The Religion Discussion

[bluesclues]

cliff notes version?

tldr? lol id say that is the cliff notes version yes lol

[_Kingfish_]

.........

[bluesclues]

Waw.....much hate in this ched

And do not argue with the People of the Scripture except in a way that is best, except for those who commit injustice among them, and say, "We believe in that which has been revealed to us and revealed to you. And our God and your God is one; and we are Muslims [in submission] to Him." (Quran 29:46)

well that is it isnt it. Muhammad has attacked all form of ritual and symbolism associated with ancient times. rituals which even the prophets were instructed to perform at one point based on the genesis/pre-Christ accounts by the jews. but the people still became corrupted in their ways. Surah 29 refers to a portion of the old testament account of Lot. there is no contradiction between the 2 accounts in Quran or Bible. and the line of prophets and their story is also the same. everything fits in together. but it appears that Muhammad effectively drives a wedge in between muslims, who are the descendants of the sons of Ishmael, and Christianity. forbidding adoption of their ways. he demands totally blind faith to God, which is indeed a noble way. but Surah 19 shows that Allah authorizes the work of Al Kitab which would serve as a document to the followers of Christ. because of this, there appears a contradiction between the words of Allah, and those of Muhammad's instructions.

the Old testament account of ishmael in Genesis 17 identifies this. as Abraham asked for Ishmael to be blessed and carry on the line of divinity to Christ as was the plan. God said 'no', already knowing what purpose Ishmael would serve. it documents his intention to give that blessing to be aware of God always to Isaac instead. Genesis 21 continuesthe story where ishmael is found making fun of Isaac who was blessed to be a prophet through Abraham's real wife. causing Abraham's wife Sarah to be grieved. forcing Abraham to send Hagar(the slave girl) away with Ishmael. God then promised that he would bless Ishmael's descendants since Abraham did make a request of God which God chose to fulfill in part because Ishmael was still a direct descendant of Abraham. when Hagar and ishmael were almost to die and cried out to God, he helped them to find water and they learned to survive in the wilderness. the original plan God had for Isaac was caused by the account in Genesis 16, where Hagar tries to raise herself above Abraham's wife because she bore his only son. and thus believed that sufficient grounds to be heir. but God had other plans for Ishmael directly as a result of this action on Hagar's part who had overstepped her boundary. and as a result had already determined that Ishmael would be a wild man and a thorn in the side of the world through all his descendants. he would be against everyone and everyone would be against him and live in conflict with all his relatives(brothers of the human race as we all are).

this is a sentence upon the earth that is not scheduled to be lifted until the coming Al Mahdi. so that is the reason why Muhammad is who he is. and why Muslims have this wedge drawn between them and Christians etc. but back in the day.. in the old testament. we were all jews. mixed race coloured ethnic peoples and asians, and i believe as well caucasians. since they wouldve come from Noah's son, Japheth or later from the onset and survival of leprosy or albinism. so it all ties in.

[meccalli]

. and as a result had already determined that Ishmael would be a wild man and a thorn in the side of the world through all his descendants. he would be against everyone and everyone would be against him

And as for Ishmael, I have heard thee: Behold, I have blessed him, and will make him fruitful, and will multiply him exceedingly; twelve princes shall he beget, and I will make him a great nation.

Also, the arab nation existed far before Ishmael, Joktan's descendants who lived in ashur and mesha. Ishamel's descendants lived within the vicinity of Edom and Midian. Then the men of Israel said unto Gideon, Rule thou over us, both thou, and thy son, and thy son's son also: for thou hast delivered us from the hand of Midian.

23 And Gideon said unto them, I will not rule over you, neither shall my son rule over you: the Lord shall rule over you.
Muhammad may have wanted us to believe we serve the same God as the Pope and the likes of mega pastors today accept. But make no mistake,

I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting him who called you in the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel— not that there is another one, but there are some who trouble you and want to distort the gospel of Christ. But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach to you a gospel contrary to the one we preached to you, let him be accursed.

[RBphoto]

So.... You guys still believe in leprechauns?

[meccalli]

Yep.., you still believe in spontaneous generation?

[The Paleontologist]

I believe I can fly

[RBphoto]

I believe I can touch the sky!!!

[bluesclues]

. and as a result had already determined that Ishmael would be a wild man and a thorn in the side of the world through all his descendants. he would be against everyone and everyone would be against him

And as for Ishmael, I have heard thee: Behold, I have blessed him, and will make him fruitful, and will multiply him exceedingly; twelve princes shall he beget, and I will make him a great nation.

correct, the blessing was of making him fruitful. but not to carry on the divine line of prophets. if they were to be following in the God of Abraham then they would have been part of the Jews at that time. See Abraham is shown as owning them as slaves but Hagar and Ishmael are Egyptians. Ishmael was also circumcised under the Judaic covenant. Making at least some arabs slaves under a Jewish Abraham as ordained by the will of God. so claims to a religion pre-existing judaism are made irrelevant due to the fact that we move closer to the original 3 houses which are the sons of Noah. Shem, Ham and Japheth. showing us again to all be brothers as Noah's sons were responsible for re-populating the world. and their sons were to be blessed with nations. Noah was made by Ham to no longer be able to make children. Ham was black, Japheth was white, and Shem was Oriental/Asian. All these co-existed among eachother under the leadership of God's prophets or their brothers/descendants. the line of Shem was blessed above the other 2 houses. Ham's sons(egypt) was cursed for the wickedness he had done to his father. Noah didnt curse Ham himself because God had already blessed him as a child. so he cursed his sons to serve under Japheth who was under Shem.

Also, the arab nation existed far before Ishmael, Joktan's descendants who lived in ashur and mesha. Ishamel's descendants lived within the vicinity of Edom and Midian. Then the men of Israel said unto Gideon, Rule thou over us, both thou, and thy son, and thy son's son also: for thou hast delivered us from the hand of Midian.

23 And Gideon said unto them, I will not rule over you, neither shall my son rule over you: the Lord shall rule over you.
Muhammad may have wanted us to believe we serve the same God as the Pope and the likes of mega pastors today accept. But make no mistake,

I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting him who called you in the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel— not that there is another one, but there are some who trouble you and want to distort the gospel of Christ. But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach to you a gospel contrary to the one we preached to you, let him be accursed.

Sure, Arabs existed before ishmael. but they were following God in the creation of the story of religion. religion would not have been established yet since God was actually there instructing the prophets. note that Joktan/Khatan sprouts under the family tree of Shem, making him at least part oriental in the creation of the races. and that though Joktan and Peleg, were the 2 sons of Eber, Peleg is the one whom carries on the line of Prophets unto Abraham. which culminates in Surah 19 with the birth of Christ. so Joktan would have been Arab-Jews carrying the same knowledge of the divine family tree and transmitting it orally to their children until the Quran was written down under the instruction of Muhammad. Muhammad wouldnt have been part of the Quran in the time of the descendants of Joktan, nor in Ishmael's time. thus Arabs(future muslims) functioned without any words from Muhammad.

As a result it is good reasoning, that Islam if claimed to pre-date Christianity, would have to exist as Jews before the branch off to Christianity. just as Christians were also Jews. We already know there were a mix of races because the Arabs are only part Oriental. Though Joktan's line came under Shem's oriental lineage, they moved to Ethiopia and Egypt and mixed with eachother. so they are also Arabs who are part black, part white and part asian in various mixes. all at one time considered Jews.

Joktan/Khatan/Qahtan may have fathered a nation as is indeed confirmed to produce arabic people, but his beliefs and the oral tradition would not include Muhammad's as part of their Quran. since Muhammad was born in 6th century AD.

However, through Ishmael, we see where the adoption of circumcision comes from. when it began with Abraham who was circumcised at 99, and circumcised ISmail at the same time. Thus, Muhammad's Quran appears to highlight the descendents of Ismail who went into the wilderness and carried on through oral tradition. whilst also pointing out through the word Muslim that it is a reversion to Moses' Law. the root Musa, pronounce Moshe refers to Moses.. and Lem which comes from the old Hebrew/Aramaic i've translated to mean Law. making a Muslim/Moslem.. in short. a follower of the Law of Moses. The Ten Commandments. This occurs because some of those Moses led out of Egypt were arab-jews. but also consist of the Jews who would later reject Christ or dispute amongst themselves whether he was really the Son of God. Muhammad as a result, disputes this, and forms Islam to reduce Christ to a mere prophet. it is a matter to be made clear with the coming of the Mahdi. Muhammad extends the line of Ismail by reverting to Moses Law, creating Musa-lems of Islam, whilst not adopting the 2 laws which Jesus brought "Do unto others.." and "love thy neighbour..". however Muhammad does make some statements which allude to the same code of honour.

Surah 24:22
And let not those of virtue among you and wealth swear not to give [aid] to their relatives and the needy and the emigrants for the cause of Allah , and let them pardon and overlook. Would you not like that Allah should forgive you? And Allah is Forgiving and Merciful.

insinuating here that we should forgive because we ourselves would like to be forgiven by Allah.

This table highlights the Arabs forming under Joktan. however as i mentioned. mixing between their peoples occurred later, creating various divisions of races by mixture. Thus a Muslim is a Jew, and so are Christians down to the virgin birth confirmed by Allah who made Mary pregnant by His Will alone! and no man had touched her. Thus Jesus' Father was not a mortal man.

[bluesclues]

There were 3 types of Jews.

1. Jews who were Prophets. these were the supreme Jews. but not all their descendants were made prophets. only some.

2. Jews who were being instructed BY the prophets. the nations and family tree. not all would have been living righteously enough to be considered prophets as of yet until they earned it.

3. Jews who form today's Jewish tradition based on the covenant formed with Abraham.

a True Jew is all 3 of these. a follower of the Prophets of God, who had attained prophethood and was blessed by God, making you a member of the divine family, not just by the bloodline connection. but also by spiritual awareness. making you one of the children of God.

Since the original Jewish covenant was abolished, and the Arabs invaded and destroyed the temple as part of God's will, for the Jews breaking the covenant, God had decided to create a new covenant. That covenant came through Christ, and no longer required circumcision of the flesh, but of the heart. to be patient and forgiving and compassionate to our fellow man. Thus the true children of God in today's world, would also have to be following Christ's way. as his coming created the Completion of the law of the prophets for an everlasting covenant. 4th requirement.

note that the prophet line of God was unaffected by those follower jews who broke the covenant. God's prophets kept the covenant. the nation of the jews did not. this is why they were unable to properly ascertain Jesus' status. their spirituality was corrupted, and as a result, so was their judgement. A prophet was always led out of controversy and allowed to carry on the line of those who obeyed God.

[meccalli]

There is no divine lineage of prophets. Servants of God are his children and privy to various gifts which include prophecy and inherently speaking to and hearing from their father.
Abraham wasn't a jew and has no relationship to any religion called judaism. Abraham was hebrew as a descendant of eber. Jews are just one of the tribes which descended from Judah so idk where you get your claims from.

Under Christ there's no distinction as I said before as children of God-There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. Idk what the name muslim has to do with law, God's teachings outlined in the Bible is called Torah which stems from moreh and yarah as is used in Psalms to denote a mother's or parents teachings to their children. Yeshua's father is YHVH. allah is one of gods related to the many mystery religions that stemmed from nimrod's kingdom in shinar. Hubal/allit/al-ilah and her sisters/diana are all worshipped with the symbols of islam

[bluesclues]

There is no divine lineage of prophets. Servants of God are his children and privy to various gifts which include prophecy and inherently speaking to and hearing from their father.
Abraham wasn't a jew and has no relationship to any religion called judaism. Abraham was hebrew as a descendant of eber. Jews are just one of the tribes which descended from Judah so idk where you get your claims from.

Under Christ there's no distinction as I said before as children of God-There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. Idk what the name muslim has to do with law, God's teachings outlined in the Bible is called Torah which stems from moreh and yarah as is used in Psalms to denote a mother's or parents teachings to their children. Yeshua's father is YHVH. allah is one of gods related to the many mystery religions that stemmed from nimrod's kingdom in shinar. Hubal/allit/al-ilah and her sisters/diana are all worshipped with the symbols of islam

incorrect. there is a divine lineage and Allah names them in Surah 19 so that we can track it down to God's supreme prophet. Isa. it is tracked all the way from Adam, through Seth and stays unbroken through the flood all the way down to Joseph, Mary and Isa.

16 Relate in Al-Kitab the story of Maryam, when she withdrew from her family to a place in the east.

41 Also mention in Al-Kitab the story of Ibrahim: he was a man of truth, a prophet.

51 Also mention in Al-Kitab the story of Musa: for he was specially chosen, and he was a messenger and a prophet.

54 Also mention in Al-Kitab the story of Ismail: he was strictly true to what he promised, and he was a messenger and a prophet.

56 Also mention in Al-Kitab the case of Idris(Enoch): he was a man of truth and a prophet.

58 Those were some of the prophets on whom Allah bestowed his grace of the posterity of Adam, and of those whom we carried in the Ark with Nuh, and of the posterity of Ibrahim and Israel, of those whom we guided and chose. Whenever the signs of Allah most gracious were rehearsed to them, they would fall down in prostrate adoration and in tears.

59 But after them there followed a posterity who missed prayers and followed after lusts: soon, then, will they face destruction,

This divine lineage that God was leading and creating had to do with the coming of Christ and the new covenant he would make after the Jews/Hebrews broke the covenant. The Hebrews then were the people of the nations under the instruction of a Prophet. Allah outlines the story of these particular prophets for Al-Kitab which is directly relative to the life of Isa. so it refers to the New Testament of the Christian Bible that Allah was authorizing to be developed. it is not that God tested Abraham for no reason. he tested him to see if he would sacrifice his only Son for God. and by passing that test, earned the right for the Human race, through the continued divine lineage to birth the Son of God, who would be sacrificed for the sins of mankind. His divine blood afford us and paid our way, and we owe it all to God's forgiveness and Abraham's passing of the test. All part of God's will.

As you can see Ishmael was blessed as requested by Abraham. he was able to lead a nation, but there is no mention of his offspring being blessed as it was detailed among the prophets who are all connected and their entire family tree extrapolated in the Old Testament. Hebrews were jews. but not necessarily prophets. some slaves were Jews/Hebrews also because they had to undergo the laws of the covenant of their master as commanded by God. The divine bloodline continued through Abraham and Isaac to produce Christ. not through ishmael. and you must address what Quran was being used by Joktan and descendants etc, if the words of Muhammad had not yet been added to it.

unfortunately, Muhammad's connection to the divine lineage cannot be traced because it is said he was an orphan. and could not even read or write. but this was never the case of any prophets preceding. and only God can name the prophets. so for now it is a case of belief that God sent a prophet 600 years after Christ, to be specific for the Arab people. however.. Christ was sent for the world. the sacrifice of his Divine blood was worth the lives of billion upon billions of ppl. possibly infinite. and for this reason, was sufficient payment to end all rituals of sacrifice. And God ended such requirements along with restrictions on meats which were from the old covenant. The Quran at least, confirms by Allah that Christ is a prophet. so the people of Christ(Christians) are also following the will of God.

it really does not matter anymore whether we are from Greek or Jew because all those races are mixed in today's world. there's the pure races and the mixes in between. the 3 pure races white, black and Asian, would have come from Noah's 3 sons. and they inter-married etc and arab and indian nations were formed. as well as other meso-asianic variations(sumeria, babylon, egypt. caanan, Israel). all were lead by God until they were destroyed whilst the Prophet of the time and his children would escape and build or rise to the head of a new nation elsewhere. Thus it is clear. Muslims must be the brothers of Christians, and all were once upon a time.. Jews/Hebrews but not necessarily prophets. since the coming of Christ however, we all have the law of God written in our hearts as a conscience, and are judged individually by God by our obedience and servitude to him. By obeying the prophets, and Christ who did not contradict any one of them. Christians are not even allowed to judge eachother because God is the Judge who will repay all that everyone deserves for their actions on earth.

[meccalli]

meso-asianic variations(sumeria, babylon, egypt. caanan, Israel)

You're more lost than all the atheists put together on this thread.

[bluesclues]

the fact remains. those people exist and travelled from sumeria through mesopotamia bablyon etc. that was the region this all started. so if they exist today, then they also came from Noah. unless theyre aliens from outer space. everybody on the whole earth could claim they are a descendant of Noah and itd be true. so obviously blood desendence/inheritance alone dont make one a prophet.

[RBphoto]

meso-asianic variations(sumeria, babylon, egypt. caanan, Israel)

You're more lost than all the atheists put together on this thread.

Thug life

[bluesclues]

meso-asianic variations(sumeria, babylon, egypt. caanan, Israel)

You're more lost than all the atheists put together on this thread.

Thug life

what exactly is there to deny about what ive said? nothing. i merely point out that there were whites, blacks and asians and they intermixed, creating eurasians, meso-asians, and meso-eurasians in different quantities down the line of descendence. thus we got the arab nations, the indian nations, and black-chinees etc. all were in egypt at one point or another. and when they were they mixed with the people there. all were ordained by God to populate the earth and form nations and inter-married among eachother coming up because they worshiped the same God. they were only forbidden from mixing with those who became pagan due to idolatry and deviance etc. but the same people at one point.. were not pagan and so it was allowable.

my God is not a racist. he created all the races for a reason. the Quran testifies that Jesus is a Prophet born of no mortal man. against the beliefs of the Jews who dont accept him even as a prophet. for this reason, it upholds the truth of the Christian bible by confirming what it says is true. while the Jews are still waiting for their messiah, one came and has already birthed the world's most dominant religion. Christianity. anyone denying such things as they have happened as the will of God is sadly misconstrued.
you can deny what i say. but you will not find any information to the contrary. thus your beliefs may not be founded on reality, and corrupted by bias.

[bluesclues]

unfortunately, Muhammad's connection to the divine lineage cannot be traced because it is said he was an orphan. and could not even read or write. but this was never the case of any prophets preceding. and only God can name the prophets. so for now it is a case of belief that God sent a prophet 600 years after Christ, to be specific for the Arab people. however.. Christ was sent for the world. the sacrifice of his Divine blood was worth the lives of billion upon billions of ppl. possibly infinite. and for this reason, was sufficient payment to end all rituals of sacrifice. And God ended such requirements along with restrictions on meats which were from the old covenant. The Quran at least, confirms by Allah that Christ is a prophet. so the people of Christ(Christians) are also following the will of God.

^^^^^
This is where islam/christianity more or less splits off (well this and the whole Jesus is the lord, father son holy ghost thing)

yep.. but the original split wouldve began with Ishmael. When God took Ishmael and Hagar on a separate route and location from Abraham and the Jews, to father a nation. so i think we can at least agree that it is the same God. we were all once Jews.. but some left Judaism when the Jews killed Christ(error) and followed in the ways of Christianity which is the life and teachings of Christ added to history of prophets. then after the Christian/Catholic Church was established, Muhammad rose among his people by claiming prophethood, and provided instructions which are basically aimed at maintaining the split.

there's alot of angles i can approach explanation and a few things i want to deal with.. including the misconception of the Trinity symbol. because it is merely just a symbol. following in the language of symbolism in Egypt. but because this forum is insufficient for me to just post a wall of text with every single detail as i could in a book, im going to have to try to break it down into smaller parts that will join as part of the whole later on. so i want to place a few notes that i think we can agree on moving forward.

1. Hagar's contention with Abraham's wife and Ishmael's contention with Isaac is Sarah's own fault because she is the one made the suggestion in the first place of her own bright idea. but because she was blessed as being the wife of the Prophet Abraham she was seen as doing no wrong in God's eyes. thus Hagar was instructed to return to servitude after she ran away and promised that he would assist them in forming their own nation(King/prophet). and as a result of the request by Abraham to bless Ishmael. Ishmael became a prophet and fathered a nation.

2. the arabic people began since Joktan but were fully "Jews" because they followed God(or a true prophet of God), but the covenant was not yet established.

3. Ishmael and Hagar were Jews under Abraham and the tradition of circumcision was carried on with Ishmael's line to all the Arab people.

4. Ishmael became a prophet and so was a Jew(not the same jew as referred to as seen today in israel.). but Jew, meaning follower of God and also, part of the divine family of God.

5. to be considered a Jew you have to obey all the prophets of God. since none would contradict eachother and would be too wise to have war between eachother. theyd have a perfect brotherhood relationship under God. so when the Jews(the jewish religion in israel) would not obey Christ and even formed a consensus to have him killed they had abandoned the instructions of a true prophet of God. and as a result have contradicted the prophets of their forefathers(as they had done before and were ravaged by the Arabs for it, whilst the prophets were forewarned and allowed to escape and carry on the line of obedience to God).

6. The Jews among them who disagree with the killing of Christ and accepted him as the highest prophet of all the prophets went on to form Christianity as ordained by God.

7. Christ's title of King of Kings(supreme prophet/all prophets were kings/father of nations), since he was the purest prophet to walk the earth, was a challenge to Godless kings. and his coming and dying, through peaceful means, led to the destruction of King's rule and as promised. democracy was formed, which distributed the power to the people to choose their representatives and have elections. this is because there would be no prophet for a while after Christ, and so God would not allow Kings to claim "Divine right to rule based on their father's blood inheritance". to claim the divine right to rule one HAD to be a prophet! because only a prophet could lead his people as God truly intended. the divine mind isnt inherited, it is practiced and learned through obeying God astutely and becoming blessed by God with awareness of him. showing that each of us is responsible for gaining grace in God's eyes and will be judged independently by our own actions on earth.

8. Christ provides the path to attaining divinity and Grace from God. he brings the knowledge and completes the law of the prophets without contradicting them. and provided sufficient explanation to the jews where they misconstrued him as contradicting the prophets that came before him.

9. Because Christ was born of the will of God and not the sperm of a mortal man.. Christians consider him God's son. as he was not an orphan. the half of his genes which fertilized the egg in Mary was provided by God himself. this in itself.. made him more pure than all the past prophets who were born of mortal men. and thus, the most Supreme.

10. being the most supreme prophet, who as the Quran demonstrates in Surah 19, was speaking out of the cradle after he was born. much to everyone's amazement. earned his place in the catholic symbolism of the Trinity.(i will explain the Trinity symbol in more depth later). but in summary. the 3 that exist at the top of the creation of the Universe are the "Universal 3". one is God the Supreme Creator of Heaven and Earth, the second is the Holy Spirit which God sends as a helper to man to find divinity via his conscience/intution/inspiration. and the third is the Divine son of God who comes to earth in the flesh to help man distinguish the true path to God's grace. The Trinity thus refers to God, and the topmost 2 helpers to man(not God's helpers as God does not need help, helpers to man). one in spirit(Holy Spirit), and one in flesh(Christ) that would borne witnesses on the earth of his miraculous works as proof through clear signs that he was of divine ordination.

i guess i will leave it at those points for now. i believe we can agree wholly on every one of them except in your aversions to the trinity teaching which Muhammad warns muslims not to enjoin. but we can see through my explanation in number 10 on the list. that we may be dealing with a misconception of what the trinity is. and this forms the basis for the continued separation of faiths. but all in all, historically, God has allowed the arabs to invade nations who allowed themselves to become lost to God's word and those of the prophets. but not those who obey the prophets. Thus.. in 626, the second year of Hegira, just 6 years before Muhammad died, much later in his life. this misconception was cleared up and the Achtiname of Muhammad was established and signed with his handprint. freeing Christians from all forms of muslim persecution. including paying taxes, being taken into slavery, disrupting their governing process, forced conversions etc etc. because Christians are Muslims brothers under God. the Christians are commanded to be peaceful by the prophets and majorly by Christ. and the Muslims protect them in their peaceful servitude to God so none others can take advantage of them. This was the pillar of islam as we know it today. Christians and Muslims validate eachother and protect the earth from becoming Godless again. to protect man's freedom, and to put away savagery.

for these very reasons.. isis is in grave error for what they have done to the yezidis/yazidis and others such as Christians in the region. especially since those are their own arabic people obeying the prophets. they have acted against Muhammad's wishes. even though he insisted that muslims do not convert to Christianity, Christianity is ordained by God and so out of their jurisdiction to persecute. any paganism attributed to Christianity is formed out of misconception. and i believe even Muhammad would say that if he were alive now. though all actions on the earth are predetermined by God, the individuals who commit to an act of wickedness or atrocity outside their bounds will face individual punishment. they cannot rape, sell into slavery, tax, take command over or even demand a portion of their food stocks. in the case of the yezidis it is very dire, as those people live only on what they need and produce only what they need for themselves. Isis may be fullfilling prophecy. but on the wrong end of the spectrum. and they will be punished for it.

[bluesclues]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Achtiname_of_Muhammad

[RBphoto]

The spongebob trailer hard tho.

[_Kingfish_]

......

[3stagevtec]

Can someone summarize what going on in here? People still quoting a book written by man as proof of god's existence?

[_Kingfish_]

.......

[3stagevtec]

^^^^

Something so....Just that I believe it to be the word of god

I really and truly don't think a guy who could not even read or write could come up with some of this stuff:
http://www.missionislam.com/science/book.htm

That's some real hardcore science there yo!!

[ruffneck_12]

ayesha was 9 years old tho...

edit: Just realised this was my 4000th post, yayy

[bluesclues]

bluesclus:

The following is a translation of part of Al-i' Imran......(my only regret is that you do not know Arabic to read and understand the true Quran)

42. And (remember) when the angels said: "O Maryam (Mary)! Verily, Allah has chosen you, purified you (from polytheism and disbelief), and chosen you above the women of the 'Alamin (mankind and jinns) (of her lifetime)."

43. O Mary! "Submit yourself with obedience to your Lord (Allah, by worshipping none but Him Alone) and prostrate yourself, and Irka'i (bow down etc.) along with Ar-Raki'un (those who bow down etc.)."

44. This is a part of the news of the Ghaib (unseen, i.e. the news of the past nations of which you have no knowledge) which We inspire you with (O Muhammad ). You were not with them, when they cast lots with their pens as to which of them should be charged with the care of Maryam (Mary); nor were you with them when they disputed.

45. (Remember) when the angels said: "O Maryam (Mary)! Verily, Allah gives you the glad tidings of a Word ["Be!" - and he was! i.e. 'Iesa (Jesus) the son of Maryam (Mary)] from Him, his name will be the Messiah 'Iesa (Jesus), the son of Maryam (Mary), held in honour in this world and in the Hereafter, and will be one of those who are near to Allah."

46. "He will speak to the people in the cradle and in manhood, and he will be one of the righteous."

47. She said: "O my Lord! How shall I have a son when no man has touched me." He said: "So (it will be) for Allah creates what He wills. When He has decreed something, He says to it only: "Be!" and it is.

48. And He (Allah) will teach him ['Iesa (Jesus)] the Book and Al-Hikmah (i.e. the Sunnah, the faultless speech of the Prophets, wisdom, etc.), (and) the Taurat (Torah) and the Injeel (Gospel).

49. And will make him ['Iesa (Jesus)] a Messenger to the Children of Israel (saying): "I have come to you with a sign from your Lord, that I design for you out of clay, as it were, the figure of a bird, and breathe into it, and it becomes a bird by Allah's Leave; and I heal him who was born blind, and the leper, and I bring the dead to life by Allah's Leave. And I inform you of what you eat, and what you store in your houses. Surely, therein is a sign for you, if you believe.

50. And I have come confirming that which was before me of the Taurat (Torah), and to make lawful to you part of what was forbidden to you, and I have come to you with a proof from your Lord. So fear Allah and obey me.

51. Truly! Allah is my Lord and your Lord, so worship Him (Alone). This is the Straight Path.

52. Then when 'Iesa (Jesus) came to know of their disbelief, he said: "Who will be my helpers in Allah's Cause?" Al-Hawariun (the disciples) said: "We are the helpers of Allah; we believe in Allah, and bear witness that we are Muslims (i.e. we submit to Allah)."

53. Our Lord! We believe in what You have sent down, and we follow the Messenger ['Iesa (Jesus)]; so write us down among those who bear witness (to the truth i.e. La ilaha ill-Allah - none has the right to be worshipped but Allah).

54. And they (disbelievers) plotted [to kill 'Iesa (Jesus)], and Allah planned too. And Allah is the Best of the planners.

55. And (remember) when Allah said: "O 'Iesa (Jesus)! I will take you and raise you to Myself and clear you [of the forged statement that 'Iesa (Jesus) is Allah's son] of those who disbelieve, and I will make those who follow you (Monotheists, who worship none but Allah) superior to those who disbelieve [in the Oneness of Allah, or disbelieve in some of His Messengers, e.g. Muhammad , 'Iesa (Jesus), Musa (Moses), etc., or in His Holy Books, e.g. the Taurat (Torah), the Injeel (Gospel), the Qur'an] till the Day of Resurrection. Then you will return to Me and I will judge between you in the matters in which you used to dispute."

56. "As to those who disbelieve, I will punish them with a severe torment in this world and in the Hereafter, and they will have no helpers."

57. And as for those who believe (in the Oneness of Allah) and do righteous good deeds, Allah will pay them their reward in full. And Allah does not like the Zalimun (polytheists and wrong-doers).

58. This is what We recite to you (O Muhammad ) of the Verses and the Wise Reminder (i.e. the Qur'an).

59. Verily, the likeness of 'Iesa (Jesus) before Allah is the likeness of Adam. He created him from dust, then (He) said to him: "Be!" - and he was.

60. (This is) the truth from your Lord, so be not of those who doubt.

61. Then whoever disputes with you concerning him ['Iesa (Jesus)] after (all this) knowledge that has come to you, [i.e. 'Iesa (Jesus)] being a slave of Allah, and having no share in Divinity) say: (O Muhammad ) "Come, let us call our sons and your sons, our women and your women, ourselves and yourselves - then we pray and invoke (sincerely) the Curse of Allah upon those who lie."

62. Verily! This is the true narrative [about the story of 'Iesa (Jesus)], and, La ilaha ill-Allah (none has the right to be worshipped but Allah, the One and the Only True God, Who has neither a wife nor a son). And indeed, Allah is the All-Mighty, the All-Wise.

63. And if they turn away (and do not accept these true proofs and evidences), then surely, Allah is All-Aware of those who do mischief.

64. Say (O Muhammad ): "O people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians): Come to a word that is just between us and you, that we worship none but Allah, and that we associate no partners with Him, and that none of us shall take others as lords besides Allah. Then, if they turn away, say: "Bear witness that we are Muslims."

65. O people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians)! Why do you dispute about Ibrahim (Abraham), while the Taurat (Torah) and the Injeel (Gospel) were not revealed till after him? Have you then no sense?

66. Verily, you are those who have disputed about that of which you have knowledge. Why do you then dispute concerning that which you have no knowledge? It is Allah Who knows, and you know not.

67. Ibrahim (Abraham) was neither a Jew nor a Christian, but he was a true Muslim Hanifa (Islamic Monotheism - to worship none but Allah Alone) and he was not of Al-Mushrikun (See V.2:105).

68. Verily, among mankind who have the best claim to Ibrahim (Abraham) are those who followed him, and this Prophet (Muhammad ) and those who have believed (Muslims). And Allah is the Wali (Protector and Helper) of the believers.

69. A party of the people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians) wish to lead you astray. But they shall not lead astray anyone except themselves, and they perceive not.

70. O people of the Scripture! (Jews and Christians): "Why do you disbelieve in the Ayat of Allah, [the Verses about Prophet Muhammad present in the Taurat (Torah) and the Injeel (Gospel)] while you (yourselves) bear witness (to their truth)."

71. O people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians): "Why do you mix truth with falsehood and conceal the truth while you know?"

72. And a party of the people of the Scripture say: "Believe in the morning in that which is revealed to the believers (Muslims), and reject it at the end of the day, so that they may turn back.

73. And believe no one except the one who follows your religion. Say (O Muhammad ): "Verily! Right guidance is the Guidance of Allah" and do not believe that anyone can receive like that which you have received (of Revelation) except when he follows your religion, otherwise they would engage you in argument before your Lord. Say (O Muhammad ): "All the bounty is in the Hand of Allah; He grants to whom He wills. And Allah is All-Sufficient for His creatures' needs, the All-Knower."

74. He selects for His Mercy (Islam and the Qur'an with Prophethood) whom He wills and Allah is the Owner of Great Bounty.

75. Among the people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians) is he who, if entrusted with a Cantar (a great amount of wealth, etc.), will readily pay it back; and among them there is he who, if entrusted with a single silver coin, will not repay it unless you constantly stand demanding, because they say: "There is no blame on us to betray and take the properties of the illiterates (Arabs)." But they tell a lie against Allah while they know it.

76. Yes, whoever fulfils his pledge and fears Allah much; verily, then Allah loves those who are Al-Muttaqun (the pious - see V.2:2).

77. Verily, those who purchase a small gain at the cost of Allah's Covenant and their oaths, they shall have no portion in the Hereafter (Paradise). Neither will Allah speak to them, nor look at them on the Day of Resurrection, nor will He purify them, and they shall have a painful torment.

78. And verily, among them is a party who distort the Book with their tongues (as they read), so that you may think it is from the Book, but it is not from the Book, and they say: "This is from Allah," but it is not from Allah; and they speak a lie against Allah while they know it.

79. It is not (possible) for any human being to whom Allah has given the Book and Al-Hukma (the knowledge and understanding of the laws of religion, etc.) and Prophethood to say to the people: "Be my worshippers rather than Allah's." On the contrary (he would say): "Be you Rabbaniyun (learned men of religion who practise what they know and also preach others), because you are teaching the Book, and you are studying it."

80. Nor would he order you to take angels and Prophets for lords (gods). Would he order you to disbelieve after you have submitted to Allah's Will? (Tafsir At-Tabari).

81. And (remember) when Allah took the Covenant of the Prophets, saying: "Take whatever I gave you from the Book and Hikmah (understanding of the Laws of Allah, etc.), and afterwards there will come to you a Messenger (Muhammad ) confirming what is with you; you must, then, believe in him and help him." Allah said: "Do you agree (to it) and will you take up My Covenant (which I conclude with you)?" They said: "We agree." He said: "Then bear witness; and I am with you among the witnesses (for this)."

82. Then whoever turns away after this, they are the Fasiqun (rebellious: those who turn away from Allah's Obedience).

83. Do they seek other than the religion of Allah (the true Islamic Monotheism worshipping none but Allah Alone), while to Him submitted all creatures in the heavens and the earth, willingly or unwillingly. And to Him shall they all be returned.

84. Say (O Muhammad ): "We believe in Allah and in what has been sent down to us, and what was sent down to Ibrahim (Abraham), Isma'il (Ishmael), Ishaque (Isaac), Ya'qub (Jacob) and Al-Asbat [the twelve sons of Ya'qub (Jacob)] and what was given to Musa (Moses), 'Iesa (Jesus) and the Prophets from their Lord. We make no distinction between one another among them and to Him (Allah) we have submitted (in Islam)."

85. And whoever seeks a religion other than Islam, it will never be accepted of him, and in the Hereafter he will be one of the losers.

86. How shall Allah guide a people who disbelieved after their belief and after they bore witness that the Messenger (Muhammad ) is true and after clear proofs had come unto them? And Allah guides not the people who are Zalimun (polytheists and wrong-doers).

was there something of disagreement in here? i see only supporting statements. there is even the reference to the Torah in line 50. confirming the works of the Torah which came before.

notice also that Allah refers to Jesus as The Messiah!

84 confirms that Jesus does not contradict any of the prophets and that list of prophets is the Jewish and Christian prophet line.

85 is one of Muhammad's lines.


i dont want you to think im suggesting that muslims convert to Christianity. but they are both believers is what im saying. God has Christians and Muslims on a separate line for a reason. the only thing that separates Muslims from Christians really is the words of Muhammad that have been included in the Quran. but all before Muhammad.. what words did the arabs go by? one thing is for certain. Christians are obeying a prophet CONFIRMED by the words of Allah God. so making war with them and treating them as slaves is making war with Allah. you know the bible has prophecy before the Quran came out that "some will persecute Christians for being Christians but that God would reward the murdered Christians for their good faith and deal with their murderers on the day of judgement?

the problem however. is that the Quran as it is today. the book you are reading, was founded AFTER Christ came and established the Bible with the New Testament. wasnt it God's will that Christianity survived and took over the globe? it was all part of the promise and prophecy and it all happened. everything laid out in my 10 points are thus agreeable. Jesus is surely a prophet as confirmed by Allah in the Quran. so the Christian bible is validated. Muhammad was validated by his own people as a prophet. and he did not perform any miracles as the past prophets did.

i ask you again to consider, what Quran, what belief was practiced before the inclusion of Muhammad's words by the Arab people? who is the Line of prophets defined by Allah in the Quran all called by name and shown who their fathers and children were? ull find that without the words that specifically come from Muhammad.. you are left with pure Christianity.. however not the whole story as we have it in the New Testament of the Christian Bible. everything the Quran says about Christ is in the Bible. it is a Christ specific Document that came before Muhammad's Quran. this is the point where Muslims try to defend by saying that islam existed before Christianity. but again.. it wouldve been Judaism under the Abrahamic Covenant, and culminating with the last prophet of the divine lineage.. Jesus to form Christianity. never in the history of the prophets has a prophet sought war against another prophet to kill him or his people who were believers obeying God and the prophets.

so be careful the words of belief do not tempt you to error, like the jews, and like isis.

[bluesclues]

^^^^

Something so....Just that I believe it to be the word of god

I really and truly don't think a guy who could not even read or write could come up with some of this stuff:
http://www.missionislam.com/science/book.htm

by 500ad, in a world that has centered it's time around the coming of Christ. all that was common knowledge to the ancients. previous cultures knew these things. Egypt knew these things. so it is no shocker just as Egypt's knowledge is passed in the bible, so does the Quran whose people were in Egypt and transmitted their knowledge orally for centuries before they began writing.. all came from the root cultures of ancient archaeology. Aristotle in 5AD knew the earth was a sphere and sat in the firmament of space. so did the ancients already know through the rotation of the stars. and even Sumeria knew of the planets in our solar system but say the knowledge was gained from alien visitors from the sky.

so no he didnt need to be able to read and write. he just had to have gotten that information taught to him and it's original source wouldve been the ancients. the kings/prophets of old time passing on that information.

[_Kingfish_]

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[_Kingfish_]

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[bluesclues]

Take a read if interested
http://www.quranmiracles.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/UNCHALLENGEABLE-MIRACLE.pdf

ok these are not miracles. and constitute alot of knowledge that was possessed in egypt. a miracle is a work of consciousness impacting our reality which defy logical explanation or even the laws of physics. these are portions of the knowledge of the ancients. it would be no surprise that this information was passed to the arab slaves in egypt before they left egypt to thrive in the wilderness. they had no writing and so transmitted their knowledge orally. Jesus' clear signs were walking on water, making the blind to see, commanding evil spirits out of possessed men, turning water into wine etc. it is recognized that Muhammad didnt do any of those. moses had a staff which he threw on the ground and it transformed into a snake before the pharaoh of egypt to demonstrate that his power and claim came from God. he also used mystical healing to heal his followers who were bitten by serpents in their journey. such is the miracle of the prophets. based on that judgement of prophethood, the Buddha also will fall into that category based on the very detailed scientific knowledge he put forward about the earth. but he as well was claimed to perform miracles. those are the true signs which prove a prophet has divine power from God.

egypt was a very scientific place. they also had the electric lightbulb, and basically i could look at all of those claims from the Quran and find them from the documents of knowledge from egypt. they knew a great deal about biology, the makeup of man, atoms and structure from khemetic studies etc. mathematics and writing began in sumeria, prior to egypt. so again, all prophets/priests/kings could write and do math. they were the instructors and teachers.

[RBphoto]

Can someone summarize what going on in here? People still quoting a book written by man as proof of god's existence?

I see the spongebob trailer but I believe in the absorption of the holy one since he rode the Hasselhoff. Are you a fellow Goofy Goober?