The Religion Discussion

[desifemlove]

jus a quick question.

Why do people in Trini say that we can't have specific laws since we're a "country under God"?

is this specified in the constitution? Did the late Sir Ellis Clarke intend this?

Did Jesus say that countries must base laws on his teachings? If so, tell me where in the Gospels, nah?

Also, not everybody in this country is Christian. Should a Muslim or Hindu care what Jesus said?

Is it too hard to comprehend that Trinidad is a secular system, not a theocracy?

[rocknrolla]

Galatians 5

New International Version (NIV)
Freedom in Christ

5 It is for freedom that Christ has set us free. Stand firm, then, and do not let yourselves be burdened again by a yoke of slavery.

2 Mark my words! I, Paul, tell you that if you let yourselves be circumcised, Christ will be of no value to you at all. 3 Again I declare to every man who lets himself be circumcised that he is obligated to obey the whole law. 4 You who are trying to be justified by the law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace. 5 For through the Spirit we eagerly await by faith the righteousness for which we hope. 6 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision has any value. The only thing that counts is faith expressing itself through love.

7 You were running a good race. Who cut in on you to keep you from obeying the truth? 8 That kind of persuasion does not come from the one who calls you. 9 “A little yeast works through the whole batch of dough.” 10 I am confident in the Lord that you will take no other view. The one who is throwing you into confusion, whoever that may be, will have to pay the penalty. 11 Brothers and sisters, if I am still preaching circumcision, why am I still being persecuted? In that case the offense of the cross has been abolished. 12 As for those agitators, I wish they would go the whole way and emasculate themselves!
Life by the Spirit

13 You, my brothers and sisters, were called to be free. But do not use your freedom to indulge the flesh[a]; rather, serve one another humbly in love. 14 For the entire law is fulfilled in keeping this one command: “Love your neighbor as yourself.”[b] 15 If you bite and devour each other, watch out or you will be destroyed by each other.

16 So I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh. 17 For the flesh desires what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the flesh. They are in conflict with each other, so that you are not to do whatever[c] you want. 18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.

19 The acts of the flesh are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; 20 idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions 21 and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.

22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law. 24 Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. 25 Since we live by the Spirit, let us keep in step with the Spirit. 26 Let us not become conceited, provoking and envying each other.

[maj. tom]

[Habit7]

maj.tom you mind pointing out this atheistic people group that one day decided to create God?

[MG Man]

lol must you take it so literally?

[Habit7]

Do you want me to literally reply to your post or interpret it as the best recipe for a peanut butter and jelly sandwich?

Are you aware of the eternal ramifications of if you or I are wrong about our view of the identity of God?

[MG Man]

yup
we be both dead either way....difference is, that scares you

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

Are you aware of the eternal ramifications of if you or I are wrong about our view of the identity of God?

ALOT of people will be wrong, including all the people in history who followed the wrong god

maj.tom you mind pointing out this atheistic people group that one day decided to create God?

does that even make sense?

[Habit7]

yup
we be both dead either way....difference is, that scares you

Well if there is an afterlife, your death will be the least of your problems..."Do not fear those who kill the body but are unable to kill the soul; but rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell." Jesus of Nazareth, Matthew 10:28

Are you aware of the eternal ramifications of if you or I are wrong about our view of the identity of God?

A LOT of people will be wrong, including all the people in history who followed the wrong god

You almost quoted a bible verse: Matthew 7:13-14 “Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who enter through it. “For the gate is small and the way is narrow that leads to life, and there are few who find it.

maj.tom you mind pointing out this atheistic people group that one day decided to create God?

does that even make sense?

If the concept of God came into existence one day, point out the people group that lived prior to "the creation of God"

[i am an idiot]

At some point in life, every human will naturally want to believe that there is someome who is indeed superior to us and will help us.

Wanting to be spiritual is natural.

There is a "creator".

Look at life in all it's forms, it's not realistic in my view to say that these things happened by chance.

[maj. tom]

Is evolution completely out of the picture then for you?

[maj. tom]

Well Habit7, you firmly believe that creation is 6 to 12 thousand years old. So it is no use even mentioning Australopithecus and other such species. And dinosaurs...well hmm. Nowhere in the Bible did it say that Jesus was NOT a raptor.

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

Are you aware of the eternal ramifications of if you or I are wrong about our view of the identity of God?

A LOT of people will be wrong, including all the people in history who followed the wrong god

You almost quoted a bible verse: Matthew 7:13-14 “Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who enter through it. “For the gate is small and the way is narrow that leads to life, and there are few who find it.

why is the gate small and the way narrow and made in such a way that only few find it. What happens if none found it?

maj.tom you mind pointing out this atheistic people group that one day decided to create God?

does that even make sense?

If the concept of God came into existence one day, point out the people group that lived prior to "the creation of God"

depends on which God you are referring to.

throughout history there have been thousands of religions each with their own God, gods, demi-gods etc.

Religion and belief in God may have started with pre-historic man. There is evidence that neanderthals buried their dead with intentional burial marks suggesting belief in an afterlife and deity over 200,000 years ago.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_religion

I feel that is not what you are trying to ask though.

The concept of God varies not only from religion to religion but from each person to person that ever existed. "The Abrahamic conceptions of God include the monotheistic definition of God in Judaism, the trinitarian view of Christians, and the Islamic concept of God. The dharmic religions differ in their view of the divine: views of God in Hinduism vary by region, sect, and caste, ranging from monotheistic to polytheistic to atheistic."

If an atheist creates a concept of a deity to worship to, then they stop being an atheist - so to say atheistic people group that one day decided to create God just does not makes sense.

Perhaps the concept of God evolved out of the need for a sentient being (humans) to find an answer about where they came from and where they go when they die. The religions and religious practices and beliefs that are subsequently created from attempts to answer those questions depend on the culture etc of the people who are developing it.

[i am an idiot]

Is evolution completely out of the picture then for you?

Yes. How about u?

[maj. tom]

Good for you then. It's a miracle.

[Habit7]

cool story maj.tom and duane

I was just calling into question the claims made in maj.tom's meme. And by both of your explanations, neither of you can back it up.

[maj. tom]

Well it was sort of an atheist joke. If you didn't get it what you want me to do for you?

[Habit7]

Well now you say its a joke but if I didnt confront it, 10pgs down somebody would have been arguing using the point raised in the meme.

[i am an idiot]

Good for you then. It's a miracle.

U did not answer the question.
I answered yours didn't I?

So u believe we happened by chance or created?

Miracles are attributed to a higher power. So you would be contrasting yourself.

[bluefete]

At some point in life, every human will naturally want to believe that there is someome who is indeed superior to us and will help us.

Wanting to be spiritual is natural.

There is a "creator".

Look at life in all it's forms, it's not realistic in my view to say that these things happened by chance.

X2. Well said. But "Rationalists" like Duane and others will continue to tell tou that we evolved over time to become what we are and God has nothing to do with it.

But these same people cannot tell you about the origin of life.

[bluefete]

Now Isn't this interesting????

Was the Bible RIGHT about the origins of life? Scientists believe that we may have had our beginnings in CLAY

The Bible, the Koran and even Greek mythology has suggested for thousands of years that life began as earth, dust or clay
New theory is that clay is a breeding ground for chemicals which it 'absorbs like a sponge' and eventually leads to proteins and DNA forming

By Daily Mail Reporter

PUBLISHED: 17:10 GMT, 6 November 2013 | UPDATED: 20:08 GMT, 6 November 2013

All life on Earth may have come from clay according to new scientific research - just as the Bible, Koran and even Greek mythology have been suggesting for thousands of years.

The latest theory is that clay - which is at its most basic, a combination of minerals in the ground - acts as a breeding laboratory for tiny molecules and chemicals which it 'absorbs like a sponge'.


In Abrahamic religions, Adam is said to have been made from of clay that God fashioned into the first man

The process takes billions of years, during which the chemicals react to each other to form proteins, DNA and, eventually, living cells, scientists told the journal Scientific Reports.

Biological Engineers from Cornell University's department for Nanoscale Science in New York state believe clay 'might have been the birthplace of life on Earth'.

It is a theory dating back thousands of years in many cultures, though perhaps not using the same scientific explanation.



In seawater, clay forms a hydrogel - a mass of tiny spaces which soak up other minerals, chemicals and tiny molecules from its surrounding area. Pictured here are the clay cliff formations in Aquinnah, Massachusetts

In religious texts from ancient Egypt to Chinese legends, God moulds clay into the shape of man and then breathes life into him through his nostrils.

Even Genesis talks of man being born from dust and returning to dust when he dies, with scholars translating this from the ancient Hebrew as also meaning clay or the earth itself.

Professor Dan Luo of Cornell said: 'In early geological history clay hydrogel provided a confinement function for biomolecules and biochemical reactions.

In seawater, clay forms a hydrogel - a mass of tiny spaces which soak up other minerals, chemicals and tiny molecules from its surrounding area. Pictured here are the clay cliff formations in Aquinnah, Massachusetts

'Over billions of years, chemicals confined in those spaces could have carried out the complex reactions that formed proteins, DNA and eventually all the machinery that makes a living cell work.'

The conclusions are based on experiments by the researchers using synthetic hydrogels, adding DNA, amino acids and enzymes and simulating the production of proteins.

While it may be one theory on the creation of life on Earth, it may also have modern and moneysaving applications for drug manufacturing.

The report added: 'Why consider clay? It's dirt cheap. Better yet, it turned out unexpectedly
that using clay enhanced protein production.'

HOW THE BIBLE SAYS LIFE BEGAN

Genesis 2:7: 'And the Lord God formed man [of] the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.'

Isaiah 64:8: 'But now, O Lord, you are our Father; we are the clay, and you are our potter; we are all the work of your hand.'


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/ ... z2k6zCIzrZ
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

[i am an idiot]

A second reason i believe that there is a god is another one of our natural human traits.

Our desire too live.

Whoever authored the bible had some deep insight into human nature.

I distinctly remember being shown a verse that says "god has put forever into our hearts".

I know personally i don't want to die. Anyone who says they are not afraid to die, are simply lying to themselves, no one else.

I have no religion, but i believe there is a god, and he authored what we call the bible.

No human could write some of the things i have read in that book. With regards to insight on life, how we are made, and our purpose here.

[MG Man]

you sir, are an idiot

[Bizzare]

you're reasoning is dumb due to the fact that ppl commit suicide

[maj. tom]

nah bai. dat is de devil. devil does do people dat.

[V8 Boys]

I have been looking at some of the topics that ppl on this thread comment on and have been able to stay clear of getting involved...mostly because of the absolute lunacy, heartlessness and insensitivity of many of the comments.

But you see the last 3 comments?

I hope MG Man you were kidding, and the Bizzare one...talk about an inability to reason or argue with proper logic...woi! How could you use an UN-NATURAL selfish act as suicide, which btw as far as stats go is insignificant as compared to other causes of death, to refute a down to earth, and honest truism? NO ONE WANTS TO DIE. Plain and simple....even those who are terminal do not desire to die. It is only human to live, to plan, to wish, to enjoy peace, to admire and plan for the future.

If death was natural, normal and part of the Almighty's plan..tell me...if you were given a time frame/date on which you were to CHOOSE to die...regardless of how far into the future you chose...could you?

No, you wouldn't rationally chose a date to die...because it would mean, if it were in fact possible, that when that date comes...you'd be gone. And that is a fact of life...a normal person with their clear thinking faculties...does not desire to die....ever.

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

^ yes, clear thinking faculties are important

X2. Well said. But "Rationalists" like Duane and others will continue to tell tou that we evolved over time to become what we are and God has nothing to do with it.

how am I a rationalist? I still like to see evidence instead of just using reasoning alone to prove something.

I think it is important to balance reasoning with evidence, logic with fact.

cool story maj.tom and duane

I was just calling into question the claims made in maj.tom's meme. And by both of your explanations, neither of you can back it up.

back up the claims in a meme? not everything is literal you know.

Well now you say its a joke but if I didnt confront it, 10pgs down somebody would have been arguing using the point raised in the meme.

you think a meme needs confronting?

[i am an idiot]

@ V8 boys, you're a really level
headed dude.

Lookin forward to reading more on your story, you haven't updated in a while. Hope things good with u man. Nice seeing you around the fourums man.

[Habit7]

back up the claims in a meme? not everything is literal you know.

Dont you use mems to make claims that you believe are literally true?

you think a meme needs confronting?

Haven't you confronted memes in this thread before, even my memes?

Its seemed like you attempted to take the meme seriously and try to give a history of religion. You still failed to point out a people group who were once atheistic, created a God, and then became theistic. But when maj.tom retreated to the position that it was meant to be a joke, you subsequently acted like if the meme wasnt attempted to be literal.

[MG Man]

I hope MG Man you were kidding.

Kidding about what? I lost track of my ramblings so u hadda point it out to me