The Religion Discussion

[Habit7]

Believers, time is limited for which every minute has to be accounted - find something better to do, increase your good deeds.

For all of us have become like one who is unclean, And all our righteous deeds are like a filthy garment; And all of us wither like a leaf, And our iniquities, like the wind, take us away. Isaiah 64:6 circa 700 B.C.

If only Muhammad could have read that...well he still might have devised Islam but at least he would not have erroneously said that it was consistent with Judaism.

Increasing our good deeds is of no use if we are guilty before a just God for committing bad deeds prior.
Keep fooling yourself. Why mention good deeds and bad deeds in the bible then? You misinterpret what the scriptures say to justify not doing any good!!

In order for God to forgive us we need the perfect righteousness of God in our account and for someone to suffer on our behalf the eternal wrath that we deserve. God has done this in man Jesus and our response should be repentance from our sin and faith in the Lord Jesus Christ.

Repentance does not require anyone to suffer "on our behalf", that's just passing the buck and not taking responsibility for your actions.

How do you find "perfect righteousness OF GOD" in "MAN Jesus"? He was a man, not GOD.

Tell me: How do you repent from sin? Is it by pointing to another saying, "he suffered, so I sorry, I doh need to suffer."

THIS MAKES ABSOLUTELY NO SENSE!!

I am quite willing to make sense of this for you. But for your sake, tell me how do you reconcile the fact the Prophet Isaiah speaking for God said that our good deeds are to God like the soiled rags that cover a body cavity, but 2,000 years later, Muhammad said that God is pleased by our good deeds. They are obviously not talking about the same God.

We know with Isaiah he has attested, fulfilled prophesy and the Dead Sea Scrolls proves that his writings were not modified after its fulfilment. But Muhammad doesn't not have attested, fulfilled prophesy and his words were compiled after his death and some were forgotten because they weren't written down, he was illiterate.

Isaiah seems more credible.

[AdamB]

Believers, time is limited for which every minute has to be accounted - find something better to do, increase your good deeds.

For all of us have become like one who is unclean, And all our righteous deeds are like a filthy garment; And all of us wither like a leaf, And our iniquities, like the wind, take us away. Isaiah 64:6 circa 700 B.C.

If only Muhammad could have read that...well he still might have devised Islam but at least he would not have erroneously said that it was consistent with Judaism.

Increasing our good deeds is of no use if we are guilty before a just God for committing bad deeds prior.
Keep fooling yourself. Why mention good deeds and bad deeds in the bible then? You misinterpret what the scriptures say to justify not doing any good!!

In order for God to forgive us we need the perfect righteousness of God in our account and for someone to suffer on our behalf the eternal wrath that we deserve. God has done this in man Jesus and our response should be repentance from our sin and faith in the Lord Jesus Christ.

Repentance does not require anyone to suffer "on our behalf", that's just passing the buck and not taking responsibility for your actions.

How do you find "perfect righteousness OF GOD" in "MAN Jesus"? He was a man, not GOD.

Tell me: How do you repent from sin? Is it by pointing to another saying, "he suffered, so I sorry, I doh need to suffer."

THIS MAKES ABSOLUTELY NO SENSE!!

I am quite willing to make sense of this for you. But for your sake, tell me how do you reconcile the fact the Prophet Isaiah speaking for God said that our good deeds are to God like the soiled rags that cover a body cavity, but 2,000 years later, Muhammad said that God is pleased by our good deeds. They are obviously not talking about the same God.

We know with Isaiah he has attested, fulfilled prophesy and the Dead Sea Scrolls proves that his writings were not modified after its fulfilment. But Muhammad doesn't not have attested, fulfilled prophesy and his words were compiled after his death and some were forgotten because they weren't written down, he was illiterate.

Isaiah seems more credible.

GOD is not in need of our good deeds, we are. You misunderstand or intentionally change the meaning of the verse you quoted. Once again, you only look for an excuse to fulfil your evil desires.

So is accepting jesus as your lord and saviour a good deed? If you do so, then is GOD pleased? Or is it to God like the soiled rags that cover a body cavity?

I agree, certainly we are not speaking of the same GOD.

[Habit7]

Believers, time is limited for which every minute has to be accounted - find something better to do, increase your good deeds.

For all of us have become like one who is unclean, And all our righteous deeds are like a filthy garment; And all of us wither like a leaf, And our iniquities, like the wind, take us away. Isaiah 64:6 circa 700 B.C.

No misunderstandings or changes, please reconcile two statements above.

[meccalli]

If i acknowledge you as a friend and agree that you did something wonderful for me, realise how valuable and irreplaceable you consider me, enough to die that I might be saved through taking on my blame and wrongdoing and facing the consequences of my action; is that considered a deed? And repentance is a turning away from the act. A vow to try, to your best ability, to never to do it again with God's help. This is why David that people like to point fingers at is greatly considered by God. When David repented, he meant it, he turned away and no he didn't get away easy- he had to pay for his sin immensely and harshly.

[AdamB]

Believers, time is limited for which every minute has to be accounted - find something better to do, increase your good deeds.

For all of us have become like one who is unclean, And all our righteous deeds are like a filthy garment; And all of us wither like a leaf, And our iniquities, like the wind, take us away. Isaiah 64:6 circa 700 B.C.

No misunderstandings or changes, please reconcile two statements above.

After the death of the king, Isaiah told the people to not forsake God and he warned Israel that the people must cease from their persistent sin and acts of disobedience. Muslim tradition maintains that the unrighteous people of Israel were angered and sought to kill Isaiah.

isaiah was speaking about the unrighteous hypocritical people of Israel. Did he call them to perform acts of obedience?

[Habit7]

Isaiah surely called them to perform acts of obedience because God commanded it from them. But he is in no way saying that their acts of obedience or good deeds merited any favour from God. 2000 years later Muhammad says otherwise, they can't be building on the same foundation.

[New_SPECIES]

Increasing our good deeds is of no use if we are guilty before a just God for committing bad deeds prior.

So then...doing good deeds in this life doesn’t really make much sense, right?

In order for God to forgive us we need the perfect righteousness of God in our account and for someone to suffer on our behalf the eternal wrath that we deserve. God has done this in man Jesus and our response should be repentance from our sin and faith in the Lord Jesus Christ.

What the Hell is that?

This is the one thing that No Christian can ever explain to me!

I am sinful... but I don’t suffer for what I have done!

I need someone else to suffer for my own sins...

And that someone is the same God... in the “man form” of Jesus!

So... in other words...
God created me... I sinned.... God turned himself into a man... Called Jesus... To suffer at the hands of wrongdoers... to punish himself for the sins of his own creation!

You saying "God is a just God"..... But is either...
(1) God punishing one man (Jesus) for the sins of Mankind or....
(2) God punishing himself, in the form of Jesus, so that when he turns back to god... he could then forgive Mankind!

WOW!

Repentance does not require anyone to suffer "on our behalf", that's just passing the buck and not taking responsibility for your actions.

How do you find "perfect righteousness OF GOD" in "MAN Jesus"? He was a man, not GOD.

Tell me: How do you repent from sin? Is it by pointing to another saying, "he suffered, so I sorry, I doh need to suffer."

THIS MAKES ABSOLUTELY NO SENSE!!

Is what I have been saying ever so long!

But Muhammad doesn't not have attested, fulfilled prophesy and his words were compiled after his death and some were forgotten because they weren't written down, he was illiterate.

What about Jesus? Was he “Literate”?

Did Jesus ever actually “write down” any of his sayings?

You always jump on the illiteracy of Prophet Muhammad bandwagon...
but u stray from the fact that Most of the entire Bible was written (and re-written) over 100 years after Jesus died!

GOD is not in need of our good deeds, we are. You misunderstand or intentionally change the meaning of the verse you quoted. Once again, you only look for an excuse to fulfil your evil desires.

I have told him those same statements pages ago and he was angered by it.

So is accepting jesus as your lord and saviour a good deed? If you do so, then is GOD pleased? Or is it to God like the soiled rags that cover a body cavity?

I agree, certainly we are not speaking of the same GOD.

Based on what Habit7 is saying... it’s probably not a good deed. It’s just something you have to do to be “saved”.

And the reason why his scripture and the Quran varies is because of the Hundreds of changes that the “wise men” of Christianity saw fit to change.. hence the endless versions and editions!

But it’s like spinning top in mud here!

Since Habit7 will just say...
That he read the books in the “original” texts, so it must be “original”.... etc....etc...

[AdamB]

Isaiah surely called them to perform acts of obedience because God commanded it from them. But he is in no way saying that their acts of obedience or good deeds merited any favour from God. 2000 years later Muhammad says otherwise, they can't be building on the same foundation.

You didn't answer this question:
Is accepting jesus as your lord and saviour a good deed? If you do so, then is GOD pleased? Or is it to God like the soiled rags that cover a body cavity?

The reward for good deeds is not for now, rather the Hereafter. At the end of the month, does your employer pay you your salary more than once?

[meccalli]

Isaiah surely called them to perform acts of obedience because God commanded it from them. But he is in no way saying that their acts of obedience or good deeds merited any favour from God. 2000 years later Muhammad says otherwise, they can't be building on the same foundation.

You didn't answer this question:
Is accepting jesus as your lord and saviour a good deed? If you do so, then is GOD pleased? Or is it to God like the soiled rags that cover a body cavity?

The reward for good deeds is not for now, rather the Hereafter. At the end of the month, does your employer pay you your salary more than once?

If i acknowledge you as a friend and agree that you did something wonderful for me, realise how valuable and irreplaceable you consider me, enough to die that I might be saved through taking on my blame and wrongdoing and facing the consequences of my action; is that considered a deed? And repentance is a turning away from the act. A vow to try, to your best ability, to never to do it again with God's help. This is why David that people like to point fingers at is greatly considered by God. When David repented, he meant it, he turned away and no he didn't get away easy- he had to pay for his sin immensely and harshly.

When hitler killed and executed. It was a good deed in his eyes and to the powers he obeyed. What do you think is his reward? We aren't employees to God, we don't need to do good deeds although we are encouraged to, to obtain God's inheritance for us at the end of this life.

[AdamB]

Isaiah surely called them to perform acts of obedience because God commanded it from them. But he is in no way saying that their acts of obedience or good deeds merited any favour from God. 2000 years later Muhammad says otherwise, they can't be building on the same foundation.

You didn't answer this question:
Is accepting jesus as your lord and saviour a good deed? If you do so, then is GOD pleased? Or is it to God like the soiled rags that cover a body cavity?

The reward for good deeds is not for now, rather the Hereafter. At the end of the month, does your employer pay you your salary more than once?

If i acknowledge you as a friend and agree that you did something wonderful for me, realise how valuable and irreplaceable you consider me, enough to die that I might be saved through taking on my blame and wrongdoing and facing the consequences of my action; is that considered a deed? And repentance is a turning away from the act. A vow to try, to your best ability, to never to do it again with God's help. This is why David that people like to point fingers at is greatly considered by God. When David repented, he meant it, he turned away and no he didn't get away easy- he had to pay for his sin immensely and harshly.

When hitler killed and executed. It was a good deed in his eyes and to the powers he obeyed. What do you think is his reward? We aren't employees to God, we don't need to do good deeds although we are encouraged to, to obtain God's inheritance for us at the end of this life.

Exactly the opposite, we need to do the things that the prophets have encouraged us to do!

According to you, Hitler sinned and if he had accepted Jesus as his lord, then he would be forgiven...no justice for those killed in the holocaust.

And what is GOD's inheritance? Inheritance is property passing at the owner's death to the heir or those entitled to succeed. Is it different from HIS reward / HIS Pleasure / HIS paradise (heaven as you call it)?

Does GOD lose something for us to gain same?

[AdamB]

Increasing our good deeds is of no use if we are guilty before a just God for committing bad deeds prior.

So then...doing good deeds in this life doesn’t really make much sense, right?

In order for God to forgive us we need the perfect righteousness of God in our account and for someone to suffer on our behalf the eternal wrath that we deserve. God has done this in man Jesus and our response should be repentance from our sin and faith in the Lord Jesus Christ.

What the Hell is that?

This is the one thing that No Christian can ever explain to me!

I am sinful... but I don’t suffer for what I have done!

I need someone else to suffer for my own sins...

And that someone is the same God... in the “man form” of Jesus!

So... in other words...
God created me... I sinned.... God turned himself into a man... Called Jesus... To suffer at the hands of wrongdoers... to punish himself for the sins of his own creation!

You saying "God is a just God"..... But is either...
(1) God punishing one man (Jesus) for the sins of Mankind or....
(2) God punishing himself, in the form of Jesus, so that when he turns back to god... he could then forgive Mankind!

WOW!

Repentance does not require anyone to suffer "on our behalf", that's just passing the buck and not taking responsibility for your actions.

How do you find "perfect righteousness OF GOD" in "MAN Jesus"? He was a man, not GOD.

Tell me: How do you repent from sin? Is it by pointing to another saying, "he suffered, so I sorry, I doh need to suffer."

THIS MAKES ABSOLUTELY NO SENSE!!

Is what I have been saying ever so long!

But Muhammad doesn't not have attested, fulfilled prophesy and his words were compiled after his death and some were forgotten because they weren't written down, he was illiterate.

What about Jesus? Was he “Literate”?

Did Jesus ever actually “write down” any of his sayings?

You always jump on the illiteracy of Prophet Muhammad bandwagon...
but u stray from the fact that Most of the entire Bible was written (and re-written) over 100 years after Jesus died!

GOD is not in need of our good deeds, we are. You misunderstand or intentionally change the meaning of the verse you quoted. Once again, you only look for an excuse to fulfil your evil desires.

I have told him those same statements pages ago and he was angered by it.

So is accepting jesus as your lord and saviour a good deed? If you do so, then is GOD pleased? Or is it to God like the soiled rags that cover a body cavity?

I agree, certainly we are not speaking of the same GOD.

Based on what Habit7 is saying... it’s probably not a good deed. It’s just something you have to do to be “saved”.

And the reason why his scripture and the Quran varies is because of the Hundreds of changes that the “wise men” of Christianity saw fit to change.. hence the endless versions and editions!

But it’s like spinning top in mud here!

Since Habit7 will just say...
That he read the books in the “original” texts, so it must be “original”.... etc....etc...

Calm down, they only reveal their evil selfish desires here for all to see, making fools of themselves. They do no good to themselves, much less humanity...just like the people of Isaiah.

Would like to get Merlener's comments on this topic as well...

[Habit7]

Repenting and believing in Jesus Christ is not a good deed, it is our right response to Jesus' good deed which was His death and resurrection. .

But back to my question to you, why does Muhammad contradict Isaiah?

[AdamB]

[quote="Habit7"]Repenting and believing in Jesus Christ is not a good deed, it is our right response to Jesus' good deed which was His death and resurrection. .
quote]
Is GOD pleased with the supposed good deed of Jesus? Will HE reward it?

[New_SPECIES]

Increasing our good deeds is of no use if we are guilty before a just God for committing bad deeds prior.

So then...doing good deeds in this life doesn’t really make much sense, right?

In order for God to forgive us we need the perfect righteousness of God in our account and for someone to suffer on our behalf the eternal wrath that we deserve. God has done this in man Jesus and our response should be repentance from our sin and faith in the Lord Jesus Christ.

What the Hell is that?

This is the one thing that No Christian can ever explain to me!

I am sinful... but I don’t suffer for what I have done!

I need someone else to suffer for my own sins...

And that someone is the same God... in the “man form” of Jesus!

So... in other words...
God created me... I sinned.... God turned himself into a man... Called Jesus... To suffer at the hands of wrongdoers... to punish himself for the sins of his own creation!

You saying "God is a just God"..... But is either...
(1) God punishing one man (Jesus) for the sins of Mankind or....
(2) God punishing himself, in the form of Jesus, so that when he turns back to god... he could then forgive Mankind!

WOW!

Repentance does not require anyone to suffer "on our behalf", that's just passing the buck and not taking responsibility for your actions.

How do you find "perfect righteousness OF GOD" in "MAN Jesus"? He was a man, not GOD.

Tell me: How do you repent from sin? Is it by pointing to another saying, "he suffered, so I sorry, I doh need to suffer."

THIS MAKES ABSOLUTELY NO SENSE!!

Is what I have been saying ever so long!

But Muhammad doesn't not have attested, fulfilled prophesy and his words were compiled after his death and some were forgotten because they weren't written down, he was illiterate.

What about Jesus? Was he “Literate”?

Did Jesus ever actually “write down” any of his sayings?

You always jump on the illiteracy of Prophet Muhammad bandwagon...
but u stray from the fact that Most of the entire Bible was written (and re-written) over 100 years after Jesus died!

GOD is not in need of our good deeds, we are. You misunderstand or intentionally change the meaning of the verse you quoted. Once again, you only look for an excuse to fulfil your evil desires.

I have told him those same statements pages ago and he was angered by it.

So is accepting jesus as your lord and saviour a good deed? If you do so, then is GOD pleased? Or is it to God like the soiled rags that cover a body cavity?

I agree, certainly we are not speaking of the same GOD.

Based on what Habit7 is saying... it’s probably not a good deed. It’s just something you have to do to be “saved”.

And the reason why his scripture and the Quran varies is because of the Hundreds of changes that the “wise men” of Christianity saw fit to change.. hence the endless versions and editions!

But it’s like spinning top in mud here!

Since Habit7 will just say...
That he read the books in the “original” texts, so it must be “original”.... etc....etc...

Calm down, they only reveal their evil selfish desires here for all to see, making fools of themselves. They do no good to themselves, much less humanity...just like the people of Isaiah.

I real cool u know... Is jus that men comin here and tryin to denounce Islam but defending theirs with statements that can't even make any kind of sense what so ever!

Even when you look at it from a illogical spiritual view..

[Habit7]

Well let's see what Isaiah prophesied about Christ 700 yrs before he was born:
But the Lord was pleased
To crush Him, putting Him to grief;
If He would render Himself as a guilt offering,
He will see His offspring,
He will prolong His days,
And the good pleasure of the Lord will prosper in His hand. Isaiah 53:10

...speaking of Isaiah

How come Muhammad contradicts Isaiah?

[New_SPECIES]

Well let's see what Isaiah prophesied about Christ 700 yrs before he was born:
But the Lord was pleased
To crush Him, putting Him to grief;
If He would render Himself as a guilt offering,
He will see His offspring,
He will prolong His days,
And the good pleasure of the Lord will prosper in His hand. Isaiah 53:10

...speaking of Isaiah

Here we are taking a parable of a verse....

.....and running with the meaning that God is going to be Jesus (or something like that..)


But it's strange though, when the Bible mentions verses similar to this, about the coming of Prophet Muhammad...

These verses were denied and other meanings were given to it.... with the Christian scholar “corrections”... etc.

Strange boy.... Real Strange!

[meccalli]

According to you, Hitler sinned and if he had accepted Jesus as his lord, then he would be forgiven...no justice for those killed in the holocaust.

And what is GOD's inheritance? Inheritance is property passing at the owner's death to the heir or those entitled to succeed. Is it different from HIS reward / HIS Pleasure / HIS paradise (heaven as you call it)?

Does GOD lose something for us to gain same?

If hitler truly was sorry for his sins, yes, that is the extent of God's grace. I also believe that true repentance means making amends like Zacchaeus. Hitler was special case, he was truly chosen as a vessel for destruction under the influence of domineering spirits that have tried to rid the earth of God's nation all throughout history, albeit, never succeeding. These arguments make no sense when using a modern english dictionary rather than context, inheritance is used throughout the entire Bible for the old to new and one definition doesn't make sense, it doesn't suppose a death neither classifies gaining some sort of possession. Heaven is another one of those terms that if we look closely, we see a few instances of heaven being the earthly firmament, atmospheric separation from another heaven that hosts planets/stars and yet even into a dwelling for supernatural beings(dwelling, first estate) and a separate facet for God's dwelling( father's house,paradise etc.)

[marlener]

There are a number of issues on the table presently being addressed. Firstly I will say that you don't do good deeds to be saved, but because you are saved by grace. I will be honest with all,I cannot explain exactly how God works when it comes to forgiveness,mercy and consequence of sin. The simple fact is that his love for us is above anything we are capable of understanding and while he loves the sinner he hates the sin.

[AdamB]

Islam emphasizes that no one will enter Paradise by his good deeds but by the mercy of GOD. However, that does not mean that good deeds will not be rewarded, there are levels in Paradise and ranking / grouping of people according to their belief, piety and obedience.

It is truly amazing that this type of information is not seen by some in the Bible. Do ChristiAns give charity? Is that a good deed? Do christians feed the poor and needy? Is this a good deed?

When Jesus said to love your neighbour as yourself, did he mean to treat them well and share your provisions, not letting them starve, etc? Is this a good deed that would be rewarded?

[rspann]

James 1;27

[blacklancer]

Live with honesty, integrity and humility and forget religion. Some ask for help, help with what you can.As far as charity goes, people use the idea to make themselves feel good.

[MG Man]

^^^^
good philosophy

[meccalli]

Islam emphasizes that no one will enter Paradise by his good deeds but by the mercy of GOD. However, that does not mean that good deeds will not be rewarded, there are levels in Paradise and ranking / grouping of people according to their belief, piety and obedience.

It is truly amazing that this type of information is not seen by some in the Bible. Do ChristiAns give charity? Is that a good deed? Do christians feed the poor and needy? Is this a good deed?

When Jesus said to love your neighbour as yourself, did he mean to treat them well and share your provisions, not letting them starve, etc? Is this a good deed that would be rewarded?

That wasn't asked, like I said it is encouraged greatly in the Bible to do good unto others, the widowers the poor etc., Jesus made sure and emphasized this as you pointed out as well as the disciples. And yes, there is some evidence in the scriptures that we are rewarded according to works whereas salvation is a gift we receive, its not very clear cut to me on that issue but its something of good interest to seek. @ lancer, Religion is a destructive thing just as is, a Godless mentality and society which shows why this world is in spiritual shambles with the advent of secularity and its occult roots, men like crowley are proof of that dark co-existence. Do what thou wilst,who cares, after all.... YOLO .lol

[Habit7]

Is it that you can't reconcile Muhammad with Isaiah?

One prophet said that to God, all our good deeds are like a menstrual cloth, unclean (Levitcus 15:19).
Another prophet said that to God, your good deeds wipe away your bad deeds.

They are obviously stating two opposing things. Either one is a true prophet or both are false prophets, but they can't both be right. Isaiah already has many fulfilled prophecies under his belt so credibility is already weighing heavy on his side though.

Please stop skirting the issue, is Muhammad right or Isaiah?

[i am an idiot]

I guess dis means u nuh gheein me de money. 1000 evil deeds on your record. Lmfao. :lol::lol::lol:

[neil stoges]

religion is a cult , sorry for those that got caught up in it for what ever reasons , maybe your parents preached it to you or you picked it up because it was the cool thing to do or you were seeing hard times , expand your mind people . i fight every day with the belief of a supreme being . i am not sold on the idea , but religion my friends is the down fall of believers . WAKE UP PEOPLE !

[neil stoges]

books written by men that no one can vouch for is meaningless . how can you base your lives on books that you dont even know who the authors are ?they could of been a drunks , druggies or mad men . you choose to follow the words of the unknown . wise up people

[neil stoges]

i could be wrong , but allyuh real stupid . waste your time praying and idolizing something thats not there

[neil stoges]

ok i done , i had too much to drink . but still allyuh c@nt stupid , peace!

[bluefete]

Islam emphasizes that no one will enter Paradise by his good deeds but by the mercy of GOD. However, that does not mean that good deeds will not be rewarded, there are levels in Paradise and ranking / grouping of people according to their belief, piety and obedience.

It is truly amazing that this type of information is not seen by some in the Bible.

2 Corinthians 12
2 I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) such an one caught up to the third heaven. 3And I knew such a man, (whether in the body, or out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) 4How that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter.