The Religion Discussion

[rocknrolla]

The religion of ISLAM is based on knowledge and evidence. Not on the whims and fancies of self-appointed "philosophers".

Still has no proof of god, except a book, that says god exists. Still have not seen one shred of proof from you. You have never posted any and you will never be able to because god is a fairy tale.

because the corruption and misdirection of men have left you without substance.. is no reason to take it out on God. common sense must prevail. if i leave a bunch of legos scattered all over the floor.. how long will it take for those legos to assemble themselves into a house? all on their own without my intervention.

same way we did not just spring up out of the ground on our own accord.

[AdamB]

The religion of ISLAM is based on knowledge and evidence. Not on the whims and fancies of self-appointed "philosophers".

Still has no proof of god, except a book, that says god exists. Still have not seen one shred of proof from you. You have never posted any and you will never be able to because god is a fairy tale.

Maybe....but do you have proof that YOU really exist (Matrix movie)? Proof would negate faith. But then again, some or most would deny and disbelieve even if the proof appeared to them in plain sight.

BTW how was the stew beef / lamb by the In-laws for Eid-Ul-Adha?

[AdamB]

The religion of ISLAM is based on knowledge and evidence. Not on the whims and fancies of self-appointed "philosophers".

boy u still peltin rocks at me and i not even in the thread?

just remember Jesus is the son of Allah, ordained and claimed, to have come from virgin birth by divine impregnation unlike ANY of the other prophets. including muhammad. dont underestimate the 'mad' part of his name.

I was replying to Nismotrinidappa, are you him? If not, if the shoe fits then what the hell...

[RBphoto]

Proof would negate faith. But then again, some or most would deny and disbelieve even if the proof appeared to them in plain sight.

You are totally wrong and copping out. The scientific process requires me to accept an observable repeatable phenomenon. All you have is a delusion and that is not enough to convince me. Your circular argument that proof negates faith only serves to support your current self delusion. You are deluded. I want proof of what you state. You say you want to hold on to your delusion as trying to prove it will make it diminish. Thanks for certifying yourself crazy.

[AdamB]

Proof would negate faith. But then again, some or most would deny and disbelieve even if the proof appeared to them in plain sight.

You are totally wrong and copping out. The scientific process requires me to accept an observable repeatable phenomenon. All you have is a delusion and that is not enough to convince me. Your circular argument that proof negates faith only serves to support your current self delusion. You are deluded. I want proof of what you state. You say you want to hold on to your delusion as trying to prove it will make it diminish. Thanks for certifying yourself crazy.

Unfortunately GOD is not an "observable repeatable phenomenon". Yet you choose to be sympathetic to the delusional philosophy of hinduism?

The real crazy ones are now free to jump in and state their proof / "experiences" of observing GOD...which I think was the intention when this thread was started.

[RBphoto]

Thus far, and many keystrokes later since you first came to this thread, you have not stated why anyone should be sympathetic to the delusional philosophy of Islam. I am an atheist and I don't take Hinduism literally.

[nismotrinidappa]

The religion of ISLAM is based on knowledge and evidence. Not on the whims and fancies of self-appointed "philosophers".

boy u still peltin rocks at me and i not even in the thread?

just remember Jesus is the son of Allah, ordained and claimed, to have come from virgin birth by divine impregnation unlike ANY of the other prophets. including muhammad. dont underestimate the 'mad' part of his name.

I was replying to Nismotrinidappa, are you him? If not, if the shoe fits then what the hell...

i dont understand your answer adamb.. could you explain a little more?

[AdamB]

The religion of ISLAM is based on knowledge and evidence. Not on the whims and fancies of self-appointed "philosophers".

boy u still peltin rocks at me and i not even in the thread?

just remember Jesus is the son of Allah, ordained and claimed, to have come from virgin birth by divine impregnation unlike ANY of the other prophets. including muhammad. dont underestimate the 'mad' part of his name.

I was replying to Nismotrinidappa, are you him? If not, if the shoe fits then what the hell...

i dont understand your answer adamb.. could you explain a little more?

Well now I don't understand what you don't understand because you were not clear on what you did not understand. Understand?

Knowledge and evidence. Evidence...textual evidence, meaning the TRUE revealed book, verses, the Quran. Knowledge...the understanding of the revelation from the valid sources, the chain of transmission, the narrators, their validity.

Islam is unlike every other religion because of the above. Someone say everything is GOD and GOD is everything...many like that and jump on the bandwagon without evaluating the source of the statement. Someone say GOD is a man walking upon the Earth...ditto, the same, bandwagonists everywhere.

Everyone wants to make man into GOD by making GOD into a man.

Ask the question: Whey dey geh dah from?

[i am an idiot]

Have a few questions for the muslims in this thread.

Why abstain from pork?

Someone told me whilst muslims pray they have to face the direction of something that goes by a name that i can't recall at this time i think is kabba or mecca or sumn? Is this true? If so why?

Who wrote the quaran?

Do muslims accept the bible's teachings?

And why do muslims and the way they worship vary, like how some women wear veil, some don't?
Do muslims believe god is love?

[AdamB]

Have a few questions for the muslims in this thread.

Why abstain from pork? Commanded to do so by GOD. Also in the Bible.

Someone told me whilst muslims pray they have to face the direction of something that goes by a name that i can't recall at this time i think is kabba or mecca or sumn? Is this true? If so why?We face in the direction of the Holy Kaaba in Mecca, in unity, NOT PRAY TO!!

Who wrote the Quran? GOD, arabic 'ALLAH', revealed to prophet Muhammad over 1400 yrs ago.

Do muslims accept the bible's teachings? Not the ones that have been changed by man / the church to include the wrong concept of GOD and worship of things that are NOT GOD. Like Jesus and the Holy Spirit. Ask a christian to describe for you what GOD the father is like from the first Biblical times and what are his qualities and why HE is IN NEED of help, a son, etc.

And why do muslims and the way they worship vary, like how some women wear veil, some don't? Generally the way muslims worship do not vary.

Do muslims believe god is love? LOVE is one of the perfect attributes / qualities of GOD. HE is not LOVE alone.

HIS attributes are probably limitless, some we know of and others HE has kept to HIMSELF.

[rocknrolla]

umm you do know that Allah in the Quran refers to the Holy Spirit as part of his team. surah 5 my boy. surah 5 and surah 16 the Holy Spirit has brought the Revelation from the Lord in order to strengthen those who believe, and as a guide..

oh dear.

umm and the HS is the one entity that we are not allowed to disrespect/blaspheme or we will never be forgiven.

i pity your flock adamb

[i am an idiot]

At adam, i never asked if u prayed to the mecca, if u read properly, u would see i was askin about the direction u pray in.

Why do u face the mecca to pray?

And which parts of the bible do muslims not believe.?

Also could u quote where in the bible where we are commanded to abstain from pork. Bible, not quaran.

You said generally the way u worship is not varied, yet i knw muslims who doe drink alcohol, and some who do, some women wearin veil, then some not, some celebrate birthdays, some don't.
Muslims also in some parts don't believe in too much luxury, yet my bossman, would purchase half million dollar cars, drive with a/c pumping, but "deprive" himself by takin off the radio.

If god is one being, he would like things one way, not all how and any how.

I'm an idiot eh, so feel free to bash me.
Thanks.

[rocknrolla]

it is true that the bible forbids the eating of pork/pig in the old days. it was called unclean. after Jesus came it was no longer considered unclean except in the viewpoint of the individual.

romans 14 basically says that one whose faith is strong can eat anything he wants. while one whose faith is weak eat only herbs/plants. but also instructs that neither is to judge the other because the Lord accepts them both.

waiting for why muslims pray the way they pray. it is ok to say u dont know adamb. consider it sometimes.

[bluefete]

Proof would negate faith. But then again, some or most would deny and disbelieve even if the proof appeared to them in plain sight.

You are totally wrong and copping out. The scientific process requires me to accept an observable repeatable phenomenon. All you have is a delusion and that is not enough to convince me. Your circular argument that proof negates faith only serves to support your current self delusion. You are deluded. I want proof of what you state. You say you want to hold on to your delusion as trying to prove it will make it diminish. Thanks for certifying yourself crazy.

Then you are indeed blind to the wonders of God's creations, including yourself.

Each part of your body was created for a specific purpose, including those we do not know. The appendix is a classic example. Many doctors (observers of repeatable phenomenon?) say that the appendix serves no purpose in the human body. However, if that same appendix bursts, it can kill you.

These same doctors would never come out and say "I do not know the true purpose of the appendix" (when unable to verify observable phenomenon). They would quicker say that it is an obsolete left over from our monkey ancestors. Much like the obsolete tailpipe we all supposedly carry as leftovers from our monkey like ancestors.

The Bible states that "I am fearfully and wonderfully made" (Psalm 139:14). We are only now beginning to find out how God stitched us together.

Open your eyes!! The proof of God's existence is all around you.

[bluefete]

The religion of ISLAM is based on knowledge and evidence. Not on the whims and fancies of self-appointed "philosophers".

Still has no proof of god, except a book, that says god exists. Still have not seen one shred of proof from you. You have never posted any and you will never be able to because god is a fairy tale.

Psalm 8:
1 O Lord, our Lord, how excellent is thy name in all the earth! who hast set thy glory above the heavens.

2 Out of the mouth of babes and sucklings hast thou ordained strength because of thine enemies, that thou mightest still the enemy and the avenger.

3 When I consider thy heavens, the work of thy fingers, the moon and the stars, which thou hast ordained;

4 What is man, that thou art mindful of him? and the son of man, that thou visitest him?

5 For thou hast made him a little lower than the angels, and hast crowned him with glory and honour.

6 Thou madest him to have dominion over the works of thy hands; thou hast put all things under his feet:

7 All sheep and oxen, yea, and the beasts of the field;

8 The fowl of the air, and the fish of the sea, and whatsoever passeth through the paths of the seas.

9 O Lord our Lord, how excellent is thy name in all the earth!

[i am an idiot]

[quote="rocknrolla"]it is true that the bible forbids the eating of pork/pig in the old days. it was called unclean. after Jesus came it was no longer considered unclean except in the viewpoint of the individual.

I agree with u here, the only command that stands with regards to food, is the consuming of blood, god in the bible says, it is the life, and by properly bleeding an animal the "life" is "returned" to him.

[rocknrolla]

we have halal meat in the pelau.. LOL

it is a good stew.

i think we can eat anything now tho. what goes into a man doesnt defile him. but what comes out.

then we have the drinking of the blood of Christ.

[i am an idiot]

The drinking of his blood was symbolic of his blood that would be poured out when he died for our sake. It was not literal. The wine was symbolic so was the bread representing his body.

[rocknrolla]

yeah i know it's symbolic. but to use blood as a representation in a ritual of drinking sort of makes it permissible. also its not like you'll be damned for drinking blood but was an instruction for the israelites to shun the practice within their communities. hopefully not that anyone would go find a cup of blood to drink. but it isnt damning nor is it required. so it's just an old outdated ritual. we all get some blood in our meat it cant be 100% drained. and i myself have eaten meat where blood and all went in the pot. blood pudding also.

christians are free from the old laws. first we could eat only plants, then allowed to eat meat without blood, then it came to not matter. eat and be merry. restrictions are lifted after a period of obedience.


genesis 9 God tells Noah everything that moves about can be as food for him but he must not eat the meat with its lifeblood still in it.

before that God had given us every herb bearing seed for meat.

then under Moses he states why he doesnt want us to drink the lifeblood directly.

then Christ came and freed us from the law saying 'do not let anyone judge you for what you eat or drink'.

ur salvation wont be denied as a follower of Christ walking the path as a descendant of Abraham if u have a bit of blood.

oh yeah and Romans 9:8
It is not the children by physical descent who are God's children, but it is the children of the promis who are regarded as Abraham's offspring.

there are many different verses saying this same thing in different ways. but this one is very clear. not by genetic inheritance are u automatically considered a child of God. but by having faith in his promise of eternal life for those who endure the path as he instructed and which instructions came through Jesus Christ.

so dont worry, to be considered a direct descendent of Abraham, or true jew etc does not require u to be of any special divine lineage. your addition to the family tree is made solely by ur choice to take up the path and praise God. those who care not for praising God will be regarded as the canaanites.

[i am an idiot]

You have a good point. But, even though meat cannot be completely drained of it's blood, bleeding it respects the creator and the life he provides. Jesus did not free us from this command. It is the only command with regards to food that has to remain.

Still waitin for adam to reply though.

[rocknrolla]

You have a good point. But, even though meat cannot be completely drained of it's blood, bleeding it respects the creator and the life he provides. Jesus did not free us from this command. It is the only command with regards to food that has to remain.

Still waitin for adam to reply though.

no worries. and all your decision. but yes obey your conscience. if it will not allow u to eat/drink blood then i would not assist you to go against that. but for those who do there is no need to feel guilty.

adamb is going to have a bit of trouble with HS bomb i rest on his lap.

[AdamB]

Rocknrolla,
Post the exact surah AND verse AS WELL AS the source of your explanation.

You said the Holy Spirit is "One Entity", well I thought it was "one part of the THREE GODS IN ONE". If it is one entity then it is not part of the "GODHEAD".

And what is this talk of blasphemy?

[rocknrolla]

Rocknrolla,
Post the exact surah AND verse AS WELL AS the source of your explanation.

You said the Holy Spirit is "One Entity", well I thought it was "one part of the THREE GODS IN ONE". If it is one entity then it is not part of the "GODHEAD".

And what is this talk of blasphemy?

http://www.islamicstudies.info/tafheem. ... 02&nto=106

(16:102) Tell them: "It is the spirit of holiness that has brought it down, by stages,103 from your Lord so that it might bring firmness to those who believe,104 and guidance to the Right Way,105 and give glad tidings of felicity and success to those who submit to Allah.

http://quran.com/16/102/

Say, [O Muhammad], "The Pure Spirit has brought it down from your Lord in truth to make firm those who believe and as guidance and good tidings to the Muslims."

http://www.alim.org/library/quran/ayah/ ... ent-arabic

Say: "Holy inspiration 128 has brought it down from thy Sustainer by stages, setting forth the truth, so that it might give firmness unto those who have attained to faith, and provide guidance and a glad tiding unto all who have surrendered themselves to God."

Say, "The Holy Spirit (Gabriel) has brought it down piecemeal intact from your Rabb to strengthen the faith of the believers, and to give guidance and good news to the Muslims."

Say: The holy Spirit hath revealed it from thy Lord with truth, that it may confirm (the faith of) those who believe, and as guidance and good tidings for those who have surrendered (to Allah).

Say the Holy Spirit has brought the revelation from thy Lord in truth in order to strengthen those who believe and as a guide and Glad Tidings to Muslims.

Qul nazzalahu roohu alqudusi min rabbika bialhaqqi liyuthabbita allatheena amanoo wahudan wabushra lilmuslimeena

what is the Holy Spirit if not a partner/teammate/assistant/conscious force of Allah? that does the work with man on behalf of the Lord? why does Allah not do this work himself.. is the question u asked..

Ask a christian to describe for you what GOD the father is like from the first Biblical times and what are his qualities and why HE is IN NEED of help, a son, etc.

you call it help. but why does that question need to be asked when Allah states that it is already so? Allah has helpers he sends to do his bidding. if u want to know why he has helpers then ask him lol. and you disregard the possibility of God siring a Son. you dispute this. even though it is written in Surah 19 coming from Allah's own mouth. you disregard it for this..

http://quran.com/4/171

O People of the Scripture, do not commit excess in your religion or say about Allah except the truth. The Messiah, Jesus, the son of Mary, was but a messenger of Allah and His word which He directed to Mary and a soul [created at a command] from Him. So believe in Allah and His messengers. And do not say, "Three"; desist - it is better for you. Indeed, Allah is but one God. Exalted is He above having a son. To Him belongs whatever is in the heavens and whatever is on the earth. And sufficient is Allah as Disposer of affairs.

which is spoken as from the mouth of Muhammad correct?

you admitted earlier that Al-Kitab was indeed ordained by Allah as stated in Surah 19. and that it was indeed what was to be the Christian Bible. with all the Christian prophets named in list by Allah in plain view. come right up to Mary and her Virgin Birth by an Angel Allah sent to her to give birth to Jesus. Allah himself recanted these memories. but u ask why does Allah need a son? it is WE that needed the son or we'd never find our way back to eden for many more eons. God give us a shortcut to make it easier for us in mercy. Christ was conceived in Spirit before he was conceived in flesh. and when he died it was his flesh that died but his spirit lived. This is why Allah is greatest of deceivers. because this is not real life, real life is the eternal life in the Spirit. he was alive before he was born and alive after he was dead. and still lives. Such is the power of Allah.

when Abraham was tested for his love and devotion to God and asked to sacrifice his son. but God stopped him at the last minute declaring it was a test. It is this that earned us the mercy of God that he would sire a son and send him here to be sacrificed to create that path for us. that Abraham so loved the Lord he would kill his own son in obedience lifted us to mercy.

i tell you have to be careful when you say God had no son.

Surah 19:35

It is not [befitting] for Allah to take a son; exalted is He! When He decrees an affair, He only says to it, "Be," and it is.

Allah decreed for his Son to be born through Mary who's divine lineage, through the Righteous lives of her descendents made her Worthy of carrying the Son of God by his decree. u can dispute it if you want but..

Then the factions differed [concerning Jesus] from among them, so woe to those who disbelieved - from the scene of a tremendous Day.

this tremendous day is the day of the birth of Christ.

about blaspheming the Holy Spirit:

Matthew 12:31-32

New International Version (NIV)

31 And so I tell you, every kind of sin and slander can be forgiven, but blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven. 32 Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but anyone who speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come.

http://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/Bib ... ly-Spirit/

Matthew 12:32 - And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the [world] to come.

it is a Christian teaching. but it is a teaching of Allah the one God called by many names. The reason we say Trinity should be of no bother to a muslim. God Supreme is the only God. The Holy Spirit, and Jesus are one with God in the same way that a family Unit is One. it is merely symbolic for understanding purposes. so that we can get an idea of the arrangement of archetypes/levels/chain of command. the divine lineage and future children of God who walk the path will also be part of this family. and will also be One in Righteousness in the Spirit of God.

[i am an idiot]

Buh d man din answer my question.

[ruffneck_12]

All this beat up and fight down

just worship THE ONE TRUE GOD

SATAAAAAAAAAN

PRAISE HIS UNHOLY NAEM!!!!!1!!!!11!!!!one!!!!111!!!!1010)!)!0!))!)!0

[marlener]

What was God's original diet plan for man and why did he allow Noah to eat meat are two question to consider before the question of eating pork is discussed.
Ruffneck 12 Satan rewards for loyality. Your reward is sure.

[i am an idiot]

Dabbling with worshipping satan is dangerous, just his post alone is one i would have never made. The repercussions from the devil are serious.

I asked why face the mecca when praying?

Muslims answer.

[marlener]

I'm not a Muslim but I think the reason is one of unity,they face kaaba not Meeca per se,I could be wrong though.

[mamoo_pagal]

Dabbling with worshipping satan is dangerous, just his post alone is one i would have never made. The repercussions from the devil are serious.

I asked why face the mecca when praying?

Muslims answer.

ooh what are these repercussion? I don't understand!

[i am an idiot]

I'm not a Muslim but I think the reason is one of unity,they face kaaba not Meeca per se,I could be wrong though.

That would be in a sense, idolatry. Which would be contrary to their beliefs.