The Religion Discussion

[Slartibartfast]

For those that want a little explanation

One of the main determinants of that future growth is where each group is geographically concentrated today. Religions with many adherents in developing countries – where birth rates are high, and infant mortality rates generally have been falling – are likely to grow quickly. Much of the worldwide growth of Islam and Christianity, for example, is expected to take place in sub-Saharan Africa. Today’s religiously unaffiliated population, by contrast, is heavily concentrated in places with low fertility and aging populations, such as Europe, North America, China and Japan.

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

For those that want a little explanation

One of the main determinants of that future growth is where each group is geographically concentrated today. Religions with many adherents in developing countries – where birth rates are high, and infant mortality rates generally have been falling – are likely to grow quickly. Much of the worldwide growth of Islam and Christianity, for example, is expected to take place in sub-Saharan Africa. Today’s religiously unaffiliated population, by contrast, is heavily concentrated in places with low fertility and aging populations, such as Europe, North America, China and Japan.

popularity contest

[teems1]

So is this really Westboro Baptist Church? Or is it someone posing as them?

They posted an article about how God hates Trinidad...

https://www.facebook.com/882532748454855/photos/a.882613251780138.1073741828.882532748454855/882616451779818/?type=1

[RBphoto]

14 likes only?

[ruffneck_12]

ohhhhhhh this gon be good


Itching to reactivate my fb just to troll

[Clara]

I for one am quite happy with new rise of religion....although I'd prefer these people seek out Jesus than the impersonator Allah....but I have faith in my fellow Christian missionaries.

[Slartibartfast]

New rise of religion? Religion has been popular for almost all of our recent history. The only thing that is rising significantly is Islam anyway.

[Clara]

i should have said reversal of trend, it seems people are turning away from God given the rise of atheism. But LOL it seems as if atheism's bubble is about to be burst when they find themselves in even greater minority in the future.

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

i should have said reversal of trend, it seems people are turning away from God given the rise of atheism. But LOL it seems as if atheism's bubble is about to be burst when they find themselves in even greater minority in the future.

when something is in a minority it makes it less true?

[meccalli]

Apparently so, 90% of muslims are peaceful and loving people, so instantly the 10% that aren't-clearly don't practice islam. Same deal with everything else with belief systems in the rc church etc. Majority dictates what's true. The minorities are heretics obviously.

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

Just came across this
http://bibviz.com/

http://www.chrisharrison.net/index.php/ ... s/BibleViz

comments?

[MG Man]

I for one am quite happy with new rise of religion....although I'd prefer these people seek out Jesus than the impersonator Allah....but I have faith in my fellow Christian missionaries.

oh?
how did you conclude Allah is an impersonator?
And by stating thus, are you acknowledging that Allah is real and exists?
Please, do elaborate on this statement

[RBphoto]

Heaven is.... missing stepping on that lego by it being wedged between your toes instead of on the ball of your foot.

[ruffneck_12]

http://bibviz.com/

This is a nice find, idk how people could follow a book with so much inconsistencies

[Slartibartfast]

http://bibviz.com/

This is a nice find, idk how people could follow a book with so much inconsistencies

http://bit.ly/tl2Epu

[Habit7]

Just came across this
http://bibviz.com/

http://www.chrisharrison.net/index.php/ ... s/BibleViz

comments?

That stuff and many more have been answered in the Religion thread. You copied and pasted directly from the skeptics annotated bible but please consider all are refuted in likewise internet sources http://www.berenddeboer.net/sab/

[Slartibartfast]

The fact that your "go to" authority has to resort to ad hominem attacks on the very first page says a lot

or as scientists like to say: some comet hit something and that's why things are the way they are. That's not a scientific explanation.

This is also golden

the Bible does not contradict science, and when science contradicts the Bible, science itself will prove such science to be wrong, although we might have to wait some years for that to happen.

So all of a sudden bible folk are happy to acknowledge future progress in science.

[Habit7]

Do you know what an ad hominem is? I ask that because what you referenced is not an ad hominem attack.


I said this you last year

So while I love science as much as the next guy, I love history too. And the creation of the universe, earth, life and other past events are historical occurrences, not scientific theories. If you truly celebrate how malleable science is then don't pound your fist for something that can change next week.

[Slartibartfast]

Crap I meant "straw man" argument. Lol. Definitely not ad hominem. But my point stands.

[nareshseep]

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[Slartibartfast]

Do you know what an ad hominem is? I ask that because what you referenced is not an ad hominem attack.


I said this you last year

So while I love science as much as the next guy, I love history too. And the creation of the universe, earth, life and other past events are historical occurrences, not scientific theories. If you truly celebrate how malleable science is then don't pound your fist for something that can change next week.

By the way, nobody celebrates science purely for its "malleability". It is celebrated for its humility and willingness to own up to its mistakes (gross generalization just to keep on topic).

And if I'm "pounding my fist" it is for something that has brought great value and advancement to our entire society.

Consider this before you start fisting yourself. What would happen if all religious knowledge and awareness disappeared from the world this second? What would happen if all scientific knowledge and awareness disappeared from the world this second? Which do you think would have the greater effect and why? Also, which world would you rather live in and why?

[Habit7]

Consider this before you start fisting yourself. What would happen if all religious knowledge and awareness disappeared from the world this second? What would happen if all scientific knowledge and awareness disappeared from the world this second? Which do you think would have the greater effect and why? Also, which world would you rather live in and why?

Why are you pitting religion against science? Modern science is a function of religious pursuit of how God systematically structured the universe. Science can only exist with a foundational religious worldview of order, purpose and design. Time+matter+chance cannot create, evolve or explain anything. An organized world points to an intelligent designer.

If all scientific knowledge disappeared, it would be as before where those with a religious worldview will pursue natural theology which leads to science and results in the many bastions of modern science universities in the world we have today (Yale, Havard, Oxford)

It is impossible to conceive of a world where religious knowledge could disappear. First we have to preclude that the immutable, transcendent, communicating God that loved His creation and proved it by making Himself known to them, will change and allow Himself to be hidden. This cannot happen.
Nevertheless where there has been futile attempts to scrub society clean of religion like the Soviet Union, China, North Korea and other atheist state nations, the culture rebounds and strives under tremendous persecution to exercise their faith in God who is undeniable.

I have made this point several times that atheism doesn't lead to human flourishing, but I guess this will lead to you claiming that it could, without any viable examples to prove your case

[meccalli]

[quote="nareshseep"]

1.Math 6.8 These things dominate the thoughts of unbelievers, but your heavenly Father already knows all your needs.

2. Oh you mean like evolution and spontaneous generation?

3. Yeah, because science totally didn't cause this.
How long will the land mourn and the grass of every field wither? For the evil of those who dwell in it the beasts and the birds are swept away, because they said, “He will not see our latter end.”

4. Yeah, brand loyalty to Darwin.

5. Do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewal of your mind, that by testing you may discern what is the will of God, what is good and acceptable and perfect.
That's why you hate God and his attributes.

6. Yes, it does. Now faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see.
Lose the faith, embrace the 'evil', does it even exist to an atheist?, so no penalties right?

[Slartibartfast]

Habit, I think you misunderstood my question. I meant if it it were to disappear from the world this second. If I didn't know better I would say you purposefully side stepped the key point of the question so that you may make a coherent reply.... I guess I don't know better

There is no denying the positive impact that science has had on your life. Also, things that require blind faith (like religion) will always be pit against things that do not require blind faith (like science) to explain the same phenomena. But you already know that. It's what most of this thread is about.

Also, I never argued that atheism in and of itself lead to "human flourishing" any more than religion in and of itself leads to grown men raping little boys. In all of our cases it seems more like those situations were caused by men corrupted by power... kinda like the power one may get from leading a congregation of blind followers (with threat of punishment) but on a larger scale. <--- possible strawman? idk, so I'll stop here.

The purpose of my question was for you to look at how much science has given you compared to your religion (insert, where you argue with the bible as proof of the bible that your God/religion gave us everything including science so without it there would be nothing).

Oh the irony of a science denier arguing on the internet <--- Ad hominem?... possibly

Anyway, if you don't understand the question I can break it down using smaller words. If you do understand the question then go ahead and reply. If you see yourself being back into a corner where you may not be able to google an answer to get out then side step or just avoid this altogether.

[Slartibartfast]

It is impossible to conceive of a world where religious knowledge could disappear. First we have to preclude that the immutable, transcendent, communicating God that loved His creation and proved it by making Himself known to them, will change and allow Himself to be hidden. This cannot happen.

Lol. Please, point me to the closest God.

Immutable? And yet not nearly as loud as a pin drop

Transcendent? It takes a certain amount of skill to be transcendent without being seen, felt, heard, smelt or tasted.... seriously, MG man passed gas more transcendent than that.

Communicating? Funny my five year old cousin has the power to communicate with me more directly and quicker than God. I won't call this supernatural... kindanatural maybe

Loved his creation? ....... slavery.... you have yet to counter Epicurus' argument regarding this.

Making himself known? To a select group of individuals that forcefully made him known everywhere else.... Ok, I'll give you this one, it is pretty effective. I could get followers on instragram but I can't get them to kneel or give me money.

Won't allow himself to be hidden? Is this about the transcendent thing gain?because I looked everywhere

[Habit7]

Habit, I think you misunderstood my question. I meant if it it were to disappear from the world this second.

It is impossible to conceive of a world where religious knowledge could disappear....

Nevertheless where there has been futile attempts to scrub society clean of religion like the Soviet Union, China, North Korea and other atheist state nations, the culture rebounds and strives under tremendous persecution to exercise their faith in God who is undeniable.

I think I did answer you. If religion disappeared from the world in a second it would be no different than when religion disappeared from countries through atheistic dictatorship. The immutable, transcend, communicating God draws ppl to Himself. In response, ppl seek out God.

Ummm...this is getting embarrassing...

Immutable? And yet not nearly as loud as a pin drop

Immutable doesn't mean that something cannot be muted. It means it cannot be changed.

[Slartibartfast]

Lol, yeah. My bad. Never had reason to use the word immutable before. Normally I'll just use "unchangeable" or "Unchanged" or something. I'll give you that your view as a sect of a larger religion remains unchanged even though it goes against other larger sects of your religion that use the same book you preach from. So nothing to boast about.

As for everything else. You think if all knowledge of science disappeared in a second that people would search out God. I think they would have a problem just learning how to survive considering how entwined science is into every facet of life.

Would you be up for a challenge. How long I can go without anything that is a product of your religion (or any other religion that you feel is 100% correct) vs. How long you can go without anything that is a product of science

For me that means
No weddings (receptions OK), funerals, sunday mass, religious symbols and worst of all no saying "Bless" when I buy nuts from a highway vendor.

For you that means
No transport that uses any form of electrical or petrochemical energy, no use of shelter made from steel or formed aggregate mixtures, no use of artificially manufactured textiles or textiles that are not manufactured by hand (i.e. no clothes, shoes or underwear), no use of electricity or running water and no use of cell phones. When you win I promise you can brag about how God was able to clothe, feed and shelter you after you found him.

The day you win that challenge I will publicly admit that religion has more to offer than science and that it should be the guiding authority on the quest for the absolute truth no matter what it may be. I'll also convert to what ever it is you call yourself including all the formalities like white shirt, black pants and matching umbrella as well as all Sunday meetups for finger foods and shots.

Until then, your talk is cheap. The only thing that you have not sidestepped is my misunderstanding of the word immutable

[nareshseep]

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[nareshseep]

1.Math 6.8 These things dominate the thoughts of unbelievers, but your heavenly Father already knows all your needs.
Yup the imaginary gawd that you think is real is supposed to be all knowing, therefore there is no need for prayers, if he requires you to pray, then he is not all knowing

2. Oh you mean like evolution and spontaneous generation?
You ASSume that folks who do not believe in gawd, believes in evolution and spontaneous generation . There are many types of theory, religious and scientific to name two,,,, If you believe in a man walking on water and shooting lasers from his eyes... Well you have that right.

3. Yeah, because science totally didn't cause this.
How long will the land mourn and the grass of every field wither? For the evil of those who dwell in it the beasts and the birds are swept away, because they said, “He will not see our latter end.”
Religion has made man narcissistic, only caring for himself to get into heaven, and if he helps someone, he chastises them for not following his gawd, cause his imaginary gawd provides to everyone.

4. Yeah, brand loyalty to Darwin.
There you go again ASSuming stuff, seems to be a christian flaw.

5. Do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewal of your mind, that by testing you may discern what is the will of God, what is good and acceptable and perfect.
That's why you hate God and his attributes.
Another ASSumption, we dont hate gawd, we hate when folks assume that everyone should believe in thier imaginary bunny rabbit... edit GAwd.
A good christian should have acres of cherry trees. Cherry picking is a christian favorite hobby.

6. Yes, it does. Now faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see.
Lose the faith, embrace the 'evil', does it even exist to an atheist?, so no penalties right?

Faith could be for good or for bad.
Some children need an imaginary "massa" to keep them on the right path, and the fear of hell to be/do good. Sadly some go into adulthood still believing in the tooth fairy. The spiderman hero is more realistic, because tales of his epic life is in a book that we take as gospel...

Without a villain, a hero is nothing
Without imaginary Satan, imaginary Gawd is nothing.

[/quote]

[Habit7]

Lol, yeah. My bad. Never had reason to use the word immutable before. Normally I'll just use "unchangeable" or "Unchanged" or something. I'll give you that your view as a sect of a larger religion remains unchanged even though it goes against other larger sects of your religion that use the same book you preach from. So nothing to boast about.

As for everything else. You think if all knowledge of science disappeared in a second that people would search out God. I think they would have a problem just learning how to survive considering how entwined science is into every facet of life.

Would you be up for a challenge. How long I can go without anything that is a product of your religion (or any other religion that you feel is 100% correct) vs. How long you can go without anything that is a product of science

For me that means
No weddings (receptions OK), funerals, sunday mass, religious symbols and worst of all no saying "Bless" when I buy nuts from a highway vendor.

For you that means
No transport that uses any form of electrical or petrochemical energy, no use of shelter made from steel or formed aggregate mixtures, no use of artificially manufactured textiles or textiles that are not manufactured by hand (i.e. no clothes, shoes or underwear), no use of electricity or running water and no use of cell phones. When you win I promise you can brag about how God was able to clothe, feed and shelter you after you found him.

The day you win that challenge I will publicly admit that religion has more to offer than science and that it should be the guiding authority on the quest for the absolute truth no matter what it may be. I'll also convert to what ever it is you call yourself including all the formalities like white shirt, black pants and matching umbrella as well as all Sunday meetups for finger foods and shots.

Until then, your talk is cheap. The only thing that you have not sidestepped is my misunderstanding of the word immutable

The first second of our challenge I choke you with my bare hands.

I win.






Nevertheless your premise is a nonsense. Modern science is a direct out working of religion so there is no need to pit them against each other as they all play a factor of life as we know it.

Let's come out of the "what if" scenario and talk about reality apart from what you think it might be.