Slartibartfast » August 8th, 2014, 12:14 pm

TRAE wrote:AHHHHH i like your brain, it works! good go my homie


Lol

Look I start a page just for you to talk about education.

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=587044

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Re: Dinosaurs Evolved Into Birds!! Really??

Postby Duane 3NE 2NR » August 8th, 2014, 1:27 pm

TRAE wrote:AHHHHH
answer my question too pls

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Re: Dinosaurs Evolved Into Birds!! Really??

Postby X2 » August 8th, 2014, 1:52 pm

Some really deep, extremely knowledgeable and educated people on tuner ! It's like reading write-ups from theologians, doctors and scientists. Discussions to ponder the wonders of the universe, science, religion, existence, the effects of processed flour on health.... almost like we back in university as sophomores. But it really makes one wonder where ya'll get the time during business hours.... most people with this much knowledge... have busy days... with having jobs and all.

I'm sure the plebs trying to read along are happy that google and youtube are still free... nowhamsayin ?

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Re: Dinosaurs Evolved Into Birds!! Really??

Postby EFFECTIC DESIGNS » August 8th, 2014, 1:55 pm

These quotes sums it all up so well, a lot of us can hide behind a keyboard and talk or use ignorance of the masses controlled by religion to bully others into believing what they believe without a shred of evidence.

For the length and distance Dawkins goes to be a voice for the scientific community for reason and education none of us here would be able to walk in Dawkins shoes for 2 seconds.
He is 1 man against billions of bullies and ignorant people exploiting the dominance of religion for sake of money and their own selfish greed. The big reason science is being destroyed is simply because if someone becomes too educated they will find out the truth and when that happens there will be no money for religious organizations. The catholic church was a political entity and an authority to obscene wealth for many centuries and its the main reason why they imprisoned people like Galileo. None of those priests actually believed in the bible in the first place but money and authority was king.

Dawkins is like 1 man with the cure for HIV against a world of aids patients who would like nothing better than to see him dead before they would ever touch the cure. Brain washing is a hell of a thing yes.

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Re: Dinosaurs Evolved Into Birds!! Really??

Postby Habit7 » August 8th, 2014, 2:07 pm

I stand in defence of Mr. Dawkins because I know he would never call the law of gravity a theory. Please stop trying to project your ignorance on the learned man.


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Re: Dinosaurs Evolved Into Birds!! Really??

Postby Duane 3NE 2NR » August 8th, 2014, 2:18 pm

don't confuse a scientific theory and a scientific law.
also don't confuse a theory with a scientific theory
Is Gravity a Theory or a Law?
This week's experiment comes from a recent question, wanting to know whether gravity is a law or a theory. That question brings up so many more questions that I thought it would be fun to explore. To try this, you will need:

- an object to drop.

OK, pick an object that will not break, dent the floor, cause a mess, or get either of us in trouble. Hold it out in front of you and release it. What happens? It falls, of course. The gravitational attraction between the Earth and the object pulls it towards the ground. But, when we do this experiment, should we be talking about the Law of Gravity or the Theory of Gravity?

Actually, we should be talking about both. To understand why, we need to understand the scientific meaning of the words "law" and "theory."

In the language of science, the word "law" describes an analytic statement. It gives us a formula that tells us what things will do. For example, Newton's Law of Universal Gravitation tells us that "Every point mass attracts every single point mass by a force pointing along the line intersecting both points. The force is directly proportional to the product of the two masses and inversely proportional to the square of the distance between the point masses." That formula will let us calculate the gravitational pull between the Earth and the object you dropped, between the Sun and Mars, or between me and a bowl of ice cream.

We can use Newton's Law of Universal Gravitation to calculate how strong the gravitational pull is between the Earth and the object you dropped, which would let us calculate its acceleration as it falls, how long it will take to hit the ground, how fast it would be going at impact, how much energy it will take to pick it up again, etc.

While the law lets us calculate quite a bit about what happens, notice that it does not tell us anything about why it happens. That is what theories are for. In the language of science, the word "theory" is used to describe an explanation of why and how things happen. For gravity, we use Einstein's Theory of General Relativity to explain why things fall.

A theory starts as one or more hypotheses, untested ideas about why something happens. For example, I might propose a hypothesis that the object that you released fell because it was pulled by the Earth's magnetic field. Once we started testing, it would not take long to find out that my hypothesis was not supported by the evidence. Non-magnetic objects fall at the same rate as magnetic objects. Because it was not supported by the evidence, my hypothesis does not gain the status of being a theory. To become a scientific theory, an idea must be thoroughly tested, and must be an accurate and predictive description of the natural world.

While laws rarely change, theories change frequently as new evidence is discovered. Instead of being discarded due to new evidence, theories are often revised to include the new evidence in their explanation. The Theory of General Relativity has adapted as new technologies and new evidence have expanded our view of the universe.

So when we are scientifically discussing gravity, we can talk about the law that describes the attraction between two objects, and we can also talk about the theory that describes why the objects attract each other.
http://thehappyscientist.com/science-experiment/gravity-theory-or-law

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Re: Dinosaurs Evolved Into Birds!! Really??

Postby Habit7 » August 8th, 2014, 2:20 pm

There is the law of gravity and the theories of gravity. Theories of gravity explain why gravity may attract. The law of gravity (like the one influencing your fall out of a building) explains how you are attracted to the earth.

Please to quote where Dawkins said what you purported in the meme.

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Re: Dinosaurs Evolved Into Birds!! Really??

Postby EFFECTIC DESIGNS » August 8th, 2014, 2:29 pm

^ I am surprised you actually knew about the Laws and Theory of gravity. You don't strike me as the kind that knows science.

The real quote is

“Gravity is not a version of the truth. It is the truth. Anyone who doubts it is invited to jump out a tenth-storey window.”

― Richard Dawkins

I am curious since you do understand a lot about science why do you deny Evolution?

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Re: Dinosaurs Evolved Into Birds!! Really??

Postby Duane 3NE 2NR » August 8th, 2014, 2:29 pm

Habit7 wrote:There is the law of gravity and the theories of gravity. Theories of gravity explain why gravity may attract. The law of gravity (like the one influencing your fall out of a building) explains how you are attracted to the earth.
"A scientific theory is an explanation which is backed by "a considerable body of evidence," while a law is a set of regularities expressed in a "mathematical statement." This is why Newton's Laws of Motion are referred to as laws and not theories. They are expressed with simple equations (like f = ma for his 2nd Law of Motion).

Evolution, and most of Biology, cannot be expressed in a concise mathematical equation, so it is referred to as a theory. A scientific law is not necessarily "better" or "more accurate" than a scientific theory. A law explains what will happen under certain circumstances, while a theory explains how it happens."

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Re: Dinosaurs Evolved Into Birds!! Really??

Postby Habit7 » August 8th, 2014, 2:34 pm



Probably it will come better from another mouth

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Re: Dinosaurs Evolved Into Birds!! Really??

Postby EFFECTIC DESIGNS » August 8th, 2014, 2:37 pm

^ But both Evolution and Gravity can be observable.

Just Gravity is quicker and evolution takes much longer I don't see your point. That guy in the video screw himself.
In one human lifetime you can observe certain types of insects evolve to adapt to a different type of environment.

The kid in that video has little merit compared to the likes of Dr Charles Darwin and Dr Richard Dawkins, that guy can only fool the feeble minded
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Re: Dinosaurs Evolved Into Birds!! Really??

Postby Habit7 » August 8th, 2014, 2:39 pm

What brand popcorn did you eat while observing the evolution of dinosaurs to birds?

P.S. Evolution is also theorized to be very rapid (punctuated equilibrium).

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Re: Dinosaurs Evolved Into Birds!! Really??

Postby EFFECTIC DESIGNS » August 8th, 2014, 2:45 pm

Habit7 wrote:What brand popcorn did you eat while observing the evolution of dinosaurs to birds?

P.S. Evolution is also theorized to be very rapid (punctuated equilibrium).


You don't need to observe evolution of dinosaurs in order to know it happened. Thats what evidence is there for because that process takes millions of years.

In the case of insects Charles Darwin already proved evolution of insects can be observed within the lifespan of a human life. The rest only needs evidence and fossil records shows that its exactly the same with all species. Every random evidence they find always points to evolution nothing has ever pointed to a creator like god etc.

I am not saying a god cannot exist I am saying evolution has enough evidence to become a scientific fact and its insane to doubt it.
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