The Religion Discussion

[nareshseep]

Christianity doesn't tell you to love your father our you will get tortured. Christianity tells you that you have been a rebellious, disobedient, irreverent subject of the God that created you and demands no less that your total submission to Him, something much more than your father can demand of you.

But He still demonstrates His love for His rebellious creation by sending the Son in the form of man to live the life that we were supposed to live, take the punishment we deserve and impute righteousness to those who repent and believe in Him, that is the only way you can now love Him. That is not abuse, that is justice. Only a convicted criminal on his way to that gallows would disagree.


Conversely, replying to this post and before you click submit, you think that it was a random occurrence of keystrokes that made a sentence, is lying to yourself.
Believing that DNA, laws of the Universe, appearance of order and design in nature are all random occurrences is atheism.

Jesus being slaughtered is such a repeat of Abraham going to kill his son as a sacrifice. In this case the son actually dies. As we drink the "blood" and eat his "body" I am reminded that this is in no way cannibalistic but wait it actually is. An upgraded version of animal sacrifices, is this human sacrifice. The sheeps will believe anything that why they are the "lambs".

[Habit7]

Jesus being slaughtered is such a repeat of Abraham going to kill his son as a sacrifice.

Thats the point.

In the Old Testament there many types and shallows of the coming Christ one of them being what happened on that mount with Abraham and Isaac. Killing Isaac couldn't atone for their sin (because it was a sin) and the subsequent animal only temporarily covered their sin. However when the Father lead the Son up Calvary mount the Father didn't spare Him, but the Son absorbed the wrath of Father for those who would believe in Him.

Christianity is why both animal and human sacrifice is possibly abhorent to you, because in Christianity only the godman Jesus can satisfy God, nothing else.


BTW, who said carnibalism is wrong? Are you trying to impose your beliefs on me?

[meccalli]

Leave them, atheists are the greatest experts on the Bible without ever reading it...much less on context.
There are archaeologists that have shown that Mount moriah where Abraham willingly brought his son, was Golgotha, the very place Yeshua died. We have to pay respect for Abraham's obedience, God saw what his creation was willing to do for him. Likewise, God knew what had to be done and paid that price because of love. Substituting Yeshua, his son, in place of man to pay for all sin. As the ram was substituted for Isaac.
That's really great that you saw that link. Greatest keys of concept in the Bible. Its one of the shadows of things that was to come. You hit it on the head lol.
Again likewise- the passover meal another shadow changed into the Lord's Supper where instead of eating the bitter meat and bread of suffering(unleavened), We are offered new wine(representation of joy and the spirit) and the bread of rejoicing(leavened).

And Aba, you need more balls than you'll ever know to face up for your life to a creator in the hereafter than it takes to cover your eyes and ears and say God doesn't exist, leaving your mouth wide open to spew hate on people who care about what happens to your soul when you die.

[nareshseep]

I have read that sheit book, the buy-bull and as the name states its a collection of BS stories for the weak minded lamb that the are followers of that faith. The number one convincing argument for Atheism is the buy-bull. Stories of sacrifice that such a peaceful imaginary DOG will want from his followers. Bend down and kneel before your Lord so that he fills you in your .... and you know for a fact that he is cumming. Such a loving DOG that he lays conditions for his unconditional love. The lambs are nasty beings as I quote you " Christianity tells you that you have been a rebellious, disobedient, irreverent subject of the God that created you and demands no less that your total submission to Him, something much more than your father can demand of you. " You all have been bad ..Thats why you need shepherding otherwise if not for the treat of hell, they will kill and go all crazy. Meanwhile the atheist are not on a rampage in spite of the fact. You all need to comply to your imaginary DOG ... and be the lamb that you are. Atheists Lions will continue standing tall.

All the prophets have been homosexuals, and you all celebrate the ideas brought forward by these folks. Muhammed, Jesus were homosexuals, as you know back in those times women were considered disgusting. To them there was nothing purer than an innocent young male. The ancient religuous priest preferred little boys and this practice even continues to this day. The more religuous the person is the more the person skews towards same sex love. Hypocritical ideals is the order of the day, they speak against it but practice it.

I respect theist rights to have thier beliefs but I do not condone the propagation that thier belief is the only one to believe.

Ah boi, the topic of morality. What is right and what is wrong? Where should I start? Morality is a collection of codes/ laws based on agreement of persons within a group of people. The folks in the middle east practice Sharia Law. Those in India have honour killings. Is it right? No. Is it right to them? Apparently Yes. Do American Soldiers who are mostly Christian have any morality when they kill ? Hmm... According to them they are doing the right thing. But this goes in opposition to their Christian beliefs. So they kill and return home, receive medals for killing the bearded man. .
When a certain empire decided to re-conquer the world. They established thier brand of governance and beliefs systems upon the populace. It is easier to pass on your ideals to the populace if everyone believes the same thing. Hint... A man used the idea that the jews was responsible for the oppression of the masses. Hollywood is heavily Christian biased. When the average person who is fed by the media and ruled by a monarch who had some flavour of Christianity. Its a no brainer that to the average individuals/brainwashed sycophants that they will believe that Christianity is the "correct" belief. They are masters in circular reasoning, using the bible to justify the bible lol...

The majority of the trinbago population are descendants of slaves. To them whatever the slavemaster does, is the correct thing... The Africans lost what beliefs they had when they come across. The muslims and Indians seem to have held on to thier customs but they are slowly being converted to Christianity. Folks memories are short. When you stand for something, know the history of where it comes from. And is for that reason I will never own a bmobile phone. Not everyone has the gonads to oppose the establish system, And as ABA posted, Atheists have embraced that fact and do not need the crotch of the buy-bull to get by. In this end however the theist faiths will continue ... not that is correct, but because these are institutions that have been etched into our soceity and this will not change overnight. As was the case of slavery, then racism, then sexism, these were the belief systems that were thought to be correct at that point in time.

Now its the case of theism.

[meccalli]

Why would you read a book that doesn't interest you. Have you ever even considered God? Its pretty clear you've never read the Bible going on that first paragraph, a book which condemns that entire idea of porneia/ sexual immorality and perversion. Ever heard of Sodom and Gomorrah? Didn't think so. Speaking of sexual immorality, its seems your mind is rotting full of it as all your atheist mentality can conjure up is filth that pervades the essence of your hateful words.

Nothing is more ironic than an atheist coming into a thread about God where you weren't invited -to ridicule others about their belief and then proceeding to put forward evidence to why God doesn't exist, all the while now disagreeing with

do not condone the propagation that thier belief is the only one to believe.

Your hallmark atheist Gods from Britain, ridicule and belittle deists while haughtily stating their superiority in mental faculties and mentality

Atheists Lions will continue standing tall.

They do the very thing your doing in this thread, cram unbelief down others throats as you are.
You must be the worst of the lot, you seem overbearingly angry in all your posts. Some of my best friends are atheists and some of the nicest people I know, disgusting things like what you say would never come out of their mouths. Despite all of your hate towards God, he still loves you and wishes you to change.

God doesn't force himself on you, he offers man salvation, you take it or leave it. Its sacrifice and love that causes us to be the way we are, sheep under a shepherd that does not sleep.
Its funny you used lions to describe yourselves, the haughty male relies on others to do all the work while he lazes, eats his male offspring for greed of power until he is repaid by another younger lion that chases him off to die a miserable death. I can see alot of parallels in an atheist's attitude in regards to the science he depends on, the fellow man he constantly chews on and the miserable attitude that seems to bug around incessantly.

You know why people become Christians? Because they see something different about us that they would like to have. Money can't buy it and it isn't physical. The light of God. Its the only way that offers you a way to know God as a true friend, a father who you can personally know what he's like and what he wishes for us, he shows us our past, carries us through the present and tells us the future. A future so many are blind to, happening as I type this, predicted hundreds of years ago. Its amazing how some men have accepted everything free they are given, except the greatest gift of all.

[trini mk5]

Man gets the wisdom to interpret the Bible from God. I can attest to this fact. Anyone will be able to attest to it also if they want to find out for themselves. The meanings/teachings of the Bible doesn't change.

I literally cannot argue with that. Just want to know, which version of the bible is correct and why does God tell everyone something different?

because he instructs certain things to fulfill a purpose. when the purpose is fulfilled he changes the instruction. but some refuse to change. so he says to them.. ok u stay right there. i will take these people who are listening to me and guide them. and instructs the ones who dont listen to commit to their ways.

e.g today there are few animals in the world so to allow them to populate God says dont eat meat. and dont question his wisdom. but we too stupid to figure out that is the reason. when the animals have properly populated he says.. u have obeyed me, u can eat meat now. and freedom is retained. same for sex. man is allowed to have many mates and have sex like if it going out of style during a time of populating the earth. when the earth reaches a threshold he says ok now u must have only one wife and resist the temptation to lust(sex without purpose). wisdom is in seeing why the rules change, and why they were so in the first place.

This has to be the biggest pile of horse sheit I've read in a long time. I can't believe u actually believe in what you wrote there.

[nareshseep]

So now mecalli is stating I have never read his tol-e book. Most theists when questioned about their belief first defense is that ... you heathen have never read the book. Good try.... wheel and come again. As for filth I think of the imaginary Jesus bent over every time I masturbate. She is so sexy. I ROFL at your expression "Atheist Gods". Well If you are happy with your faith then that's great. I am truly happy for you. I took of the training wheels many moons ago. Ignorance is bliss... and a hell of a thing

This is the New Atheism Movement, we will not stand by and watch theist filth be propagated.
I will respect the theists, but I do not have to respect their beliefs. All beliefs will be challenged,
Not because of hate, but because it is in the best interest for global humanity.
You can spot the lion but you cannot spot the shepherd for what he really is ... nurturing you for the kill. When you do its too late.. But have no fear...
Change is cumming ...
ROAR!

I leave you this quote by Epicurus
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is impotent.
Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing?
Then why call him God?"

10610586_903462663015631_8891916182928452134_n.png (52.21 KiB) Viewed 2267 times

[meccalli]

wheel and come again

K, you did not, obvious now that you had to defend that.
On the topic of reading, here's why you should read some more.

Epicurus' work is all based on the Greek pantheon of Gods and their glorified nature and their disinterest in human affairs. If you actually STUDY(familiar to you?) his work, you'd realise he believed that good and evil were the sole doing of human beings themselves. All his followers ironically enough didn't care about religion because they believed the gods didn't care.
Yes, Epicurus was a Greek pagan having doubts in a god council that offered no hope to humanity...
unlike the one true God.(singular)

You really don't do your colleagues much justice with your pagan quotes,
How's it feel to follow a trend that was birthed by a Greek polytheist that formed into materialism and what you now are tryign to convince me is so just and cause worthy to ehhh//

in the best interest for global humanity.

?

[nareshseep]

Feels great and actually the opposite of Atheism is not Theism but Polytheism.

A theist is someone who believes in his god and rejects the rest of gods.
An Atheist just go one step further and doesn't believe in all gods.

So mecalli do you believe in ALL gods or just the christian version of god?

[meccalli]

?Isn't it obvious by now...

I don't think you realise what you just did. You quoted me a polytheistic philosopher to support atheism. Atheism came out of that system of polytheism partly.

Worst yet, its in the Bible. Oh wait, is this the same Bible you read or a different one??

18 A group of Epicurean and Stoic philosophers began to debate with him. Some of them asked, “What is this babbler trying to say?” Others remarked, “He seems to be advocating foreign gods.”

Acts 17:18

[nareshseep]

?Isn't it obvious by now...

I don't think you realise what you just did. You quoted me a polytheistic philosopher to support atheism. Atheism came out of that system of polytheism partly.

Worst yet, its in the Bible. Oh wait, is this the same Bible you read or a different one??

18 A group of Epicurean and Stoic philosophers began to debate with him. Some of them asked, “What is this babbler trying to say?” Others remarked, “He seems to be advocating foreign gods.”

Acts 17:18

From postings you are a Christian theist who by definition is an partial atheist: one who rejects all Gods except the Christian god. And excellent demonstration of circular logic being applied, its in the bible so it must be true. I also note the attempt to sidetrack the quote posed by discrediting the source as polytheistic as opposed to atheistic. This however does not change the idea presented or in your example refuse to entertain/sidetrack. What are outcomes of the greek gods, not merely myths? and this will soon become the fate of the Christian faith. All faiths eventually become myths.

[meccalli]

LOL, you shot yourself in the foot, that quote is not only funny but quite illogical assuming 2 premises that hold no characteristic of the God of the Bible, while omitting a third choice that those realities are put in place for a means to an end by a merciful God, but again, this had no place in his mind, he was an ignorant Pagan with no knowledge of that God. The same point that Paul pointed out to the philosophers.

23 For as I walked around and looked carefully at your objects of worship, I even found an altar with this inscription: to an unknown god. So you are ignorant of the very thing you worship—and this is what I am going to proclaim to you.

24 “The God who made the world and everything in it is the Lord of heaven and earth and does not live in temples built by human hands. 25 And he is not served by human hands, as if he needed anything. Rather, he himself gives everyone life and breath and everything else. 26 From one man he made all the nations, that they should inhabit the whole earth; and he marked out their appointed times in history and the boundaries of their lands. 27 God did this so that they would seek him and perhaps reach out for him and find him, though he is not far from any one of us. 28 ‘For in him we live and move and have our being.’[a] As some of your own poets have said, ‘We are his offspring.’[b]

29 “Therefore since we are God’s offspring, we should not think that the divine being is like gold or silver or stone—an image made by human design and skill. 30 In the past God overlooked such ignorance, but now he commands all people everywhere to repent. 31 For he has set a day when he will judge the world with justice by the man he has appointed. He has given proof of this to everyone by raising him from the dead.”

32 When they heard about the resurrection of the dead, some of them sneered, but others said, “We want to hear you again on this subject.

These people based their philosophy on the nature of their pantheism and false gods and what they were taught of their culture. Ignorance is indeed bliss, and yours is showing.
LOL at circular logic, you just quoted me a paradox, which is the epitome of circular logic. on top of that, why would you even go there?- Epicurus' work is detailed in Greek work for all to see.-which in this case corroborates with the Bible, that's one for me to remember.
I need to archive this lol.

[Chimera]

And Aba, you need more balls than you'll ever know to face up for your life to a creator in the hereafter than it takes to cover your eyes and ears and say God doesn't exist, leaving your mouth wide open to spew hate on people who care about what happens to your soul when you die.

sorry bro, you remind me of a little child who believes in santa clause,tooth fairy, boogie man etc.

you need to believe in magic/non existent beings like a little child

what is your belief in God but a mixture of santa clause and the boogie man?

get on God/Santa good list and you'll be rewarded, get him pissed and the boogie man will get you.



don't speak about having "balls" or courage when your whole life is based on a fictional book written by MEN, a flawed book that has how much dozens of versions?
Don't ever forget that the book was written by MEN. it's not a magical book that comes down from the heaven every sunday for your priest to read.


I see you spoke about sodom and gomorrah


"What was the sin of Sodom according to Genesis 19?

The text of Genesis 19 implies that God approved of Lot's behavior, even though he made an offer of his virgin daughters to be raped. This approval would have been extended to Lot's family as well. But God apparently had a fierce anger directed at the other inhabitants of the town. He destroyed Sodom with fire and brimstone (sulfur) dumped from above. According to the story, he killed all of the men and women of Sodom, as well as all the innocent children, infants, newborns, etc. who lived in the city. This is one more example of a theme that runs throughout the Bible from Genesis to Revelation: transferring the punishment from guilty people to innocent people. This is commonly called "scapegoating" and is condemned in all major religions."



there has been no evidence that these cities even ever existed, (except in your fictional book)
so you are justifying your fictional God, with your man-made fictional book, with fictional beliefs and sayings, by using a fictional city, from the same fictional book?


There are people in the world who believe neverland is real and peter pan is a God who will save them and keep them young forever and always happy


are you any different from one of these people?

[Slartibartfast]

I like this version of his quote more.

"Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent. ("not omnipotent" used instead of "impotent")
Is God able, but not willing?
Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing?
Then whence commeth evil?
Is he neither willing nor able?
Then why call him God"

First of all, in a scenario with only two choices that can be chosen independent of each other there can be only four outcomes (Yes,No : No,Yes : Yes,Yes : No,No) which is precisely what was done in Epicurus' argument.

Second of all, the context of the argument does nothing to discredit it. If you can't wrap your head around this concept just think of it as Naresheep now asking about it in a new context (i.e. a question from an atheist to a christian). The question is still completely valid.

Last of all, if you feel this is special enough to warrant a spot in your "victory" archive then I think you may have to revise the criteria of what constitutes a win. Allow me to show you where you went wrong.

EDIT: Your argument reminds me of Wimp-Lo from Kung Pow - Enter the Fist

LOL, you shot yourself in the foot, that quote is not only funny but quite illogical assuming 2 premises that hold no characteristic of the God of the Bible, while omitting a third choice that those realities are put in place...

a. A premise and a choice is not the same thing. The premise is "Two attributes of God is that he is not evil and is all powerful to stop all forms of evil" and the choices are the four questions.

...a third choice that those realities are put in place for a means to an end by a merciful God, but again, this had no place in his mind, he was an ignorant Pagan with no knowledge of that God. The same point that Paul pointed out to the philosophers.

b. The "third" choice you mentioned was covered in line 3
"Is He able but not willing?"
Your answer is Yes he is able but he is not willing because [evil] "realities are put in place for a means to an end"

[MG Man]

meccs boy, plenty assumptions....you'd be surprised how many atheists have read the bible..I read it the first time, looking for sense and inspiration...the second time, I read it for shitsand giggles
I won't bother saying I read the Koran because then I'd be taken to task for reading a translation....

[meccalli]

You can forget about semantics in your critique of my response, mr naresh likes to post any piece of atheistic dribble he finds on the internet without thinking as evident in this entire thread, it was very funny that's why i wanna hang onto it. There is no winner or loser, just a very sad situation where i'm trying to tell people they're missing out on the most amazing thing right in front of their faces, they just need to receive it. that's all.

(Yes,No : No,Yes : Yes,Yes : No,No)

Then whence commeth evil?

We just ignore that, and continue in a charade of yes and no?

Are you trying to find a resolution to an invalid argument, a paradox?
A thing like God, that science has been with odds at for hundreds of years is to be debated just as simple as that in a limited circle of choice and premise? The very God that some of the Greatest atheists have accepted, abandoning years of anti god study and philosophy. Not gonna dwell any more on a pagan passing thought based on zeus and athena.

Aba, you need to do your reading as well as some archaeological scripts, everything's there. Sodom and Gomorrah stands right where it was as intended for its purpose in Jude, a reminder to all. Lot knew what these men were, he was probably the most scared man on earth, do you think if they had accepted his daughters- the angels would have allowed it. It didn't even get that far. you like to use innocent kids. Theres a commandment given that the people should not give their children in the fires of Moloch. Yes these innocent people liked to heat up a bronze image till it was red hot and put their newborns on it. Innocent right? Temple maidens being used as factories for offerings right? Oh wait, santa claus- guess where he originated from? You know why God saved lot? A human being, a friend of God asked him to have mercy and save his nephew in the midst of a wicked people. God was just gonna nuke the place...

Mg, you think I don't know that. Atheists know the Bible better than some of us, what's funny is bandwagon atheists who never come to any reasonable conclusion for themselves come and uneducatedly parade themselves as the shining knight of atheism to hate on some poor, lost sheep.

[Chimera]

Aba, you need to do your reading as well as some archaeological scripts, everything's there. Sodom and Gomorrah stands right where it was as intended for its purpose in Jude, a reminder to all.

please show me a link with the archaeological scripts that show where sodom and gomorrah are

[meccalli]

http://www.accuracyingenesis.com/sodom.html
http://www.ancient-origins.net/human-or ... ence-00358

Simple google would suffice, it entails studying the locations of hebrew origin and tracing how places changed in name as it passed through history and control. Several archaeologists have come to the same conclusion of its location near the dead sea, and have found precisely what the scriptures say has been left behind.

[Slartibartfast]

I didn't ignore anything and the "charade of yes and no" was just meant to illustrate that all alternatives for the premise of the argument had been considered; it did not form a part of my argument. I was try to explain something that you clearly did not understand.

I don't see the significance of you quoting "Whence commeth evil?". That is the question that would be asked if God was able to stop evil and willing to stop evil.

According to you God is able to stop evil (all powerful) but not willing (he made this reality as a means to his end).

So are you therefore agreeing that your God is malevolent?

Not gonna dwell any more on a pagan passing thought based on zeus and athena.

Second of all, the context of the argument does nothing to discredit it. If you can't wrap your head around this concept just think of it as Naresheep now asking about it in a new context (i.e. a question from an atheist to a christian). The question is still completely valid.

[meccalli]

I don't see the significance of you quoting "Whence commeth evil?". That is the question that would be asked if God was able to stop evil and willing to stop evil.

He is capable of both, and the bible details exactly how he's doing it.

[Chimera]

lol quote a actual archaeologist or a certified website

not a bible website

[MG Man]

if he gonna use that as evidence of yuh religion, you should look at all the places in the hindu scriptures that exist as well.....latest is the town of Dwarka, which is well documented in the Gita...however, the location where Dwarka should be, is under water, and that bit of earth was last above water before civilized humans walked the earth....yet, Dwarka has been found under the sea, and the time of it's existence as an active city matches up with when it would have been dry land.....that is a far more compelling bit of evidence for hinduism than ruins that biblical writers used as the basis for their stories

[DFC]

lol @ the neverending beatup in here.

[meccalli]

lol quote a actual archaeologist or a certified website

not a bible website

If you read the two links, you find at least 4 archaeologists @ phD level, and only one has any relation to creationists. Ancient origins deals with all things ancient.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Neiman

I'm not using it to prove the Bible, Aba said it didn't exist.

[Slartibartfast]

I don't see the significance of you quoting "Whence commeth evil?". That is the question that would be asked if God was able to stop evil and willing to stop evil.

He is capable of both, and the bible details exactly how he's doing it.

Correct. According to you he is all powerful and therefore able to stop evil but he allows it to happen for "means to his end"

i.e. God is malevolent a.k.a. sort of an a-hole

[Chimera]

Archaeologist Steven Collins, using information from the Bible and archaeological evidence from the site of Tall el-Hammam in Jordan, suggested that he located Sodom to the northeast of the Dead Sea. However, his suggestion has not been accepted by other biblical archaeologists for two reasons: a) geographical misplacement and b) chronological misplacement. Therefore, if Tall el-Hammam is indeed Sodom then the Bible cannot be used as a rule for accurate dates and locations.


both articles only say "could be,might be, suggest"

again as i said, there is absolutely no evidence that they exist

fictional book,fictional cities, fictional passages, fictional god

its the same as telling a young child that peter pan is real and throughout his life you keep telling him that and only give him peter pan books to read and only expose him to people who believe in peter pan

[Slartibartfast]

http://www.accuracyingenesis.com/sodom.html
http://www.ancient-origins.net/human-or ... ence-00358

Simple google would suffice, it entails studying the locations of hebrew origin and tracing how places changed in name as it passed through history and control. Several archaeologists have come to the same conclusion of its location near the dead sea, and have found precisely what the scriptures say has been left behind.

Just a quick question.

Assuming the archaeologists found concrete evidence (that was peer reviewed by atheist peers) and that the evidence found confirmed Sodom and Gomorrah did exist and was destroyed in a great fire. My question is this.

What evidence do we have that when the story of Sodom and Gomorrah was written "after the fact" it was NOT then embellished by the writer to included supernatural explanations for the occurrence?


To break down the question. The story of Sodom and Gomorrah could have some truth to it and could have been recorded. The recorded story could have then been embellished to make it fit in with the rest of the crazy stories in the bible. What evidence do we have that the story written is entirely factual and not just part truths?

[MG Man]

yup...just like how they took the flood from the Sumerian account and made it into Noah's great flawwd

[Chimera]

yup...just like how they took the flood from the Sumerian account and made it into Noah's great flawwd

lets not forget this

[MG Man]

could have easily been Apolonius Christ instead of Hay-soo, had things been just slightly different