The Religion Discussion

[bluefete]

He sacrificed his life, if god just wanted a sacrificial body, why not ask abraham? Wasn't he faithful?
Jesus did not have to come here and die to create a passage from here to heaven. You think god could not have just allowed us to come?
We not supposed to go there anyway. What is the earth some kinda testing ground? Not logical.

God sent him because adam was perfect and he sinned. Jesus came to prove that a perfect man could live and remain faithful til death under trials. Hence a perfect life was sacrificed for all imperfect humans.

Lemme ask u something.
Do muslims believe zecariah wrote the bible?

And do muslims believe in the entire bible or part?

Abraham was faithful and God did ask him to sacrifice his son Isaac. Abraham was tested by God as a precursor to God sending his son Jesus to die for our sins.

Wrong again, it was his only son at the time, Ishmael.

Also, was Jesus a perfect man or son of GOD?

By then Ishmael was living in Egypt somewhere with his mother Hagar, the Egyptian. Ishmael was not the one God asked Abraham to sacrifice.

[TTCP]

i tell them read the story and they skim through it and coming to argroo. if u read it before.. read it again now and u might see something new.

goodnight, have to wake up with the roosters in the morning. laters

[AdamB]

[God pretends.

???

[AdamB]

He sacrificed his life, if god just wanted a sacrificial body, why not ask abraham? Wasn't he faithful?
Jesus did not have to come here and die to create a passage from here to heaven. You think god could not have just allowed us to come?
We not supposed to go there anyway. What is the earth some kinda testing ground? Not logical.

God sent him because adam was perfect and he sinned. Jesus came to prove that a perfect man could live and remain faithful til death under trials. Hence a perfect life was sacrificed for all imperfect humans.

Lemme ask u something.
Do muslims believe zecariah wrote the bible?

And do muslims believe in the entire bible or part?

Abraham was faithful and God did ask him to sacrifice his son Isaac. Abraham was tested by God as a precursor to God sending his son Jesus to die for our sins.

Wrong again, it was his only son at the time, Ishmael.

Also, was Jesus a perfect man or son of GOD?

By then Ishmael was living in Egypt somewhere with his mother Hagar, the Egyptian. Ishmael was not the one God asked Abraham to sacrifice.

The bible here affirms ishmael to be the son of Abraham:
Genesis 25:9 Then his sons Isaac and Ishmael, buried him (Abraham) in the cave of Machpelah.

Now which son was born first and was the ONLY SON to be offered as a burnt offering? :

Genesis 22:2: "Take now your son, your only son, whom you love,_______, and go to the land of Moriah; and offer him there as a burnt offering on one of the mountains".

Genesis 22:12: "Since you have not withheld your son, your only son, from me."

Ishmael not Isaac!!! The jews have blotted out that tiny piece of information from the bible.

[TTCP]

before that Sarah asked Abraham to send away Hagar and her son because she saw him mocking isaac. Abraham, advised by God, sent them away and God also made Ishmael a ruler of a nation.

when Abraham was tested Isaac was his only son born to his wife and of his true inheritance.

www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Genesis+21

www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Genesis+22

[AdamB]

before that Sarah asked Abraham to send away Hagar and her son because she saw him mocking isaac. Abraham, advised by God, sent them away and God also made Ishmael a ruler of a nation.

when Abraham was tested Isaac was his only son born to his wife and of his true inheritance.

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Genesis+21

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Genesis+22

All lies pal. Hagar carried a 17 year old boy on her shoulder and hid him under a bush when the water ran out?

Read between the lines in your bible!

[marlener]

Ttcp you are now on the same level with the one known as Rocknrolla, the 9th Chakara. I think maybe you and him need to have a talk.As I said please quote your source because your posts are not biblically supported.To answer your question I have studied the bible hence the reason I can say with certainty that your statements are not biblical. Again I recommend prayer when reading and even more prayer when Studying the bible.

[TTCP]

steups allyuh too harden yes. i am rocknrolla. exits thread permanently.
9th chakra begins my time of silence anyway. no more preaching for me for a while. laters people.

[Chimera]

Hear this na. Serious question. Allyuh feel the toothfairy does pay for dentures? Same going rate as regular teeth or she does pay by the ounce? Figured this was the best thread to ask.

[MG Man]

depends....I like the tooth fairies featured in Hellboy; The Golden Army
Pretty sure they don't pay one fukc

[Habit7]

Hear this na. Serious question. Allyuh feel the toothfairy does pay for dentures? Same going rate as regular teeth or she does pay by the ounce? Figured this was the best thread to ask.

Tooth fairy question really doesnt belong here, you might have to start another thread for that.

The only incredulous things discussed here are God, aliens, nature coming about through natural law and macroevolution. There were attempts by some to equate these with leprechauns and unicorns but with little effort, it was shown that these like tooth fairies, don't have supporting evidence to prove that they are true or even purport themselves to be true.

[MG Man]

same for Jesus' miracles, so your point is thus invalid

[DFC]

thread is going in circles.

[Habit7]

same for Jesus' miracles, so your point is thus invalid

"Now there was about this time Jesus, a wise man, if it be lawful to call him a man, for he was a doer of wonderful works, a teacher of such men as receive the truth with pleasure. He drew over to him both many of the Jews, and many of the Gentiles. He was the Christ, and when Pilate, at the suggestion of the principal men among us, had condemned him to the cross, those that loved him at the first did not forsake him; for he appeared to them alive again the third day; as the divine prophets had foretold these and ten thousand other wonderful things concerning him. And the tribe of Christians so named from him are not extinct at this day."

Antiquities of the Jews by Flavius Josephus, 1st century AD

Even if you chose to the reject the New Testament (the earliest, most attested and verifiable document on the life of Jesus) there are other sources that speak of the miracles and resurrection of the man that divides our calendar (to say the least).

[hydroep]

Talk about your "oxymorons":

...Nearly three dozen gatherings dubbed "atheist mega-churches" by supporters and detractors have sprung up around the U.S. and Australia — with more to come — after finding success in Great Britain earlier this year. The movement fueled by social media and spearheaded by two prominent British comedians is no joke....

http://news.yahoo.com/atheist-mega-churches-root-across-us-world-214619648.html

[MG Man]

looks like a genius figured out how to make money like a big church, without needing a big church....pretty cool idea tho

[marlener]

Presently a group of atheists have gone to court because they are being classed as a church,a definition they strongly deny.This one might head in the same direction soon.

[marlener]

Ttcp if you are indeed Rocknrolla,I am convinced that you are bipolar,when you Turbotusty,younwere all over the place making little sense,you evolved in Rocknrolla at a rather rapid pace and make some worthwhile contributions,yet still being controversial,now you have regressed to ttcp making little to no sense. I doubt you are all the same. But then being bipolar might account for the multiple accounts on tuner.

[maj. tom]

The man is a pokemon. He does evolve.

Also that is not what bipolar disorder is. Not even remotely.

[nareshseep]

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-201_162-576 ... u.s-world/

It looked like a typical Sunday morning at any mega-church. Several hundred people, including families with small children, packed in for more than an hour of rousing music, an inspirational talk and some quiet reflection. The only thing missing was God.

Nearly three dozen gatherings dubbed "atheist mega-churches" by supporters and detractors have sprung up around the U.S. and Australia - with more to come - after finding success in Great Britain earlier this year. The movement fueled by social media and spearheaded by two prominent British comedians is no joke.

On Sunday, the inaugural Sunday Assembly in Los Angeles attracted several hundred people bound by their belief in non-belief. Similar gatherings in San Diego, Nashville, New York and other U.S. cities have drawn hundreds of atheists seeking the camaraderie of a congregation without religion or ritual.

The founders, British duo Sanderson Jones and Pippa Evans, are currently on a tongue-in-cheek "40 Dates, 40 Nights" tour around the U.S. and Australia to drum up donations and help launch new Sunday Assemblies. They hope to raise more than $800,000 that will help atheists launch their pop-up congregations around the world. So far, they have raised about $50,000.

They don't bash believers but want to find a new way to meet likeminded people, engage in the community and make their presence more visible in a landscape dominated by faith.

Atheists unveil "first" monument on government property

Jones got the first inkling for the idea while leaving a Christmas carol concert six years ago.

Play Video
Atheist questions pres on federally-funded religious orgs

"There was so much about it that I loved, but it's a shame because at the heart of it, it's something I don't believe in," Jones said. "If you think about church, there's very little that's bad. It's singing awesome songs, hearing interesting talks, thinking about improving yourself and helping other people - and doing that in a community with wonderful relationships. What part of that is not to like?"

The movement dovetails with new studies that show an increasing number of Americans are drifting from any religious affiliation.

The Pew Forum on Religion & Public Life released a study last year that found 20 percent of Americans say they have no religious affiliation, an increase from 15 percent in the last five years. Pew researchers stressed, however, that the category also encompassed majorities of people who said they believed in God but had no ties with organized religion and people who consider themselves "spiritual" but not "religious."

Sunday Assembly - whose motto is Live Better, Help Often, Wonder More - taps into that universe of people who left their faith but now miss the community church provided, said Phil Zuckerman, a professor of secular studies at Pitzer College in Claremont.

It also plays into a feeling among some atheists that they should make themselves more visible. For example, last December, an atheist in Santa Monica created an uproar - and triggered a lawsuit - when he set up a godless display amid Christian nativity scenes that were part of a beloved, decades-old tradition.

"In the U.S., there's a little bit of a feeling that if you're not religious, you're not patriotic. I think a lot of secular people say, 'Hey, wait a minute. We are charitable, we are good people, we're good parents and we are just as good citizens as you and we're going to start a church to prove it," said Zuckerman. "It's still a minority, but there's enough of them now."

That impulse, however, has raised the ire of those who have spent years pushing back against the idea that atheism itself is a religion.

"The idea that you're building an entire organization based on what you don't believe, to me, sounds like an offense against sensibility," said Michael Luciano, a self-described atheist who was raised Roman Catholic but left when he became disillusioned.

"There's something not OK with appropriating all of this religious language, imagery and ritual for atheism," said Luciano, who blogged about the movement at the site policymic.com.

That sentiment didn't seem to detract from the excitement Sunday at the inaugural meeting in Los Angeles.

Hundreds of atheists and atheist-curious packed into a Hollywood auditorium for a boisterous service filled with live music, moments of reflection, an "inspirational talk" about forgotten - but important - inventors and scientists and some stand-up comedy.

During the service, attendees stomped their feet, clapped their hands and cheered as Jones and Evans led the group through rousing renditions of "Lean on Me," ''Here Comes the Sun" and other hits that took the place of gospel songs. Congregants dissolved into laughter at a get-to-know-you game that involved clapping and slapping the hands of the person next to them and applauded as members of the audience spoke about community service projects they had started in LA.

At the end, volunteers passed cardboard boxes for donations as attendees mingled over coffee and pastries and children played on the floor.

For atheist Elijah Senn, the morning was perfect.

"I think the image that we have put forward in a lot of ways has been a scary, mean, we want to tear down the walls, we want to do destructive things kind of image is what a lot of people have of us," he said. "I'm really excited to be able to come together and show that it's not about destruction. It's about making things and making things better."

[AdamB]

Pertaining to TTCP, rocknrolla and turbotusty, I suspected as much. If some could believe in 3 gods in 1, then what's wrong with this guy...he claimed great things, like Jesus, maybe he is the reincarnation of the latter???

[AdamB]

Naresh Seepersad beat back Pioneer with trolling on this thread!!

[bluefete]

These atheists refuse to believe that they are following a religion.

[marlener]

Maj Tom you need to read through of the individual's post and you'll see the bipolar aspect.lol.
Ah wonder if they have rules and constitution and thing?

[MG Man]

These atheists refuse to believe that they are following a religion.

please elaborate

[AdamB]

Atheists = Refuse to believe = LOL!!!

[kevin5211]

Hello all,

I would like to ask a few questions and I hope noone takes offence as these are just to satisfy my curiousity

1. Christians say they do not worship idols. But they seek out the image of jesus on the cross.is this not an idol?

2. I am not versed in bible study but I cannot understand. If adam and eve were the first humans, and cain and abel were their first and second children. When cain killed abel it is said he left and moved and settled with another tribe. The question is where did the other tribe of people come from ?

3. Is there proof that the bible is the word of god and not the teachings of possibly one man who tried to unite people and have them live honorably by claiming it to the existence of a higher being?

[Habit7]

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=267363&start=15930#p7190730

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=267363&start=16380#p7366631

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=267363&start=15510#p7133283
(you will need to show evidence that it is the teaching of one man and who that man is)

[bluefete]

Hello all,

I would like to ask a few questions and I hope noone takes offence as these are just to satisfy my curiousity

1. Christians say they do not worship idols. But they seek out the image of jesus on the cross.is this not an idol?

2. I am not versed in bible study but I cannot understand. If adam and eve were the first humans, and cain and abel were their first and second children. When cain killed abel it is said he left and moved and settled with another tribe. The question is where did the other tribe of people come from ?

3. Is there proof that the bible is the word of god and not the teachings of possibly one man who tried to unite people and have them live honorably by claiming it to the existence of a higher being?

Very good questions.

1) An idol is something you bow down to and worship or pray to. The second commandment says that Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven images (idols) of anything in heaven or earth. Nor shall you bow down and worship it. The Catholic Church conveniently leaves this out in their version of the 10 commandments. Also Moses did make an image of a snake but it was not for the children of Israel to worship but to look at.

2) All came from Adam and Eve. In the earlies, incest was the means by which the species procreated. So Adam and Eve had children who had children. Can and Abel were not the only ones. Their first daughter was called Luluwa then came Abel and Aklia.:


First Book of Adam and Eve
Chapter LXXIV - The birth of Cain and Luluwa. Why they received those names.

1 And they lived on the earth working in order to keep their bodies in good health; and they continued so until the nine months of Eve's pregnancy were over, and the time drew near when she must give birth. 2 Then she said to Adam, "The signs placed in this cave since we left the garden indicate that this is a pure place and we will be praying in it again some time. It is not appropriate then, that I should give birth in it. Let us instead go to the sheltering rock cave that was formed by the command of God when Satan threw a big rock down on us in an attempt to kill us with it. 3 Adam then took Eve to that cave. When the time came for her to give birth, she strained a lot. Adam felt sorry, and he was very worried about her because she was close to death and the words of God to her were being fulfilled: "In suffering shall you bear a child, and in sorrow shall you bring forth a child." 4 But when Adam saw the distress in which Eve was, he got up and prayed to God, and said, "O Lord, look at me with the eye of Your mercy, and bring her out of her distress."

5 And God looked at His maid-servant Eve, and delivered her, and she gave birth to her first-born son, and with him a daughter. 6 The Adam rejoiced at Eve's deliverance, and also over the children she had borne him. And Adam ministered to Eve in the cave, until the end of eight days; when they named the son Cain, and the daughter Luluwa. 7 The meaning of Cain is "hater," because he hated his sister in their mother's womb; before they came out of it. Therefore Adam named him Cain. 8 But Luluwa means "beautiful," because she was more beautiful than her mother. 9 Then Adam and Eve waited until Cain and his sister were forty days old, when Adam said to Eve, "We will make an offering and offer it up in behalf of the children." 10 And Eve said, "We will make one offering for the first-born son and then later we shall make one for the daughter."

Chapter LXXV - The family revisits the Cave of Treasures. Birth of Abel and Aklia.

1 Then Adam prepared an offering, and he and Eve offered it up for their children, and brought it to the altar they had built at first. 2 And Adam offered up the offering, and asked God to accept his offering. 3 Then God accepted Adam's offering, and sent a light from heaven that shown on the offering. Adam and his son drew near to the offering, but Eve and the daughter did not approach it. 4 Adam and his son were joyful as they came down from on the altar.

Adam and Eve waited until the daughter was eighty days old, then Adam prepared an offering and took it to Eve and to the children. They went to the altar, where Adam offered it up, as he was accustomed, asking the Lord to accept his offering. 5 And the Lord accepted the offering of Adam and Eve. Then Adam, Eve, and the children, drew near together, and came down from the mountain, rejoicing. 6 But they returned not to the cave in which they were born; but came to the Cave of Treasures, in order that the children should go around in it, and be blessed with the tokens brought from the garden. 7 But after they had been blessed with these tokens, they went back to the cave in which they were born.

8 However, before Eve had offered up the offering, Adam had taken her, and had gone with her to the river of water, in which they threw themselves at first; and there they washed themselves. Adam washed his body and Eve hers also clean, after the suffering and distress that had come over them. 9 But Adam and Eve, after washing themselves in the river of water, returned every night to the Cave of Treasures, where they prayed and were blessed; and then went back to their cave, where their children were born. 10 Adam and Eve did this until the children had been weaned. After they were weaned, Adam made an offering for the souls of his children in addition to the three times every week he made an offering for them.

11 When the children were weaned, Eve again conceived, and when her pregnancy came to term, she gave birth to another son and daughter. They named the son Abel and the daughter Aklia. 12 Then at the end of forty days, Adam made an offering for the son, and at the end of eighty days he made another offering for the daughter, and treated them, as he had previously treated Cain and his sister Luluwa. 13 He brought them to the Cave of Treasures, where they received a blessing, and then returned to the cave where they were born. After these children were born, Eve stopped having children.

Notice that the Bible does not give the female descendants of Adam only the males.


3) The Bible is a collection of Books put together from different manuscripts. It is not the work of one many but of many people. Some gave first hand descriptions others gave second hand testimonies and others were spoken to directly.

[bluefete]

These atheists refuse to believe that they are following a religion.

please elaborate

They testify about what they believe. They only difference is that the are afraid to mention God.