2NR Bodybuilding/Fitness/Diet/ Elite Physique Seekers

[dougla_boy]

good work dogg............

same here.....that drive boy........at first it was badmind, now it turn to just wanting that there aesthetics.........

[b18b_turbo]

U need to do cardio and light weights for burning fat....plus diet... dead lifts not doing anything

Broscience.

Everything i have read on all forums tell me to Lift heavy, less cardio.

Deadlifts is lots of muscles worked so it should aid in fatburn right?

AGREED!!

everything is not always cut and dry... for a particular exercise may be primarily for building size but because that exercise involves engaging many large muscle groups it would burn much more cals than non - core lifts.

Hence the reason many newbies are encouraged to start with primary lifts like squats, dead lifts, bench press, pull ups etc... cuz it builds muscle and burns a lot of cals in the process.

Alyuh fellas......gosh.....

#1 STOP READING FORUMS AND GET ON THE GRIND!!!!!! BEAT YOUR BODY LIKE A beyotch! Less cardio and heavier weight is to add mass and mass is MUSCLE AND FAT!!!

#2 WHY DONT POWERLIFTERS HAVE LEAN SCULPTED PHYSIQUE AND NO BIG GUT? These people lift the heaviest on the planet and engage the most muscle. Your logic is like a car doing 9 seconds on paper but in the real world, cant even get traction to pass the starting line.

Newbies start with primary lifts yes but you ALWAYS have to keep doing primary lifts. And no its not because it burns calories, its because it SPARKS GROWTH and develops supporting muscles! Newbies want to add muscle, not burn fat, so starting with primary lifts is the starting point of growth of new muscle tissue.

DFC adamant about saying heavy dealift and little cardio is for fat loss because he read that on some random forum, obviously posted by a noob. No wonder P90X, insanity, T25 and all the weight loss programs that deliver results have low cardio AND ONLY HEAVY DEADLIFTS IN IT RIGHT!

A172 and myself have been trying to say that this thread is only being populated by sh!t posts and to please educate yourselves and post matter of substance. I think the aliens have been following posts on this thread and thats y they have not yet visited our planet.

[DFC]

ogooar dan doh bash meh nah.

i learning, plenty broscience out there.

And i'm not adamant about the deadlifts ,i always open to learn more.

Right now i trying to make 4 days a week in gym. (Sunday, Tuesday, wednesday, friday)

I'm following macros.
(1870 cals, Carbs -257 g
Fat-62 g
Protein ->70 g )

Doing HIIT.
Weightlifting.

My routine needs help and i'm hoping you guys can help me fine tune it for me to see best results.

What do you suggest?

List out a routine for me pls.

[b18b_turbo]

now we gettin somewhere, whats ur stats?

height
weight
age
sex
bodyfat %

?

[b18b_turbo]

I shouldnt be doing this but here is a personalized plan that I designed for a client of mines after consultation, body scanning and plotting figures based on her goals.

This is more of what I see as an overall fat loss/physique regimen.


MEAL PLAN:

Meal 1 : 3 eggs (2yellows, 3 whites), 1 slice whole grain bread, almond milk
Meal 2 : Protein shake : ½ cup rolled oats, 1 scoop whey protein isolate, 1 tbsp
crunchy peanut butter (optional), milk, coffee
Meal 3 : Option A : Sweet potatoes, beans, Breast or Steak, veggies
Option B : Grilled chicken breast, wholewheat pasta, broccoli
Meal 4 : Fruit : Green apple, watermelon, peach, pear, strawberries
Meal 5 : Option A : Bodi, broccoli, Chicken breast
Option B : 6 to 8 whole grain Crix + 1 tin of tuna
Note : Try to have a serving of water with every meal. And keep your Protein:Carb ratio 1:1 or even protein a bit higher than carbs and use fibre to fulfill your hunger.


TRAINING REGIMEN:

DAY 1 : LEGS
Barbell Squats - 5 x 25, 20, 20, 15, 15 (start with bar alone and add weight each set)
Leg Press - 4 x 20, 20, 15, 15 (start with 2 plates a side)
Leg Extension - 4 x 30, 20, 20, 15
Outer Abductors - 4 x 15 or Glute machine - 4 x15
Lying Ham Curl - 4 x 20, 15, 15, 12
Stiff Leg Deadlift - 12 (30lbs), 12 (40 lbs), 12 (50 lbs)

DAY 2 : CARDIO/SHOULDERS/ARMS
40 mins brisk walk/jog on incline treadmill
Shoulders
Shoulder Press - 4 x 15, 15, 12, 12
Lateral Raises - 4 x 15, 15, 12, 12
Frontal Raises - 4 x 15, 15, 12, 12
Upright Rows - 4 x 15, 15, 12,12
Shrugs

Tricep
Close grip bench press - 4 x 20, 20, 15, 12
Kick Backs - 4 x 15, 12, 12, 10
Overhead D/B Press - 3 x 20, 15, 15

Bicep
Barbell Curls - 4 x 20, 15, 12, 10
Cable Curls - 4 x 20 (close grip)
Hammer Curls - 4 x 20, 15, 15, 12

Finish with crunches and leg raises


DAY 3 : CHEST/BACK (superset workout)

Dumbell Bench Press --> Barbell Rows (20, 15, 15, 12)
Chest Press Machine --> Seated Cable Row (20, 15, 15, 12)
Flat Flyes --> Lateral Pulldown (20, 15, 15, 12)
Dumbell Pullover --> Straight Arm Pressdown (20, 15, 15, 12)

DEADLIFT (OPTIONAL)

Finish with crunches and leg raises



We recommend that you stick with this workout regimen for a period of 8 to 10 weeks before making changes.

the person could only go to the gym 3 days a week

[AllTrac]

1870cals lifting 4 days a week and doing hiit? Good night sweet testosterone and thyroid function.

[sharkman121]

ill still go through and show why i disagree with you, not in hopes to change your mind but to show you how i see it.

It seems in your opinion, cardio is the only way to burn fat. Im saying fat can be burnt by doing compound movements right...

Since fat loss is measured by calories in vs calories out, one would try be in a caloric deficit with regards to nutrition. Doing weight training can and has been a method used by many including myslef to burn fat by simply upping the intensity and shortening the rest periods. This as a matter of fact is what helped me lose 40+ pounds of fat. I hated doing cardio and doing this worked QUITE efficiently for me.

Powerlifters look the way they do BECAUSE OF THEIR DIET!!! they are not in a caloric deficit! also the more size they have is the more strength they have.. when i lost a lot of size i also lost a lot of strength as well.

Also according to your statement, it seems you cannot spark muscle growth and burn fat? Muscle and fat are two separate entities.

Therefore if someone wants to burn fat lets say via dead lifts, youre saying this is not possible? Altering the weight, reps and rest periods to simulate high intensity cardio circuit-like training coupled with a proper diet you are saying will not help burn fat at an alarming rate?
Mind you no one said that this would be the holy grail of fat burning methods.

P90X, INsanity etc all burn fat also because they incorporate high intensity training and muscle confusion tactics etc in a cardio state... this is no reason to believe that fat burning cant be achieved any other way...im living proof.

Now i dont limit myself to reading one forum, i have a passion for reading and research....all i do is read, different sources, sites etc and i take everything i read with a grain of salt. This does not make me all knowing... it just makes me have an opinion.

Newbies start with primary lifts yes but you ALWAYS have to keep doing primary lifts. And no its not because it burns calories, its because it SPARKS GROWTH and develops supporting muscles! Newbies want to add muscle, not burn fat, so starting with primary lifts is the starting point of growth of new muscle tissue.

you make this statement but newbies join gym for different reasons, some may be primarily to gain muscle, some may be primarily to burn fat. And....they dont do compound movements primarily to burn fat, they do it because it engages the most muscle groups, as a side effect however the larger muscle groups you engage the more calories are spent....simple logic right?

So im basically saying if one wanted to, exercises can be manipulated to speed up fat loss also and not JUST muscle growth.

no one is a guru and we'll always have opposing views...

[b18b_turbo]

fat loss is a function is metabolism vs caloric intake.

Boosting metabolism is the holy grail of fat loss. weight training does not boost metabolism anywhere near to what it is supposed to be for fat loss.

because it engages the most muscle groups, as a side effect however the larger muscle groups you engage the more calories are spent....simple logic right?

No, its not simple logic, its not about engagement, its about how you engage, for how long you engage and knowing what exercises to do, when to do it, how to do it and what to do next.

Cardio does not really tone you, thats why people who do weight loss programs do weights....to tone......they do more cardio which boosts metabolism which burns fat.... they do not do weight training to lose fat, wont work.


For crying out loud, even bodybuilders who do high volume, high intensity weight training from deadlifts go back still do cardio to keep lean! if what u r saying is correct, why even bother to do cardio?


So if i bench presd 50 reps, 5 sets twice a week, would that cause me to get a shredded chest?

[DFC]

now we gettin somewhere, whats ur stats?

height - 6ft 2"
weight- 280lbs ( put on 40+lbs this year)
age- 27
sex- M
bodyfat %- 30%

?

1870cals lifting 4 days a week and doing hiit? Good night sweet testosterone and thyroid function.

What do you suggest?

I'm following this according to Myfitnesspal and also from reading forums.

[DFC]

with regards to Cardio, you stated 40 mins on the incline treadmill.

what about the bike /spins/eliptical.

[sharkman121]

No, its not simple logic, its not about engagement, its about how you engage, for how long you engage and knowing what exercises to do, when to do it, how to do it and what to do next.

Yes i agree fully, ive stated its about the manipulation of a combination of exercises, weights and reps

Cardio does not really tone you, thats why people who do weight loss programs do weights....to tone......they do more cardio which boosts metabolism which burns fat.... they do not do weight training to lose fat, wont work.
Now notice i always stay away from using the word tone eh, you'd be hard pressed to ever find me using that word here.

You still say weight training to lose fat WONT WORK... now i wont doubt that there are better ways yes...but you going on quite a stretch there saying it wont work where i have plenty of proof it does....like i said, including myself. Again Its what you do and how you do it...manipulation of weights, high intensity, low rest periods etc

For crying out loud, even bodybuilders who do high volume, high intensity weight training from deadlifts go back still do cardio to keep lean! if what u r saying is correct, why even bother to do cardio?

Correct, there are many aesthetic body builders who swear they dont do a shred of cardio... thats correct..i said they dont do cardio, they just..for the want of a better phrase.. "lift weights faster"
Now dont get me wrong i aint advocating this for anybody to do, but im just saying it can be done

So if i bench presd 50 reps, 5 sets twice a week, would that cause me to get a shredded chest?

working out one muscle group will do very little to achieve such, we both know theres no spot removal of fat, therefore an overall training pattern of full body muscle groups supplemented with a proper diet of course would go a longer way to achieving muscle growth and fat burning

now you dont have to agree with me yunno, i not looking for validation i already know it works

ill post a youtube vid later wen i get home to give a better visual representation of what im talking about

[EXODUS]

Lol u may get a chest like arnie....

Differences of opinions aside, there r 3 separate factors when hitting the gym as i see it. Yes you can combine two and then some but its 3 separate factors wrt my point..

1 - To build muscle
2 - FATloss
3 - WEIGHTloss

Nb. Fatloss and weightloss isnt the same. I agree with both sharky n b... Using compound movements but in relation 2 deadlifts as this was the primary point of dfc's conversation, induces the most sweat when i do a back workout. Y? It involves multiple muscles so i think it can be used for all 3 points above but as B said, application when, where, how is critical... So is the diet, as Sharkie said. There r more than 1 way to skin a cattle and not every human body is the same so what may work for some (sharkies fatloss scenario wrt compund lifts) MAY NOT work for others....just like supplements. it's either you HIT or MISS. then there's genetics.....

HOW COME MARIUSZ PUDZIANOWSKI looks the way he does? hmmm...cardio + diet + weights!

i was reading/viewing videos abt this DNAFIT package that you send your saliva sample to a lab and they conduct tests and evaluate what stimulation your body responds to best, hence saves you from guessing what you should do in and out of the gym! check it out on youtube and the website!

i am of the OPINION that COMPOUND LIFTS coupled with CARDIO and method of application IS USEFUL for MUSCLEBUILDING, FAT LOSS and WEIGHTLOSS, not just one or the other... high intensity in the gym sheds calories yes but the time on the treadmill just polishes that physique... consider HIIT...seems to be making all sorts of waves these days wrt FATloss/Weightloss.
evaluate yourself, eat right, train hard and do your abs/cardio and welcome the new gainz...both in the muscle and fat loss department...

[A172]

hmm what we have here is a debate that you always see in the bb world:

1) A lean, jacked guy stating his diet/training methods
2) A fat guy who lost a lot of weight using his diet/training methods

I think most logical thinking people would lend more credit to someone who went thru the skinny>fat>lean stages and actually looks good aesthetically

lol I'm sure we've all seen the many fat trainers/people in gyms telling others how to eat/train yet they're sitting at 20%+bf

and while fat loss in any amount is great, personally I don't think it warrants recognition unless you're actually LEAN. Anyone can lose weight by simply burning more than they eat, but to be an actual authority on the matter, you should probably be aesthetic(visual proof) before saying your method is factual.

just my thoughts, carry on lads.

[b18b_turbo]

well i state diet n training methods yes

[sharkman121]

I understand where you coming from but sorry i doh subscribe wholly to that theory. so in other words if you aint the visual representation of the peak of aesthetics basically yuh have no say?

Also nobody here aint the authority on anything despite body composition, we all fans of fitness working toward a better body.

[A172]

if you aint the visual representation of the peak of aesthetics basically yuh have no say?

yes.

would you listen to the "trainer" in your gym with a big belly and moobs on how to diet/train to get shredded?

[sharkman121]

if you aint the visual representation of the peak of aesthetics basically yuh have no say?

yes.

would you listen to the "trainer" in your gym with a big belly and moobs on how to diet/train to get shredded?

Like i say... i understand where you coming from, buh i doh subscribe wholly to that theory.
Yr example is an extreme end of the spectrum though.

[A172]

what extreme about it? tell us your pov

[kjaglal76]

if you aint the visual representation of the peak of aesthetics basically yuh have no say?

yes.

would you listen to the "trainer" in your gym with a big belly and moobs on how to diet/train to get shredded?

Like i say... i understand where you coming from, buh i doh subscribe wholly to that theory.
Yr example is an extreme end of the spectrum though.

sog impairing your judgement pal

[b18b_turbo]

For crying out loud, even bodybuilders who do high volume, high intensity weight training from deadlifts go back still do cardio to keep lean! if what u r saying is correct, why even bother to do cardio?

Correct, there are many aesthetic body builders who swear they dont do a shred of cardio... thats correct..i said they dont do cardio, they just..for the want of a better phrase.. "lift weights faster"
Now dont get me wrong i aint advocating this for anybody to do, but im just saying it can be done

Huh?

Which bodybuilder says that they dont do cardio to shred but just "lifts weights faster"? ......

sounds alien to me

im in disbelief with that one

[VexXx Dogg]

if you aint the visual representation of the peak of aesthetics basically yuh have no say?

yes.

would you listen to the "trainer" in your gym with a big belly and moobs on how to diet/train to get shredded?

I diSOGgree.

Plenty trainers today were killer bodybuilders 10-20 years ago, but time takes a toll. They aint in the same form, some of them lost the battle of the bulge, but they bring major experience to the table. Aesthetics requires heavy maintenance!

I'd rather be trained by these guys than someone who in ripping form due to roids and three years of training.

[A172]

not talking about old farts

[meccalli]

I always believe in time under tension, as a non iron user, I can still keep my workouts in a 7-12 rep range by varying leverage and the pace of the motion. I personally, always lose significant weight coming back from an off period without cardio on a bigger diet. Big 3 for me are one armed pushups, pullups and pistol squats. They work the entire body and generate alot of tension, so i would vouch for that concept of recruiting large muscle groups defintely helps with weight loss in a big way somehow indirectly, but as mentioned before weightloss is essentially cals in=cals out, you don't need to work out to lose weight if you do it right.

[EXODUS]

you don't need to work out to lose weight if you do it right.

you can loose weight, yes, but your just gonna be a skinny mofo with a pot belly... gotta do sum bout that fat and not just the loosing bodyweight....nomsayin....

wait nah is loosing WEIGHT or loosing FAT we tlkin about? i lost... too much soggy feelings being toted pon ze ched

[sharkman121]

This is just one of many many many vids online which shows how to burn fat through weight training via manipulating lactic acid.

A simply google search alone "can you burn fat without cardio" turned up hundred of results. Peruse to your leisure, free your mind and dont just believe because you learnt one thing thats how it is.

If it was so the world woulda still be forkin flat.

[sharkman121]

if you aint the visual representation of the peak of aesthetics basically yuh have no say?

yes.

would you listen to the "trainer" in your gym with a big belly and moobs on how to diet/train to get shredded?

i talking bout ppl in the ched here, obviously you'll have ppl more defined than others for whatever reasons, they train harder, they started training before, supplements, genetics or whatever.... my point is just because of this doesnt mean one aesthetic body has more knowledge or greater say simply because of this...all of us are at different paths.

[sharkman121]

sog impairing your judgement pal

faglal srsly?



this is wha talkin to me bout sog?

[meccalli]

Well lets consider it on a starving basis, if you don't eat, you'll lose your glycogen stores, your subcutaneous fat reserves, visceral and then muscle. Alot of what people think is muscle loss, is actually glycogen and water stored in muscle(recall the composition of muscle). That residual potbelly is more often than not, the result of a weak core/transverse abdominal and maybe some visceral fat-that a alot of skinny, unhealthy eating guys have. I think the body reacts both physically and on a psychological state and remember reading somewhere about how the body adapts for specific activity. Rockclimbers will tell you how weight falls off of them once they get into it big time, extra fat simply hinders that nature of sport and this could be an out there theory.

[sharkman121]

I always believe in time under tension, as a non iron user, I can still keep my workouts in a 7-12 rep range by varying leverage and the pace of the motion. I personally, always lose significant weight coming back from an off period without cardio on a bigger diet. Big 3 for me are one armed pushups, pullups and pistol squats. They work the entire body and generate alot of tension, so i would vouch for that concept of recruiting large muscle groups defintely helps with weight loss in a big way somehow indirectly, but as mentioned before weightloss is essentially cals in=cals out, you don't need to work out to lose weight if you do it right.

well said....


sometimes men so set in they ways they refuse to even consider any new theory thrown their way and immediately shut it down...

...as being alien

...or u doh hava ripped six pack therefore you hadda be torkin sheit

[A172]

i talking bout ppl in the ched here, obviously you'll have ppl more defined than others for whatever reasons, they train harder, they started training before, supplements, genetics or whatever.... my point is just because of this doesnt mean one aesthetic body has more knowledge or greater say simply because of this...all of us are at different paths.

what different paths? isn't the point of fat loss from a bb perspective losing fat till you're shredded?