The Religion Discussion

[nareshseep]

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Interesting video

[meccalli]

Facts vs Facts, seems credible.

[pioneer]

How allah eh helpin he ppl?

[RASC]

Death serving Allah is worth it and a almost guaranteed entry into Heaven.

[kerwinishere]

So if I bomb up a building while I in it and say in the name of Allah will I go to heaven?

[The Paleontologist]

No, suicide is forbidden in islam. It's one of the worst things a muslim can do.

[Slartibartfast]

But do suicide bombers know that.

[bluefete]

No, suicide is forbidden in islam. It's one of the worst things a muslim can do.

You are serious, right???

[bluefete]

10478213_10152261720748063_6386370145397440346_n.jpg

what pagan ting you talking about? "God" give us dominion over the earth, it's our bit(h!!!

Does dominion mean to destroy?

what does history show?

What history shows and what it means are two different things.

[The Paleontologist]

Who anyone can show me where in quran and ahadith where suicide is permitted. I don't know what those suicide bombers, taliban and al qaeda are following, but it certainly isn't islam. For example, islam holds women to the highest regard, a man is never allowed to hit his wife under any circumstances but these guys oppress women left, right and centre

[RASC]

Holds women in the highest regards??

What religion is this again???

[meccalli]

Martyrdom.....

[abducted]

Who anyone can show me where in quran and ahadith where suicide is permitted. I don't know what those suicide bombers, taliban and al qaeda are following, but it certainly isn't islam. For example, islam holds women to the highest regard, a man is never allowed to hit his wife under any circumstances but these guys oppress women left, right and centre

have you read the Quran?

Quran Surat An-Nisā' (The Women) 4:34
"Men are in charge of women by [right of] what Allah has given one over the other and what they spend [for maintenance] from their wealth. So righteous women are devoutly obedient, guarding in [the husband's] absence what Allah would have them guard. But those [wives] from whom you fear arrogance - [first] advise them; [then if they persist], forsake them in bed; and [finally], strike them. But if they obey you [once more], seek no means against them. Indeed, Allah is ever Exalted and Grand."

Sahih Muslim Book 004, Hadith Number 2127
The Prophet hit his wife Aisha on her chest which caused her pain:
Aisha narrates "He [Prophet Muhammad (may peace be upon him)] struck me on the chest which caused me pain, and then said: Did you think that Allah and His Apostle would deal unjustly with you?"

According to scriptural Hadith sources, Aisha was six or seven years old when she was married to Muhammad and nine when the marriage was consummated.

[janfar]

next video

U deleted ur old profile or just changed the name???

[fouljuice]

He say he couldn't access it so he make a new one.

[Habit7]

Who anyone can show me where in quran and ahadith where suicide is permitted. I don't know what those suicide bombers, taliban and al qaeda are following, but it certainly isn't islam. For example, islam holds women to the highest regard, a man is never allowed to hit his wife under any circumstances but these guys oppress women left, right and centre

Wow either you are blatantly lying or you like a fundamental knowledge of Islam

Syrah 4:34 Sahih International
Men are in charge of women by [right of] what Allah has given one over the other and what they spend [for maintenance] from their wealth. So righteous women are devoutly obedient, guarding in [the husband's] absence what Allah would have them guard. But those [wives] from whom you fear arrogance - [first] advise them; [then if they persist], forsake them in bed; and [finally], strike them. But if they obey you [once more], seek no means against them. Indeed, Allah is ever Exalted and Grand.

Older translations have "scourge them"

[Slartibartfast]

Hmmm. So is it OK to beat your wife if she is not obedient? Also, what if a woman pays for her own "maintenance" as a lot of women have jobs today? What if the man doesn't have a job, does that mean the woman will have control over him and can strike him for disobedience?

The funny thing is that most Muslims I talk to will tell you about how pure Islam is. Unlike the bible, where there are many translations, followings and beliefs; Islam has only one book, still in its original text and with the same teaching handed down, unaltered through generations. Then why is it that Muslims have such varying beliefs if they use the same book? And how do you know who is right?

Some believe suicide bombing is right, some believe beating a woman is wrong, some think that education should be given only to men etc.

I have also never heard a Muslim say "No, my practices aren't pure or correct" it is always "My group of Muslims are the only ones that follow the Quoran properly".

[Habit7]

The funny thing is that most Muslims I talk to will tell you about how pure Islam is. Unlike the bible, where there are many translations, followings and beliefs; Islam has only one book, still in its original text and with the same teaching handed down, unaltered through generations.

Again I think you are mislead too. Islam doesn't only have one book, there are many translations and interpretations each vying to claim to be the most correct. While dissent is more tightly enforced than Christianity, variant of views can lead to punishment or death.

[Slartibartfast]

If that is the case then I have been misled several times. When comparing christianity to islam the fact that islam has remained unchanged since its inception is always one of the main selling points on its superiority over other religions.

I was not raised in islam so my knowledge of it is severely limited.

[Habit7]

What in Christianity has changed?

[Slartibartfast]

What in Christianity has changed?

Now if nothing changed then there would be only one Christian denomination. However, things did change. Things that were significant enough for a sect of Christianity to break off and form their own denomination. Now, it is not every time that something changed that a new denomination was formed but every time a new denomination was formed, it was because something changed.

Have a look at the wikipedia page below for a quick overview of the differennt Christian denominations that exist today, and know that this only captures changes significant enough to break away.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Christian_denominations

Now which one it the true form of Christianity? Surely they can't all be right.

[civicman]

The funny thing is that most Muslims I talk to will tell you about how pure Islam is. Unlike the bible, where there are many translations, followings and beliefs; Islam has only one book, still in its original text and with the same teaching handed down, unaltered through generations.

Again I think you are mislead too. Islam doesn't only have one book, there are many translations and interpretations each vying to claim to be the most correct. While dissent is more tightly enforced than Christianity, variant of views can lead to punishment or death.

There is one quran.
There are translations into different
Languages which is not considered the quran because translations can bring new meanings like what happened to the bible.
The original text of the bible is not recited by most people today.
Hence all the confusion.

[Habit7]

Even a couple of years after the death and resurrection of Jesus denominations were cropping up even while the New Testament was being compiled:

1 Corinthians 1:11-13 ESV

For it has been reported to me by Chloe’s people that there is quarreling among you, my brothers. What I mean is that each one of you says, “I follow Paul,” or “I follow Apollos,” or “I follow Cephas,” or “I follow Christ.” Is Christ divided? Was Paul crucified for you? Or were you baptized in the name of Paul?

So the ideal that early Christianity or Islam had no dissention is fanciful. All one needs is two ppl to agree on a particular emphasis and you have a denomination.

Furthermore the existence of denominations doesn't make them mutual exclusive. One might focus more on a nonessential than another but they all agree on the essential. Baptists, Presbyterians, Lutherans, Anglicans, Pentecostals, Moravians, Methodists and many other protestants hold each other to be orthodox on the essentials but differing in nonessential views.

[Habit7]

There is one quran.
There are translations into different
Languages which is not considered the quran because translations can bring new meanings like what happened to the bible.
The original text of the bible is not recited by most people today.
Hence all the confusion.

There is one Quran but many Hadith's, each of varying authenticity. But one could ignore them and be a Quran only Muslim which is another denomination and has other implications.
There are translations of the text of the Bible but where there is disagreement we return the original Hebrew, Greek and Aramaic text.
The Bible remains the most verified book of antiquity with the Old Testament being verified by the Dead Sea Scrolls and the New Testament having numerous consistent and early transcripts in addition to being almost entirely quoted by early church fathers.
All else is rhetoric.

[Sheriff]

Slartibartfast there are also different branches of muslims as well.

[meccalli]

Even a couple of years after the death and resurrection of Jesus denominations were cropping up even while the New Testament was being compiled:

1 Corinthians 1:11-13 ESV

For it has been reported to me by Chloe’s people that there is quarreling among you, my brothers. What I mean is that each one of you says, “I follow Paul,” or “I follow Apollos,” or “I follow Cephas,” or “I follow Christ.” Is Christ divided? Was Paul crucified for you? Or were you baptized in the name of Paul?

So the ideal that early Christianity or Islam had no dissention is fanciful. All one needs is two ppl to agree on a particular emphasis and you have a denomination.

Furthermore the existence of denominations doesn't make them mutual exclusive. One might focus more on a nonessential than another but they all agree on the essential. Baptists, Presbyterians, Lutherans, Anglicans, Pentecostals, Moravians, Methodists and many other protestants hold each other to be orthodox on the essentials but differing in nonessential views.

There's 1 faith, 1 church. Churches cropped up by name of location as the faith spread. We have denominations today because of much confusion. Paul was addressing all these issues as they came along for clarification led by the spirit. If you're familiar with revelation you will see the members of the faith grouped into 7 churches for reason of merit and chastening for their do's and don'ts. Local churches have fallen into Laodicean's complacency and man's tradition.
You forgot the opening to that scripture you quoted,

Now I plead with you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you, but that you be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.

[redmanjp]

http://www.catholicregister.org/faith/item/18574-vatican-urges-priests-to-clamp-down-on-excessive-emotions-during-the-sign-of-peace

Vatican urges priests to clamp down on excessive emotions during the sign of peace

By Josephine McKenna, Religion News Service

August 5, 2014

VATICAN CITY - In an effort to insure a more sober ritual, the Vatican has urged bishops to clamp down on singing, moving around and other casual expressions of affection when the sign of peace is exchanged during Mass.

The Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments led by Spanish Cardinal Antonio Canizares Llovera, has sent a letter to bishops around the world expressing concern about what it considers to be ritual abuses.

Among them, he said, were turning the sign of peace into a “song of peace,” the priest leaving the altar during the interlude, or use of the ritual to offer congratulations at weddings or condolences at funerals.

Pope Francis reportedly approved the letter, which confirmed the importance of the rite, before it was distributed to bishops’ conferences.

Fr. Anthony Ruff, a theology professor at St. John’s School of Theology-Seminary in Minnesota and editor of the blog Pray Tell, believes the Vatican letter will have little impact on Catholics.

“I suspect such local practices will continue and the Vatican letter won’t change much, since most people don’t find it irreverent to reach out in friendliness even if it’s beyond what the rules allow,” said Ruff.

Vatican expert Thomas Reese criticized the letter.

“It ignores the most ancient tradition where the kiss of peace occurred at the end of the liturgy of the word,” Reese, a commentator for National Catholic Reporter, told Religion News Service. “I pity the poor priest who has to tell his congregation not to smile during the kiss of peace.”

In the letter, Cardinal Canizares Llovera and the congregation’s secretary, Archbishop Arthur Roche, said the issue was raised during a synod on the Eucharist in 2005.

Two years later in an exhortation Sacramentum Caritatis, former Pope Benedict XVI stressed the need for simplicity and sobriety.

He wrote: “Nothing is lost when the sign of peace is marked by a sobriety which preserves the proper spirit of the celebration, as, for example, when it is restricted to one’s immediate neighbors.”

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

There's 1 faith, 1 church.

which one is that? The one with the most members?

[meccalli]

There's 1 faith, 1 church.

which one is that? The one with the most members?

Its collectively known as the body of Christ, the members of the faith who have clothed themselves in righteousness and wait upon God's plan. The concept of church in the bible is stemmed in the word ekklesia, the called out, the elect. It isn't a some branded building or special belief system. Its the gathered individuals who keep God's instruction and serve him in all truth.

[Slartibartfast]

So how come nobody gets along with Jehova Witnesses. Roman Catholics won't go to their churches and I never saw them in my church when I went there. I tried asking some to come to my church back in the day and they refused. How can they be a part of the one body if they view themselves as separate?

Same thing happen with my and my Anglican friend. Sad times. I jes wanted to go to church with my friends.