The Religion Discussion

[AdamB]

The middle east -_-

Is that the country of the middle east located somewhere near Indiana?

The muslim dominated countries in the middle east. If you understood the root of my question, you'd know where I'm speaking about. Saudi Arabia etc.
But by your dodging, I already know your answer.

You have failed to be specific and I don't have time to waste.

There are LAWS in Islam when it comes to crime and "killing" as you call it. The individual in the state has no right to take the law into his own hands, just like in non-Islamic states.

Persons are tried in a court of law in the islamic state with witnesses and evidence being presented, just like in non-Islamic states.

There is no law which says that is permissible to kill a christian or jew or atheist.

I hope that answers your question.

PS. Even from the prophet's time there have been dissidents (aka Khawaarij - Osama bin laden type) and later rejectionists (Shia and others). What they practise are not condoned by the islamic state. They are vigilantes, terrorists as commonly referred to. They are not followers of prophet Muhammad.

[AdamB]

I have always wondered this. I guess its just to see if anyone can give an answer on it. Because i beliveve the spanish ppl celebrate jesus christ's birthday sometime in january

On what evidence do you base this belief?

[kevin5211]

I have always wondered this. I guess its just to see if anyone can give an answer on it. Because i beliveve the spanish ppl celebrate jesus christ's birthday sometime in january

On what evidence do you base this belief?

Well i went to a roman catholic school and my spanish teacher, who was also a romqn catholic had told us that people in spain celebrate the birth of christ in january and not on the 25th of december. You can prove me wrong if you wish but i am just stating something i was told. Also please dont take the phrase i believe to mean that is is my firm belief, its just a manner of speech.

[pluggie]

^^^ I think you heard wrong, she probably said june.

[kevin5211]

So i asked my friend google about this and heres wat came up

http://christmas.dgreetings.com/christm ... spain.html

[AdamB]

I have always wondered this. I guess its just to see if anyone can give an answer on it. Because i beliveve the spanish ppl celebrate jesus christ's birthday sometime in january

On what evidence do you base this belief?

Well i went to a roman catholic school and my spanish teacher, who was also a romqn catholic had told us that people in spain celebrate the birth of christ in january and not on the 25th of december. You can prove me wrong if you wish but i am just stating something i was told. Also please dont take the phrase i believe to mean that is is my firm belief, its just a manner of speech.

December and January belong to the Solar (Julian) / Gregorian calendars. Was this in usage at the time of the birth of Jesus? Did the Jews and early christians who lived in the Roman state use this calendar or the Lunar calendar or something else? If you use the lunar calendar then the date will change every year on the solar calendar. They don't coincide.

So the standardization of Easter and Christmas may have come hundreds of years after when the Gregorian replaced the Julian calendar. It depends on which calendar the church chooses to use for dates for festivals.

The Julian calendar was a reform of the Roman calendar introduced by Julius Caesar in 46 BC (708 AUC). It took effect in 45 BC (709 AUC). It was the predominant calendar in most of Europe, and in European settlements in the Americas and elsewhere, until it was superseded by the Gregorian calendar.

The Julian calendar has a regular year of 365 days divided into 12 months, as listed in Table of months. A leap day is added to February every four years. The Julian year is, therefore, on average 365.25 days long. It was intended to approximate the tropical (solar) year. Although Greek astronomers had known, at least since Hipparchus, a century before the Julian reform, that the tropical year was a few minutes shorter than 365.25 days, the calendar did not compensate for this difference. As a result, the calendar year gained about three days every four centuries compared to observed equinox times and the seasons. This discrepancy was corrected by the Gregorian reform of 1582. The Gregorian calendar has the same months and month lengths as the Julian calendar, but inserts leap days according to a different rule. Consequently, the Julian calendar is currently 13 days behind the Gregorian calendar; for instance, 1 January in the Julian calendar is 14 January in the Gregorian.

The Julian calendar has been replaced as the civil calendar by the Gregorian calendar in almost all countries which formerly used it, although it continued to be the civil calendar of some countries into the 20th century. Most Christian denominations in the West and areas evangelized by Western churches have also replaced the Julian calendar with the Gregorian as the basis for their liturgical calendars. However, most branches of the Eastern Orthodox Church still use the Julian calendar for calculating the dates of moveable feasts, including Easter (Pascha). Some Orthodox churches have adopted the Revised Julian calendar for the observance of fixed feasts, while other Orthodox churches retain the Julian calendar for all purposes.

The christians would have to corroborate or state what is the real story!

[Sky]

The middle east -_-

Is that the country of the middle east located somewhere near Indiana?

The muslim dominated countries in the middle east. If you understood the root of my question, you'd know where I'm speaking about. Saudi Arabia etc.
But by your dodging, I already know your answer.

You have failed to be specific and I don't have time to waste.

There are LAWS in Islam when it comes to crime and "killing" as you call it. The individual in the state has no right to take the law into his own hands, just like in non-Islamic states.

Persons are tried in a court of law in the islamic state with witnesses and evidence being presented, just like in non-Islamic states.

There is no law which says that is permissible to kill a christian or jew or atheist.

I hope that answers your question.

PS. Even from the prophet's time there have been dissidents (aka Khawaarij - Osama bin laden type) and later rejectionists (Shia and others). What they practise are not condoned by the islamic state. They are vigilantes, terrorists as commonly referred to. They are not followers of prophet Muhammad.

Um...no

BTW AdamB.
Do you think those killings in the East are just? Like killing christians because of their faith.
No beating around the bush, yes or no.

I asked if you PERSONALLY AGREE with killing christians, people who watch football and little girls who want education. You gave me a beat around bush answer, by stating what the law is about it.

[AdamB]

BTW AdamB.
Do you think those killings in the East are just? Like killing christians because of their faith.No beating around the bush, yes or no.

Well this was your question, the answer is no.

I'm sorry for getting technical and making you uncomfortable. The point I have made is that I agree with what is legislated by GOD. Outside of that is chaos, injustice, going astray, etc.

Muslims don't oppose Allah (GOD) and HIS messenger...

[Sky]

Well then the answer is yes.

[AdamB]

Sky,
Justice resides with GOD, the opinion of the slaves is of no consequence.

How could your opinion be of any value when you are deficient in the processing of information?

You first asked if it was "just" and then switched to if I "personally agree". What may seem just to one person may not be so to another person.

Also, there is a huge difference between justice (equity) and equality.

[AdamB]

Also, followers of religion "personally agree" with goodness, fairness, justice, peace and security. Religions teach these concepts and don't teach otherwise.

Enter those who don't "personally agree" with religion / GOD, why should they (in all cases) personally agree with justice, peace and security? What makes this the default ideas / concepts? And are they really?

For them to consider, what made apartheid wrong and Nelson Mandela a "great man"? Would his country have prospered better under white discriminative rule? What did nature intend if a supreme being / Creator did not will certain things to happen?

[Sky]

I asked if YOU THOUGHT it was just. That's the same as you personally agreeing.
Maybe you should attempt to insult my intelligence less and focus on comprehension.

[Chimera]

So adam. The only way your wife wont dress up for other men is because religion forces her to cover up? She doesnt have the free will to decide for herself to have respect for you and dress in a respectful way? She really wants to show off her body to all men yet....the only thing stopping her is islam? Interesting....very interesting

1. By "dressing up" I meant using make up and showing skin and cleavage.
2. My wife is happy and content to only expose her body to me. It is the evil godless society that has promoted otherwise.
3. Doh study my personal affair, deal with your wife showing herself and desiring other men.
4. What is "the ONLY thing" that prevents YOUR wife from horning you left, right and center?

Lol you try to force your beliefs down the throats of everyone yet you getting defensive when we ask why your wife like to show herself off to men but her religion stops her from doing it?

[MG Man]

Lol when yuh cya satisfy yuh woman, yuh ha no choice but to oppress she tuh prevent horn

[thermaltake]

Christmas roubd the corner guys. Lets kool it eat som pork, drink alcohol, party . Fight. Shoot.kill. fornicate.. after all its ah religious celebration what better way could we celebrate the ''so called " birth of jesus?

[meccalli]

Christmas roubd the corner guys. Lets kool it eat som pork, drink alcohol, party . Fight. Shoot.kill. fornicate.. after all its ah religious celebration what better way could we celebrate the ''so called " birth of jesus?

Well, Jesus didn't advocate any of those behaviors- as well as being the biggest critic of the religious people in his time; is your grammar reflective of your ignorance? or do you just speak without thinking?

[AdamB]

Well Jesus would be the biggest critic of modern day "Christianity" for what the religion has become is nothing close to what he taught. Just like the celebration of Xmas.

MG and ABA,
I feel sorry for you guys. You think that all women are like your wives or the typical women of western society. Some women, especially muslim and Jehovah witness, are chaste like Mary, mother of Jesus. Look up "chaste" in a dictionary or google it nah....

[AdamB]

I asked if YOU THOUGHT it was just. That's the same as you personally agreeing.
Maybe you should attempt to insult my intelligence less and focus on comprehension.

Sorry again Pal, will try to insult you less.

All of the laws of GOD legislated by HIM in Islam comprise knowledge, wisdom and justice. That's why I described in that manner that I did because someone may not see that something is just from one angle thereby not "personally agree". Yet GOD, the All-Wise and All-Knowing and All-Just knows the wisdom behind HIS rulings even though man does not see it or personally agree.

Like inheritance, a girl gets half the share of a boy. That's not equality but who says it has to be so. When you look at the angle that the man has to be responsible to maintain his household financially and the girl will get married to someone whereas she does not have that financial burden, you would start to see the wisdom...

[kevin5211]

Christmas roubd the corner guys. Lets kool it eat som pork, drink alcohol, party . Fight. Shoot.kill. fornicate.. after all its ah religious celebration what better way could we celebrate the ''so called " birth of jesus?

Well, Jesus didn't advocate any of those behaviors- as well as being the biggest critic of the religious people in his time; is your grammar reflective of your ignorance? or do you just speak without thinking?

i think he was being sarcastic and trying to point out what christmas has really come to. christmas time is the time of year alcohol sales skyrocket and d emergency department is packed with people sporting various fight related injuries chopping, buss heads etc

[meccalli]

That would make sense in a thread not titled,"The Religion Discussion", Trini people behave like that for every holiday. And yes Adam, that's why a term known as hypocrite exists. Many 'Christians, Muslims and Hindus', behaving like drunken idiots these days.

[t&t tech]

Some women, especially muslim and Jehovah witness, are chaste.

This.

I can personally endorse the jehovah witness women. I knw a few of them well. Really simple, loving, kindhearted women.

[t&t tech]

Some women, especially muslim and Jehovah witness, are chaste.

This.

I can personally endorse the jehovah witness women. I knw a few of them well. Really simple, loving, honest, kindhearted, dignified, chaste women.

[t&t tech]

Some women, especially muslim and Jehovah witness, are chaste.

This.

I can personally endorse the jehovah witness women. I knw a few of them well. Really simple, loving, honest, kindhearted, dignified, chaste women.

[bluefete]

World's top ten most significant people EVER (according to Wikipedia) lists Jesus Christ as number one, three Americans but not a single woman

Algorithm based on impact on opinions over time - and Wikipedia
Top ten most significant in history puts Jesus in the number one spot
The list also includes Muhammad, Lincoln, Hitler and Shakespeare

By Sara Malm

PUBLISHED: 09:46 GMT, 10 December 2013 | UPDATED: 10:30 GMT, 10 December 2013



Not Kayne West: The number one most significant person in human history is Christian prophet Jesus

With Jesus as a front runner it comes as no great surprise that the prophet Muhammad is ranked at number four.


Main men: Muhammad, the Prophet of Islam is ranked at number four,

Leaders of empires are prominent on the list with Napoleon as number second and Alexander the Great at number nine.

Alexander’s teacher and the founder of Western philosophy, Aristotle, is listed as number eight.

The list sees three US presidents, two of which were the founding fathers of the United States, George Washington and Thomas Jefferson.

Runners up: French military and politician leader Napoleon Bonaparte was listed as number two, followed by British literary icon William Shakespeare

Muhammad, the Prophet of Islam was ranked at number four
Abraham Lincoln, the 16th President of the US, and the first of three on the list

However despite their indisputable significance in history, they are both outranked by Abraham Lincoln, who is listed as number five.

THE TEN MOST SIGNIFICANT FIGURES IN HUMAN HISTORY

1. Jesus
2. Napoleon Bonaparte
3. William Shakespeare
4. Muhammad
5. Abraham Lincoln
6. George Washington
7. Adolf Hitler
8. Aristotle
9. Alexander the Great
10. Thomas Jefferson

The top-ten only lists one Briton, the formidable William Shakespeare, author of Romeo and Juliet and responsible for centuries of unreasonable expectations of love.

The only entry on the list which serves as a person of impact ‘lest we forget’ is Nazi dictator Adolf Hitler, who is ranked as the seventh most significant person in human history.

The is an unmissable absence of women on the list, which the authors explain is a result of centuries of inequality meaning the impact of female figures has not been as great.

In the book Who's Bigger? Where Historical Figures Really Rank, Professor Skiena and Mr Ward compare their ranking to Google’s system of ranking web pages in a search.

By collection millions of opinions on famous and infamous figures throughout history they have calculated, how successfully the idea of each person has spread in society through time.
President George Washington
Adolf Hitler

Two sides: Founding father of the US, George Washington, came ahead of Nazi leader Adolf Hitler
Big thinker: The brains behind Western philosophy, Aristotle, is listed as number eight

Tailing behind: Bringing up the rear are two other great leaders, Alexander the Great and Thomas Jefferson

‘We would call Jesus "the most significant person ever",’ Professor Skiena told Pacific Standard.

‘With over two billion followers a full 2,000 years after his death, Jesus is an incredibly successful historical meme.’

The pair use English Wikipedia as a base for their algorithm, which has led to some figures ranking higher than they ‘should,’ Skiena says.

‘Our rankings will continue to evolve with Wikipedia, and people can move up or down over time.

‘The highly ranked fellow most on the bubble is George W. Bush, who our algorithms put too high at 36.

‘This is an artifact of his having dominated coverage during eight years of Wikipedia's rapid growth. Objectively, he belongs in the main body of presidents we rank at around 200 or so.’

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... z2n4L2Zy2n
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

[bluefete]

[bluefete]

Money Talks!!!


Mormon church explains past ban on black priests
Associated Press
By BRADY McCOMBS 11 hours ago

SALT LAKE CITY (AP) — After Mormon church leaders lifted the ban on blacks in the priesthood in 1978, church leaders offered little official explanation for the reasons behind the ban, saying only they received a revelation it was time for the change.

In the three decades since, members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints have struggled to understand the roots of the old ban and grappled with how best to respond to questions about the touchy historical topic.

Even as recently as 2012 — when the issue flared up during Mitt Romney's run for president — the church said it has always welcomed people of all races into the church but that was not known precisely why, how or when the restriction on the priesthood began.

Now, finally, Mormons can point to a new 2,000-word statement posted on the church's website that offers the most comprehensive explanation of why the church previously had barred men of African descent from the lay clergy, and for the first time disavows the ban.

The statement, posted Friday, says the ban was put into place during an era of great racial divide that influenced early teachings of the church. It pins the prohibition on an announcement from church president Brigham Young in 1852. Perhaps most importantly, it addresses the once widely held notion that blacks were spiritually inferior.

"The Church disavows the theories advanced in the past that black skin is a sign of divine disfavor or curse, or that it reflects actions in a premortal life; that mixed-race marriages are a sin; or that blacks or people of any other race or ethnicity are inferior in any way to anyone else," the statement read. "Church leaders today unequivocally condemn all racism, past and present, in any form."

Mormon scholars and church members who have followed the issue closely called it a landmark moment.

"History and changes all happen due to time. This is way past due," said Don Harwell, a 67-year-old president of a black Mormon support group in Utah. "These are the statements they should have made in 1978, but better late than never."

Margaret Blair Young, an adjunct professor at Brigham Young University who made a documentary about the untold stories of black Mormons, called the new article a miracle. She said she'll carry printouts with her to hand out and that she plans to call missionaries in Africa who are often asked about the reasons behind the old ban.

"I'm thrilled," Young said. "It went so much further than anything before has done."

Mormon church officials declined comment on the article but said it is part of a series of new online postings to explain or expand on certain gospel topics for its members. Other topics include, "Are Mormons Christian?" and one about founder Joseph Smith's first visions.

Armand Mauss, a retired professor of sociology and religious studies at Washington State University, said the article is the most comprehensive explanation yet about the past exclusion of blacks from the priesthood and marks the first time the church has explicitly disavowed its previous teachings on the topic.

Mormon scholars over the years have written much of what is in the posting, but it is noteworthy coming from church headquarters in Salt Lake City, he said. He and other scholars were interviewed several months ago by staff from LDS Public Affairs in preparation for the new article, Mauss said, adding that it reflects a "new Church commitment to greater transparency about its history, doctrines, and policies."

The LDS church has come a long way since the Genesis Group was founded in 1971, said Harwell, who converted to Mormonism in 1983. While he noted that he doesn't speak for the church, he said he believes the next step is getting more black Mormons into church leadership positions. He serves as counselor to the bishop in his local congregation and can see how that is helping young church members change their perceptions. He didn't question the timing of the explanation.

"Maybe the Lord just determined this is the time for it to happen," Harwell said, "that this is when people are going to be able to accept it for what it is."

Matthew Bowman, an author and assistant professor of religion at Hampden-Sydney College in Virginia, said the posting is being widely circulated in the Mormon blogosphere.

"They were a lot of people really hoping for this," Bowman said. "Among the Mormon chattering classes, the statement is being taken as a pretty big deal."

___

Follow Brady McCombs at https://twitter.com/BradyMcCombs .

___

Online:

Church's statement: http://www.lds.org/topics/race-and-the- ... d?lang=eng

[maj. tom]

An ex-muslim explains to a possible convert why he left Islam.

An open and free discussion on the question: "Why'd you leave Islam (possible convert to Islam here)" submitted by Reddit user "possiblea2m" because he is considering converting to Islam.

Source Thread: http://www.reddit.com/r/exmuslim/comments/1sj5h1/whyd_you_leave_islam_possible_convert_to_islam/


One of the most upvoted and /r/bestof replies by /u/gromnirit

Are you converting to Islam or is it someone else?

I have absolutely no problems with people converting to Islam. My problem is when they enforce it on other muslims and non-muslims.

Take the Tableegh movement for example, they purport to spread good and forbid evil. But when it comes down to it, guilt tripping people to go for jamat (missions) is the name of the game.

I left Islam because of intellectual dishonesty. It does not appeal to my intelligence whatsoever. That isn't the thing doesn't bother me. Cat videos on the internet don't intellectually challenge me but I still love them.

The thing that bothers me is that I can't ask questions about the nature of Allah, I can't question the validity of rules that supposedly bind me in Islam. That's like saying: "f*ck you as$hole. You are a sinful shameful piece of coagulated semen and you have the audacity to question authority?" That's insulting me at the core of my being.

I am a human being with the necessary curiosity to understand what is happening around me. My kind was born on a blue planet but we managed to move our as$ to a grey moon because of our intelligence and curiosity. Who the f*ck is Muhammad to tell me what i can ask and what i cannot.

Like Eddie Izzard says: "I don't care who you are but if you create something and put it on the blue one, and they make it to the grey one, you come down and say hello"

The very concept of Hell is contradicting Allah's nature as merciful. Mercy is suspension of Justice. You can't, by definition, be perfectly Just and perfectly merciful. The very concept of Heaven contradicts our own nature. How can we be perfectly happy in Heaven if we know other people are suffering eternally in Hell?

To that effect, I seriously doubt you would even be human if you end up in Heaven. You need to have lust in order to f*ck the Hur but if lust is evil, it will get washed off from your body at Haudh al Kauthar. Then what difference does it make if Hur is beautiful or ugly? You don't have the desire to f*ck her anyway.

The Quran reeks of insecurity. There are many parts refuting the people who say Quran is made up. If it was really from Allah, he would just ignore them. After all, Allah knows best.

There is even one part that says that if the Quran is from anyone other than Allah there would be many contradictions in the Quran. What?! I can show you literally millions of books by humans that do not have any contradictions. does that mean they are revelations from Allah?

The Quran is not perfect. It has mistakes in grammar. It is filled with plagiarism. It condones hitting you wife for disobedience. It promotes sexism. It can't make up its mind whether muslims are friends or enemies of christians and jews. It defies evolution. It purports the geocentric view of the universe. It asserts that the universe is static. It is filled with anti semitism. whole civilizations are wiped out (man,woman and child) just because people can't satisfy Allah's ego to be worshipped??

Where is the god that doesn't want us to kneel in front if him and beg his forgiveness for not being perfect? Where is the god that cannot stand the sight of us on our knees? If i created millions of tiny robots to praise me, worship me and weep at my perfection, you would at least call me twisted.

I think man is greater that any god. We can create computer and already we are trying to make them as intelligent as we are.

I learnt in madarasah that Allah created angel, jinn and man to be recognized for his brilliance. Why didn't he create equals, that they may understand him better than us. why go through angels and jinns before giving up and creating us? is he not all knowing? or is he not all powerful?

There are many more reasons why I left Islam, but I think this suffices.

/u/gromnirit
http://www.reddit.com/r/exmuslim/comments/1sj5h1/whyd_you_leave_islam_possible_convert_to_islam/cdy4q3w

[AdamB]

1. It seems that apostate's main problem is not Islam but just that he has issues / attitude problem. I used to speak like that (profanity) before my islam but Faith settles in the heart and changes ppl for the better. It's like the saying,"you can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink".
2. How can you verify that this guy's story is true, that he was actually a muslim? He could be an atheist or following some other religion with a "bash islam for free" card.
3. He mentions Tabligh group. Are they the "muslims" who showed him what "islam" is?
While most of their followers are sincere, unfortunately they follow a group formed by a misguided Sufi. They focus their Dawah (calling to Islam) only to muslims ie trying to misguide unsuspecting vulnerable muslims. I won't go into the simmy dimmy stuff they do and in which they believe. Their knowledge of the most inportant aspects of the religion leaves much to be desired.

I was introduced to Islam by the Ahmadiyya group but I am not a follower of theirs, never was. It's up to the individual to search and find out what is the Islam that prophet Muhammad and his companions were upon. Allah is the One in charge of all affairs and HE can use even those who do not follow His prescribed way to accomplish good and great things. This would include Nelson Mandela (and Paul Walker?).

[RBphoto]

Pork is a good reason to leave Islam.

[AdamB]

Pork is a good reason to leave Islam.

Then tell yuh wife yuh divorcing her and marrying a hog!!!