The Religion Discussion

[Habit7]

bluefete what book are you quoting from?

[bluefete]

bluefete what book are you quoting from?

The Forgotten Books of Eden - The First and Second Books of Adam and Eve. The website is below

http://reluctant-messenger.com/lost_forgotten_books.htm

[desifemlove]

These atheists refuse to believe that they are following a religion.

please elaborate

They testify about what they believe. They only difference is that the are afraid to mention God.

how do you define religion?

Atheism simply asserts there is no God.

A person could be of any description then provided s/he ent believe God exists. There are no rules to atheism as there are rules to a religion. You doh have to turn the other cheek, not eat beef, or pray five times a day.

[bluefete]

These atheists refuse to believe that they are following a religion.

please elaborate

They testify about what they believe. They only difference is that the are afraid to mention God.

how do you define religion?

Atheism simply asserts there is no God.

A person could be of any description then provided s/he ent believe God exists. There are no rules to atheism as there are rules to a religion. You doh have to turn the other cheek, not eat beef, or pray five times a day.

Do you have to believe in God to follow a religion?

[desifemlove]

As said, religions have rules. what rules of atheism exist? what rituals? is dey an athiest Easter? an atheist Deepavali? An atheist Bible saying what to do and not from God?

[VLDS]

Lol

[bluefete]

As said, religions have rules. what rules of atheism exist? what rituals? is dey an athiest Easter? an atheist Deepavali? An atheist Bible saying what to do and not from God?

Ease up dey bro. Atheists have nothing to do with God. That is their belief and their lives are based around their beliefs. The question to ask is what do atheists worship? They will tell you nothing. But they worship the idea that there is no God. A major rule of atheism is to believe that God is not real.

[Habit7]

bluefete what book are you quoting from?

The Forgotten Books of Eden - The First and Second Books of Adam and Eve. The website is below

http://reluctant-messenger.com/lost_forgotten_books.htm

"Although not considered canon..."

Dude, those are not inspired books. They are not authoritative on Christianity. Please take my advice and ground your faith in attested truth and not whims. PM me if you want me to forward you some resources.

[bluefete]

bluefete what book are you quoting from?

The Forgotten Books of Eden - The First and Second Books of Adam and Eve. The website is below

http://reluctant-messenger.com/lost_forgotten_books.htm

"Although not considered canon..."

Dude, those are not inspired books. They are not authoritative on Christianity. Please take my advice and ground your faith in attested truth and not whims. PM me if you want me to forward you some resources.

I am very well aware that these books are not considered 'canonical'. However, if you read the Bible you would see that some of these books were mentioned. Example, the Book of Enoch is mentioned in Jude in the new testament. The book of Peter also in the new testament mentions that the gospel was preached to those that are dead. This is also found in the Lost gospel of Peter.

There are thing mentioned in the Bible that are explained in some of these writings. The Ethiopian bible is the only one that carries the Book of Enoch. But the King James Version (European version) mentions it.

What you consider to be inspired was what was told to you by the Europeans.

My point is that many things in the Bible are supported and enhanced by these writings.

[desifemlove]

As said, religions have rules. what rules of atheism exist? what rituals? is dey an athiest Easter? an atheist Deepavali? An atheist Bible saying what to do and not from God?

Ease up dey bro. Atheists have nothing to do with God. That is their belief and their lives are based around their beliefs. The question to ask is what do atheists worship? They will tell you nothing. But they worship the idea that there is no God. A major rule of atheism is to believe that God is not real.

er.. yes, ent?

But then religion have rules, that's the point. atheism has no structure, but you haven't said how that ent so.

[bluefete]

As said, religions have rules. what rules of atheism exist? what rituals? is dey an athiest Easter? an atheist Deepavali? An atheist Bible saying what to do and not from God?

Ease up dey bro. Atheists have nothing to do with God. That is their belief and their lives are based around their beliefs. The question to ask is what do atheists worship? They will tell you nothing. But they worship the idea that there is no God. A major rule of atheism is to believe that God is not real.

er.. yes, ent?

But then religion have rules, that's the point. atheism has no structure, but you haven't said how that ent so.

Not true. Even the atheist article mentions rules and structures. Look at their form of worship again.

[MG Man]

What exactly are 'they' worshipping?

[desifemlove]

lulzz. i give up.

Unless you can say what rituals, morals, rules, traditions, symbols, myths, stories, dress/attire, or even beliefs in an afterlife atheists endorse, then i'll desist...

A Hindu and a Christian can say to me regarding the above they shouldn't kill, lie, steal, prayers in puja/the Lord's Prayer, the story of how Shiva became blue or how Abraham became God's servant, why the crucifix is the Christian symbol, or about reincarnation/Doomsday. I never known any atheist tell me similar, but then it takes all kinds

[Habit7]

I am very well aware that these books are not considered 'canonical'. However, if you read the Bible you would see that some of these books were mentioned. Example, the Book of Enoch is mentioned in Jude in the new testament. The book of Peter also in the new testament mentions that the gospel was preached to those that are dead. This is also found in the Lost gospel of Peter.

There are thing mentioned in the Bible that are explained in some of these writings. The Ethiopian bible is the only one that carries the Book of Enoch. But the King James Version (European version) mentions it.

What you consider to be inspired was what was told to you by the Europeans.

My point is that many things in the Bible are supported and enhanced by these writings.

Concerning the Book of Enoch and Jude, having it mentioned in Jude is not the only criteria for canonicity. http://carm.org/bible-difficulties/hebr ... -scripture

The Gospel of Peter is written after Peter's death more than 100 years after the death of Christ. It is not inspired.

I consider inspired what the early church considered inspired. We have complete Bibles by the 2nd and 3rd century. The KJV was one of several English translations, but the Bible was canonised more than 1300 years before.

I dont know where you are getting this information from, but it is not Christian.
You are sounding no different than turbotursty/rocknrolla/TTCP

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

Even the atheist article mentions rules and structures. Look at their form of worship again.

How is atheism a religion?

Atheism is simply a lack of belief. It is NOT a belief system with rules and guidelines on how not to believe in God.
Saying atheism is a religion is like saying "not believing in leprechauns" is a religion.

Are you part of the religion that does not believe in Greek Gods?

[Habit7]

I see you are back to redefining Atheism in your own image and likeness:

you word it as "denying", suggesting that atheists refuse to admit the truth, but that is not the case. How can you state something as fact / truth without evidence?

it is YOUR word usage that is errant. Myopia does not aid any discussion.

Ask Slartibartfast about that rape thing

It is your source Wikipedia that uses the "denying." Are you saying that you source is errant?
I have given you the etymology of the word, an atheist claiming that they "proselytise," the US gov't affirming that atheism is a theological view/group http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/201 ... ax-exempt/ and even here is the "world most famous atheist" describing himself as an agnostic because atheists believe no gods exist. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/religio ... exist.html

You have given your understanding that atheism is "a lack of beliefs" and that might be your view, but we English speakers prefer to call that agnosticism, not atheism.

my point is you can call it "pumpernickel", a lack of belief in something or even claiming something does not exist because there is no evidence of it is not a religion.

It is best you call it pumpernickel, not atheism.

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

I see you are back to redefining Atheism in your own image and likeness:

you word it as "denying", suggesting that atheists refuse to admit the truth, but that is not the case. How can you state something as fact / truth without evidence?

it is YOUR word usage that is errant. Myopia does not aid any discussion.

Ask Slartibartfast about that rape thing

It is your source Wikipedia that uses the "denying." Are you saying that you source is errant?
I have given you the etymology of the word, an atheist claiming that they "proselytise," the US gov't affirming that atheism is a theological view/group http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/201 ... ax-exempt/ and even here is the "world most famous atheist" describing himself as an agnostic because atheists believe no gods exist. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/religio ... exist.html

You have given your understanding that atheism is "a lack of beliefs" and that might be your view, but we English speakers prefer to call that agnosticism, not atheism.

my point is you can call it "pumpernickel", a lack of belief in something or even claiming something does not exist because there is no evidence of it is not a religion.

It is best you call it pumpernickel, not atheism.

You can call it that too if you want, does not matter. You can call it Fred.

A lack of belief is a lack of belief, regardless of what you want to call it.
Atheism has no doctrine or dogma

[marlener]

Habit7 you are being a bit hard on Bluefete with that comparison,he means well. I hinted to him about those lost books a few post up.If one takes the time to study them they would see the flaws and contradictions to the rest of the Bible. There are lost books that even promotes witchcraft.

[New_SPECIES]

Right after Elections... during which the deep dark thoughts of some tuners and their true beliefs were revealed...

The Hypocrites, Racists, Fascists, One-siders.... return HERE to defend a religion and prove authentic books of god?

WOW!

Truly a sign of the end of times!

Expect Jesus to return anytime...


A message for those who are of these attributes:

Matthew 6:1
“Beware of practicing your righteousness before other people in order to be seen by them, for then you will have no reward from your Father who is in heaven.”

Romans 2:3
“Do you suppose, O man—you who judge those who practice such things and yet do them yourself—that you will escape the judgment of God?”

2 Timothy 3:5
“Having the appearance of godliness, but denying its power. Avoid such people.”

Titus 1:16
They profess to know God, but they deny him by their works. They are detestable, disobedient, unfit for any good work.

1 John 2:4
Whoever says “I know him” but does not keep his commandments is a liar, and the truth is not in him,

Luke 6:46
“Why do you call me ‘Lord, Lord,’ and not do what I tell you?”

Luke 12:2
Nothing is covered up that will not be revealed, or hidden that will not be known.

[Habit7]

orthodox Christianity maintains that the Bible is inerrant, infallible, sufficient and inspired. Those Lost Books are not. If you think there are contradictions in Bible please air them because as demonstrated before in this thread they are most likely easily resolved with a clear explanation.

[Habit7]

Atheism has no doctrine or dogma

Except the theological belief that no deities or divines exists.

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

Atheism has no doctrine or dogma

Except the theological belief that no deities or divines exists.

how is it theological belief to have no belief in something?

the·ol·o·gy noun \thē-ˈä-lə-jē\
: the study of religious faith, practice, and experience : the study of God and God's relation to the world

: a system of religious beliefs or ideas

what in that definition does atheism conform to that makes your statement true or even coherent?

[Habit7]

Full Definition of THEOLOGY

1: the study of religious faith, practice, and experience; especially : the study of God and of God's relation to the world
2 a : a theological theory or system <Thomist theology> <a theology of atonement>
b : a distinctive body of theological opinion <Catholic theology>
3 : a usually 4-year course of specialized religious training in a Roman Catholic major seminary

I am sure you saw #2 but let me illustrate it further to you.

If we were to get a group of people who believe in leprechaun or unicorns or, stamp collectors, trekkies, left handers, tuners, etc. and ask them what is their theological view of God, you will get a variance of views.

If we were to get a group of atheists and ask them what is their theological view of God, you will get in unison and solidarity, "He doesn't exists."

[marlener]

@ New_SPECIES you are quite right and the possibility exist that I may fall into that group,hence the reason I prayer daily for forgiveness from all wrongdoing,acts of omission or commission.

[bluefete]

I am very well aware that these books are not considered 'canonical'. However, if you read the Bible you would see that some of these books were mentioned. Example, the Book of Enoch is mentioned in Jude in the new testament. The book of Peter also in the new testament mentions that the gospel was preached to those that are dead. This is also found in the Lost gospel of Peter.

There are thing mentioned in the Bible that are explained in some of these writings. The Ethiopian bible is the only one that carries the Book of Enoch. But the King James Version (European version) mentions it.

What you consider to be inspired was what was told to you by the Europeans.

My point is that many things in the Bible are supported and enhanced by these writings.

Concerning the Book of Enoch and Jude, having it mentioned in Jude is not the only criteria for canonicity. http://carm.org/bible-difficulties/hebr ... -scripture

The Gospel of Peter is written after Peter's death more than 100 years after the death of Christ. It is not inspired.

I consider inspired what the early church considered inspired. We have complete Bibles by the 2nd and 3rd century. The KJV was one of several English translations, but the Bible was canonised more than 1300 years before.

I dont know where you are getting this information from, but it is not Christian.
You are sounding no different than turbotursty/rocknrolla/TTCP

Are you aware that the apostle Paul spoke about a third heaven in the "inspired" bible?

Are you aware that the Book of Enoch describes seven heavens?

How did the early church come by this "inspiration"? If you get into the history of what the early church did to arrive at some of these things it would really make you wonder.

[bluefete]

Habit7 you are being a bit hard on Bluefete with that comparison,he means well. I hinted to him about those lost books a few post up.If one takes the time to study them they would see the flaws and contradictions to the rest of the Bible. There are lost books that even promotes witchcraft.

marlener: I don't think he is being harsh. He also means well. I think it was you who said that one must discern and test. I cannot agree with you more. We must study these things and while we have the Bible, we cannot ignore some of the supporting evidence of its writings.

Both the Book of Jude and 2 Peter reference the Book of Enoch. Does that mean we should not consider its writings?


There must have been good reasons why the early church rejected some of these writings.

Consider the following comparisons about Jesus' words and the Book of Enoch:

Blessed are the meek, for they shall inherit the earth. (Mat 5:5)
The elect shall possess light, joy and peace, and they shall inherit the earth. (Enoch 5:7 {6:9})

the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the son (John 5:22)
the principal part of the judgment was assigned to him, the Son of man. (Enoch 69:27 {68:39})

shall inherit everlasting life (Mat. 19:29)
those who will inherit eternal life (Enoch 40:9 {40:9})

"Wo unto you that are rich! for ye have received your consolation. (Luke 6:24)
Woe to you who are rich, for in your riches have you trusted; but from your riches you shall be removed. (Enoch 94:8 {93:7}).

Ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel. (Mat. 19:28)
I will place each of them on a throne of glory (Enoch 108:12 {105:26})

Woe unto that man through whom the Son of man is betrayed! It had been good for that man if he had not been born. (Mat. 26:24)
Where will the habitation of sinners be . . . who have rejected the Lord of spirits. It would have been better for them, had they never been born. (Enoch 38:2 {38:2})

between us and you there is a great gulf fixed. (Luke 16:26)
by a chasm . . . [are] their souls are separated (Enoch 22: 9,11{22:10,12})

In my Father's house are many mansions (John 14:2)
In that day shall the Elect One sit upon a throne of glory, and shall choose their conditions and countless habitations. (Enoch 45:3 {45:3})

that ye may be called the children of light (John 12:36)
the good from the generation of light (Enoch 108:11 {105: 25})

the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting life. (John 4:14)
all the thirsty drank, and were filled with wisdom, having their habitation with the righteous, the elect, and the holy. (Enoch 48:1 {48:1})

[bluefete]

bluefete what book are you quoting from?

The Forgotten Books of Eden - The First and Second Books of Adam and Eve. The website is below

http://reluctant-messenger.com/lost_forgotten_books.htm

"Although not considered canon..."

Dude, those are not inspired books. They are not authoritative on Christianity. Please take my advice and ground your faith in attested truth and not whims. PM me if you want me to forward you some resources.

Please do send them. I will read.

[bluefete]

Atheism has no doctrine or dogma

But atheism does have a doctrine. That doctrine is that there is no God.

doctrine
ˈdɒktrɪn/
noun
noun: doctrine; plural noun: doctrines

1.
a belief or set of beliefs held and taught by a Church, political party, or other group.

[bluefete]

Atheists believe in something.

[Habit7]

Are you aware that the apostle Paul spoke about a third heaven in the "inspired" bible?

Are you aware that the Book of Enoch describes seven heavens?

How did the early church come by this "inspiration"? If you get into the history of what the early church did to arrive at some of these things it would really make you wonder.

Jewish understanding of heaven was that there are 3 heavens, the sky being first, space being second and the celestial dwelling place of God being third. In fact in Spanish the word for heaven and sky is almost the same.

So what if the Book of Enoch says says there is 7? Its contemporaries at the time of its writing rejected it as inspired because it contained known errors. If there is any overlap in the form of direct quotation with inspired books of the Bible, then that means what it was saying there is specifically correct, not the entire book.

I know how the early church canonised the Bible, I have defend it here in the thread. It had nothing to do with the King James or Europe as you early proposed.