The Religion Discussion

[megadoc1]

There is no such thing as trinity found in the Bible afaik.

I believe This statement is an admission of ignorance! ,but before going further, meccalli ,what is your view on the relationship between God and Jesus? the reason I ask this is because the concept of the trinity is just one of the many concepts of God suggested since the resurrection , for example there is Arianism,Modalism,Subordinationism and Adoptionism ,if you reject the trinity you automatically fall into one of the four other groups, so why not make an argument for the view you support?

[meccalli]

No one ever refers to God in the Bible as being three persons and certainly never used an all encompassing term as the trinity. I've read it, it's not there. Why do we have to limit and categorize our belief into some term God doesn't care about? God is spirit, and must be worshipped in spirit and in truth. That's my quest and my sole longing to dispel that which is false, examine all things and hold fast to which is good and true to be sure I am doing my best to please my heavenly father.

meccalli ,what is your view on the relationship between God and Jesus?

Father and Son.
While he was still speaking, a bright cloud covered them, and a voice from the cloud said, "This is my Son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased. Listen to him!"

so why not make an argument for the view you support?

and I want you to insist on these things, so that those who have believed in God may be careful to devote themselves to good works. These things are excellent and profitable for people. 9 But avoid foolish controversies, genealogies, dissensions, and quarrels about the law, for they are unprofitable and worthless.


All I can say is just, read the Bible with the intent to put aside anything that isn't true, no matter how dear it is to you. Put aside all of your preconceived ideas that have been beaten again and again into you by the tongues of men, none of which are good. Pray and ask for discernment and revelation so you'll be guided during research. It works for me, write down your questions, write down the answers when it's revealed to you.

There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. For the law of the Spirit of life has set you free in Christ Jesus from the law of sin and death. For God has done what the law, weakened by the flesh, could not do. By sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and for sin, he condemned sin in the flesh, in order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit set their minds on the things of the Spirit.

But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.
10 But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.
11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.
12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Spirit teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
15 But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.
16 For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? but we have the mind of Christ.

[bluesclues]

You making a mistake here bro, Cyrus was apersian king, the son of Cambyses, he lived in the sixth century B.C . He gave the instructions to the Jews to restore and rebuild Jerusalem, according to the books of Ezra and Chronicles. He was prophesied of ,almost two hundred years before his birth,by Isaiah (chapter 44) Alexander the Great lived in the fourth century BC.,.He was the greek.

you are correct. i was in the middle of researching this. i had known Cambyses II was Cyrus' son and was in the middle of charting his place in history from the perspective of the similarity of the name ending in 'the great'. i had found a small discrepancy which i didnt get to the bottom of quite yet regarding the timeline. but now that you posted this so plainly ive altered my search pattern and seem to have gotten to the bottom of that discrepancy.

-both alexander and cyrus were macedonian kings. though different time periods.
-macedon was considered a greek kingdom
-Alexander was considered greek and was 'white' but came from macedon making cyrus/cambyses etc also 'white'.
-all information on the early persian empire comes from the greeks.
-Alexander I - was born in 6th century according to historical record. there is no mention of a King Cyrus in macedonian history of the time so the discrepancy occured here.
-Alexander II - was born in 4th century
-Alexander III - is the one known as Alexander the Great who reigned over macedon, egypt and persia around 323BC
-Xerxes I - is also referred to as Xerxes the Great

matching up the biblical account of Cyrus the Great being ordained to conquer egypt we have the discrepancy that Cyrus the Great is not noted historically as conquering egypt. so bible and history dont quite match up.

isaiah 45:14 says that Cyrus will conquer egypt and all her riches will be handed over to him

this makes biblical Cyrus the Great.. Alexander the Great as he is the macedonian king that did conquer egypt, and persia. and they were all greek connected(white arabs). according to our historical record.

also historical Cyrus the great reigned in persia from 530BC and all his successors can be tracked into Egypt as far as the 28th dynasty when records claim Amyrtaeus was killed in battle by Nepherites I. thus ending persian rule. and it seems the trail ends there.

on the historical record.. Darius I born 550BC and reigned from 522BC Persia was also known as.. Darius the Great

Alexander the Great visited the tomb of Cyrus the Great and revered him highly.

so.. for the bible to refer to Cyrus the Great as the one who conquered egypt, was a King from Macedon, while Alexander is noted as conquering Egypt historically where Cyrus did not, yet is also a king of macedon. i cannot say i believe the bible is wrong considering the information we have. and prefer to believe we have some inaccurate timelines in our historical record somewhere(i will continue to look into it)


Persia as it is called encompassed many lands, and so had multiple Kings lines of which macedon was the central leading point. Alexander the great is a descendant of Macedon peoples and so of Cyrus as he did come later. making him persian under the achaemenid empire but greek after he became king of macedon and conquered egypt. he adapted egypt's knowledge and the greek pantheon was formed out of knowledge from egypt.

so it seems that biblical Cyrus the Great is a reference to the line of Kings of Macedon. and not just Cyrus the great. it would include Cambyses II who expanded into egypt, Darius II The Great, and Alexander III the Great who re-conquered egypt after Nepherites 1 conquered Darius II, and also conquered all of persia under Darius III with the aid of the greek army.




i do say.. at this point i find it a little strange that Ataxerxes v was killed in 329 by Alexander the Great who conquered Persia from 330BC. i find the names ataxerxes and alexander to be similar. ill have to look into this deeper as i currently suspect they may be one and the same as Ataxerxes is credited with killing Darius III of Persia. though it is Alexander III who conquered persia. call it a conspiracy theory.. but Alexander conquering Persia, whilst Ataxerxes killed Darius III but yet was later killed by Alexander sounds a bit fishy.

[megadoc1]

No one ever refers to God in the Bible as being three persons and certainly never used an all encompassing term as the trinity. I've read it, it's not there. Why do we have to limit and categorize our belief into some term God doesn't care about? God is spirit, and must be worshipped in spirit and in truth. That's my quest and my sole longing to dispel that which is false, examine all things and hold fast to which is good and true to be sure I am doing my best to please my heavenly father.

meccalli ,what is your view on the relationship between God and Jesus?

Father and Son.
While he was still speaking, a bright cloud covered them, and a voice from the cloud said, "This is my Son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased. Listen to him!"

so why not make an argument for the view you support?

maybe you are not understanding what I am asking, again the trinity is oneof the views of God suggested by men going through the bible ,you are claiming that you did not see trinity in the bible ,but here is the problem, if you don't agree to the trinity you automatically agree to one of the other views suggested such as Arianism,Modalism,Subordinationism and Adoptionism
..none of which are found in the bible either which makes your argument irrelevant

you dont want to accept the trinity on the grounds that you cant see it written in the bible
but you dig a deeper hole for yourself as the other view you hold comes up in second place.
these concepts are man's explanation of the God head based on what they gather from the bible in whole. it may not mean anything to you but that does not a legitimate reason to deny it, your issue alludes to the fact that you did not see the word trinity or a direct mention of it in the bible this shows that you are yet to investigate this area but at the same time denouncing the Idea ,
that is ignorance !

I asked you what is your view on the relationship between God and Jesus your short reply is "father and son " this is true but where did Jesus came from ? was he always was like he claimed? was he created by God ? was he an angel ? is he another God apart from God? this is what I want you to answer .... this is what those who propose the trinity and the opposing views sought to answer!
again my friend what is your view? thanks for your time in advance

[Habit7]

Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God

It's clearly seen that Yehoshua admires his father, considers himself not equal to him unlike satan who sought to take his throne through pride.

You are contradicting Scripture.
John 5:18
For this reason therefore the Jews were seeking all the more to kill Him, because He not only was breaking the Sabbath, but also was calling God His own Father, making Himself equal with God.

He yet to even acknowledge this, that's why he could make a statement that the Trinity is not in the Bible.

[meccalli]

I understand what you're trying to get from me, the thing is i'm never going to classify an explanation under some name to give tribute to some person who made some particular view popular. Paul taught a lot of things in the Bible by explaining the word of God. We don't call it Paulianism, we call it the word of God, and neither did these men in the Bible refer to their beliefs under some other term. Do not add to or subtract from these commands I am giving you. Just obey the commands of the LORD your God that I am giving you.

The Bible gives us enough detail on the beginning of our universe and all that we can and cannot see in it. 'The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. All things were made by him and for him.' The verse goes on to say,' For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him.' Then we have, In the Beginning was the word, the word was with God and the word was God. Yehoshua says, the Father and I are one. So we see clearly here that the son of God existed with God before creation as we know it. Before that- were things different, when ever that is, outside time and space? It really doesn't matter to me because Yehoshua himself explains his relationship with his father. Paul does a great job in putting it in layman's terms so we can understand better. But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

I've seen people try to explain a trinity and claim God's complexity. "Can you solve the mysteries of God? Can you discover everything about the Almighty? I will never make a statement on God that the Bible doesn't say, I just trust what it says. What's there is sufficient for salvation of the human race and it's what we should be concerning ourselves with, there is plenty time in eternity to learn about God when he restores the world. Those who love God will trust the words of our Lord Yehoshua without having to resort to strange doctrines and mechanisms. There is a father and a son, 2 beings who are of the same nature, spirit and mind.

As I looked,

“thrones were set in place,
and the Ancient of Days took his seat.
His clothing was as white as snow;
the hair of his head was white like wool.
His throne was flaming with fire,
and its wheels were all ablaze.
10A river of fire was flowing,
coming out from before him.
Thousands upon thousands attended him;
ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him.
13“In my vision at night I looked, and there before me was one like a son of man,a coming with the clouds of heaven. He approached the Ancient of Days and was led into his presence. 14He was given authority, glory and sovereign power; all nations and peoples of every language worshiped him. His dominion is an everlasting dominion that will not pass away, and his kingdom is one that will never be destroyed.

[meccalli]

He yet to even acknowledge this, that's why he could make a statement that the Trinity is not in the Bible.

In his defense Jesus said to them, "My Father is always at his work to this very day, and I too am working." For this reason they tried all the more to kill him; not only was he breaking the Sabbath, but he was even calling God his own Father, making himself equal with God.

That's the Lord's response. This implies a trinity with three persons in one?

[Habit7]

He yet to even acknowledge this, that's why he could make a statement that the Trinity is not in the Bible.

In his defense Jesus said to them, "My Father is always at his work to this very day, and I too am working." For this reason they tried all the more to kill him; not only was he breaking the Sabbath, but he was even calling God his own Father, making himself equal with God.

That's the Lord's response. This implies a trinity with three persons in one?

You are ignoring the context of your original statement. You said that the Jesus is not equal with the Father, however the bible affirms that they are equal several times.

Thus you can make statements like you don't see the Trinity in the bible because when one of the tenants of the Trinity, the co equality of the Godhead, is direct shown in the Bible you reject it.

[meccalli]

I didn't say it.

You said that the Jesus is not equal with the Father,

"You heard me say, 'I am going away and I am coming back to you.' If you loved me, you would be glad that I am going to the Father, for the Father is greater than I.

Don't play with words and concepts- ignoring the Lord's statement, isolating one aspect of some fundamental tenet of 'co-equality' doesn't make the thing exist. It's called a trinity because it expresses the belief in three persons within some unit called a godhead.

See to it that no one takes you captive through hollow and deceptive philosophy, which depends on human tradition and the elemental spiritual forces of this world rather than on Christ.For in him the whole fullness of God dwells bodily,

[Habit7]

It's clearly seen that Yehoshua admires his father, considers himself not equal to him unlike satan who sought to take his throne through pride.

If you claim not t to have said the above, are you now saying that Jesus is equal to the Father?

To quote John 14:28 as if Jesus saying the Father is greater than I is inconsistent the other verses that clearly affirms the equality of Jesus to the Father is disingenuous and insular. Firstly you negate verses 7-11 in the same chapter where Jesus repeatedly emphasises His equality with the Father ("I am in the Father and the Father is in Me"). Secondly you reject the context that Jesus is talking about his ascension where Jesus is going to leave His lowly incarnate position, and return to Father and receive His glorious greater position. At that point in time the Father was in a greater position, this no longer stands nor does it challenged Bible's consistent view that Jesus is equal with the Father.

I am not ignoring anything, all these scriptures harmonise with the doctrine of the Trinity. I am also yet to get a response from you on this too:

You still haven't shown me where God is the Spirit equates a separate third entity. The spirit of God/ Holy spirit/ ruach hakodesh has no roots in scripture being some other being that exists independently.

Acts 5:3-4 But Peter said, “Ananias, why has Satan filled your heart to lie to the Holy Spirit and to keep back some of the price of the land? While it remained unsold, did it not remain your own? And after it was sold, was it not under your control? Why is it that you have conceived this deed in your heart? You have not lied to men but to God.”

Who was lied to, the Holy Spirit or God? (2 marks)

[bluesclues]

i explain this to both of you u know. the spirit of Christ is one with God and God's spirit. not the man that walked the earth. the spirit filled Christ. that spirit is above duality and that is why it is One. physicality is separate and part of duality. duality is the basic construct of the physical universe and it is because spirit creates the physical.

meccali seems to have a much better understanding of the trinity than you habit7. you sound like a pagan and i cant help you as a result. it shows that your fundamental christian perception is not properly well grounded in initiate knowledge. you have a base understanding. and it makes u sound like a pagan. do not equate anyone with God. and for that matter... pray directly to God. not to jesus, as im sure you will also be praying to Jesus with the image of cesare borgia in your mind. spirit has no image. it is invisible. boy i dunno how to help you but you dont sound like a christian now that we get to this point. you sound literally like ur from a fringe sect who didnt get the full teachings. which is how most of the pagans became classed as pagan.

God alone is Supreme God boy what wrong with you? i insist now Habit7 that YOU repent and stop praying to an image of a man. he isnt even alive in the flesh so you only have spirit to pray to which is one with God. are you not understanding this?

also habit7 can you identify your christian denomination for me? is that pentecostal teaching that shapes your perception?

[meccalli]

It is because of him that you are in Christ Jesus, who has become for us wisdom from God--that is, our righteousness, holiness and redemption.
I have been crucified with Christ and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me. The life I now live in the body, I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me.
So we are in Christ and Christ in us, are we equal to Christ? Are we the same person as or a manifestation of Christ?

If you claim not t to have said the above, are you now saying that Jesus is equal to the Father?

I'm just pointing out what the Lord said.
Yehoshua is the only son of God, The Pharisees understood that what is the Father's is the Son's inheritance, the verse clearly explains that they sought to kill him because he claimed to be the Son of God and in doing so made himself equal to God. This is their view according to their traditions. I'm speaking from Yehoshua's perspective on how he looks at his relationship with his father. He thought it not robbery to be equal with God. Of course he is equal, he is of the same nature of God. However, he always puts himself under the submission of his father. The head of Christ is God. This is said after his ascension.

There is no situational context if we see the same thing being said before and after. Of David. A psalm. The YHVH says to my lord: "Sit at my right hand until I make your enemies a footstool for your feet."
Moreover, the Father judges no one, but has entrusted all judgment to the Son,that all may honor the Son just as they honor the Father. Whoever does not honor the Son does not honor the Father, who sent him.
Only difference,Christ is given additional power after his exaltation, because of his sacrifice. You know the scriptures.

Who was lied to, the Holy Spirit or God?

For who knows a person's thoughts except their own spirit within them? In the same way no one knows the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God. Like I said earlier, its personification. My hand is part of me, my hand doesn't possess a mind of its own, it is controlled by my mind. But my hand is me, same as my spirit moreso. It isn't a separate person, It is me. Its exactly what the verse projects.
'to lie to the Holy Spirit'
'not lied to men but to God.'

[meccalli]

you sound like a pagan

do not equate anyone with God. and for that matter... pray directly to God. not to jesus, as im sure you will also be praying to Jesus with the image of cesare borgia in your mind. spirit has no image.

The irony is too much lol.
Whoever does not honor the Son does not honor the Father, who sent him.

[bluesclues]

you sound like a pagan

do not equate anyone with God. and for that matter... pray directly to God. not to jesus, as im sure you will also be praying to Jesus with the image of cesare borgia in your mind. spirit has no image.

The irony is too much lol.
Whoever does not honor the Son does not honor the Father, who sent him.

i honour the son. i follow his teachings. i honour Christ in Spirit. i pray to God in spirit. i dont even pray like most of you my prayers include no words. the image of white christ everyone does have in their house isnt really Jesus image. you cannot honour that image of Christ since that is not him. so youd be wrong to pray to Christ with that image. if you pray to the spirit of God in Spirit you do so through Christ. because we are all one with Christ and God's spirit gives us life. the human body thus is the true temple of the Spirit. that is where we pray. we are all Gods. meaning again the spirit is within us and that is why we are even breathing and living creatures. i explain all this on this thread. scripture is not a shallow thing.

christ died and rose from the dead and ascended into heaven. you think he went to heaven with his body of flesh? flesh cant dwell in heaven it is sinful by nature all the things of this world of the physical.

this can go alot of ways. ppl pray to jesus but that wasnt his name that is a modern name for a letter J that was just introduced to the alphabet. in arabic hes called Isa. certain christian denominations identify him as yeshua because of that to reach to his true hebrew name and not use a modernized translation by the greeks. oh boy. so much to teach and so much to learn this forum really isnt enough.

truth be told i know duality is a very hard thing to perceive from the eyes of dualistic existence. to understand spirit and identity in the spirit. imagine you are a cup of water who's name is meccali, within the ocean. you have your own identity and memories. but.. you are one with the ocean because u are just ONE cup within a major body of water. there are other small portions of water with individual identities but they are all, including you.. one with God.. the whole ocean.

physicality is a different thing. parts of that ocean solidified to form ice blocks and are separate from the ocean. they are physical existence. but they still in the ocean, filled with the ocean. but notably are ice block and not The ocean itself. ive given the most in-depth teachings of trinity doctrine. why it is relevant. you must understand spirit divides part of itself to create physical existence and physical objects(matter). when spirit does this it takes 2 forms in our world. it manifests in man as logic and creativity/emotion. when you move from the divided physical state BACK to the spiritual state you move above such duality and are thus One, oneness of self and oneness with the spirit of God. please tell me that makes sense.

[meccalli]

1 Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake.

12 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.

13 And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son.

14 If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it.

15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;

17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

18 I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.

19 Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.

20 At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you
this should cover alot of ground. anyhow i have school now lol.

[RBphoto]

The lack of shouter baptist in this thread is disturbing *Jusssayin*

[Habit7]

So we are in Christ and Christ in us, are we equal to Christ?

In one sense YES. Through the work of Jesus' life, death and resurrection, Christians are adopted as sons and receive the righteous nature that Christ possess while Christ bears their sins and punishment on the cross. Christians are seen equal with Christ's human nature but not his divine nature.

Ephesians 1:3-6 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ, just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we would be holy and blameless before Him. In love He predestined us to adoption as sons through Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the kind intention of His will, to the praise of the glory of His grace, which He freely bestowed on us in the Beloved.

It isn't a separate person, It is me. Its exactly what the verse projects.
'to lie to the Holy Spirit'
'not lied to men but to God.'

Before you were saying that the Holy Spirit is just a personified force ("impersonal, a breath or pneuma(wind)"). Can one lie to a personified force? Is lying to a personified force equal to lying to God?

Now you are trying to muddle the Holy Spirit as the Father's spirit. In a sense this is consistent with Trinitarian doctrine as the Holy Spirit is a person submitted to the will of the Father, however He is not Father.

John 16:13-14 But when He, the Spirit of truth, comes, He will guide you into all the truth; for He will not speak on His own initiative, but whatever He hears, He will speak; and He will disclose to you what is to come. He will glorify Me, for He will take of Mine and will disclose it to you.

The Holy Spirit initiative is submitted to the will of the Father and does what He hears from the Father. Does your "hand" have a will that it submits to you?

The Holy Spirit glorifies Jesus according to the Father's will. The Father shares His glory with no one (Isaiah 42:8).

Jesus is YHWH.

[bluesclues]

y

1 Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake.

12 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.

13 And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son.

14 If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it.

15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;

17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

18 I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.

19 Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.

20 At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you
this should cover alot of ground. anyhow i have school now lol.

says the same thing i said. precisely.

and to habit7. i realize you reject my teachings. go ahead then and call Jesus Yahweh. just as long as you know, what you try to explain and the way you explain it leads jihadis to want your head. good luck

i dont know why people does talk over people when they dont know what they talking about in real. but everyone deserves what they get for the way they are yes. and dont want to listen so dont worry i wont have anything to say to you again. after you say Jesus is Yahweh there.. I done!

[bluesclues]

anyway boy meccali are you a christian? what denomination? i realize you have a better understanding that is closer to mine. i when i was a child was given that early explanation habit7 is using but was latert taught the deeper levels and meanings. and it became more like yours is now. but now after being taken up into heaven by God and shown the truth of the spirit i have a really sound understanding of duality which goes even beyond what i gained intellectually. there really is only so much of the scripture a man can understand through scholastic work. you need the spirit there guiding you as you study, but what tops it all off.. is actually becoming spiritually liberated. thats when EVERYTHING really becomes clear. duality is the hardest thing for man to grasp. more than 6 or even maybe more than 7billion ppl on this planet struggle with it. habit7 building everything around base teaching they use for catholic kids under 8yrs old before the expansion. he doesnt understand the full depth of the trinity and his mind seems hardened in an introductory teaching. shame.

[rspann]

Godhead is not found in the bible,the word is theotes ,which translated means divinity. Quick question, did the apostles have any concept of a trinity?

[megadoc1]

I understand what you're trying to get from me, the thing is i'm never going to classify an explanation under some name to give tribute to some person who made some particular view popular. Paul taught a lot of things in the Bible by explaining the word of God. We don't call it Paulianism, we call it the word of God, and neither did these men in the Bible refer to their beliefs under some other term.

I guess this is your real issue here.... but you still find yourself opposing the very thing you don't want to classify ,u even went as far to say its not in the bible.why object to the trinity based on the fact that it is not found in the bible when you knew exactly that it was in fact an explanation of the God head based on the passages in the bible?

The Bible gives us enough detail on the beginning of our universe and all that we can and cannot see in it. 'The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. All things were made by him and for him.' The verse goes on to say,' For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him.' Then we have, In the Beginning was the word, the word was with God and the word was God. Yehoshua says, the Father and I are one. So we see clearly here that the son of God existed with God before creation as we know it. Before that- were things different, when ever that is, outside time and space? It really doesn't matter to me because Yehoshua himself explains his relationship with his father. Paul does a great job in putting it in layman's terms so we can understand better. But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

the bible also give us enough details on the deity of Christ, the problem is if he is God then how come YHWH says that there is no god besides him (YHWH)? how come when Moses asked "who to say send me?" YHWH replied "I AM WHO IS" but Jesus also said "before Abraham was, I AM" how come YHWH says "I AM the first and the last" yet Jesus claimed to be the first and the last also? ..how do you consolidate those passages?

you quote verses to support your argument that Jesus and the father are not equal but how can you not see in the very verse you posted , spoke about Jesus emptying himself and becoming in the form of man? how do you not see the passage where Jesus after completing his work is asking the Father to Glorify Him with the Glory He had before the beginning of the world?

glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began.

how do you consolidate these passages? was Jesus seeking to put back on what he laid aside? oh wait that passage contradicts what you said

It's clearly seen that Yehoshua admires his father, considers himself not equal to him unlike satan who sought to take his throne through pride.

I've seen people try to explain a trinity and claim God's complexity. "Can you solve the mysteries of God? Can you discover everything about the Almighty?

NO

I will never make a statement on God that the Bible doesn't say, I just trust what it says. What's there is sufficient for salvation of the human race and it's what we should be concerning ourselves with, there is plenty time in eternity to learn about God when he restores the world.

understandable! but you cant let your fear of misunderstanding God dictate what shouldn't be explained , you don't think perhaps,that God may have created us to search out his mysteries?

Those who love God will trust the words of our Lord Yehoshua without having to resort to strange doctrines and mechanisms.

so you are suggesting that those who sought to investigate and try to understand these stuff don't love God?

There is a father and a son, 2 beings who are of the same nature, spirit and mind.

which one is God?

[megadoc1]

Godhead is not found in the bible,

Bible is not found in the bible either

[Habit7]

Godhead is not found in the bible,the word is theotes ,which translated means divinity. Quick question, did the apostles have any concept of a trinity?

It is very pedestrian to point out modern theological English terms are not found in the Hebrew and Greek text of the Bible. The theological terms point to a systematic theology of consistent biblical concepts spanning throughout all the books of the Bible. Though the term is not directly quoted in the Bible, the tenets of the term are found in the bible.

Yes the apostles had the concept of God being three in person, co-equal, one in essence. I can emphatically state that because the apostles and their helpers wrote the New Testament and there we see the fullest revelation of the doctrine of the Trinity.

[bluesclues]

it's funny i read the argument involving meccali habbit7 and megadoc and you all quoting verses out of the bible supporting everything i said which i conveyed in layman's terms. every verse you quote confirms everything ive said on the Trinity in my multiple posts. why is there still an argument about this?

Habit7 is correct, but on a base level however, his view is corrupted in that it includes Christ in the flesh being God.... IMPOSSIBRRUUUU. Only Christ' Spirit is One with God

Meccali understands the trinity quite well because he is grounding himself in the word of the scripture. this is the proper approach for an aspirant. ground yourself with facts before moving on to the next level of understanding. id say you are well guided meccali though you dont fully understand everything.

Megadoc1 now seems to understand the Trinity is a view used to explain God and his relationship to The Son. making it a very valid means of Describing GodHead interaction as you put it. but Meccali does not subscribe to it.

you 3 are like 3 sides of a coin LOL. your differences are all linked in agreement.

Habit7 gives the Trinity full reverence all 3 members being God. but may be giving Jesus in the flesh too much of that reverence.

Meccali keeps it simple by abandoning any thoughts that lead to giving it that same level habit7 does and ensures to keep the entities separate because there is only one God.. and rightly so(part rejection of the Trinity because unable to process how things can be both separate and unified at the same time).

Megadoc1 now seems to subscribe to the Trinity but is pointing out to Meccali that though Father, Son and Holy Spirit are separate, they are united in the Spirit. through oneness. so then now megadoc1 seems to have the clearest understanding of the Trinity. his view is centered. as it should be. while habit7 and meccali are both sitting on opposite sides of the spectrum to the extremes.

The Trinity is real and very valid explanatory concept. there is always duality, and above duality sits Spirit which links duality together and of course with itself. making 3 entities. so duality references 2 extremes on opposite sides which are linked by an invisible entity which sits above both of them, but links them together as well. like words on a blackboard. some words written on the left, some words written on the right, but all the words are linked by the blackboard itself. the backdrop and sustainer of the word.

come on guys.. get this.

Habit7 says... All are God himself. equal and united(most pagan view)
meccali says.. no only God is God, the Holy Spirit and Jesus are lower forms of God(most Godly view ensuring to honour the Commandment of worshiping no other God but the creator of the universe and commander of the SPIRIT)
Megadoc1 says All are one with God in Spirit, but independent identities ALSO(this is the Trinity).

Habit7 and meccali have to conjoin both their independent philosophies as one. you must anchor it on the Son. who has half flesh and half God. the flesh part is not God, the Spirit part of him is. when you do that you will have the Trinity Shield. so that when you are looking at the Trinity from Spirit side,, yes, all is one. but when you look at it from flesh side, they are separate. both habit7 and meccali are holding HALF-PERSPECTIVES of the whole concept of the Trinity. they seem to contradict eachother when joined. but not if you recognized the difference between Jesus in the flesh and Jesus in the Spirit. understand?

Habit7 - part of the Trinity with the other part filled with a pagan view in an attempt to seem most at one with the Spirit and above duality. however is unable to properly explain it
Meccali - part of the Trinity but adopts no union of spiritual things. view is purely dualistic
Megadoc1 - The whole trinity without any pagan view. both sides reconciled at the bridge where one carries both aspects.. visible and invisible.

so habit7 speaking spanish, Meccali speaking english. and Megadoc1 is a translator who can speak both languages.. whilst habit7 can only speak one and Meccali can only speak the other language. and they may view megadoc as a hypocrit because of his dual-quality. but he isnt dual.. you 2 are the halves. he is the whole. you are halves who think u are whole and so want to know how megadoc1 can have 2 wholes in him. nope. he has 2 halves making up a whole. habit7 and meccali each have only 1 of the halves from different sides/perspectives.

[rspann]

Godhead is not found in the bible,

Bible is not found in the bible either

I know that, my question is, how do you go from "divinity" to the word Godhead? What is the meaning of divinity and how did they,or should I ask, why did they translate divinity as Godhead. The next question is,what is the meaning of Godhead?

[marlener]

Just a point, in my personal opinion it is impossible to fully understand the Godhead. You may have some things revealed but any who feel that they total understanding is fooling themselves. Proceed gentlemen.

[ruffneck_12]

does it have any legit satanic churches in trinidad?

I looking to start one

[bluesclues]

Just a point, in my personal opinion it is impossible to fully understand the Godhead. You may have some things revealed but any who feel that they total understanding is fooling themselves. Proceed gentlemen.

correct. to fully understand you need to be blessed by God and come to KNOW HIS SPIRIT. not imagine it, not delude yourself.. but to KNOW IT. my explanations provide the most in depth explanation for a scholar to study and understand Godhead. because i KNOW the spirit. because i was blessed by God and the spirit revealed to me and filled in me. it was a REAL experience. you actually feel the spirit filling the body. this is the true meaning of "Born again". Give yourself to God(empty yourself into him), and he then pours his Spirit into you. this is what it means to be blessed, to be saved, to receive eternal life in the spirit and to be Born again, or enlightened in full awareness of God's Spirit.

before the blessing i too struggled with understanding Duality. and the Trinity Concept as a result. only after his blessing did everything just become clear! now i do not teach spirituality from the perspective of a scholar. but from experience and KNOWING the SPIRIT. which is filled in me as we speak.

[bluesclues]

Godhead is not found in the bible,

Bible is not found in the bible either

I know that, my question is, how do you go from "divinity" to the word Godhead? What is the meaning of divinity and how did they,or should I ask, why did they translate divinity as Godhead. The next question is,what is the meaning of Godhead?

i will wait for megadoc1 to respond. but i can explain this easy.

[meccalli]

Hmmn, where to start..

I know that, my question is, how do you go from "divinity" to the word Godhead? What is the meaning of divinity and how did they,or should I ask, why did they translate divinity as Godhead. The next question is,what is the meaning of Godhead?

Strange doctrines of the elements and of men, to confuse and cause division among the brethren and to promote their own beliefs.

how do you consolidate these passages? was Jesus seeking to put back on what he laid aside? oh wait that passage contradicts what you said

You missed all those verses I put that states the same. I have no contention with Yeshua's divine nature as the Son of God who exists with the Father in eternity. John 1.1

"Can you solve the mysteries of God? Can you discover everything about the Almighty?

I thought you would have recognized this is from Job.

so you are suggesting that those who sought to investigate and try to understand these stuff don't love God?

Nah, I'm saying they wouldn't create their own doctrines and push it as God's words. I hope they know the seriousness of claiming to be a prophet and be the voice of God.

which one is God?

The Father, Yehoshua is the Son of God.

meccali are you a christian? what denomination?

I consider my self a servant of God. Nothing more or less. I fellowship at a Pentecostal assembly, have been there for the past 14 years ever since I started going to church @ 7 when my household was saved through the literal transformation of my Father's lifestyle upon finding salvation and consequently my mother and grandparents who were all Hindu.

In one sense YES.

So the concept of equality is not equal to being the same person. Right?

Before you were saying that the Holy Spirit is just a personified force ("impersonal, a breath or pneuma(wind)"). Can one lie to a personified force? Is lying to a personified force equal to lying to God?

Now you are trying to muddle the Holy Spirit as the Father's spirit.

Lets see if I can finally clear this up. This should also shed light on the issue of oneness. What is spirit?
Original Word: πνεῦμα, ατος, τό
Part of Speech: Noun, Neuter
Transliteration: pneuma
Short Definition: wind, breath, spirit
Definition: wind, breath, spirit.
Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit.
I baptize you with water, but he will baptize you with the Holy Spirit."
For there are three that testify: the Spirit and the water and the blood; and the three are in agreement.

Spirit is a medium or state, an essence or an element. Spirit is substance, not a person this is what I was pointing out then proceeding to show the relationship of The father and son as spirit. We see that God is Spirit. The verse says, for He will not speak on His own initiative, but whatever He hears, He will speak. My hand has no will or mind of its own, it does what I tell it to do.

Here's what the word of God says.
As before. 'Now the Lord is that Spirit and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.'

And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.'

And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you. I will not leave you comfortless. I will come to you. Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also. At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.'

Judas saith unto him, not Iscariot, Lord, how is it that thou wilt manifest thyself unto us, and not unto the world? Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.'

For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.'

You see, all these scriptures tell us of one spirit that belongs to the father and the son. When the Lord speaks of the comforter, he says I will come to you. Yehoshua all throughout scripture refers to himself in third person as if he is speaking of someone other than himself, another comforter. This is the parakletos, the other comforter, Yehoshua. Its is the spirit of God which dwells within us, that of the son and the father. He dwells in me and I in him. They are of one spirit. In response to Judas, he says ,We will come and make our abode in him referring in that very verse to himself and the father. Paul implores, Don't you know that you yourselves are God's temple and that God's Spirit dwells in your midst? But here's the kicker and ultimately the main point, the holy spirit is not a separate third person. No trinity.