The Religion Discussion

[nareshseep]

MG good video dey bruddah...

[nareshseep]

[RBphoto]

Q: What was the first church to incorporate a gym on their premises?

A: The church of the immaculate body of Christ.

[Habit7]

1621687_837550956261251_2092054993_n.png

Oh cool, you guys have denominations too.

Welcome to the club.

[Redman]

Q: What was the first church to incorporate a gym on their premises?

A: The church of the immaculate body of Christ.

As a Roman Catholic I resent it

pfffffft

its funny as hell tho

I Think we all need and search for a structure of thought that we identify with....a frame work of parameters that we build our self identity on,in and around.

Religion is just one of the constructs just like Atheism /Agnosticism

Belief is required since KNOWING requires hard proof.

And hard proof of God/Any God existing is subjective
and Hard proof of God/any god NOT existing is also subjective.-reference Naresheeps image where the knows are in quotations.
All of the above -Religion,Atheism and Agnost. all depend on some one else s opinion communicated in some manner...

So that just puts Atheism,Agnosticism and all Religions on the same level.....a frame work of what I choose to believe in.

[RBphoto]

Here is the thing, you need proof to be able to believe something. In the absence of proof the default position is non belief. Believing in something without proof is illogical. Asking someone to disprove your illogical believe when there is no evidence for it in the first place is insanity. Why not prove to me that the Flying Spaghetti Monster is not real?

[Redman]

Here is the thing, you need proof to be able to believe something. In the absence of proof the default position is non belief. Asking someone to disprove your illogical believe when there is no evidence for it in the first place is insanity. Why not prove to me that the Flying Spaghetti Monster is not real?

Believing in something without proof is illogical.

But believing in something is only required where there is no proof-or insufficient/subjective proof.

You dont believe in gravity-you know its there-there is proof.
Belief will fill the void left by a lack of proof...

So we will need to determine what is sufficient proof for each of us.
(and I think this is what leads to the conflict)
Mammy say so is enough for some.
You might need something tangible...others might need more or less.

I think Einstein said that science without religion is lame while religion without science is blind.

Why not prove to me that the Flying Spaghetti Monster is not real?

Thats easy
Cuz spaghetti doesnt fly. smh

[Habit7]

[Slartibartfast]

Thats easy
Cuz spaghetti doesnt fly. smh

I have see spaghetti do everything that I have seen God do.

[Redman]

Yes but have you seen spaghetti fly?

If so...RBphoto needs re assurance.

[Slartibartfast]

Believing is seeing

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

1621687_837550956261251_2092054993_n.png

Oh cool, you guys have denominations too.

Welcome to the club.

a description that categorises something hardly makes it a religious denomination. A little bit again you will call people who like to wear red t-shirts on a Tuesday a denomination different from the ones who have no preference of what they where and when they wear it!

Also I thought you followed a non-denominational version of Christianity?

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

Religion is just one of the constructs just like Atheism /Agnosticism

Belief is required since KNOWING requires hard proof.

And hard proof of God/Any God existing is subjective
and Hard proof of God/any god NOT existing is also subjective.-reference Naresheeps image where the knows are in quotations.
All of the above -Religion,Atheism and Agnost. all depend on some one else s opinion communicated in some manner...

So that just puts Atheism,Agnosticism and all Religions on the same level.....a frame work of what I choose to believe in.

except that religion is based on specific teachings, doctrine and dogma, where as atheism and agnosticism are not religions. They are just a lack of belief or lack of preference.

A lack of preference isn't a preference

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

this video is all based on "science can't explain it, therefore God did it"

[Redman]

but its still a choice of what to believe in the absence of proof....We all guessing here based on what we feel is the right fit for us as individuals,as parents etc.
Or what we feel has been proven...if you feel that nothing has been proven and you remain open then that remains your choice.

[Habit7]

a description that categorises something hardly makes it a religious denomination. A little bit again you will call people who like to wear red t-shirts on a Tuesday a denomination different from the ones who have no preference of what they where and when they wear it!

Also I thought you followed a non-denominational version of Christianity?

No, categorizing subsets of ppl holding the same theology is a denomination. What does ppl clothes preference have to do with denomination? Poor syllogism Duane.

I never said I was non-denominational, that's why I said welcome to the club.

this video is all based on "science can't explain it, therefore God did it"

Did you and I watch the same video? It dealt with making evidence claims, whether historical or scientific. Can you point to which segment strong emphasizes your assumption?

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

a description that categorises something hardly makes it a religious denomination. A little bit again you will call people who like to wear red t-shirts on a Tuesday a denomination different from the ones who have no preference of what they where and when they wear it!

Also I thought you followed a non-denominational version of Christianity?

No, categorizing subsets of ppl holding the same theology is a denomination. What does ppl clothes preference have to do with denomination? Poor syllogism Duane.

how is NOT believing in something a theology?

Is it denomination to not believe in the tooth fairy? What if I only not believed in scientology, is that a denomination?

I never said I was non-denominational, that's why I said welcome to the club.

oh! I thought you or megadoc1 said it somewhere. What denomination of Christianity are you?

this video is all based on "science can't explain it, therefore God did it"

Did you and I watch the same video? It dealt with making evidence claims, whether historical or scientific. Can you point to which segment strong emphasizes your assumption?

it assumes the premise that the bible claims of resurrection should be sufficient evidence for science to accept.

[Habit7]

Not believing in God is a theology view. A shallow one but one nonetheless.

Evangelical.

The resurrection is a historical claim not a scientific one. We can't validate historic events with solely with science, we can however infer base on current observations. To disprove the resurrection you need to invalidate the historical evidence and/or offer stronger historical evidence. No "science can't explain it, God did it" straw man.

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

Not believing in God is a theology view.

theology is not required for one to be an atheist

[Habit7]

OCTOBER 23, 2013

5 facts about atheists

BY MICHAEL LIPKA

Estimating the number of atheists in the U.S. is complex. Some adults who describe themselves as atheists also say they do believe in God or a universal spirit, according to Pew Research Center surveys. At the same time, some people who identify with a religion (e.g., say they are Protestant, Catholic or Jewish) say they do not believe in God.  The debate over the definition and identity of atheists came up recently during Oprah Winfrey’s interview with Diana Nyad, a self-identified atheist who recently gained attention for her Cuba-to-Florida open swim.

Here’s what we know about self-described atheists and their beliefs:

1) The number of people who identify themselves as atheists in the United States has been rising, modestly but steadily, in recent years. Our aggregateddata from 2012 show that 2.4% of American adults say they are atheists when asked about their religious identity, up from 1.6% in 2007.

2) Atheists, in general, are more likely to be male and younger than the overall population; 67% are men, and 38% are ages 18-29 (compared with 22% of all U.S. adults). About four-in-ten atheists (43%) have a college degree, compared with 29% of the general public.

3) Although the literal definition of “atheist” is “a person who believes that God does not exist,” according to the Merriam-Webster dictionary, 14% of those who call themselves atheists also say they believe in God or a universal spirit. That includes 5% who say they are “absolutely certain” about the existence of God or a universal spirit. Alternatively, there are many people who fit the dictionary definition of “atheist” but do not call themselves atheists. More Americans say they do not believe in God or a universal spirit (7%) than say they are atheists (2.4%).

4) Not all atheists see a contradiction between atheism and spirituality. A quarter (26%) say they think of themselves as spiritual people, and 3% consider themselves religious people. Four-in-ten atheists (41%) say they often think about the meaning and purpose of life.

5) Among atheists, 82% say they either often (52%) or sometimes (30%) feel a deep connection with nature and the earth; among all American adults, 85% either often (58%) or sometimes (26%) feel such a connection.

http://pewrsr.ch/1djDrir

[Slartibartfast]

Was actually going to post that but didn't because it just make things more confusing. Any method of estimating the percentage of atheists present would be prone to error.

Still, good info tho.

[Habit7]

Was actually going to post that but didn't because it just make things more confusing.

How will it make it confusing?

It clearly shows, like the meme, that self-proclaimed atheists run the gamut of theological positions.

But some still claim that they have no theological positions

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

OCTOBER 23, 2013

5 facts about atheists

BY MICHAEL LIPKA

Estimating the number of atheists in the U.S. is complex. Some adults who describe themselves as atheists also say they do believe in God or a universal spirit, according to Pew Research Center surveys. At the same time, some people who identify with a religion (e.g., say they are Protestant, Catholic or Jewish) say they do not believe in God.  The debate over the definition and identity of atheists came up recently during Oprah Winfrey’s interview with Diana Nyad, a self-identified atheist who recently gained attention for her Cuba-to-Florida open swim.

Here’s what we know about self-described atheists and their beliefs:

1) The number of people who identify themselves as atheists in the United States has been rising, modestly but steadily, in recent years. Our aggregateddata from 2012 show that 2.4% of American adults say they are atheists when asked about their religious identity, up from 1.6% in 2007.

2) Atheists, in general, are more likely to be male and younger than the overall population; 67% are men, and 38% are ages 18-29 (compared with 22% of all U.S. adults). About four-in-ten atheists (43%) have a college degree, compared with 29% of the general public.

3) Although the literal definition of “atheist” is “a person who believes that God does not exist,” according to the Merriam-Webster dictionary, 14% of those who call themselves atheists also say they believe in God or a universal spirit. That includes 5% who say they are “absolutely certain” about the existence of God or a universal spirit. Alternatively, there are many people who fit the dictionary definition of “atheist” but do not call themselves atheists. More Americans say they do not believe in God or a universal spirit (7%) than say they are atheists (2.4%).

4) Not all atheists see a contradiction between atheism and spirituality. A quarter (26%) say they think of themselves as spiritual people, and 3% consider themselves religious people. Four-in-ten atheists (41%) say they often think about the meaning and purpose of life.

5) Among atheists, 82% say they either often (52%) or sometimes (30%) feel a deep connection with nature and the earth; among all American adults, 85% either often (58%) or sometimes (26%) feel such a connection.

http://pewrsr.ch/1djDrir

this simply says that of the people they interviewed, many of those who claim they are atheists do not understand what atheism is.

Of the 2 billion self-proclaimed Christians in the world, how many do you think are actual Christians and follow the literal meaning of the Bible as you do?

On another note, what religion is a person who claims there is no God but feels they are "spiritual"?

[Habit7]

this simply says that of the people they interviewed, many of those who claim they are atheists do not understand what atheism is.

Of the 2 billion self-proclaimed Christians in the world, how many do you think are actual Christians and follow the literal meaning of the Bible as you do?

On another note, what religion is a person who claims there is no God but feels they are "spiritual"?

Duane you can't have it all (unless contradictions are your thing). You can't say that atheism has no doctrine or dogma....then call out atheists for violating the doctrine and dogma of atheism.

I agree, many self-proclaimed Christians aren't, even Jesus said so (Matthew 7:22). But Christians can say that we have an objective standard which is the Bible which details our doctrine. So either atheists have a doctrine to adhere to whereby fake atheists can be identified, or atheism is whatever the adherent determines it to be.

Well that is a question to pose to the atheists in that denomination.

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

this simply says that of the people they interviewed, many of those who claim they are atheists do not understand what atheism is.

Of the 2 billion self-proclaimed Christians in the world, how many do you think are actual Christians and follow the literal meaning of the Bible as you do?

On another note, what religion is a person who claims there is no God but feels they are "spiritual"?

Duane you can't have it all (unless contradictions are your thing). You can't say that atheism has no doctrine or dogma....then call out atheists for violating the doctrine and dogma of atheism.

I agree, many self-proclaimed Christians aren't, even Jesus said so (Matthew 7:22). But Christians can say that we have an objective standard which is the Bible which details our doctrine. So either atheists have a doctrine to adhere to whereby fake atheists can be identified, or atheism is whatever the adherent determines it to be.

Well that is a question to pose to the atheists in that denomination.

LOL what? what doctrine and dogma? A definition is not doctrine and dogma!

A person who claims they are vegetarian but eats meat is a vegetarian?

sometimes i wonder if you are just trolling yes lol

[nareshseep]

[Habit7]

A person who eats meat and calls himself a vegetarian violates the doctrine of vegetarianism.

But for you, an atheist who believes is in a deity...who knows you think. I cant keep with your definitions

I like dictionaries though.

athe·ism noun \ˈā-thē-ˌi-zəm\

Definition of ATHEISM

1 archaic : ungodliness, wickedness
2 a : a disbelief in the existence of deity
b : the doctrine that there is no deity

[nareshseep]

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

A person who eats meat and calls himself a vegetarian violates the doctrine of vegetarianism.

But for you, an atheist who believes is in a deity...who knows you think. I cant keep with your definitions

I like dictionaries though.

athe·ism noun \ˈā-thē-ˌi-zəm\

Definition of ATHEISM

1 archaic : ungodliness, wickedness
2 a : a disbelief in the existence of deity
b : the doctrine that there is no deity

where is this doctrine? what does it state? paste some quotes here please. Reference some of the structure. Where is it taught? Where is the canon?

You are of the opinion that a lack of belief is a belief. It is not. It is simply a lack of belief.
Your presumption is that you have strong beliefs and so everything everyone else thinks is therefore a belief, even a lack of it.

Zero apples is not an apple.

[Habit7]

The Encyclopaedia of Philosophy defines atheism as "the negation of theism, the denial of the existence of God." http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/athei ... sticism/#3 So living a life consistent with that belief is the doctrine of atheism. That is why those in the survey who affirm atheism yet believe in deities violates the doctrine, the statement, the structure, the teaching and breaks the canon.

You can say it has no doctrine, or it is a lack of belief but so far those statements all have been emanations from your thought process with which I can't contend. But even though you have glossed over my references thus far, here are some more:

Atheism, from the Greek a-theos ("no-god"), is the philosophical position that God doesn't exist. It is distinguished from agnosticism, the argument that it is impossible to know whether God exists or not (Academic American Encyclopedia).

Atheism, system of thought developed around the denial of God's existence. Atheism, so defined, first appeared during the Enlightenment, the age of reason (Random House Encyclopedia-1977).

Atheism is the doctrine that there is no God. Some atheists support this claim by arguments, but these arguments are usually directed against the Christian concept of God, and are largely irrelevant to other possible gods (Oxford Companion to Philosophy-1995).

Atheism (Greek, a- [private prefix] + theos, god) is the view that there is no divine being, no God (Dictionary of Philosophy, Thomas Mautner, Editor-1996).

Atheism is the doctrine that God does not exist, that belief in the existence of God is a false belief. The word God here refers to a divine being regarded as the independent creator of the world, a being superlatively powerful, wise and good (Encyclopedia of Religion-1987)

Atheism (Greek and Roman): Atheism is a dogmatic creed, consisting in the denial of every kind of supernatural power. Atheism has not often been seriously maintained at any period of civilized thought (Encyclopedia of Religion and Ethics-Vol II).

"I have never been an atheist in the sense of denying the existence of a God" (Charles Darwin's Letter to Rev. J Fordyc, July 7, 1879)

I understand what you are trying to do you know. But I wouldn't couch to the pop-atheist redefinition of the stakes involved. Atheists know that their position who require equal if not superior evidential support than the theist's position, and rather than dig their heals in and stand their ground...they punt to "a lack of belief" and no doctrine. It kinda a pathetic retreat to the land of agnosticism.

Nevertheless maybe the hope is repeat a lie long enough and strong enough and it might become true.