PNM in Gov't (2020-2025)

[De Dragon]

Cacahole, the LFD RFD PNM bailed out CLICO with the express condition that no assets were to be sold without their consent. Duprey still sold MHTL to Proman. Simpy LFD RFD PNM then tried to block the sale, only to be blanked.. WTF about this you don't get?

Well you digging yourself into a deeper hole.

If Duprey sold MHTL without PNM's consent then why say PNM took chain up?
And if PNM moved to block the sale, why hold them responsible?
And if according to you, Duprey selling it was against conditions, why the ICC allowed it?

You lack consistency bad bad.

Dummy, he did it in spite of the no disposal condition attached to the bailout. Dumb arse LFD RFD PNM took him at his lying word, and then had to expend money to fight it in court. Are you really this dense? They are responsible because Duprey realized that they were dotish, took their 20B, and still sold the most profitable asset in the CLICO portfolio.

[De Dragon]

Cacahole, the LFD RFD PNM bailed out CLICO with the express condition that no assets were to be sold without their consent. Duprey still sold MHTL to Proman. Simpy LFD RFD PNM then tried to block the sale, only to be blanked.. WTF about this you don't get?

Well you digging yourself into a deeper hole.

If Duprey sold MHTL without PNM's consent then why say PNM took chain up?
And if PNM moved to block the sale, why hold them responsible?
And if according to you, Duprey selling it was against conditions, why the ICC allowed it?

You lack consistency bad bad.

because, legally, it was incorrect to block that sale. according to thier agreement, and best business practice, the other party gets the first right to refuse. becuase it was part of the legallities, going against it would violate it. thus enticing a suit and legal costs, unnecessarily.
in this case they had no grounds to keep or even attempt to keep the asset. anything else would be costly.

wgtl tho, that WAS worth trying to pursue, but alwaris representing the state on behalf of petrotrin board, said that they might not win against small pin representing malcom jones, so he dropping the case ... and small pin win a 2.2m for legal costs.

just keep in mind small pin went on to become the minister of every thing for that same govt

The LFD RFD PNM is known for circle jerking like this, which is why Dotishee P*ornHabit7 will insist that Kay Donna was above board

[Habit7]

Well according to the article YOU posted the Clico started disposing of assets before the bailout agreement

The Central Bank first approached the court under the terms of the recently amended Insurance Act to seek an order to stop CL Financial from disposing of Clico assets. The move was only made possible by the amendments to the Insurance Act which were assented to in February, shortly after the signing of a memorandum of understanding which gave the Government management control over Clico and other CL Financial subsidiaries.
http://archives.newsday.co.tt/2009/06/0 ... to-proman/

The govt stopped them not because they didn't want the sale, it would go to pay back govt for what they spent. But they stopped them because MHTL had internal responsibilities to its shareholders first.

In 2011, CEL trigged arbitration proceedings against CLICO, arguing that the Government transfer of CLF's 6.54 per cent of Methanol Holdings (Trinidad) to CLICO gave the insurance company a 56.53 per cent stake in the methanol company—and a majority position in MHTL.
CEL claimed that the shareholders' agreement which established MHTL provided that they be given the first option to purchase the majority stake in MHTL.
In November 2013, the ICC ruled that all of CLICO's shareholding be sold to CEL and took some ten months to decide on the value of the MHTL shares.
CLICO had submitted three valuations from international firms—Duff and Phelps, Deloitte (London) and Union Bank of Switzerland (UBS) with MHTL's worth ranging from US$1.6 billion to US$2.2 billion while CEL had valued the shares at US$875 million.
The arbitrators priced the 56.53 stake at IS$1.174 million and both CLICO and CLF had agreed to abide by the ICC's decision.
While Finance Minister Larry Howai said the value was significantly lower than what they expected for the shares (Government was hoping for US$2 billion), Central Bank Governor Jwala Rambarran last week said the value was "fair" and "reasonable".
Government intervened and bailed out CLF in January 2009. The Shareholders Agreement allows the sale of CLF assets to pay off CLICO policyholders. Since the Shareholders Agreement between the government and CLF shareholders was signed in June 2009, the government has sought to recoup its investment from the illiquid company by selling off assets.
https://trinidadexpress.com/news/local/ ... e666b.html

So I don't know where you get this nancy story about who chain up who and whatnot. MHTL a private company got itself in a monkey pants, GoRTT took over its major shareholder with the view of recouping its money. They stopped them from bad selling. The sale was eventually "fair" and "reasonable" according to CBTT governor who eventually came out as UNC.

Point is the original claim of PNM selling MHTL is as false as your other claim of PNM selling GTL to Niquan, something I realise you avoiding acknowledging.

[Habit7]

Cacahole, the LFD RFD PNM bailed out CLICO with the express condition that no assets were to be sold without their consent. Duprey still sold MHTL to Proman. Simpy LFD RFD PNM then tried to block the sale, only to be blanked.. WTF about this you don't get?

Well you digging yourself into a deeper hole.

If Duprey sold MHTL without PNM's consent then why say PNM took chain up?
And if PNM moved to block the sale, why hold them responsible?
And if according to you, Duprey selling it was against conditions, why the ICC allowed it?

You lack consistency bad bad.

because, legally, it was incorrect to block that sale. according to thier agreement, and best business practice, the other party gets the first right to refuse. becuase it was part of the legallities, going against it would violate it. thus enticing a suit and legal costs, unnecessarily.
in this case they had no grounds to keep or even attempt to keep the asset. anything else would be costly.

wgtl tho, that WAS worth trying to pursue, but alwaris representing the state on behalf of petrotrin board, said that they might not win against small pin representing malcom jones, so he dropping the case ... and small pin win a 2.2m for legal costs.

just keep in mind small pin went on to become the minister of every thing for that same govt

The LFD RFD PNM is known for circle jerking like this, which is why Dotishee P*ornHabit7 will insist that Kay Donna was above board

Again, the UNC choose a star team of QC Nelson, Gerald Ramdeen and Varun Debideen to pursue the case. After they were voted out the new AG didn't fire them and allowed them leeway to pursue. Only after Nelson got access to the documents from the World GTL arbitration which had the board members witness statements, it was clear that they didn't have a case. He told the AG that they don't have a case and AG dropped it on the advice of the handpicked UNC counsel.

A UNC activist demanded to see the witness statements doubting that they justified the dropping of the case. Went as far as the Privy Council, got the witness statements, read them, pass them around to the bright lawyers in the UNC...case closed still.

Nevertheless, the same QC Nelson was convicted of a money-laundering conspiracy with Ramlogan and Ramdeen. That is the case you should be studying but your bias tying you up.

[De Dragon]

Well according to the article YOU posted the Clico started disposing of assets before the bailout agreement

The Central Bank first approached the court under the terms of the recently amended Insurance Act to seek an order to stop CL Financial from disposing of Clico assets. The move was only made possible by the amendments to the Insurance Act which were assented to in February, shortly after the signing of a memorandum of understanding which gave the Government management control over Clico and other CL Financial subsidiaries.
http://archives.newsday.co.tt/2009/06/0 ... to-proman/

The govt stopped them not because they didn't want the sale, it would go to pay back govt for what they spent. But they stopped them because MHTL had internal responsibilities to its shareholders first.

In 2011, CEL trigged arbitration proceedings against CLICO, arguing that the Government transfer of CLF's 6.54 per cent of Methanol Holdings (Trinidad) to CLICO gave the insurance company a 56.53 per cent stake in the methanol company—and a majority position in MHTL.
CEL claimed that the shareholders' agreement which established MHTL provided that they be given the first option to purchase the majority stake in MHTL.
In November 2013, the ICC ruled that all of CLICO's shareholding be sold to CEL and took some ten months to decide on the value of the MHTL shares.
CLICO had submitted three valuations from international firms—Duff and Phelps, Deloitte (London) and Union Bank of Switzerland (UBS) with MHTL's worth ranging from US$1.6 billion to US$2.2 billion while CEL had valued the shares at US$875 million.
The arbitrators priced the 56.53 stake at IS$1.174 million and both CLICO and CLF had agreed to abide by the ICC's decision.
While Finance Minister Larry Howai said the value was significantly lower than what they expected for the shares (Government was hoping for US$2 billion), Central Bank Governor Jwala Rambarran last week said the value was "fair" and "reasonable".
Government intervened and bailed out CLF in January 2009. The Shareholders Agreement allows the sale of CLF assets to pay off CLICO policyholders. Since the Shareholders Agreement between the government and CLF shareholders was signed in June 2009, the government has sought to recoup its investment from the illiquid company by selling off assets.
https://trinidadexpress.com/news/local/ ... e666b.html

So I don't know where you get this nancy story about who chain up who and whatnot. MHTL a private company got itself in a monkey pants, GoRTT took over its major shareholder with the view of recouping its money. They stopped them from bad selling. The sale was eventually "fair" and "reasonable" according to CBTT governor who eventually came out as UNC.

Point is the original claim of PNM selling MHTL is as false as your other claim of PNM selling GTL to Niquan, something I realise you avoiding acknowledging.

Never said that moron, I said it was sold in spite of the agreement not to dispose of assets while getting bailed out. Your lack of comprehension at Level 10 today.

[De Dragon]

Cacahole, the LFD RFD PNM bailed out CLICO with the express condition that no assets were to be sold without their consent. Duprey still sold MHTL to Proman. Simpy LFD RFD PNM then tried to block the sale, only to be blanked.. WTF about this you don't get?

Well you digging yourself into a deeper hole.

If Duprey sold MHTL without PNM's consent then why say PNM took chain up?
And if PNM moved to block the sale, why hold them responsible?
And if according to you, Duprey selling it was against conditions, why the ICC allowed it?

You lack consistency bad bad.

because, legally, it was incorrect to block that sale. according to thier agreement, and best business practice, the other party gets the first right to refuse. becuase it was part of the legallities, going against it would violate it. thus enticing a suit and legal costs, unnecessarily.
in this case they had no grounds to keep or even attempt to keep the asset. anything else would be costly.

wgtl tho, that WAS worth trying to pursue, but alwaris representing the state on behalf of petrotrin board, said that they might not win against small pin representing malcom jones, so he dropping the case ... and small pin win a 2.2m for legal costs.

just keep in mind small pin went on to become the minister of every thing for that same govt

The LFD RFD PNM is known for circle jerking like this, which is why Dotishee P*ornHabit7 will insist that Kay Donna was above board

Again, the UNC choose a star team of QC Nelson, Gerald Ramdeen and Varun Debideen to pursue the case. After they were voted out the new AG didn't fire them and allowed them leeway to pursue. Only after Nelson got access to the documents from the World GTL arbitration which had the board members witness statements, it was clear that they didn't have a case. He told the AG that they don't have a case and AG dropped it on the advice of the handpicked UNC counsel.

A UNC activist demanded to see the witness statements doubting that they justified the dropping of the case. Went as far as the Privy Council, got the witness statements, read them, pass them around to the bright lawyers in the UNC...case closed still.

Nevertheless, the same QC Nelson was convicted of a money-laundering conspiracy with Ramlogan and Ramdeen. That is the case you should be studying but your bias tying you up.

Dumb Dumb the case dropped prior to the FOIA request Why you insist on easily disproven lies amazes, but doesn't surprise me because, well, LFD RFD PNM.


The Ju­di­cial Com­mit­tee of the Privy Coun­cil over­turned the de­ci­sions of the High Court and the Court of Ap­peal in the case of Ma­haraj v Pe­tro­le­um Com­pa­ny of Trinidad and To­ba­go [2019] UKPC 21. Ravi Ma­haraj was grant­ed the right to ac­cess cer­tain wit­ness state­ments filed in ar­bi­tra­tion pro­ceed­ings be­tween Petrotrin and World GTL Ltd.

He sought ac­cess un­der the Free­dom of In­for­ma­tion Act (FOIA) on March 11, 2016. The long ti­tle of that act is "An act to give mem­bers of the pub­lic a gen­er­al right (with ex­cep­tions) of ac­cess to of­fi­cial doc­u­ments of pub­lic au­thor­i­ties and for mat­ters re­lat­ed there­to."

[b][[b]b]The re­fusal by Petrotrin to grant ac­cess to these wit­ness state­ments led Ma­haraj to seek ju­di­cial re­view of Petrotrin’s de­ci­sion. His ap­pli­ca­tion was de­nied by Des Vi­gnes J on March 31, 2017 and fur­ther de­nied by the Court of Ap­peal on Ju­ly 10, 2017. Ma­haraj had filed for ju­di­cial re­view on Oc­to­ber 24, 2016, af­ter ex­changes of cor­re­spon­dence be­tween him­self and Petrotrin.
[/b][/b][/b]
This came af­ter the At­tor­ney Gen­er­al an­nounced the de­ci­sion of the Petrotrin Board to with­draw its claim against its for­mer ex­ec­u­tive chair­man, Mal­colm Jones, "for al­leged fail­ure to take prop­er care in the con­duct of Petrotrin’s busi­ness and for breach of fidu­cia­ry du­ty in re­la­tion to the de­ci­sion to en­ter in­to the guar­an­tee". (para 22)



That case start­ed against Mr Jones in April 2013. "The ac­tion was com­menced on the ba­sis of a le­gal opin­ion writ­ten by Mr Vin­cent Nel­son QC dat­ed 1 March 2011 and a fur­ther opin­ion writ­ten by Mr Rus­sell Mar­tineau SC dat­ed 21 June 2011. The State­ment of Case was signed by two oth­er lawyers, Ger­ald Ramdeen and Varun De­bideen. In due course, Mr Jones served a de­tailed De­fence." (para 22)

The dis­con­tin­u­ance of this case lies at the heart of Ma­haraj’s case as the wit­ness state­ments of Char­maine Bap­tiste and An­tho­ny Chan Tack (two Petrotrin em­ploy­ees) at the Lon­don Court of In­ter­na­tion­al Ar­bi­tra­tion (LCIA) in the ar­bi­tra­tion pro­ceed­ings be­tween Petrotrin and World GTL, seemed to have swayed Vin­cent Nel­son, QC, to al­ter his orig­i­nal ad­vice that had been giv­en to the At­tor­ney Gen­er­al of the pre­vi­ous ad­min­is­tra­tion.

Af­ter the change of gov­ern­ment on Sep­tem­ber 7, 2015, the Privy Coun­cil notes the fol­low­ing:

"25. On 8 Oc­to­ber 2015, Mr Jones was ap­point­ed by the new Gov­ern­ment to the Cab­i­net Stand­ing Com­mit­tee on En­er­gy. On 8 and 9 Oc­to­ber 2015, the Min­is­ter of Com­mu­ni­ca­tions was re­port­ed as say­ing that he thought that the claim against Mr Jones was head­ing in the di­rec­tion of be­ing dropped.

26. How­ev­er, on the in­for­ma­tion cur­rent­ly avail­able as gath­ered by Mr Ma­haraj, it seems that it was on­ly on 11 Oc­to­ber 2015 that rel­e­vant le­gal ad­vice was ob­tained by Petrotrin re­gard­ing its claim against Mr. Jones, in the form of

a short writ­ten ad­vice from Mr Nel­son, QC. Mr Nel­son ad­vised that it was like­ly that the court would or­der dis­clo­sure to Mr Jones of the wit­ness state­ments de­ployed by Petrotrin in the LCIA ar­bi­tra­tion. Mr Nel­son fur­ther ad­vised, in a sin­gle para­graph, that he had con­sid­ered the wit­ness state­ments of Char­maine Bap­tiste and An­tho­ny Chan Tack, which had not been avail­able to him pre­vi­ous­ly, and that it was now his view, in light of what they said, that ‘there is a rea­son­able like­li­hood that a judge will be per­suad­ed that there was a bad busi­ness de­ci­sion but no neg­li­gence’. Mr Nel­son did not set out what was said in the wit­ness state­ments which caused him to take that view. These wit­ness state­ments have not been re­leased in­to the pub­lic do­main."

The Privy Coun­cil itemised the two dis­tinct limbs on which the FOIA re­quests can be grant­ed.

"13. It is com­mon ground that sec­tion 35 has two dis­tinct limbs. A pub­lic au­thor­i­ty is re­quired to give ac­cess to an ex­empt doc­u­ment (i) where there is rea­son­able ev­i­dence that one or more of the mat­ters set out in the sub-para­graphs has or is like­ly to have oc­curred, or (ii) where, in the cir­cum­stances, giv­ing ac­cess to the doc­u­ment is jus­ti­fied in the pub­lic in­ter­est hav­ing re­gard both to any ben­e­fit and to any dam­age that may arise from do­ing so."

Ravi Ma­haraj was grant­ed ac­cess un­der the sec­ond limb out­lined by the Privy Coun­cil above. Now he can start his sub­stan­tive case with a prece­dent for oth­ers for get­ting ac­cess to pub­lic doc­u­ments in "the pub­lic in­ter­est".

[Habit7]

Never said that moron, I said it was sold in spite of the agreement not to dispose of assets while getting bailed out. Your lack of comprehension at Level 10 today.

It was sold according to the parameter of their internal shareholder agreement and according to the MOU with govt, it was not sold by Duprey as you said.

Dumb Dumb the case dropped prior to the FOIA request Why you insist on easily disproven lies amazes, but doesn't surprise me because, well, LFD RFD PNM.

Yes I know. The case was dropped because of the witness statement and Ravi wanted to see it.
Where is the lie?

[De Dragon]

Never said that moron, I said it was sold in spite of the agreement not to dispose of assets while getting bailed out. Your lack of comprehension at Level 10 today.

It was sold according to the parameter of their internal shareholder agreement and according to the MOU with govt, it was not sold by Duprey as you said.

Dumb Dumb the case dropped prior to the FOIA request Why you insist on easily disproven lies amazes, but doesn't surprise me because, well, LFD RFD PNM.

Yes I know. The case was dropped because of the witness statement and Ravi wanted to see it.
Where is the lie?

So if the MOU was observed, and the sale on the up and up, why did the matter end up in court? This was a GORTT initiated court matter, so don't even bother.
Your lie is saying the matter was dropped after the FOIA was granted, when it was the actual opposite. Again, if that was transparent and above board, why did it have to reach all the way to the Privy Council? The same PC who rinsed out the GORTT for their conduct by the way
The plain facts are that Nelson went 180 degrees on his opinion only AFTER the LFD RFD PNM got into power. Are you seriously asking sensible people to believe that this was a coincidence and not Arse-Wari's way of letting a LFD RFD PNM stalwart like Malcolm Jones off the hook? Now the salt in the LFD RFD PNM self-inflicted wound is we owe him

[Redman]

You correct.

NO properly run organization pays $300M to fund a TAR for a plant of which they own a mere 10%

Of course your simplistic assumption is that the unitization process leaves us at the level we started with and that this isn't the first part of the
ongoing yet to be completed fulll process.

You catching up.

ArseFack, the TAR is NOT a facking debottlenecking! Therefore the throughput of the train is the facking same, hence our take will be the same, you absolute kant!
Lemme put it so even you dotish arse will undestand. You're renting in a 10 apt, complex, the landlord wants to improve the place. Do you as a kant solely pay for it? Yes you will enjoy the new digs, but what about the other 9 tenants? You real dotish, I feel too dotish for words, You talk about airy fairy concepts like unitization when the stark realty is that we, thanks to your husbands JUHN Scarfy and Goebbels are simps.

If you put as much effort into your SEA comprehension class as you do with your pubescent name calling you would understand a little more.

Then again maybe not.

Simply and factually
Bp Shell have already committed to the restructuring of the LNG complex and the commercial terms. 2019

BP and Shell have already paid a sizable amount as part of settling the transfer pricing issue.2019

So your analogy is stillborn...no surprise, on the same footing as your argument.

That sum paid by the MNCs is 2x + the cost of the TAR. SO we still ahead.

I've never stated anything about an increase in output...
However I did state ..that the take would reflect a change in the commercial side...not the operational output.... specifically...2,3,4 s marketing and Sales deals prevented TnT from participation in the final price and made it impossible to audit same.


Hence GORTT s restructuring of the commercial terms etc,will increase the dollar value we get from the sale of every molecule.

Therefore our take from the LNG increases.

English do you speak it?

All.of this has been repeatedly published since friggin 2019.

It's the same MNCs that raised gas prices to Point Lisas...funny you expected them to be flexible on those negotiations but intractable here.

[De Dragon]

You correct.

NO properly run organization pays $300M to fund a TAR for a plant of which they own a mere 10%

Of course your simplistic assumption is that the unitization process leaves us at the level we started with and that this isn't the first part of the
ongoing yet to be completed fulll process.

You catching up.

ArseFack, the TAR is NOT a facking debottlenecking! Therefore the throughput of the train is the facking same, hence our take will be the same, you absolute kant!
Lemme put it so even you dotish arse will undestand. You're renting in a 10 apt, complex, the landlord wants to improve the place. Do you as a kant solely pay for it? Yes you will enjoy the new digs, but what about the other 9 tenants? You real dotish, I feel too dotish for words, You talk about airy fairy concepts like unitization when the stark realty is that we, thanks to your husbands JUHN Scarfy and Goebbels are simps.

If you put as much effort into your SEA comprehension class as you do with your pubescent name calling you would understand a little more.

Then again maybe not.

Simply and factually
Bp Shell have already committed to the restructuring of the LNG complex and the commercial terms. 2019

BP and Shell have already paid a sizable amount as part of settling the transfer pricing issue.2019

So your analogy is stillborn...no surprise, on the same footing as your argument.

That sum paid by the MNCs is 2x + the cost of the TAR. SO we still ahead.

I've never stated anything about an increase in output...
However I did state ..that the take would reflect a change in the commercial side...not the operational output.... specifically...2,3,4 s marketing and Sales deals prevented TnT from participation in the final price and made it impossible to audit same.


Hence GORTT s restructuring of the commercial terms etc,will increase the dollar value we get from the sale of every molecule.

Therefore our take from the LNG increases.

English do you speak it?

All.of this has been repeatedly published since friggin 2019.

It's the same MNCs that raised gas prices to Point Lisas...funny you expected them to be flexible on those negotiations but intractable here.

You're failure to keep track of your many lies and propaganda always trips you up.
Those negotiations are still in progress as of February 2020, so your lie of "since 2019" is when the talks first started. Your continued admiration for LFD RFD PNM ineptness is reflected in your asinine statement of "we still ahead" shows a casual disregard for $300M we were forced to pay to get gas because JUHN Scarfy and Goebbels couldn't negotiate their way out of a brown bag. We should have never agreed to, and paid for that TAR, NEVER!
It's not surprising because you mounted a similarly spirited defense of Niquan, where $400M USD were pissed away to get $2B TT in 25 years
I am almost certain had any other GORTT done that nonsense you and the rest of the LFD RFD PNM brigade would have been al up in arms, so add hypocrisy to lying and dishonesty

[zoom rader]

Jeess Redman makes an arse of himself everyday

[zoom rader]

P¤rnhabit 7 makes another arse of himself today.

[Redman]

Dragon
You like a cokee eye pot hong
Loud,badder Dan that, and off target,missing the point.

It's been published that the payments were made, in 2019.
The total quantity is about 2.5B.
Get your crayons and do the arithmetic.

Higher up in the thread the articles were posted.


Bp Shell have committed to the restructuring...since 2019.
Published since then.

All of the above is published below quoting a Guardian article
https://www.stabroeknews.com/2019/06/11 ... -2019/amp/

Emphasis on the parts that missed you in the ton of links posted before....
It is a June 2019 article.

The an­nounce­ment was made by En­er­gy Min­is­ter Franklin Khan who gave de­tails to the Par­lia­ment on Mon­day fol­low­ing more a year of ne­go­ti­a­tions. He re­vealed that Shell agreed to pay gov­ern­ment $2.5 bil­lion by the end of 2019, the mon­ey to be paid in US to the sum of US $397 mil­lion.


Like the BPTT pay­ment last year to gov­ern­ment of $1 bil­lion, Shell is mak­ing its pay­ment but not ad­mit­ting to cheat­ing the coun­try of large sums of rev­enue in trans­fer pric­ing.

“The out­come of these phase 1 ne­go­ti­a­tions, with Shell, re­sult­ed in an agree­ment to pay the gov­ern­ment ap­prox­i­mate­ly, US$397m to the end of 2019 and the par­ties are mov­ing in­to phase 2 of the ne­go­ti­a­tions which sur­round the re­struc­tur­ing of At­lantic LNG,” Khan told the Par­lia­ment

ETA:
You just quoted me saying that the process is NOT completed ....so point out where I said anything is completed.

English do you read it?

What did I say on Niquan?...I don't recall saying anything.
Lie much?

Help us out and point out my posts
Or just stop making stuff up.

[sMASH]

hmmmn the same people that jamming NGC with high cost off shore gas, putting them at a disadvantage by selling that gas to pt lisas with that high price, are jumping at the chance to UNITIZE. big companies dont take deals to make a loss.

even if that unitization contract extends to the sale of the lng, it would would be a 10% say in that process.
but wait, it ws 10% and 11% in another plant.. so it would end up being like 5 or 6% say in the WHOLEEE complex.

if u was concerned about transfer pricing before, wait till u hear about the the internal diversion of assets around that 5% interest in that complex. u would be like silent partner.

[Redman]

We all should be concerned with transfer pricing.

But the published statements state that there will be a restructuring.

We have to wait and see what the final terms are and what are the returns.

Some yes no questions that I would like you to answer...
That 6% ish is correct as of now...can you say what the enterprise value will be?
Can you state what the increase in the revenue from sales would be with the new formulas?
Can you state whether there is an agreement to recoup the 300M investment before any other shareholder gets a cent in dividends?
Can you state whether there was consideration for the risk taken on by making the 300M investment-maybe enhanced equity or dividend flow?


Pointing out hypothetical situations in ignorance of facts is just ole talk.

It would be impossible to say good or bad until we know the above answers-based on the certainty of your position, you have that info.
Otherwise your have again concluded solely based on your politics.

[Habit7]

Never said that moron, I said it was sold in spite of the agreement not to dispose of assets while getting bailed out. Your lack of comprehension at Level 10 today.

It was sold according to the parameter of their internal shareholder agreement and according to the MOU with govt, it was not sold by Duprey as you said.

Dumb Dumb the case dropped prior to the FOIA request Why you insist on easily disproven lies amazes, but doesn't surprise me because, well, LFD RFD PNM.

Yes I know. The case was dropped because of the witness statement and Ravi wanted to see it.
Where is the lie?

So if the MOU was observed, and the sale on the up and up, why did the matter end up in court? This was a GORTT initiated court matter, so don't even bother.
Your lie is saying the matter was dropped after the FOIA was granted, when it was the actual opposite. Again, if that was transparent and above board, why did it have to reach all the way to the Privy Council? The same PC who rinsed out the GORTT for their conduct by the way
The plain facts are that Nelson went 180 degrees on his opinion only AFTER the LFD RFD PNM got into power. Are you seriously asking sensible people to believe that this was a coincidence and not Arse-Wari's way of letting a LFD RFD PNM stalwart like Malcolm Jones off the hook? Now the salt in the LFD RFD PNM self-inflicted wound is we owe him

You are mixing up the chronology. The sale was "on the up and up" after govt intervened, made them abide by the MOU and the arbitration made the right buyer have access first as it was disposed of.

I never said the "matter was dropped after the FOIA was granted" I literally spoke about the case being dropped, inserted a paragraph break, and then spoke of the FOIA. I don't know how you could arrive at the FOIA preceding the case drop. Your lack of comprehension is showing again.

Nelson, unlike you, is informed by the facts, The facts were that the witness statements that were withheld from him gave him no case. It was a nonsense case, one of many AG Ramlogan launched against PNM officials or Dr Rowley, all either failed or he dropped them. One of them, he eventually got charged for trying to influence a witness and faces several years in jail. Only later we learned that there was a cash for play conspiracy with legal fees as Nelson pleaded guilty of it.

The witness statements were withheld because arbitration statements are confidential. This was upheld by the High Court, Court of Appeal but overturned by the PC.

But now that the UNC has it, the main reason why the Jones case was dropped, why they not moving on it to show that Nelson was wrong? Because they know that there was no case but choose to excite their ignorant base like yourself.

[sMASH]

hoss, that is nonsense.


but i learn sumting new. duprey DID actually sell the shares to proman. but the govt stopped that citing their MOU.

gortt stopped it cause they wanted to keep it, NOT becuase they wanted to protect it for the minority shareholder. that is why CEL had to sue gortt to get to the right to buy the shares as they were entitled to in their contract as the minority share holder.

what missing from the story is, proman ag IS Consolidated Energy ltd aka CEL
proman=cel, cel=proman. cel is just the holding company that proman formed locally to hold their shares in MHTl.


so it look like duprey take the MOU money from the GORTT, knowing the mhtl share CANT go to GORTT, and still try to sell it to Proman.
gortt block it from going to proman, cause they stupid and think the MOU give them that right.
but the germans know the deal they make, so took gortt to court, and was not much of a fought, and gott their shares, leaving gortt with naught

[Habit7]

hoss, that is nonsense.


but i learn sumting new. duprey DID actually sell the shares to proman. but the govt stopped that citing their MOU.

gortt stopped it cause they wanted to keep it, NOT becuase they wanted to protect it for the minority shareholder. that is why CEL had to sue gortt to get to the right to buy the shares as they were entitled to in their contract as the minority share holder.

Wrong again Watson

73. From the information that came to me it appeared that at the time that the MOU was signed the intention had been that certain valuable group assets,such as shares in RBL and MHTL, could be sold or collateralised. However, it became apparent that this could not happen, because:

(a) the majority of Clico's RBL shares were held in its statutory fund (which was significantly in deficit);
(b) the remainder of Clico's RBL shares were subject to security in favour of CIB;
(c) most of the RBL shares owned by CIB were
hypothecated to secure that company's borrowings;

(d) dealings in the MHTL shares owned by the Group were subject to the terms of a shareholders' agreement.

https://www.guardian.co.tt/article-6.2. ... 64cbba857a

That was according to Former Minister of Finance, Winston Dookeran

And there is Consolidated Energy Ltd (CEL) and Clico Energy Limited (CEL). The two are not the same so when you see CEL know the context.

[paid_influencer]

some video on this.

https://www.tv6tnt.com/news/7pmnews/man ... d3ab8.html

[sMASH]

so when u read ur quote there at 73. gortt had intention of of eitehr selling or using the assets to its own benefit, hence why they entered into the MOU. gortt wanted those assets, as they were valuable. and after some time, they understood that they were not entitled to the assets, according to the contracts that were in place.

most likely that was when cel decided to put gortt in court

when every body talks about those entities, they either use clico to mean clico+clf+clico energy. clf could mean cl financial, and hardly any body references clico energy, and refers to it by that term 'clico energy' if they do, but custom is really either clico or the parent clf.
sometimes cel is used, but most times proman is used instead cause its just the shell company. and because most of promans dealing is with clico, there are already too many c's and l's, so reporters will tend to use proman.

i have never read any report or artilce that referenced clico energy as cel. cel is used for proman.



duprey selling the clico shares in mhtl to proman was being done a long time, long before 2009
http://archives.newsday.co.tt/2009/06/0 ... to-proman/

News
Govt bids to set aside Clico Energy sale to Proman
Andre Bagoo Thursday 4 June 2009

Newsday understands that an application to have the sale set aside, which may involve moves by the State to have the CL Financial assets traced and recouped, is carded to come up for case management hearing in the Port-of-Spain High Court on July 20.

The action to set aside the controversial sale of shares in Clico Energy Company to Proman AG was said to have triggered the court action which saw an injunction issued to preserve the status quo of the CL Financial assets portfolio.

Proman AG is a Swiss company involved in the construction of the largest single methanol facility in the world in Trinidad. The company is currently constructing the methanol plant for the Oman Methanol Company in Sohar, Sultanate of Oman.

The Central Bank first approached the court under the terms of the recently amended Insurance Act to seek an order to stop CL Financial from disposing of Clico assets. The move was only made possible by the amendments to the Insurance Act which were assented to in February, shortly after the signing of a memorandum of understanding which gave the Government management control over Clico and other CL Financial subsidiaries.

On Tuesday, High Court judge Justice Judith Jones amended the terms of a three-part injunction issued against CL Financial in order to tighten the State’s hold on Clico assets which may be subject to the control of CL Financial and its subsidiaries.

The key changes to the injunction were the expansion of its second and third parts allowing for subsidiaries and affiliates of the CL Financial group to be better caught under the order’s net. Subsidiaries and affiliates of CL Financial which have interests in or powers to deal over Clico assets are now barred from disposing of them. Jones also ordered that the parties to the court proceedings limit the use to which they put information disclosed by CL Financial on the breadth of its assets to the court proceedings only.

Lawyers for the Central Bank are considering whether to appeal this order. On February 22, High Court judge Justice Gregory Delzin ordered that CL Financial, its directors, senior management, subsidiaries or affiliated companies be restrained from “doing or causing to be done the following acts without prior notice to and the prior approval of the Central Bank of Trinidad and Tobago.”

Under the restraining order CL Financial must also “disclose to the Inspector of Financial Institutions, or his designated officer, the identity, and location of all or any assets of Clico in or out of the jurisdiction.”

CL Financial was further mandated to make “full disclosure to the claimants of all or any information relevant to the existence of any interest held in any of the said assets in Clico.”

yes, ur correct, the state did try to stop the cl financial from disposal of any of the assets, but that also barred proman from rightfully acquiring the balance of mhtl shares. proman/cel

https://www.icis.com/explore/resources/ ... or-1-175bn

Correction: In the ICIS story headlined “Trinidad sells MHTL to holding company for $1.175bn” dated 10 October 2014, the wrong percentage was given in the MHTL stake that Trinidad sold to CEL. Please read in the third paragraph… 56.53% …instead of… 53.56% … A corrected story follows.

HOUSTON (ICIS)--Methanol Holdings (Trinidad) Ltd (MHTL) has been sold to its minority partner, a Houston-based law firm said on Friday.

MHTL, which operates five methanol plants on the island and currently is controlled by the government, was sold to Consolidated Energy Ltd (CEL), a holding company that already owned 43.47% of MHTL.

The remaining 56.53% was bought by CEL for $1.175bn.

The government has been considering this move for months.

The law firm Ware, Jackson, Lee & Chambers, which represented CEL in the case, said in a press release that the purchase price was less than what the government had sought.

Earlier this year, an arbitration court ruled on a claim by MHTL's minority shareholders challenging a 2009 deal that effectively gave majority ownership in the methanol producer to CLICO, a government-controlled insurer.

In November 2013, the court ruled in favour of MHTL's minority shareholders and had set a deadline of 31 January this year for negotiating a sale. As there was no sale by that date, the ruling said the court could set a price for the sale based on market valuations. The minority owners of MHTL include the Proman Group, which runs the methanol plants.

CLICO signed over all shares MHTL to CEL in Port of Spain, Trinidad, on Thursday morning, the law firm said.

MHTL is the island's largest methanol producer; Methanex also operates two plants there.

what went on there is, the shareholding of clico in mhtl/clico energy was 51%. but that was split between cl financial and clico, and when gortt did the MOU, the clf shares went to clico, thus making clico the majority shareholder. the problem with that is, that was effectively giving the mhtl shares to gortt, when it was contracted to offer it first to proman.


https://www.guardian.co.tt/article-6.2. ... 99ed3ac075

Duprey wanted to sell MHTL in February 2009

by
Tue Nov 15 2011

Asha Javeed

Shortly after signing a Memorandum of Understanding (MOU) with the Government of Trinidad and Tobago for his cash-strapped companies, former CL Financial chairman Lawrence Duprey was negotiating to sell one of the Group's most lucrative assets, Methanol Holdings (MHTL). In his cross-examination of MHTL chief executive Rampersad Motilal, attorney for Proman Holdings, Christopher Hamel-Smith produced an email string from February 3, 2009 which showed the chairman of Clico Energy Limited (CEL), Duprey's German partners in MHTL, accepting CL Financial's offer subject to terms and conditions. Word of the proposal by Duprey to sell CL Financial's 56 per cent stake in MHTL to the methanol company's 44 per cent foreign shareholders was disclosed yesterday as attorneys continued to cross-examine Motilal on the sale of Clico Energy Ltd.

Hamel-Smith also produced an email which showed that corporate secretary Gita Sakal forwarded a 2007 valuation of MHTL for CEL to pursue. Motilal told the on-going Clico Commission of Enquiry yesterday that while he was copied on that letter, he simply drew that letter to the attention of the CLF board for their consideration. Hamel-Smith questioned whether CEL's offer was being considered given the risks posed by the world environment for MHTL. Motilal maintained that it was an option but said it would be incorrect to say there was need for him personally to consider anything. "I would deny having any interest or being involved in any activity for consideration of the sale," Motilal told the COE.

And despite Motilal's consistent defense that he remained unaware of the sale OF Clico Energy Limited, he admitted that he did not interrogate the sale at the board level as he should have. In answer to an earlier question by attorney Fyard Hosein SC, Motilal said while he was not "alarmed" by the sale, he did not raise the issue with the CLF board. He told the Commission he was waiting for a more competent person to raise the issue as he did not have all the facts at his disposal. When it was pointed out that he was a member of the sub-committee of the board with a mandate to be responsible for the disposal of assets, Motilal said he interpreted his role differently.

In his resignation letter, which he produced for the COE, Motilal wrote: "The sub-committee was mindful at all times to work within the framework established by the MOU. This task became more challenging after an injunction was filed against CL Financial restraining the company, its officers, etc from dealing, negotiating, selling etc assets of Clico as it appears that the injunction was granted on the basis of another transaction by CL Financial ie.the sale of its shareholding and the shareholding OF Clico IN Clico Energy Ltd without the prior notification or sanction of the Minister of Finance of the Central Bank and which to date has not also been brought to the attention of the CLF Board for discussion approval pr ratification as may be applicable."

Of Duprey, Motilal later told the COE that: "I am sure he spent many sleepless nights trying to cajole subordinates and subsidiaries to report." Motilal will continue his cross examination today. Former corporate secretary Gita Sakal is also expected to take the witness stand today. Meanwhile, Commission Colman has ruled that the means of remuneration for CL Financial officials should be disclosed to the Commission but not the actual quantification of them.

how on earth will shares IN clico energy ltd, or shares OF clico energy in MHTL be sold to clico energy ltd? when they 'selling clico shares to cel' they mean selling selling clico shares to consolidated energy ltd aka proman.

*gortt tried to protect clf from selling off assets to cel(clico energy ltd), kinda mad owah*

[Habit7]

Firstly, glad to see that you finally corroborating the things you post. I hope it spreads to Dragon and ZR, they react as if I violate their freedom to lie when I point out their errors and they respond very poorly.

Secondly, you say, "i have never read any report or artilce that referenced clico energy as cel." But then you post an article with "Clico Energy Limited (CEL)" which makes me wonder if you read what you post.

Finally, the point is govt sought to bailout CL Financial so that it wouldn't cause the largest conglomerate in the country and the region to cause a run on the economy. It initially was $5B and govt was supposed to recoup their money from the sale of assets. But govt changed and the sum went up to $21B-$27B. The govt didn't want MHTL, they just wanted their money, the ppl's money, back.

[sMASH]

they wanted assets, either to sell or keep and earn the dividends.

what they do with rbl shares, they didnt sell it, they put it for first citizens. when theifcheira make out the MOU, they thought they was getting the shares in clico energies/mhtl. thats why they block clf from selling it to CEL. lo and behold, it was not theirs to block. and ended up getting way less than they thought they would have gotten.



the whole point of me dredging this topic up, was to say that govt had part in ttmc(one of the assets held by mhtl), and that ended up getting privatized. typical gortt fashion, which 9-3 run by pnm. any ministry u go, it infested with generational pnm competence. cant solve genetics in a single 5 year term.

[sMASH]

Secondly, you say, "i have never read any report or artilce that referenced clico energy as cel." But then you post an article with "Clico Energy Limited (CEL)" which makes me wonder if you read what you post.

that was with a young asha javeed or editor that thought that clico energy was a big name in the soap opera. not realizing that more of a shell with less things to do than the consolidated energy ltd. the chairman of both clico energy and mhtl was the same guy, seeing as clico had 17% and clf had 34% shares in mhtl, think rampersad motilal was his name. but from there on out, most parties tend to just say clico or clf for duprey stuff, and leave the CEL for proman, but oft times stick to proman.

we used to just say duprey and shultz.

[zoom rader]

Secondly, you say, "i have never read any report or artilce that referenced clico energy as cel." But then you post an article with "Clico Energy Limited (CEL)" which makes me wonder if you read what you post.

that was with a young asha javeed or editor that thought that clico energy was a big name in the soap opera. not realizing that more of a shell with less things to do than the consolidated energy ltd. the chairman of both clico energy and mhtl was the same guy, seeing as clico had 17% and clf had 34% shares in mhtl, think rampersad motilal was his name. but from there on out, most parties tend to just say clico or clf for duprey stuff, and leave the CEL for proman, but oft times stick to proman.

we used to just say duprey and shultz.

Ent asha javeed is a red government mattress.

Becareful with any article P¤rnhabit 7 presents nearly all are written by red government agents with an agenda of mistruths

[sMASH]

habbit dem feel they might gt if they earn enough ground points.

[Habit7]

they wanted assets, either to sell or keep and earn the dividends.

They wanted the assets because they bailed out CLF and they had no way to repay them other than assets.

This has nothing to do with a reporter. YOU made the claim YOU have never seen an article with X, then posted an article with X. That is all YOU.

[zoom rader]

Energy Minister Franklin Khan has made a bold prediction that by 2025 crude oil production will increase to 92,000 barrels of oil per day (bopd), up from its present production of 57,000 bopd.

The minister said this projected increase does not take into account any additional major discovery that may be made in the intervening period and which may quickly be brought into production.

Khan would no doubt have based part of his prediction on the already sanctioned BHP Ruby project which at peak will add 16,000 bopd and the ability of state-owned Heritage to increase its production based on its significant and under utilised assets.

In an interview with Guardian Media Khan alluded to the potential of Heritage and said, “Now I am speaking to them very regularly and I have told them I want a laser-beam focus on production and they are doing that. They have evaluated the Trinmar acreage, there is the Jubilee field that they are going out to a joint venture for, there is South-West Soldado which they will be going on a joint venture for, to bring in the investment level, to bring in the production.”

According to the Energy Minister, Heritage will also seek to increase the lease operatorship/farm-out onshore and he has told them they have to come up with their own drilling programme for the land-based assets.

The minister also promised to have a bid round for further deep exploration in what is called the Siparia syncline for Herreras, similar to where Touchstone has made several discoveries.

He said, “This will probably take about two years but I can see Heritage ramping up to over 60/70,000 barrels of oil per day by 2024.”

All of this sounds impressive and makes sense. For years, almost two decades to be honest, energy ministers have promised to do something about declining production on land and on the West Coast. Nothing has actually worked.

Former energy minister Kevin Ramnarine, like Khan, had made a bold promise of increased oil production, mainly led by what was the then Petrotrin.

Ramnarine in 2011 told a meeting of the Energy Chamber; “As a country, we must move quickly to maximise on the high oil prices both from a WTI and Brent perspective. The ministry’s forecasting of oil production indicates that oil production which averaged around 94,000 bopd for January to October 2011 should edge back up towards the 100,000 bopd mark in 2012.”

He also had this to say on natural gas production, “There continues to be a shortage of natural gas to the Point Lisas Industrial estate. This problem is not due to a lack of reserves. It is a result of poor coordination. The Ministry of Energy starting January 2012 will be chairing a quarterly production optimisation meeting that will ensure that this never happens again. In terms of a solution, there is light at the end of the tunnel.

“We expect that the EOG Toucan Platform would commence production in mid January to mid February and that this would provide relief to the problem at Point Lisas.

“The NGC has also commenced works on the NGC pipeline network to ensure that we have more flexibility in the deliverability of natural gas. This involves connecting BG at Beachfield into the NGC domestic grid.

We must understand that the system of supply and demand for natural gas is tightly optimised and any disruption will now be immediately felt at Point Lisas. I will also add that new developments of natural gas have proven to “dry gas” and therefore we have a commensurate decline in the production of liquids in T&T. This places even greater emphasis on getting oil production back up above 100,000 bopd.”

History has shown that on both counts Ramnarine and the Ministry of Energy failed to deliver.

I make the point about Ramnarine to say that it is easier said than done and that increased oil production from Heritage will require significant investment of hard cash, something the country does not have and Heritage is short on.

To be clear, the company has declared significant profits but when one considers the costs of wells and the risks associated with drilling then one understands that Heritage is going to require either significant joint ventures or a different approach has to be taken to allow private capital access to the oil resources now under the control of the state.

With the climate change challenge facing the world and the move away from fossil fuel and in particular liquid fuels, the country has to be focused on moving quickly to get the oil out of the ground or risk having a product that no one wants.

Crude oil and natural gas are only important based on the value of the product and most experts feel there is a window within which they will remain relevant.

The announcement by the world’s leading car makers of their move away from the production of combustion engines by between 2030 and 2040, if successful, will deal a hefty blow to oil prices and production and even now there is real doubt about oil and gas majors investing in any new search for crude, unless that oil can be discovered quickly and sold into the market for profit.

It is why the failure of this government to act quickly in the energy sector to solve the myriad of problems facing it is inexplicable and tantamount to political malpractice.

This column has been on the record on calling for Khan to be replaced as the Energy Minister, and it is to his credit that he was prepared to sit down with Guardian Media and have a frank discussion about his tenure as the Minister of Energy and explain his side of why things are where they are.

In the interview Khan also promised by 2025 the natural gas shortage that Ramnarine spoke about in 2011 will be finally solved. Fourteen years later and with several petrochemical plants already gone.

As a country we have to wish Khan good luck. We need the revenue that can be generated by the energy sector and we need to get the oil and gas out of the ground quickly and invest it in areas that will lead to sustainable revenue streams into the future.

We have already lost billions due to LNG transfer pricing that neither the PNM nor UNC seem to have a problem with and one can only hope this time we get it right in the important, but sunset sector.

We are running out of time and while Khan and this government say the right things, their actions fail to back up their promises.

Those who felt we would be well on our way to herd immunity by now, see how old talk and basket doh hold water

For you idiots that got fooled by Rowlair ang Guy Smiley .

They deliberately cut oil and gas supplies just to Close Petrotrin refinery . send home 3500 and shut down Pt lisas . State wells was capped under the red government to halt production . Now all of sudden they can produced 100k barrels. Those of us in oil knows what going on with those wells.

The red government keeps prime wells on capped and they lease out the older wells that are limping and need working on.

[Habit7]

^^^This is what you get when Petrotrin is not burdened with a loss-making refinery and can make a profit to invest in E&P
Production grows.

Heritage wells are mostly in mature fields where pressures are low. Normally companies would employ EOR methods to increase flow but Petrotrin was limited by funds. Now that Heritage has the profits to be reinvested into these wells, I won't be surprised to see a 1000 bopd well.

trinidad: first world restrictions and taxation, with fourth worth world debt and conditions.
thank u, rowliar

Petrotrin made ah profit of 800mill but no account for where the money was spent or where it went.

On top of that 1.5 billion gone from HSF

I think we seeing Panama all over again

see goalpost change below

[Redman]

Cool story ZR- Thats why we saw a 20% decline when the UNC was in power and the the great Kevin Ramnarine failed to get to 100 from a 98 start.
With 100 oil.

It also declined 1995-2000 as well.


The reality is simply that oil production has been in decline since the the 1967 peak of about 180,000BOPD -with some contra trend increases haphazardly since then.

2010-15 Oil production declined from 98k to 78
16-20 Declined from 71k to56k

The oil is there- Original Oil in place-is still in place.
Its still a VERY profitable business.

The above being simple proven fact then the problem isnt a political or a resource one.
a)Its management-MINISTRY level
b)and a finance level.

The has never been any penalty for production underperformance...so producers do as little as they can-cuz even at that level they making money.
The ministers optimism simply stems from the fact that local producers have recently been handed new production schedules with production and activity minimums.
For the first time in history the NOC is ENFORCING work obligations etc.
The expectation is that production will increase as a result of the pressure now being applied to work the blocks.

The financial system is archaic in its approach- and therefore local producers are out played by the externally financed entities.

[zoom rader]

^^^This is what you get when Petrotrin is not burdened with a loss-making refinery and can make a profit to invest in E&P
Production grows.

Heritage wells are mostly in mature fields where pressures are low. Normally companies would employ EOR methods to increase flow but Petrotrin was limited by funds. Now that Heritage has the profits to be reinvested into these wells, I won't be surprised to see a 1000 bopd well.

trinidad: first world restrictions and taxation, with fourth worth world debt and conditions.
thank u, rowliar

Petrotrin made ah profit of 800mill but no account for where the money was spent or where it went.

On top of that 1.5 billion gone from HSF

I think we seeing Panama all over again

see goalpost change below

You and red government are full of 5hit, you cant fool folks that are in the oil business and know these wells .

Low pressures are things of the past , you know very little about oil extraction as you have never worked on wells . Those prime wells was capped for a reason played by Rowlair and guy smiley to fool the population .

They gave leased out wells that they thought could not produce a daily supply. Those lease holders proved them wrong which are Trinty Oil, Columbus Energy, Touchstone and soon to be Bahamas petroleum. Now that these companies are producing they are embarrassing the government capped wells . Rowlair is now trying to play catch up .

3.2 Billions Barrels of Unrisked Prospective Resources but you kantas wanna pump less than 100k per day

You dumb arses are not fooling those that are in the know