Stop the killing in GAZA-Boycott Israeli products NOW!!

[matthewmazda]

Religion and Politics that's two things i dont get into !

[TRAE]

Richard Dawkins' ideas must be rationalised as coming from a human- have you never seen another person make mistakes? have you seen a perfect person with the perfect arguments making statements that were still relevant years upon years without facing criticism due the it not being concise as it should and dependant on the rationalisation of crowds of followers devoted to that thinking?

To be Atheist and Evolutionist- you must prove that your point is most sensible and rational with proof, how can we prove a point against something that has been the subject of doubt due to the unavailability of hard evidence. we had dinasaurs then we didnt have them- we have bones- and we have fake bones. we have bibles and qurans and we have new found rational thinking doubting the existence of such times and making it on the same level as a literature novel. 2014 and we still cannot explain ancient technology on the most ancient of buildings. But WE RATIONALISE, thats the issue- we fight to explain what we cannot understand.

No belief is rationally inferred if it can be fully explained in terms of non-rational causes.
If materialism is true, then all beliefs can be fully explained in terms of non-rational causes.
Therefore, if materialism is true, then no belief is rationally inferred.
If any thesis entails the conclusion that no belief is rationally inferred, then it should be rejected and its denial accepted.
Therefore materialism should be rejected and its denial accepted.

Victor Reppert

Naturalism essentially states that nature is a closed system in which all events within the system are explainable (or are explainable in principle) in terms of the natural order. Thus, naturalism excludes any idea of “god” since the divine does not lie within the total system. If one accepts these presupposition then all events, including that of thought, must be explainable in purely natural/material terms. In short, all events must be the result of mechanical processes linked in a casual chain of events that could be traced back to the very beginning of the universe, if one were so inclined.

The trouble for the Naturalist comes into play when one considers the event of human thought. Since thoughts are events, all of our thoughts should be fully explainable in mechanistic terms, and not according to a person’s free-agency. But any thought which is not guided by what is “true” but guided rather by mechanistic, physical necessity is not rational. Hence, Naturalism, philosophically speaking, slits its own throat.

Again, if our thoughts are the inevitable play of firing neurons in our brain set in motion by causal necessity then what we think would be the result of whatever the total system delivered to us, and not because it accorded with “truth” necessarily. If the claims of Naturalism are held with consistency, one would have to concede that belief in Naturalism occurs only because nature has determined it (sort of an atheist’s equivalent of Calvinism). And if one arrives at his philosophy not because he chose it, but rather because it was all the total system would allow, then Naturalism is, philosophically, self-defeating.

Eric Hyde


Here is a famous misquote from your Dawkins:
"This would be the best of all possible worlds, if there were no religion in it!!!"

When the full quote is:

" Twenty times in the course of my late reading have I been on the point of breaking out, "This would be the best of all possible worlds, if there were no religion in it!!!" But in this exclamation I would have been as fanatical as Bryant or Cleverly. Without religion this world would be something not fit to be mentioned in polite company, I mean Hell."


http://nationalhumanitiescenter.org/pds/...soncor.pdf

[Dizzy28]

OK...so that muslim thing real hurt u dred..yuh prob real love she eh.

On another note,

I am not sure what nonsense you speak off but if you knew anything, you would know we are all descended from African Apes.

Race, Religion, Nationality are all irrelevant. You claim I am against muslims? dude I am against stupidity and the doctrine of believing in faith without evidence.

If people used "reason" and "logic" there would be no middle east war in the first place.

You are however free to express your "opinion" about me no matter how childish they may seem.

Ay ya yai....ah know for sure you fitting in there..not me padna..i come from ADAM AND EVE...

You saying you are the result of an incestous relationship??

incest is a human concept. Siblings procreate in the animal kingdom as a norm.

Duane,

I agree upon your point. Would still like acknowledgement from the guy who said he came from Adam and Eve though.

[Slartibartfast]

download.jpg

When you support these Israeli owned Franchise ,you allow the Killing of innocent children to continue.

Of course you can't just stop the use of these products...but at least you can say you tried.

Insha Allah!

I know I late to this thread, but isn't a franchise more like a local branch of a international company that a local entity is allowed to lease from the international company.

I only say this because I am seeing some brands that I don't think originated or operate out of Israel... in fact, most of the brands there seem like brands that originated in the US. Granted they have presence in Israel, I don't think us supporting them will support the Israeli community, unless we buy those products in Israel.

The impact of boycotting their products seem even smaller when you consider that the US is supplying Israel with ammunition. Therefore it would make more sense to boycott US products (which a lot of these products are) except... the people in charge of supporting the Israelis have little or nothing to do with the products mentioned. If everyone were to boycott those products, to a point where it makes a difference, the people most likely to feel the pressure would be working class americans that have nothing to do with the war and in most cases don't support it.
Just my 2 cents

[Chimera]

[Slartibartfast]

Race, Religion, Nationality are all irrelevant. You claim I am against muslims? dude I am against stupidity and the doctrine of believing in faith without evidence.

If people used "reason" and "logic" there would be no middle east war in the first place.

You are however free to express your "opinion" about me no matter how childish they may seem.

The Israeli - Palestine war is a lot more complex that just Jew vs Muslims. In fact, even though here is religion involved, it has a lot less to do with religion than you would think.

It started after WWII (about 6,000,000 jews were killed) when the UN basically took land from Palestine and gave it to Israel. Of course Palestine thought this was unfair and the two countries went to war, in 1948.

Things died down and then they went to war again in 1967 where Israel captured a lot more land. They wanted to give this land back to Palestine if all the surrounding countries and Palestine would agree to just let them keep the land the UN gave them. Israel stayed in Gaza until about 2005 before leaving. Then Hamas got elected and didn't see Israel as a country, but rather as a bunch of Jews on his people's land and started trying to reclaim the palestine land.



TL:DR This started because of the UN. The wants of both countries can be justified and that is why this war has been going on for so long and seems like there will not be an easy or simple resolution.

On a different note, the UN causes conflicts on purpose sometimes for personal gain of the people in charge. So IMO they are most to blame. Will post up justification for this allegation when I get chance if people interested.

[Slartibartfast]

Personally, I think the best solution would be for an agreement to be reached between Palestine and Israel where Israel can give back some land to Palestine, like they tried to do before.

The only problem is that the Palestine military force is a joke compared to Israel's but they still want to take back ALL the land from Israel. And now Israel is fedup and wants to end the war. However, realising that a peaceful resolution is unlikely, they are attempting to crush Palestine so badly that they are unable to carry on the war. In this scenario, the ends don't justify the means IMO.

[Dizzy28]

Personally, I think the best solution would be for an agreement to be reached between Palestine and Israel where Israel can give back some land to Palestine, like they tried to do before.

The only problem is that the Palestine military force is a joke compared to Israel's but they still want to take back ALL the land from Israel. And now Israel is fedup and wants to end the war. However, realising that a peaceful resolution is unlikely, they are attempting to crush Palestine so badly that they are unable to carry on the war. In this scenario, the ends don't justify the means IMO.

As much as I admire Netanhayu for his strong willed determination and dedication to country his allowance of continued settlement building in the West Bank is hindering the eventual two state solution.

Israel should go back to pre 1967 Six Day War borders with the exception of the Golan Heights.

[janfar]

If you have not been to the middle east you will not understand my solution.

Just nuke everything and a global issue would have been eliminated.

[Dizzy28]

If you have not been to the middle east you will not understand my solution.

Just nuke everything and a global issue would have been eliminated.

That can be achieved sooner rather than later. The Israelis have their "Samson Option"
1. Should Tel Aviv fall (this assumes the country has already been overrun)
2. The complete destruction of the Israeli Airforce

This would definitely lead to the end of the Middle East as we know it.

[EFFECTIC DESIGNS]

^ I don't think nuking everyone is going to solve all problems I think that is going to create an even bigger problem.

Could you imagine the shame of humanity if they simply nuked everyone to destroy the minority of bad ones and just killed everyone in the process?

If Europe can solve their centuries long war then there is no reason the middle east cannot do the same. The only problem is it took Europe the death of over 50 million people and a catastrophic World War 2 to accomplish this peace.

[HSA]

OK...so that muslim thing real hurt u dred..yuh prob real love she eh.

On another note,

I am not sure what nonsense you speak off but if you knew anything, you would know we are all descended from African Apes.

Race, Religion, Nationality are all irrelevant. You claim I am against muslims? dude I am against stupidity and the doctrine of believing in faith without evidence.

If people used "reason" and "logic" there would be no middle east war in the first place.

You are however free to express your "opinion" about me no matter how childish they may seem.

Ay ya yai....ah know for sure you fitting in there..not me padna..i come from ADAM AND EVE...

You saying you are the result of an incestous relationship??

incest is a human concept. Siblings procreate in the animal kingdom as a norm.

Duane,

I agree upon your point. Would still like acknowledgement from the guy who said he came from Adam and Eve though.

acknowledged.....i follow my religion closely, and i do believe in adam and eve and the whole story of the forbidden fruit etc. in the end, it all boils down to individual choice. if you choose to believe in evolution then cheers to you...if you don't then cheers to you also...at the end of it all you believe what you believe and i will do the same.....

when monthend come...i donno bout u..but is same taxes, groceries, bills etc i hadda pay and fighting over non tangible things like adam and eve VS evolution only was done for my amusement......so lets end on a good note

[Slartibartfast]

If you have not been to the middle east you will not understand my solution.

Just nuke everything and a global issue would have been eliminated.

Yeah but mass genocide is something they are trying to avoid.

It's like blowing up your car so you don't have to spend money on gas. Yeah it will solve one problem but...

[EFFECTIC DESIGNS]

BTW HSA PC REPAIRS

When I asked you if you believed in the talking snake I didn't mean it as a jerk insult I meant if you believed in adam and eve and when the snake told eve to take the forbidden fruit.

Just so you know incase you taught I was purposely being rude or something like that.

I was simply asking if you believed in every thing about adam and eve down to the last word.

But yes you are correct there are far more important things we need to see about in real life than discussing adam and eve on trinituner I can 100% agree with you on that.

[Chimera]

If you have not been to the middle east you will not understand my solution.

Just nuke everything and a global issue would have been eliminated.

Yeah but mass genocide is something they are trying to avoid.

It's like blowing up your car so you don't have to spend money on gas. Yeah it will solve one problem but...

i don't think that analogy fits

think of it as you live with your family in a house


one member of the neighbour's family is attacking/sniping members of your household and then hiding behind the safety of the other family members of his household


so all you can do is wait for your family to be killed of piece by piece or you can attack with full force and wipe out the whole other family
while you don't really want to kill the innocent people,there simply isn't any choice.


if you think along the lines of the doomsday preppers, their family is always more important than anyone else, which should or would be true for everyone

you have to protect your loved ones in an end of the world scenario

Israel is trying to do that as far as I can see.



correct me if i`m wrong.

[HSA]

BTW HSA PC REPAIRS

When I asked you if you believed in the talking snake I didn't mean it as a jerk insult I meant if you believed in adam and eve and when the snake told eve to take the forbidden fruit.

Just so you know incase you taught I was purposely being rude or something like that.

I was simply asking if you believed in every thing about adam and eve down to the last word.

But yes you are correct there are far more important things we need to see about in real life than discussing adam and eve on trinituner I can 100% agree with you on that.

we all have rationale and reasoning...we can all separate sense from nonsense. just an eg here. every religion has miracles in them, christianity has jesus healing the deaf ,blind etc....islam has prophet muhammad splitting the moon...hinduism has a lord who drank an entire river of poison ....etc..etc...

the snake here was satan or the devil himself in a form of a snake so yes....i believe that satan in the form of a snake spoke..... hope that answers your question

[EFFECTIC DESIGNS]

^ I actually understand it much better now thanks. Was thinking it was just some regular snake so I see the misconception now.

[Slartibartfast]

If you have not been to the middle east you will not understand my solution.

Just nuke everything and a global issue would have been eliminated.

Yeah but mass genocide is something they are trying to avoid.

It's like blowing up your car so you don't have to spend money on gas. Yeah it will solve one problem but...

i don't think that analogy fits

think of it as you live with your family in a house


one member of the neighbour's family is attacking/sniping members of your household and then hiding behind the safety of the other family members of his household


so all you can do is wait for your family to be killed of piece by piece or you can attack with full force and wipe out the whole other family
while you don't really want to kill the innocent people,there simply isn't any choice.


if you think along the lines of the doomsday preppers, their family is always more important than anyone else, which should or would be true for everyone

you have to protect your loved ones in an end of the world scenario

Israel is trying to do that as far as I can see.



correct me if i`m wrong.

You are not wrong, but consider this and then tell me if you would be so quick to give the decision an OK. What if it was your brother doing the sniping. What if he was hiding behind you and your wife and your children. Would you be able to knowingly allow your neighbour to kill you and your entire family. Would you think that it is he "right" thing to do, even if you can't allow it.

[Chimera]

in the neighbor's eyes it would be right for him to do it

in my eyes it wouldn't (because my family is going to die)

but in this case, Israel is the big dog. Whether it's morally right or not, they are protecting their people the only way they can.


Its difficult to choose sides but the only way this ends is if Gaza/Hamas is completely annihilated.

[Slartibartfast]

Hamas, yes. Because they will not stop until it is over. I don't know how many Palestine people feel the same way. I am sure some just want things to settle down so they can live a peaceful life for once.

Now back to your analogy. You see that in each person's eyes they are right and the other is wrong. So now from a third person point of view, which of them has the right to pass judgement on the other person's life.

Also, keep in mind that conflict started when the Palestine land was taken from them by the UN and given to Israel. That's like Anil Roberts come and take your land and give it to your neighbour because they lost everything and most of their family was killed by gangsters. So now your cousin get vex and sniping them one by one so that you family can get back their land. After all, that land was meant for your children.

So now tell me who has the right to kill who. They have both done wrong and their wants are both justified.

[Arcmanov]

...and if Hamas is 'completely annihilated', then another organization rises to take their place and continue the conflict.....then what?

[janfar]

...and if Hamas is 'completely annihilated', then another organization rises to take their place and continue the conflict.....then what?

wipe out the common denominator.

[Chimera]

at the end of the day, Israel is protecting itself and it's citizens in the only way they can.


very very hard to choose sides as we are all outsiders.

[janfar]

[bumblebeetuna]

the only side anyone should choose is PEACE!

[Slartibartfast]

...and if Hamas is 'completely annihilated', then another organization rises to take their place and continue the conflict.....then what?

wipe out the common denominator.

Humans. If we kill all humans then there will be no more world wars, no more greed, poverty, fighting for power or land.

[janfar]

Yep.... Kill all humans... The virus of the planet.

[Slartibartfast]

the only side anyone should choose is PEACE!

and backside... especially before Ash Wednesday

[sMASH]

at the end of the day, Israel is protecting itself and it's citizens in the only way they can.


very very hard to choose sides as we are all outsiders.

Aba id correct. He is demonstrating the problem from the Israelis point of view. People from the Palestinian side are attacking their citizens. The Palestinian says truce but attacks still happen. So they go bezerker mode and make them stop.

Although hammas would actually cease their firing, they don't control nor influence every individual Palestinian, and some of hem keep attacking .

But Israel don't business bout the specifics, they don't want ANY Palestinians attacking any Israelis. So hammas need to get their house in order, or Israel would ensure there is no house left.

Ir is unfair for Israel to suffer guerrilla attacks on it citizens just because the attackers are not as well armed. Attacking with knives and boulders is just as unfair as attacking with guns and bombs. Israelis have he right to safety and security as well.

For the Palestinians sake, they need to stop provoking the big dog.

When his happens, then some one needs to force Israel to give back some land

[eekipoo]

That vice video is quite disturbing to see the ISIS members encouraging children in Jihadist operations from that young age. Its one of the reason i think that the wars in the middle east will never end. Very sad to see