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you want personal beliefs or facts?New_SPECIES wrote:Duane 3NE 2NR wrote:^ take a read
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christmas
Also
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christmas_tree
And
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Santa_Claus
I know info all over d net... But is wikipedia a Christian Site?
Is the explanations given on wikipedia the actual belief of Christians?
I want to hear from the Christians on this thread and what they actually believe/follow.
I want to understand what it means to them from a real Christian point of view.
Many say that it's based on Christ etc, well... we've heard arguments and defences about many other topics... so let's hear something about Christmas.
ok your replies are worrying now.New_SPECIES wrote:bluefete wrote:What do you get when you re-arrange the word "Santa"?
Wasn't really askin bout Santa, especially since we all know that was Coca-Cola's mascot.
But Fete... ent you's a Christian?
Enlighten we nah.
so what if it can also spell Satan? God can also spell dog. Does that have any significance?bluefete wrote:What do you get when you re-arrange the word "Santa"?
Duane 3NE 2NR wrote:ok your replies are worrying now.New_SPECIES wrote:bluefete wrote:What do you get when you re-arrange the word "Santa"?
Wasn't really askin bout Santa, especially since we all know that was Coca-Cola's mascot.
But Fete... ent you's a Christian?
Enlighten we nah.
Santa was not created by Coca Cola!!!
Duane 3NE 2NR wrote:ok your replies are worrying now.New_SPECIES wrote:bluefete wrote:What do you get when you re-arrange the word "Santa"?
Wasn't really askin bout Santa, especially since we all know that was Coca-Cola's mascot.
But Fete... ent you's a Christian?
Enlighten we nah.
Santa was not created by Coca Cola!!!
Duane 3NE 2NR wrote:so what if it can also spell Satan? God can also spell dog. Does that have any significance?bluefete wrote:What do you get when you re-arrange the word "Santa"?
Duane 3NE 2NR wrote:you want personal beliefs or facts?New_SPECIES wrote:Duane 3NE 2NR wrote:^ take a read
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christmas
Also
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christmas_tree
And
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Santa_Claus
I know info all over d net... But is wikipedia a Christian Site?
Is the explanations given on wikipedia the actual belief of Christians?
I want to hear from the Christians on this thread and what they actually believe/follow.
I want to understand what it means to them from a real Christian point of view.
Many say that it's based on Christ etc, well... we've heard arguments and defences about many other topics... so let's hear something about Christmas.
Of what value is it that an individual Christian has a personal belief about a Christmas tree or parang or sorrel?
The Christmas tree and Santa Claus are not in the bible, if that's the kind of answer you are looking for.
:lol::lol::lol::lol: Habit7 wrote:New_SPECIES I don't know where you want to go with this but, if your are trying to critique a religion you need to critique it from its orthodoxy then to its orthopraxy.
Pointing to cultural traditions and pagan influences of a largely ignorant population, doesnt equate to Christianity being bad.
First focus on what the Bible has to say about Christmas (critique it even) then see if the actions of those who celebrate Christmas are consistent with what it says.
VLDS wrote:Disregard AdamB. As far as I see he's a copy paste artist that has no independent rationale thought.
Aside from the topic at hand... ^^this is the statement that always really confuses me..Habit7 wrote:......God, entering into His creation as a man to save those who deserve His just wrath.
Habit7 wrote:The story of Christmas shows the Christ child Jesus fulfilled many Old Testament prophecies of the Messiah..... thus proving Him to be the one to take away the sins of the world. Thus we see Gospels not mentioning much of His life until He started His ministry at 30 years old and was then crucified at 33, where the sins of those who put their trust in Him was borne by Him and He received the just wrath that they deserved. He three days later rose again to new life so that one who repents of their sin and puts their trust in Christ will have their sins be paid for by Christ and receive the righteousness that Christ lived and like Christ they will rise again to new life.
I know alot of Muslim people who put up lights and decorations for Eid, exchange gifts etc.New_SPECIES wrote:Habit7 wrote:New_SPECIES I don't know where you want to go with this but, if your are trying to critique a religion you need to critique it from its orthodoxy then to its orthopraxy.
Pointing to cultural traditions and pagan influences of a largely ignorant population, doesnt equate to Christianity being bad.
First focus on what the Bible has to say about Christmas (critique it even) then see if the actions of those who celebrate Christmas are consistent with what it says.
Not tryin to make anyone or any religion look bad here partner..
Just want people who more educated in this field to educate the ones that are confused about what is really a part of the "True Christmas" and what has to do with other paganisms etc.
I have many Christian friends who are "not sure" as to what Christmas is actually about when I ask them.
Like I said, many people I know go to church, believe in Christianity etc, but teach their children about "Santa", put up a tree, hang up Mistletoe, hang up stockings, etc.
Even public institutions associate the Crèche (with baby Jesus) and these other decorations as part of the same.
It puts into the (confused) minds of others that maybe all these things are related.
But of course this is not so.
A "discussion" is not about bashing/insulting (as what many have done to certain religions in this thread), it is about sharing different views and opinions on a particular topic/area/field.
I myself might have my own views on Christmas but I am glad to hear what others believe and the "real story" behind it.
If the answer to any question posted here is "see what the Bible says" then no Christian would have posted anything, but here we are... page 571
A religious occasion; “Christmas”,
A “religion discussion”; during the Christmas Season,
I think that knowledge and enlightenment on Christmas seems most appropriate.
Like I said... Let’s clear up some misconceptions... Teach Others the “True Meaning”... etc.
Habit7 wrote:The true meaning of Christmas is God, entering into His creation as a man to save those who deserve His just wrath.
Duane 3NE 2NR wrote:I know alot of Muslim people who put up lights and decorations for Eid, exchange gifts etc.New_SPECIES wrote:Habit7 wrote:New_SPECIES I don't know where you want to go with this but, if your are trying to critique a religion you need to critique it from its orthodoxy then to its orthopraxy.
Pointing to cultural traditions and pagan influences of a largely ignorant population, doesnt equate to Christianity being bad.
First focus on what the Bible has to say about Christmas (critique it even) then see if the actions of those who celebrate Christmas are consistent with what it says.
Not tryin to make anyone or any religion look bad here partner..
Just want people who more educated in this field to educate the ones that are confused about what is really a part of the "True Christmas" and what has to do with other paganisms etc.
I have many Christian friends who are "not sure" as to what Christmas is actually about when I ask them.
Like I said, many people I know go to church, believe in Christianity etc, but teach their children about "Santa", put up a tree, hang up Mistletoe, hang up stockings, etc.
Even public institutions associate the Crèche (with baby Jesus) and these other decorations as part of the same.
It puts into the (confused) minds of others that maybe all these things are related.
But of course this is not so.
A "discussion" is not about bashing/insulting (as what many have done to certain religions in this thread), it is about sharing different views and opinions on a particular topic/area/field.
I myself might have my own views on Christmas but I am glad to hear what others believe and the "real story" behind it.
If the answer to any question posted here is "see what the Bible says" then no Christian would have posted anything, but here we are... page 571
A religious occasion; “Christmas”,
A “religion discussion”; during the Christmas Season,
I think that knowledge and enlightenment on Christmas seems most appropriate.
Like I said... Let’s clear up some misconceptions... Teach Others the “True Meaning”... etc.
There are two very different aspects of Christmas especially in the western world: there is the orthodox aspect where people celebrate the birth of Jesus and then there is the traditional and commercial aspect with decorations, lights, gift giving etc which isn't religious at all, just traditional and commercial.
A major part of having a worthwhile discussion of you wanting to "clear up some misconceptions" is that you need to let go of your preconceptions.
AdamB wrote:Habit7 wrote:The true meaning of Christmas is God, entering into His creation as a man to save those who deserve His just wrath.
Well if they deserve HIS just wrath, then why intervene? That's like what you see on some movies, like Terminator, going back in time to kill someone in order to change the future...
So according to the above, all the ppl who deserve the just wrath of GOD will be saved? Just like the Trinity, makes absolutely no sense...
Duane 3NE 2NR wrote:I know alot of Muslim people who put up lights and decorations for Eid, exchange gifts etc.New_SPECIES wrote:Habit7 wrote:New_SPECIES I don't know where you want to go with this but, if your are trying to critique a religion you need to critique it from its orthodoxy then to its orthopraxy.
Pointing to cultural traditions and pagan influences of a largely ignorant population, doesnt equate to Christianity being bad.
First focus on what the Bible has to say about Christmas (critique it even) then see if the actions of those who celebrate Christmas are consistent with what it says.
Not tryin to make anyone or any religion look bad here partner..
Just want people who more educated in this field to educate the ones that are confused about what is really a part of the "True Christmas" and what has to do with other paganisms etc.
I have many Christian friends who are "not sure" as to what Christmas is actually about when I ask them.
Like I said, many people I know go to church, believe in Christianity etc, but teach their children about "Santa", put up a tree, hang up Mistletoe, hang up stockings, etc.
Even public institutions associate the Crèche (with baby Jesus) and these other decorations as part of the same.
It puts into the (confused) minds of others that maybe all these things are related.
But of course this is not so.
A "discussion" is not about bashing/insulting (as what many have done to certain religions in this thread), it is about sharing different views and opinions on a particular topic/area/field.
I myself might have my own views on Christmas but I am glad to hear what others believe and the "real story" behind it.
If the answer to any question posted here is "see what the Bible says" then no Christian would have posted anything, but here we are... page 571
A religious occasion; “Christmas”,
A “religion discussion”; during the Christmas Season,
I think that knowledge and enlightenment on Christmas seems most appropriate.
Like I said... Let’s clear up some misconceptions... Teach Others the “True Meaning”... etc.
There are two very different aspects of Christmas especially in the western world: there is the orthodox aspect where people celebrate the birth of Jesus and then there is the traditional and commercial aspect with decorations, lights, gift giving etc which isn't religious at all, just traditional and commercial.
A major part of having a worthwhile discussion of you wanting to "clear up some misconceptions" is that you need to let go of your preconceptions.
Habit7 wrote:And pertaining to Christmas, a greater issue for the world is not those who go overboard for Christmas, but those who read Sura 9:29 and plainly obeys what it commands.
Birth date, Ancient Egyptians would parade a baby in a manger through the streets typically on Winter solstice (Dec 21st). Jesus birthday celebrations were arranged to coincide with the birth date of Mithra, Dionysis and Sol Invictus (Dec 25th).New_SPECIES wrote:Habit7 wrote:And pertaining to Christmas, a greater issue for the world is not those who go overboard for Christmas, but those who read Sura 9:29 and plainly obeys what it commands.
With this statement… are you giving the general consensus that this "Religion Discussion" is really a means of attacking Muslims and Islam rather than discussing various person's misconceptions/concerns?
Attempts to learn from others based on a present and existing season… is somehow diverted to something not even close to the present discussion…
How radical "muslims" and terrorism reach in your "Meaning of Christmas" contribution?
Diversion?
Habit7 wrote:^^^
The Truth About Horus
The mythical Egyptian God, Horus, was worshipped principally in two cult centers at Bekhdet in the North and Idfu in the south. Little remains at the northern location, but there is still a large and well preserved Ptolemaic temple at Idfu. So, most information about Horus comes from this southern temple. Horus was usually represented as a falcon, as he was a great sky God and the Son of Isis and Osiris. Let’s take a look at the claims we have already described and separate truth from fiction, and then try to understand the underlying hope of the people who invented the god called Horus:
Claim: Horus was conceived by a virgin mother named Meri, and had a stepfather named Seb (Joseph)
Truth: Horus was NOT conceived of a virgin. In fact both mural and textual evidence from Egypt indicate that Isis (there is no evidence that “Meri” was ever part of her name) hovered over the erect penis (that she created) of Osiris and conceived Horus. While she may have been a virgin before the conception, she utilizes Osiris’ penis to conceive. She later had another son with Osiris as well. There is no evidence of three wise men as part of the story at all (in neither Horus’ nor Jesus’ birth story for that matter!). Seb was actually the ‘earth god’, (earth itself, just as Nut was the sky); He was not Horus’ earthly father. Seb is NOT the equivalent of Joseph and, in most cases, he is described as Osiris’ father!
The Reasoning Behind the Horus Mythology: Clearly men dream and think about God, and when we do that, it is reasonable for us to imagine that God be in some way different from the natural order that He has created. It’s reasonable to assume then, that He would appear in a supernatural way, defying the natural order of things.
Claim: Horus was born in a cave, his birth announced by an angel, heralded by a star and attended by shepherds
Truth: There is no reference to a cave or manger in the birth story at all. In fact none of these details are present in the ancient Egyptian stories of Horus. Horus was born in a swamp. His birth was not heralded by an angel. There was no star to announce his birth.
Claim: Horus attended a special rite of passage at the age of twelve and there is no data on the child from the age of 12 to 30
Truth: There is no continuous effort in the Horus mythology to account for all these years, so there are no real gaps in the chronology. Horus never taught in any temple at twelve (as did Jesus), and keep in mind that Jesus didn’t ‘disappear’ in the years between His teaching in the temple and His baptism. He was simply working as a carpenter.
Claim: Horus was baptized in a river at the age of 30, and his baptizer was later beheaded.
Truth: Horus was never baptized. While the conspiracy theorists will often point to “Anup the Baptizer” and claim he was later beheaded, there is no such person in Horus’ story.
Claim: Horus had 12 disciples
Truth: Horus had only four disciples (called ‘Heru-Shemsu’), but at some point in his story there is reference to sixteen followers, and a group of unnumbered followers who join Horus in battle (called ‘mesnui’). But there’s no reference to twelve followers.
The Reasoning Behind the Horus Mythology: It is reasonable to imagine that God, if he was to come to earth, would then gather to himself disciples that would continue to share the truth with others.
Claim: Horus performed miracles, exorcized demons, raised someone from the dead, walked on water
Truth: Of course Horus performed miracles, after all he was supposed to be a god!! But there was no mention of exorcizing demons, raising people from the dead or walking on water.
The Reasoning Behind the Horus Mythology: It is reasonable to expect that if there is a God (a true God), He would have the power to perform the miraculous and control the forces of the natural environment.
Claim: Horus was called “Iusa”, the “ever-becoming son” and the “Holy Child”
Truth: No one in Egyptian history was ever called “Iusa” (the word does not exist) nor was anyone called “Holy Child”.
Claim: Horus delivered a “Sermon on the Mount”, and his followers recounted his sayings. He was transfigured on the Mount
Truth: Horus never delivered a “Sermon on the Mount”, nor was he transfigured.
Claim: Horus was crucified between two thieves, buried for three days in a tomb, and was resurrected
Truth: Horus is not reported to have died at all in the vast majority of story versions. There is also no crucifixion story. Instead, Horus is usually described as eventually merging with Re (the Sun god) after which he ‘dies’ and is ‘reborn’ every single day as the sun rises. (This is a bit of a stretch at a death and resurrection parallel). Now there is an unofficial story that describes Horus as dying and being cast in pieces into the water, and later fished out by a crocodile at Isis’ request.
The Reasoning Behind the Horus Mythology: If there is a true God, we would expect him to have mastery over death and be able to control the powers of death and life.
Claim: Horus was called “Way”, “the Truth the Light”, “Messiah”, “God’s Anointed Son”, “Son of Man”, “Good Shepherd”, “Lamb of God”, “Word made flesh”, “Word of Truth”, “the KRST” or “Anointed One”
Truth: None of these titles are in Egyptian history, but Horus IS called by several names you might expect for any god in mythology: “Great God”, “Chief of the Powers”, “Master of Heaven”, and “Avenger of His Father”. Horus was also not called “the Krst” because this word in Egyptian means “burial” (it wasn’t a title at all).
The Reasoning Behind the Horus Mythology: If there is a God, we would expect Him to be powerful and possess a title that reflects that power.
Claim: Horus was “the Fisher” and was associated with the Fish, Lamb and Lion.
Truth: Some of the conspiracy theorists try to show an association with fish (by virtue of the fact that Horus WAS a fish, very unlike Jesus), but there is no evidence that Horus was ever called a “fisher” or was ever associated with the Lion or the Lamb.
Claim: Horus came to fulfill the Law, and was supposed to reign one thousand years
Truth: There was no Egyptian “law” for Horus to fulfill, and there is no mention of a thousand year reign in Egyptian mythology.
VLDS wrote:Yet the first 5 books of the bible were written 2 to 4 centuries after Christ. Guess u Christian eye witnesses live a long time
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