The Religion Discussion

[rspann]

Then some will say everything in that pic contains water. Which I agree but DNA is totally different. It all point to a common ancestor. You can call it "Adam" if you may but its not an human being its an organism..then the thumpers will jump in and say " yuh see the shitbook was correct ".
Hail the goddess Athena may she bless us with knowledge and insight. Hopefully you would see.

You clearly have no understanding of either the Bible nor the scientific theory you are defending. The bible in no way supports man as being related to the rest of creation as ordinary except in origin-.All creation however has a single designer. What you're referring to is Darwin's common descent and his tree of life analogy. Biologists have long been probing information that seems to show life had multiple origins according to different roots in kingdoms. If you're making a DNA argument in origins, you need to account for the evolution of DNA and its precursors that can explain the existence of rudimentary organisms like prokaryotes and archaea. What you also need to look at is how DNA operates within its mechanisms of coding and producing a given result. Sharing 99% of DNA makes nothing similar. A particular physiology is produced by the species' particular genome. Looking at the genome, reduces the gene similarity to about 60% in chimps, 80% in mice to us lol. Not to mention when you go down to the coding portions and non-coding regulatory areas, the similarity declines further. Let science figure out our 'junk' lol dna and then they can begin to map similarities.

Remember you are talking to a man who thinks Zeus is a "she".

[Slartibartfast]

If you really concerned
about an answer for your earlier question, spare 5 mins to get it here:

I think the presupposed hidden assumption made by atheist is that God is supposed to be all good and all knowing.
So why would he give an innocent child AIDS if it is just going to make him/her suffer. I am sure not all children born with AIDS are brought closer to God through it so why would he do that?

Note he did not state these morally sufficient reasons for causing suffering which is exactly what the boy was asking for. Brilliant sidestep.

Now what do you guys think about this video? A bit harsh but he raises some good points

[Slartibartfast]

if i remember correctly, the chance of life beginning here entirely by chance are .0001^26 or something ridcilous like that. you can take your gamble with that. ill take my chances with the invisible guy who is ruler and creator of multiple dimensions lol

Source?

google not very far away inno. lol i researched it years ago. the numbers are worse than i said actually. regardless of the very informative debate on the page, the numbers presented are scientifically acceptable but none can agree that they have the precise answer to the beginnings of life. only that they have varying numbers for various theories proposed.

infidels.org/library/modern/richard_carrier/addendaB.html

Cool. I know I could Google it but I wanted your source to make sure we talking about the same thing. True there are some small probabilities there, but they talking about random occurrences in nature of which there are a vast amount happening on this planet alone.

I wanted to know what is the probability of life starting on a planet.

This will be probability you mentioned x number of random chemical occurrences.

[bluesclues]

If you really concerned
about an answer for your earlier question, spare 5 mins to get it here:

I think the presupposed hidden assumption made by atheist is that God is supposed to be all good and all knowing.
So why would he give an innocent child AIDS if it is just going to make him/her suffer. I am sure not all children born with AIDS are brought closer to God through it so why would he do that?

Note he did not state these morally sufficient reasons for causing suffering which is exactly what the boy was asking for. Brilliant sidestep.

Now what do you guys think about this video? A bit harsh but he raises some good points

he said himself he basically has no obligation to be compassionate and excercises it. and also admits he is a religious intolerant. he then goes on to justify abuse of masses on the grounds solely of his personal opinionated disapproval of religious theism. sounds like hes going to world the better place respecting freedom eh??

you see how they does think they living moral lives on their own intellect and not even realize that their selfish solutions will not indeed help to make the world a better place but a more atrocious one? totally disregarding the emotional sensitivity of others beliefs to become the bully while claiming the victim. is anyone else seeing this perspective who is not religious?

[Habit7]

[youtube]wtx5GyP7i7w[youtube]


I think the presupposed hidden assumption made by atheist is that God is supposed to be all good and all knowing.
So why would he give an innocent child AIDS if it is just going to make him/her suffer. I am sure not all children born with AIDS are brought closer to God through it so why would he do that?

Note he did not state these morally sufficient reasons for causing suffering which is exactly what the boy was asking for. Brilliant sidestep.

Now what do you guys think about this video? A bit harsh but he raises some good points

[youtube]P4dSiHqpULk[youtube]

An assumption you are making is that there is an innocent child, man or woman anywhere. They might be innocent on a lateral level to us being that they did us no wrong, but on a vertical level to God, that child is a constituent of this fallen Earth. An Earth that has been fallen from the action of its federal head Adam by whose actions allowed for every facet of the world to be corrupted by sin, of which God promises to judge and recreate once again never to be corrupted. That is not to say that a child may have willingly and intentionally sinned thus committing an act worthy of being born with AIDS, but the child like all of us from the point of conception and life, entered into a corrupt world and is destined to die. So whether they die from suffering as an embryo, a child, middle aged adult or a senior we are all destined for death. AIDS might be the means for one, a quiet aneurysm for another, I really can't explain in every case the means why, but we all die because of our inherent sin. I don't see how this disproves God.

Again you keep using terms like "morally sufficient reasons" without stating your objective standard as an atheist you are accusing God of violating. In the Christian moral standards that God proclaims He sets Himself to, this action is very consistent and whether you or I like it or not, He is sovereign and we are subjects.

There is no sidestep (unlike the questions you refuse to answer a couple pages back viewtopic.php?f=4&t=267363&start=18330#p8199097 ). The question of suffering is solved in Jesus who suffered, died and rose again as a propitiation for those who would repent and put their trust in Him. God promises eternal life for rebels like us, you reject that. So don't say there is no answer for suffering because God provides the answer and even if there weren't, that still doesn't disprove God.

And you are right that guy does sound too harsh. He might really sound convincing too aside from the fact that it was six mins of him building up straw men and knocking it over. You can attest of all the straw men he put forward I never made any of those claims against you. So it is more or less irrelevant to me.

[nareshseep]

1410098023823.jpg

Then some will say everything in that pic contains water. Which I agree but DNA is totally different. It all point to a common ancestor. You can call it "Adam" if you may but its not an human being its an organism..then the thumpers will jump in and say " yuh see the shitbook was correct ".

Hail the goddess Athena may she bless us with knowledge and insight. Hopefully you would see.

luls. i am rh negative type O negative. meaning scientists cant connect my bloodtype to any monkey. i cannot be cloned, and can only accept rh negative blood, but my blood can be used in transfusions for all known bloodtypes(universal). google it.

edit:
https://answers.yahoo.com/question/inde ... 811AAsSpCx

You have the special alien blood that was brought to earth by aliens or probably a comet ricocheting of an alien world. When the comet from that galaxy was knocked loose by asteroid collisions into our solar system fragments broke off when approaching our sun and crashed into earth. The genetic material then mixed with earth organisms giving rise to your blood type. There were other blood types as well c, d, f, g, h, i , j , k , l , m, n , o till z , of all only a, b, o survived. All this is in the great books.

[nareshseep]

1410098023823.jpg

Then some will say everything in that pic contains water. Which I agree but DNA is totally different. It all point to a common ancestor. You can call it "Adam" if you may but its not an human being its an organism..then the thumpers will jump in and say " yuh see the shitbook was correct ".

Hail the goddess Athena may she bless us with knowledge and insight. Hopefully you would see.

I guess you have an idea of a rebuttal of the 98% (it's really 95%) chimp DNA point because i gave u before viewtopic.php?f=4&t=267363&start=15570#p7140723

But while you want to make assumptions of a common ancestors, you still have to explain how could complex information stored in DNA can come about by a natural process. Furthermore with existing DNA, what process does it get addition information to be improved (mutation just varies preexisting information, not add).

See preceding post the aliens , gods in the theists case started doing experiments on earth. This is documented in the bible. Mary had telepathic sex with the aliens (gods in the theist case) the alien sperm travelled through space and time and impregnated her. The aliens were masters in genetic engineering.

[Slartibartfast]

he said himself he basically has no obligation to be compassionate and excercises it. and also admits he is a religious intolerant. he then goes on to justify abuse of masses on the grounds solely of his personal opinionated disapproval of religious theism. sounds like hes going to world the better place respecting freedom eh??

you see how they does think they living moral lives on their own intellect and not even realize that their selfish solutions will not indeed help to make the world a better place but a more atrocious one? totally disregarding the emotional sensitivity of others beliefs to become the bully while claiming the victim. is anyone else seeing this perspective who is not religious?

I think he raised some good points but I totally agree with you on this one. No need for him to be that harsh and he is basically stating that ignorance when claiming reason enough to persecute someone.

Most (if not all) atheists I know (especially younger ones) focus more on tolerance and compassion. Like the old saying goes "A man convinced against his will is of the same opinion still". I think he is just old and too tired to be tolerant for this.

[Slartibartfast]

An assumption you are making is that there is an innocent child, man or woman anywhere. They might be innocent on a lateral level to us being that they did us no wrong, but on a vertical level to God, that child is a constituent of this fallen Earth. An Earth that has been fallen from the action of its federal head Adam by whose actions allowed for every facet of the world to be corrupted by sin, of which God promises to judge and recreate once again never to be corrupted. That is not to say that a child may have willingly and intentionally sinned thus committing an act worthy of being born with AIDS, but the child like all of us from the point of conception and life, entered into a corrupt world and is destined to die. So whether they die from suffering as an embryo, a child, middle aged adult or a senior we are all destined for death. AIDS might be the means for one, a quiet aneurysm for another, I really can't explain in every case the means why, but we all die because of our inherent sin. I don't see how this disproves God. The suffering part. The suffering part makes all the difference. So you believe a life that consists of nothing more than slow, painful death of a child brought on by infectious diseases due to the effects of AIDS is exactly the same as a life of a man that is allowed to grow up, take drugs, higher hundreds of prostitutes (basically Charlie Sheen) and die a quick painless death due to a drug overdose? Also, are you then saying that it is morally acceptable to punish one man for another's wrongdoing? That's like me telling your child that once he reaches 18 he has to spend five years in jail because you were caught sniffing coke 30 years ago. If God is supposed to be morally superior, shouldn't his morals be at least equal to ours?

Again you keep using terms like "morally sufficient reasons" without stating your objective standard as an atheist you are accusing God of violating. In the Christian moral standards that God proclaims He sets Himself to, this action is very consistent and whether you or I like it or not, He is sovereign and we are subjects. Life is circumstantial bro. Note that I quoted "morally sufficient reasons" from that guy's mouth. Those are his words not mine. I am saying I don't know what those reasons are, just like the kid that asked what those reasons are. But answer given was basically "Yes, there are reasons".

If you break it down and think about it, God kills every person that has ever lived... But though shalt not kill. God impregnated Mary... But though shalt not commit adultery. However, the reason for this is because of the circumstance. God can do these thing because he created everything.

There is no sidestep The boy asked what were the reasons for innocents suffering... Dude replied God has morally sufficient reasons but doesn't state what they are. (unlike the questions you refuse to answer a couple pages back viewtopic.php?f=4&t=267363&start=18330#p8199097 ). Sorry, I'll take a look back and answer. The question of suffering is solved in Jesus who suffered, died and rose again as a propitiation for those who would repent and put their trust in Him. Wait, I thought the suffering was to atone for our sins, not to justify him torturing innocent children in the future. Please elaborate. God promises eternal life for rebels like us, you reject that. So don't say there is no answer for suffering because God provides the answer and even if there weren't, that still doesn't disprove God.

And you are right that guy does sound too harsh. He might really sound convincing too aside from the fact that it was six mins of him building up straw men and knocking it over. You can attest of all the straw men he put forward I never made any of those claims against you. So it is more or less irrelevant to me.Just providing some perspective for you guys. That is what an intolerant atheist looks like and the thinking behind being one. It's the same thing as intolerant theists (like fundamentalists etc.) Don't worry, even I was kind of put off by the overly smug look on his face.

[Slartibartfast]

Just to clarify, what are some examples of these states of institutionalised institutions?

http://www.trinituner.com/v3/forums/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=267363&hilit=Korea&start=18120#p8175986 Right this was when you wanted to argue that all atheists were the same without arguing that all theists are the same. I didn't respond to this because you lacked the understanding of what opposites are.

1. There are lots of examples moral codes being developed without God (outside of Nazi Germany and North Korea) and God cannot enforce his "given" rights. So there is no point.

2. Man does take away. Men have killed their sons (Eg. Marvin Gaye was killed by his father who was a minister). Where was God for this? What did God do?

1. Lots of examples like...? How about a person that came up with the golden rule 500 years before Jesus.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confucius#Ethics
Even though he came up with it, I will not say he invented it because it may have existed independently before him.

2. Where did God say that we don't live our lives as free moral agents who will all give account of our lives when we die and if we are perfect like Jesus we are rewarded with heaven and if we have sinned (like patricide) we are punished in hell? Any proof of heaven or hell?

[nareshseep]

Then some will say everything in that pic contains water. Which I agree but DNA is totally different. It all point to a common ancestor. You can call it "Adam" if you may but its not an human being its an organism..then the thumpers will jump in and say " yuh see the shitbook was correct ".
Hail the goddess Athena may she bless us with knowledge and insight. Hopefully you would see.

You clearly have no understanding of either the Bible nor the scientific theory you are defending. The bible in no way supports man as being related to the rest of creation as ordinary except in origin-.All creation however has a single designer. What you're referring to is Darwin's common descent and his tree of life analogy. Biologists have long been probing information that seems to show life had multiple origins according to different roots in kingdoms. If you're making a DNA argument in origins, you need to account for the evolution of DNA and its precursors that can explain the existence of rudimentary organisms like prokaryotes and archaea. What you also need to look at is how DNA operates within its mechanisms of coding and producing a given result. Sharing 99% of DNA makes nothing similar. A particular physiology is produced by the species' particular genome. Looking at the genome, reduces the gene similarity to about 60% in chimps, 80% in mice to us lol. Not to mention when you go down to the coding portions and non-coding regulatory areas, the similarity declines further. Let science figure out our 'junk' lol dna and then they can begin to map similarities.

You are entitled to your view as I an entitled to my view. You believe my view to be incorrect and I believe my view to be correct. I believe your views to be wrong and my views to be correct.

We can theorise about the past but we cannot be 100% certain about what happen in the past. The validity of written statements depreciates with time. When the time machine is built only then we can confirm what transpired. And the truth will be revealed. God was alive in the past.. We have since buried him with our materialistic greed.

[nareshseep]

Then some will say everything in that pic contains water. Which I agree but DNA is totally different. It all point to a common ancestor. You can call it "Adam" if you may but its not an human being its an organism..then the thumpers will jump in and say " yuh see the shitbook was correct ".
Hail the goddess Athena may she bless us with knowledge and insight. Hopefully you would see.

You clearly have no understanding of either the Bible nor the scientific theory you are defending. The bible in no way supports man as being related to the rest of creation as ordinary except in origin-.All creation however has a single designer. What you're referring to is Darwin's common descent and his tree of life analogy. Biologists have long been probing information that seems to show life had multiple origins according to different roots in kingdoms. If you're making a DNA argument in origins, you need to account for the evolution of DNA and its precursors that can explain the existence of rudimentary organisms like prokaryotes and archaea. What you also need to look at is how DNA operates within its mechanisms of coding and producing a given result. Sharing 99% of DNA makes nothing similar. A particular physiology is produced by the species' particular genome. Looking at the genome, reduces the gene similarity to about 60% in chimps, 80% in mice to us lol. Not to mention when you go down to the coding portions and non-coding regulatory areas, the similarity declines further. Let science figure out our 'junk' lol dna and then they can begin to map similarities.

Remember you are talking to a man who thinks Zeus is a "she".

Can you prove or give evidence that God/Zeus is a him ?

[rspann]

Zeus was the father of the gods in in Greek mythology, being a father implies that he is a "he". Or I could do what Rowley do Hema, and ask you how you know Zeus is a "she".

[nareshseep]

Zeus was the father of the gods in in Greek mythology, being a father implies that he is a "he". Or I could do what Rowley do Hema, and ask you how you know Zeus is a "she".

It was passed down through stories from generation to generation .... When it was written into books, It was changed from her to him, but the correction is actually Goddess Zeus. This information has been tried to be kept hidden by the dark forces plaguing mankind. If you perform transcendental meditation after being baptised in the holy waters of the caroni river and perform a haj on foot to el tucuche then bow to the setting sun. It will all be revealed. Upon sunrise one must throw jhal to the north to close off the SSH connection with the ether world. You are now informed and if you do not comply you will be tormented eternally in the under world.


Everything written in ancient times is true and is not a mechanism to control the populace.

Praise Zeus almighty..... Fire and brimstones for the heathens and worshippers of false dogs.

[rspann]

Zeus was the father of the gods in in Greek mythology, being a father implies that he is a "he". Or I could do what Rowley do Hema, and ask you how you know Zeus is a "she".

It was passed down through stories from generation to generation .... When it was written into books, It was changed from her to him, but the correction is actually Goddess Zeus. This information has been tried to be kept hidden by the dark forces plaguing mankind. If you perform transcendental meditation after being baptised in the holy waters of the caroni river and perform a haj on foot to el tucuche then bow to the setting sun. It will all be revealed. Upon sunrise one must throw jhal to the north to close off the SSH connection with the ether world. You are now informed and if you do not comply you will be tormented eternally in the under world.


Everything written in ancient times is true and is not a mechanism to control the populace.

Praise Zeus almighty..... Fire and brimstones for the heathens and worshippers of false dogs.

I now fully understand your thinking,really.

[bluefete]

Zeus was the father of the gods in in Greek mythology, being a father implies that he is a "he". Or I could do what Rowley do Hema, and ask you how you know Zeus is a "she".

It was passed down through stories from generation to generation .... When it was written into books, It was changed from her to him, but the correction is actually Goddess Zeus. This information has been tried to be kept hidden by the dark forces plaguing mankind. If you perform transcendental meditation after being baptised in the holy waters of the caroni river and perform a haj on foot to el tucuche then bow to the setting sun. It will all be revealed. Upon sunrise one must throw jhal to the north to close off the SSH connection with the ether world. You are now informed and if you do not comply you will be tormented eternally in the under world.


Everything written in ancient times is true and is not a mechanism to control the populace.

Praise Zeus almighty..... Fire and brimstones for the heathens and worshippers of false dogs.

You would make a good science fiction writer.

[meccalli]

You are entitled to your view as I an entitled to my view. You believe my view to be incorrect and I believe my view to be correct.

The irony of all these atheists attacking God in this thread and you making that statement now of all times, might I refer you to page 1? The Op intended this to be a thread for believers to testify of their personal experiences, but of course atheists have the tremendously nagging urge to spout off their ultimate truths and fulfil their duty to mankind to belittle the' weak minded.' Why not leave us in our ignorance if you're satisfied you won't ever change your view and neither will us? What's the point of going on in useless fun poking and superfluous attitudes?

[rspann]

You are entitled to your view as I an entitled to my view. You believe my view to be incorrect and I believe my view to be correct.

The irony of all these atheists attacking God in this thread and you making that statement now of all times, might I refer you to page 1? The Op intended this to be a thread for believers to testify of their personal experiences, but of course atheists have the tremendously nagging urge to spout off their ultimate truths and fulfil their duty to mankind to belittle the' weak minded.' Why not leave us in our ignorance if you're satisfied you won't ever change your view and neither will us? What's the point of going on in useless fun poking and superfluous attitudes?[/quote


I never understood their need to even read a thread about something they don't believe in and then having read it jumped in with the opposite to what the thread is about. I see more sense in starting up an atheist thread and discussing it to their hearts desire.

[bluefete]

You are entitled to your view as I an entitled to my view. You believe my view to be incorrect and I believe my view to be correct.

The irony of all these atheists attacking God in this thread and you making that statement now of all times, might I refer you to page 1? The Op intended this to be a thread for believers to testify of their personal experiences, but of course atheists have the tremendously nagging urge to spout off their ultimate truths and fulfil their duty to mankind to belittle the' weak minded.' Why not leave us in our ignorance if you're satisfied you won't ever change your view and neither will us? What's the point of going on in useless fun poking and superfluous attitudes?[/quote


I never understood their need to even read a thread about something they don't believe in and then having read it jumped in with the opposite to what the thread is about. I see more sense in starting up an atheist thread and discussing it to their hearts desire.

It will not be as much fun for them as bashing God.

[rspann]

Anyone ever tried to understand the power of the Holy bible? It's been around so long and although it has been attacked at different times in sundry manners, it still exists and has a power of it's own. No other publication can hearten, console, advise or even change peoples' lives. It tells man about God and his duty to Him. Is there anyway that someone can read(study) the Holy Bible and come to the conclusion that it is just another book, or that God doesn't exist?

[bluefete]

When the parrots come home to roost on evenings, it is music to the ears as they say their prayers to God.

Likewise when they leave on mornings.

It makes my pores raise every time.

[nareshseep]

Anyone ever tried to understand the power of the Holy bible? It's been around so long and although it has been attacked at different times in sundry manners, it still exists and has a power of it's own. No other publication can hearten, console, advise or even change peoples' lives. It tells man about God and his duty to Him. Is there anyway that someone can read(study) the Holy Bible and come to the conclusion that it is just another book, or that God doesn't exist?

Its an outdated book, minus the belief in an imaginary creature, its a good collection of stories and articles on how to live, it even has chapters on how to treat your slave, which in this modern day is a necessity. The difference between the dollars in your pocket and the dollars in monopoly is the belief by the individual and to a bigger extent society. It was not by chance the sheit book survived, if you destroy other cultures and traditions to spread yours eventually by force it will be the belief in majority.

The judgement of criminals who has committed a crime is based on bribery, circumstantial evidence and the experience of the defense attorney. In most cases the person who has committed the crime is often set free to live his/her life. This goes down in history. What is written in history cannot be trusted, the dead tell no tales, unless you go to a witch doctor and communicate through them to the lost souls.In the bible there is a statement by the apostle Dale Carnegie "A man convinced against his will , Is of the same opinion still" . A next quote by Pundit Robert Wicks is “We must be willing to sit on the edge of mystery and unlearn what has helped guide us in the past but is no longer useful.” Its amazing though children tend to have the same faith as their parents in the free will's shadow of indoctrination. Rabbi Anais Nin said “We don’t see things as they are, we see things as we are” The quotes can be found in the book of Proverbs in the New Trinidad version 2015 of the bible.

Consider the statements
1. He who hear voices has the responsibility to spread the message.
2. He who hear the voice of God has the responsibility to spread the message.
3. He who heard the voices in the time of hay-suse has the responsibility to spread the message
4. He who heard the voices yesterday has the responsibility to spread the message

Are all these statements true?

[Slartibartfast]

It will not be as much fun for them as bashing God.

This is very true. Atheism is defined as the lack of theism so if there is no theism present then atheism cannot exist. But don't feel bad, even with all the "bashing" we still learn a lot that helps us remain tolerant.

Now a science thread would be a lot more fun.

[ruffneck_12]

What would be even more fun, is a thread about drugs

[nareshseep]

You are entitled to your view as I an entitled to my view. You believe my view to be incorrect and I believe my view to be correct.

The irony of all these atheists attacking God in this thread and you making that statement now of all times, might I refer you to page 1? The Op intended this to be a thread for believers to testify of their personal experiences, but of course atheists have the tremendously nagging urge to spout off their ultimate truths and fulfil their duty to mankind to belittle the' weak minded.' Why not leave us in our ignorance if you're satisfied you won't ever change your view and neither will us? What's the point of going on in useless fun poking and superfluous attitudes?[/quote


I never understood their need to even read a thread about something they don't believe in and then having read it jumped in with the opposite to what the thread is about. I see more sense in starting up an atheist thread and discussing it to their hearts desire.

And I repeat myself yet again, You are entitled to your view as I am.
To me it is detriment to the future of society to continue prolonging these archaic views of an imaginary creature. And it is my duty according to the the scriptures to go forth and spread the knowledge to help humankind. By doing this I give you the option to depart from your treacherous ways and enter the kingdom of Valhalla. For it is written.



We are all atheist of majority of the Gods, some of us go one step further.
Unless a person believes in all of the Gods. Then that person is not an atheist.Partial Atheists are those who only believe in their God but dont believe in the other Gods. Subscribers to a particular religion or faith exhibit herd mentality / group thinking that there God is the only God. If they do think like this then they think are theistic about their faith yet atheistic about other faiths.

[meccalli]

^No wonder they have 'churches' now where they can gather and spew hate among friends. In an effort to destroy a foundation, they themselves have become that which they fear the most-religious.

[Habit7]

An assumption you are making is that there is an innocent child, man or woman anywhere. They might be innocent on a lateral level to us being that they did us no wrong, but on a vertical level to God, that child is a constituent of this fallen Earth. An Earth that has been fallen from the action of its federal head Adam by whose actions allowed for every facet of the world to be corrupted by sin, of which God promises to judge and recreate once again never to be corrupted. That is not to say that a child may have willingly and intentionally sinned thus committing an act worthy of being born with AIDS, but the child like all of us from the point of conception and life, entered into a corrupt world and is destined to die. So whether they die from suffering as an embryo, a child, middle aged adult or a senior we are all destined for death. AIDS might be the means for one, a quiet aneurysm for another, I really can't explain in every case the means why, but we all die because of our inherent sin. I don't see how this disproves God. The suffering part. The suffering part makes all the difference. So you believe a life that consists of nothing more than slow, painful death of a child brought on by infectious diseases due to the effects of AIDS is exactly the same as a life of a man that is allowed to grow up, take drugs, higher hundreds of prostitutes (basically Charlie Sheen) and die a quick painless death due to a drug overdose? Also, are you then saying that it is morally acceptable to punish one man for another's wrongdoing? That's like me telling your child that once he reaches 18 he has to spend five years in jail because you were caught sniffing coke 30 years ago. If God is supposed to be morally superior, shouldn't his morals be at least equal to ours?

Again you keep using terms like "morally sufficient reasons" without stating your objective standard as an atheist you are accusing God of violating. In the Christian moral standards that God proclaims He sets Himself to, this action is very consistent and whether you or I like it or not, He is sovereign and we are subjects. Life is circumstantial bro. Note that I quoted "morally sufficient reasons" from that guy's mouth. Those are his words not mine. I am saying I don't know what those reasons are, just like the kid that asked what those reasons are. But answer given was basically "Yes, there are reasons".

If you break it down and think about it, God kills every person that has ever lived... But though shalt not kill. God impregnated Mary... But though shalt not commit adultery. However, the reason for this is because of the circumstance. God can do these thing because he created everything.

There is no sidestep The boy asked what were the reasons for innocents suffering... Dude replied God has morally sufficient reasons but doesn't state what they are. (unlike the questions you refuse to answer a couple pages back viewtopic.php?f=4&t=267363&start=18330#p8199097 ). Sorry, I'll take a look back and answer. The question of suffering is solved in Jesus who suffered, died and rose again as a propitiation for those who would repent and put their trust in Him. Wait, I thought the suffering was to atone for our sins, not to justify him torturing innocent children in the future. Please elaborate. God promises eternal life for rebels like us, you reject that. So don't say there is no answer for suffering because God provides the answer and even if there weren't, that still doesn't disprove God.

And you are right that guy does sound too harsh. He might really sound convincing too aside from the fact that it was six mins of him building up straw men and knocking it over. You can attest of all the straw men he put forward I never made any of those claims against you. So it is more or less irrelevant to me.Just providing some perspective for you guys. That is what an intolerant atheist looks like and the thinking behind being one. It's the same thing as intolerant theists (like fundamentalists etc.) Don't worry, even I was kind of put off by the overly smug look on his face.

I don’t believe your new scenario of a child compared to a profligate man is the same. Both are fallen creatures of fallen world and will die, however the man’s willful determinate sin will cause him to be judged by a holy eternal God and he will be punished eternally. The child if she hasn’t reached to a maturity level of conscientious, willful, determinate sin, she will be afforded the mercy of Christ and receive eternal life. You wrongfully assume that her having AIDS as a punishment, even from another’s wrongdoing. But is not a punishment, it is God’s sovereign providence to bring about His will. He made you and I to be born in T&T while someone else in Venezuela or Haiti. There are obvious benefits to being born in T&T than other places, along with some drawbacks. So some children are born healthy, some have a congenital heart problem, some with AIDS, you might think the healthier child is better off but he will have a lifetime to accumulate sin, be guilty before God and hopeful find refuge in Christ before he faces the death we all must face. A terminally ill child stand the chance of being snatched from this world before his fleshly corruption is manifested in his soul’s corruption as evidenced in willful disobedience to his Creator.

Acts 17: 26-31 And he made from one man every nation of mankind to live on all the face of the earth, having determined allotted periods and the boundaries of their dwelling place, that they should seek God, and perhaps feel their way toward him and find him. Yet he is actually not far from each one of us, for “‘In him we live and move and have our being’; as even some of your own poets have said, “‘For we are indeed his offspring.’ Being then God’s offspring, we ought not to think that the divine being is like gold or silver or stone, an image formed by the art and imagination of man. The times of ignorance God overlooked, but now he commands all people everywhere to repent, because he has fixed a day on which he will judge the world in righteousness by a man whom he has appointed; and of this he has given assurance to all by raising him from the dead.”

God kills every person that ever lives because He holy (separate) and perfect, and we are infected with an epidemic disease called sin. God is morally just in eradicating sin and those who bear it as is a farmer who kills his entire herd at the outbreak of foot and mouth disease, as judge who sentences a criminal to death for committing vile and heinous crimes, as you are when have typed out a sentence and choose to delete it because it was your creation. God doesn’t subject Himself to our or anyone else’s moral standards, He is the moral standard, so when we unjustly take the life of someone else we violate His moral standard because He doesn’t do that, that is why He commands thou shall not murder. God impregnated Mary supernaturally, not with sex; hence Jesus was born of a virgin. Adultery is violation a covenant between a man and a woman, God doesn’t break covenants, that is why adultery is wrong. God doesn't violate His moral standard because His moral standard doesn’t dwell outside Him as it does with you and me, God’s moral standard is who He is.

God doesn’t torture an innocent anyone. There was one innocent person that walked this earth and He only died by bearing the sins of those who would believe in Him under the wrath of the Father. We all inherit our corruption from Adam who federally represented all of us in the Garden. We didn’t inherit his sin in our account but we inherited the result of his actions in the same way we all inherit result of our parents’ actions whether we like it or not. Likewise Jesus, a second Adam, resorted what Adam lost which was communion with God and sinless righteousness. One can inherit Jesus’ work through repentance and faith.

The torment God truly gives is not by any means on this world. In fact, all the apostles died as martyrs, except for John, he survived a vat of boiling oil and had his eyes dug out, this was before he wrote the book of Revelation. Despite what many prosperity preachers claim, being a Christian promises that you will be persecuted (2 Timothy 3:12). So living a hard life isnt just about who sinned that caused it. The torment God truly gives are for those who reject God’s law whether written in the Bible or on their conscience, and willfully rebel against their Creator. That torment is place of eternal conscious torture for both His fallen angels and for sinful man. But God offers mercy though His Son, so repent and believe.

And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather fear him who can destroy both soul and body in hell.
Jesus of Nazareth (circa 30 AD)

[ruffneck_12]

Allyuh doh get fed up typing?

lets just stop this war between Theism and atheism and who religion is the best

Lets all just sit at the same table and eat some good food and laugh about Joan Rivers face

[nareshseep]

^No wonder they have 'churches' now where they can gather and spew hate among friends. In an effort to destroy a foundation, they themselves have become that which they fear the most-religious.

Do we condemn all Muslims because of a few terrorists? Do we condemn all Jews because of the so called attacks of Israel on Palestine? In all sects there are the extremists. Atheism is no different.

[bluesclues]

Zeus was the father of the gods in in Greek mythology, being a father implies that he is a "he". Or I could do what Rowley do Hema, and ask you how you know Zeus is a "she".

It was passed down through stories from generation to generation .... When it was written into books, It was changed from her to him, but the correction is actually Goddess Zeus. This information has been tried to be kept hidden by the dark forces plaguing mankind. If you perform transcendental meditation after being baptised in the holy waters of the caroni river and perform a haj on foot to el tucuche then bow to the setting sun. It will all be revealed. Upon sunrise one must throw jhal to the north to close off the SSH connection with the ether world. You are now informed and if you do not comply you will be tormented eternally in the under world.


Everything written in ancient times is true and is not a mechanism to control the populace.

Praise Zeus almighty..... Fire and brimstones for the heathens and worshippers of false dogs.

I now fully understand your thinking,really.

ROFL