The Religion Discussion

[bluefete]

Are you aware that the apostle Paul spoke about a third heaven in the "inspired" bible?

Are you aware that the Book of Enoch describes seven heavens?

How did the early church come by this "inspiration"? If you get into the history of what the early church did to arrive at some of these things it would really make you wonder.

Jewish understanding of heaven was that there are 3 heavens, the sky being first, space being second and the celestial dwelling place of God being third. In fact in Spanish the word for heaven and sky is almost the same.

So what if the Book of Enoch says says there is 7? Its contemporaries at the time of its writing rejected it as inspired because it contained known errors. If there is any overlap in the form of direct quotation with inspired books of the Bible, then that means what it was saying there is specifically correct, not the entire book.

I know how the early church canonised the Bible, I have defend it here in the thread. It had nothing to do with the King James or Europe as you early proposed.

Was the Gospel of Mark the earliest written Gospel? Did the Gospel of Mark originally end at Chapter 16:8? And were verses 16:9-19 written by someone else?

Or did the Church fathers add on more to make it tie in with Matthew and Luke's later writings?

[marlener]

The harshness was to compare you to Rocknrolla/Turbotusty/ttcp. Not because something is mention means it qualifies as inspired.Bear in mind that the Bible is also historical in nature.

[Habit7]

Gospel of Mark was written between 50-70 AD

The earliest manuscripts dont have those verses but later others do. Most modern Bibles clearly footnote this. It contains no doctrine or teaching that is unique to other Gospels. It in no way takes away the from the fact the Bible the most verified textual criticised document and it shows manuscript variants.

Don't throw out speculation, show evidence that church fathers added it in (although, the 16 chapters prior already ties in the Matthew and Luke as Synoptic Gospels)

The harshness was to compare you to Rocknrolla/Turbotusty/ttcp. Not because something is mention means it qualifies as inspired.Bear in mind that the Bible is also historical in nature.

How is mixing uninspired teachings with the Bible any different than mixing Bible teaching with chakras and mystic meditation?

[marlener]

I think as I said that he had good intentions and probably didn't know that they weren't inspired,whereas the other goodly fella constantly boasted about his knowledge,studies and understanding. I made the statement based on posting pattern and perceived intention. I could be wrong about intention.I could be wrong on intention but hey I'm human.

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

Atheism has no doctrine or dogma

But atheism does have a doctrine. That doctrine is that there is no God.

doctrine
ˈdɒktrɪn/
noun
noun: doctrine; plural noun: doctrines

1.
a belief or set of beliefs held and taught by a Church, political party, or other group.

but what Church, political party or group needs to teach an individual something for that individual to become and atheist?

Atheists believe in something.

I'm sure atheists believe in alot of things, but God is not one of those things.

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

Full Definition of THEOLOGY

1: the study of religious faith, practice, and experience; especially : the study of God and of God's relation to the world
2 a : a theological theory or system <Thomist theology> <a theology of atonement>
b : a distinctive body of theological opinion <Catholic theology>
3 : a usually 4-year course of specialized religious training in a Roman Catholic major seminary

I am sure you saw #2 but let me illustrate it further to you.

If we were to get a group of people who believe in leprechaun or unicorns or, stamp collectors, trekkies, left handers, tuners, etc. and ask them what is their theological view of God, you will get a variance of views.

If we were to get a group of atheists and ask them what is their theological view of God, you will get in unison and solidarity, "He doesn't exists."

perhaps, depends on the group. I'd think most would say they do not have a theological view of God. Some might say "it" or "she" instead of He. Some might ask if you know that you are talking to a focus group of atheists and if you are being serious with your question.

But that aside, are you saying that solidarity and unison are what make a view theological? So you are saying if we get a group of geologists and ask them what are their views on the earth being 6000 years old and they say "that is not true" then that constitutes a theological view? and therefore by your previous logic, a religion?

[Habit7]

I am not saying that solidarity and unison are what make a view theological.

I am saying that atheists are those who have the theological view that no God exists, thus they have solidarity and unison in that.

[desifemlove]

Still waiting for evidence that atheism is a religion hahaha..

[desifemlove]

And what doctrine?

Again, is there a holy book? Morals? Dietary restrictions? An organised clergy? A belief in an afterlife?

A Nazi can be an atheist. A believer in human rights can be. A serial killer could be, as well as a humanitarian who cures injured children in war zones. Same non-belief in a God, but then wildly different morals, ent?

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

I am not saying that solidarity and unison are what make a view theological.

I am saying that atheists are those who have the theological view that no God exists, thus they have solidarity and unison in that.

in the definition you posted, Theology is defined as "the study of God and of God's relation to the world". Atheists do not believe a god exists, so how can their lack of belief be considered the study of God?

[Habit7]

Firstly that is in the definition you posted, I posted the more in depth definition from the same page. I think we went through this when you again self-defined the word "faith," but I will explain it again. When a dictionary lists definitions, it is not for us to pick one definition at the exclusion of others to our liking, we chose the definition with regard to the context the word is used.

And I hope to finally put to rest your self-definition of the English word "atheist" allow me to quote from a source you did earlier:

athe·ist noun \ˈā-thē-ist\
: a person who believes that God does not exist

Full Definition of ATHEIST

: one who believes that there is no deity

athe·ism noun \ˈā-thē-ˌi-zəm\

Definition of ATHEISM

1 archaic : ungodliness, wickedness
2 a : a disbelief in the existence of deity
b : the doctrine that there is no deity

Parse it all you want but even your own sources disagree with you.

[AdamB]

I am very well aware that these books are not considered 'canonical'. However, if you read the Bible you would see that some of these books were mentioned. Example, the Book of Enoch is mentioned in Jude in the new testament. The book of Peter also in the new testament mentions that the gospel was preached to those that are dead. This is also found in the Lost gospel of Peter.

There are thing mentioned in the Bible that are explained in some of these writings. The Ethiopian bible is the only one that carries the Book of Enoch. But the King James Version (European version) mentions it.

What you consider to be inspired was what was told to you by the Europeans.

My point is that many things in the Bible are supported and enhanced by these writings.

Concerning the Book of Enoch and Jude, having it mentioned in Jude is not the only criteria for canonicity. http://carm.org/bible-difficulties/hebr ... -scripture

The Gospel of Peter is written after Peter's death more than 100 years after the death of Christ. It is not inspired.

I consider inspired what the early church considered inspired. We have complete Bibles by the 2nd and 3rd century. The KJV was one of several English translations, but the Bible was canonised more than 1300 years before.

I dont know where you are getting this information from, but it is not Christian.
You are sounding no different than turbotursty/rocknrolla/TTCP

Are you aware that the apostle Paul spoke about a third heaven in the "inspired" bible?

Are you aware that the Book of Enoch describes seven heavens?

How did the early church come by this "inspiration"? If you get into the history of what the early church did to arrive at some of these things it would really make you wonder.

This right here is why the Bible is no longer the inspired word of GOD...because it is NOW the chosen words of MAN.

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

Firstly that is in the definition you posted, I posted the more in depth definition from the same page. I think we went through this when you again self-defined the word "faith," but I will explain it again. When a dictionary lists definitions, it is not for us to pick one definition at the exclusion of others to our liking, we chose the definition with regard to the context the word is used.

And I hope to finally put to rest your self-definition of the English word "atheist" allow me to quote from a source you did earlier:

athe·ist noun \ˈā-thē-ist\
: a person who believes that God does not exist

Full Definition of ATHEIST

: one who believes that there is no deity

athe·ism noun \ˈā-thē-ˌi-zəm\

Definition of ATHEISM

1 archaic : ungodliness, wickedness
2 a : a disbelief in the existence of deity
b : the doctrine that there is no deity

Parse it all you want but even your own sources disagree with you.

no they do not disagree with me. It seems to bother you though.

When you use a word with different meanings do you use it in the wrong context and use the meaning that does not suit the point to are trying to make? Or is it that words have various meanings depending on context for a reason.

Anyway, atheism is not a religion, there is no theology, no doctrine, no dogma.
At the end of the day atheism is the absence of belief just as someone would have an absence of belief in a flying spaghetti monster.

[Habit7]

The difference between you and I is that I acknowledge where I disagree with scientific theories based on historical science and I am able to put forward where these theories fall short and the alternative I believe in.

You however, as cited in the post above, conveniently use sources that agree with you (that theology is "the study of God and of God's relation to the world") and when they disagree with you (an atheist is "a person who believes that God does not exist" and atheism is "the doctrine that there is no deity") you almost figuratively stick you fingers in your ears and shout out your own dogma that atheism is the absence of belief and it is has no doctrine.

As a Christian I believe in the inerrancy of the Bible, you as a [question yet to be answered] seem to believe in the inerrancy of yourself. Your resolve is just as strong.

[AdamB]

Wow! Men actually debating / arguing about whether atheism is a religion or not!!

Believers, time is limited for which every minute has to be accounted - find something better to do, increase your good deeds.

Disbelievers, time is limitless - live it up!

[i am an idiot]

Wow! Men actually debating / arguing about whether atheism is a religion or not!!

Believers, time is limited for which every minute has to be accounted - find something better to do, increase your good deeds.

Disbelievers, time is limitless - live it up!

Yea boi. Take ur own advice nuh. Stop wastin time on tuner....increase your good deeds.

[QG]

Atheism has no doctrine or dogma

Except the theological belief that no deities or divines exists.

how is it theological belief to have no belief in something?

the·ol·o·gy noun \thē-ˈä-lə-jē\
: the study of religious faith, practice, and experience : the study of God and God's relation to the world

: a system of religious beliefs or ideas

what in that definition does atheism conform to that makes your statement true or even coherent?

Aye...this thread still exist!?

[AdamB]

Wow! Men actually debating / arguing about whether atheism is a religion or not!!

Believers, time is limited for which every minute has to be accounted - find something better to do, increase your good deeds.

Disbelievers, time is limitless - live it up!

Yea boi. Take ur own advice nuh. Stop wastin time on tuner....increase your good deeds.

The reminder benefits the believers....and the opposite for its opposite.

[Habit7]

Believers, time is limited for which every minute has to be accounted - find something better to do, increase your good deeds.

For all of us have become like one who is unclean, And all our righteous deeds are like a filthy garment; And all of us wither like a leaf, And our iniquities, like the wind, take us away. Isaiah 64:6 circa 700 B.C.

If only Muhammad could have read that...well he still might have devised Islam but at least he would not have erroneously said that it was consistent with Judaism.

Increasing our good deeds is of no use if we are guilty before a just God for committing bad deeds prior. In order for God to forgive us we need the perfect righteousness of God in our account and for someone to suffer on our behalf the eternal wrath that we deserve. God has done this in man Jesus and our response should be repentance from our sin and faith in the Lord Jesus Christ.

[nareshseep]

There are various sects of Atheism. Everyone who believes in their religion is an atheist of the other religions. Are there not many different types of Christians, Hindus, Muslim etc?
The same is for the atheists. Not everyone even in the same religion have the same beliefs.

The doctrine that atheist follow is based on philosophy. What is philosophy?
Philosophy is the study of general and fundamental problems, such as those connected with reality, existence, knowledge, values, reason, mind, and language.[1][2] Philosophy is distinguished from other ways of addressing such problems by its critical, generally systematic approach and its reliance on rational argument.[3] In more casual speech, by extension, "philosophy" can refer to "the most basic beliefs, concepts, and attitudes of an individual or group".[4]

The word "philosophy" comes from the Ancient Greek φιλοσοφία (philosophia), which literally means "love of wisdom".[5][6][7] The introduction of the terms "philosopher" and "philosophy" has been ascribed to the Greek thinker Pythagoras


From philosophy we get values and morals, which are subjective based on the individual. These values and morals may even come from "religious scriptures".There is a lesson to be learnt in the stories of all the religious texts. The ultimate aim of religion be it god based or otherwise is for the individual be at peace with the world and to serve mankind and not for them to gain a place in "heaven" When you have to control people on the same level as you, how do you differentiate yourself...we do that by saying that you can talk to the one above and you know the message and are (a)part of his holiness. Information is supposed to be free, but the withholding of information give some folks power. Why does the vatican have a "secret archive"? This is an example of how they maintain the status quo; keep the masses in the dark and the religion will live forever. And for the same reason the internet will have to be controlled in the future. information cannot be free for it creates unbelievers.

The brutes will always out number the gifted and will always win the war.
The brutes lack logic. The brutes will write the history. The religions we have today are the religions of the victors. The wise and defeated tell no tales for their voice/literature/people/beliefs is lost in the abyss of time never to be heard of again.

[pioneer]

Now come back from hosay celebrations

Hadda show we appreciation fuh de prophet nephew an dem

It was bess...plenty ladki

[i am an idiot]

Wow! Men actually debating / arguing about whether atheism is a religion or not!!

Believers, time is limited for which every minute has to be accounted - find something better to do, increase your good deeds.

Disbelievers, time is limitless - live it up!

Yea boi. Take ur own advice nuh. Stop wastin time on tuner....increase your good deeds.

The reminder benefits the believers....and the opposite for its opposite.

Buh like u ain't doing wat u say oarrrrr. Go from here boi. Post your good deeds in the good deeds thread. Doe forget. Allah won't have to record it that way. He could just log in to tuner when is time to judge you.
:lol::lol::lol:

[Habit7]

There are various sects of Atheism.

Wow, they are being to sound more religious

The doctrine that atheist follow is based on philosophy.

Duane says atheists have no doctrine, try to convince him of that. (hint: don't use sources he attests to, it doesn't work when you use against him)

The ultimate aim of religion be it god based or otherwise is for the individual be at peace with the world and to serve mankind and not for them to gain a place in "heaven"

Not with Christianity. Allow me to quote from a creed called the Westminster Shorter Catechism which is a question and answer document that outlines the practice of Christianity.
Q. 1. What is the chief end of man?
A. Man's chief end is to glorify God, and to enjoy him for ever.
http://www.creeds.net/Westminster/short ... chism.html
You can read the rest and see it places little focus on serving mankind and going to heaven.

Why does the vatican have a "secret archive"?

I really dont know, probably to conceal Roman Catholic information. However the history of Christianity and the Early Church is freely available in the Bible and the writings of the Church Fathers. It is in fact the best preserved historical documents of Antiquity (before the Middle Ages) we have.

The religions we have today are the religions of the victors. The wise and defeated tell no tales for their voice/literature/people/beliefs is lost in the abyss of time never to be heard of again.

Actually Christianity runs counter to that. Christianity started with the crucifixion of its leader by the hands of the Roman Empire and subsequently were viciously persecuted for hundreds of years. In spite this, it spread throughout the known world until the Roman Empire adopted it and perverted it and still persecuted it most ardent followers. Fast forward to the 15th and 16th century where the "Christian" state persecuted European Christians like the Puritans to such a point where they decide to set out to the New World and practise their religion there. Thus we have the Mayflower landing on Plymouth Rock.

Even today Christianity remains arguably the most persecuted religion in the World. When the atheists are the victors, we Christians suffer. http://www.foxnews.com/world/2013/11/12 ... ing-bible/

[AdamB]

Believers, time is limited for which every minute has to be accounted - find something better to do, increase your good deeds.

For all of us have become like one who is unclean, And all our righteous deeds are like a filthy garment; And all of us wither like a leaf, And our iniquities, like the wind, take us away. Isaiah 64:6 circa 700 B.C.

If only Muhammad could have read that...well he still might have devised Islam but at least he would not have erroneously said that it was consistent with Judaism.

Increasing our good deeds is of no use if we are guilty before a just God for committing bad deeds prior.
Keep fooling yourself. Why mention good deeds and bad deeds in the bible then? You misinterpret what the scriptures say to justify not doing any good!!

In order for God to forgive us we need the perfect righteousness of God in our account and for someone to suffer on our behalf the eternal wrath that we deserve. God has done this in man Jesus and our response should be repentance from our sin and faith in the Lord Jesus Christ.

Repentance does not require anyone to suffer "on our behalf", that's just passing the buck and not taking responsibility for your actions.

How do you find "perfect righteousness OF GOD" in "MAN Jesus"? He was a man, not GOD.

Tell me: How do you repent from sin? Is it by pointing to another saying, "he suffered, so I sorry, I doh need to suffer."

THIS MAKES ABSOLUTELY NO SENSE!!

[i am an idiot]

You make absolutely no sense. ^^^^
:lol::lol::lol::lol:

[AdamB]

You make absolutely no sense. ^^^^
:lol::lol::lol::lol:

Says the foremost expert in the field of idiocy:

World English Dictionary
idiot (ˈɪdɪət)

— n
1. a person with severe mental retardation
2. a foolish or senseless person

[desifemlove]

lulz!!!!

Look, philosophy is not a religious thing. You does realise that theology is technically a branch of philosophy, right? I'm there are many religious ethicists (,i.e. people who study morality), metaphysicists (study reality),

Also, philosophy is bad, but yeah it's where we get science, modern political systems/concepts, medicine, etc. from.....

[i am an idiot]

@ adamb. At least i gud at wah i doin. You hear fuh d longest while spinnin like ah top in mud. Gettin nowhere fast.

U preaching use time wisely. D fack u doe go n study d quaran or help a vagrant or sumn. Yuh wah preach assness on tuner.
Imma idiot n i admit it inno. Maybe is time for u to do the same.

[AdamB]

@ adamb. At least i gud at wah i doin. You hear fuh d longest while spinnin like ah top in mud. Gettin nowhere fast.

U preaching use time wisely. D fack u doe go n study d quaran or help a vagrant or sumn. Yuh wah preach assness on tuner.
Imma idiot n i admit it inno. Maybe is time for u to do the same.

maybe I'm using my time wisely by preaching to you, certainly you are "a vagrant or sumn" in need of my help.

Prophet Noah preached to his people for over 900 yrs and how many of them listened to his call for the worship of the ONE TRUE GOD?

[i am an idiot]

Yuh have morney orrr?
Gimme some nah boi........ah hear allyuh muslim people like to ghee way $$$, to poor people.
I rell poor. Meh range need some rims.
Yuh could link meh orrrr?
Doe forget allah watchin your deeds eh. So.................
:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol: