The Religion Discussion

[Habit7]

Recorded factual historical evidence disagrees with you

Source?

Well said?? The message of Jesus was repugnant? They crucified their Messiah, not their GOD??

Tell me AdamB, why would the Jews call Jesus their Messiah yet crucify Him?

well there's no proof of anything much without being there when it all happened. ill have to re-source the book. i believe it was one of the apocryphal books which spoke of the life of jesus as a child. the large gap in the New Testament which just jumps from jesus as a baby to jesus as an adult with very little mention of his adolescent years.

The Apocrypha was written during the intertestamental period (between the Old and New Testament). It never mentioned anything about Jesus. I think you mean the gnostic gospels which came 200-300 years after the life of Christ.

Both are consider not to be inspired.

[rocknrolla]

Recorded factual historical evidence disagrees with you

Source?

Well said?? The message of Jesus was repugnant? They crucified their Messiah, not their GOD??

Tell me AdamB, why would the Jews call Jesus their Messiah yet crucify Him?

well there's no proof of anything much without being there when it all happened. ill have to re-source the book. i believe it was one of the apocryphal books which spoke of the life of jesus as a child. the large gap in the New Testament which just jumps from jesus as a baby to jesus as an adult with very little mention of his adolescent years.

The Apocrypha was written during the intertestamental period (between the Old and New Testament). It never mentioned anything about Jesus. I think you mean the gnostic gospels which came 200-300 years after the life of Christ.

Both are consider not to be inspired.

actually, the historical account is that the church purposely left out the stories of jesus as a child because he did things that ppl would find questionable. as a child he did excercise his powers against others and only as he grew older did he become more forgiving.

they wanted to keep these hidden so that it would not reflect badly on those who dont understand the reason for jesus' life and the things he did.

but, hindus did not hide it. in the story of the child-God in hindu texts they told well of the stories he did as a child. as u would expect any child to be, playful and naughty etc. hindu child-God used to peep at the women bathing.. lol

stuff like that the catholic church didnt know how to convey without having ppl judge the messiah and look down on him for not being perfect in their eyes.

[Habit7]

Dude I really dont want to debate you. I cant reach the level of your chakras, through your mantras, that you attain to arrive at your little nirvana. I am just distinguishing within your callaloo, the pig tail from the hot pepper.

[rocknrolla]

only reason u cant is because u set that limit in urself.

but really, what u just said, u think it's a jab at me? think about it. if the chakras are the path to God through nirvana, then u just insulted and belittled the path to God.

good luck on ur journeys.

[AdamB]

only reason u cant is because u set that limit in urself.

but really, what u just said, u think it's a jab at me? think about it. if the chakras are the path to God through nirvana, then u just insulted and belittled the path to God.

good luck on ur journeys.

Madmen I tell you!! So what distinguishes you from the hindus and mystic "muslim" sufis? Do you believe in the hindu concept that through your nirvana you will become one (re-unite) with GOD?

[rocknrolla]

only reason u cant is because u set that limit in urself.

but really, what u just said, u think it's a jab at me? think about it. if the chakras are the path to God through nirvana, then u just insulted and belittled the path to God.

good luck on ur journeys.

Madmen I tell you!! So what distinguishes you from the hindus and mystic "muslim" sufis? Do you believe in the hindu concept that through your nirvana you will become one (re-unite) with GOD?

my nirvana? i dont own it. it's everyone's. that's why jesus' life displayed human qualities. to show that even tho we are made in sin we can still work our way back to God. so like i said. it isnt mine, it's yours too. up to u if u claim it or ignore/reject it.

"is it not written in the law that i said to you "ye are Gods"?

[rocknrolla]

just got to read it over.. of course there's alot more on the hidden life of jesus as he grew up. enough to fill a hardcover and very old black book just as thick as the bible or thicker. ive got to say.. i like this quote from the gnosis link i posted a great deal. of course because of it's truth.

And the young child was wroth and said unto him: It sufficeth thee (or them) to seek and not to find,

i remember saying something quite similar before i left u all for a while to rabble on the scripture. u see, ppl like to talk bout jesus and the bible, they like to pretend to be studying and diligent, they like to advocate the scripture and the message therein, theyll defend jesus and even God the invisible...

but they never really practice what they study, they are more concerned with being revered for their knowledge from study than from practice with the Lord, they like to tell us to seek the lord, but the moment anyone finds him they cast him off as crazy,

and of course, when jesus returns they will not recognize him. but they think they will because of how much they have studied. they have not found yet proport themselves to have. cheating noone and lying to noone.. but themselves.

[MG Man]

I'ma gonna leave some inspiration riiiiiiiiiight here for you guys, mkay

[AdamB]

Thanks MGMan!! We should all take time out to marvel at the beauty of Allah's Creation.

"And which of the favours of your Lord will you then deny?"

[Habit7]

A certain few of you want to take literal meanings from some verses of the Quran to insinuate that it teaches terrorism.

Well let me show you many verses from the book that you hypocritically preach from…

Look at the blatant instructions to kill, murder and torture people… according to your book!

Of course, you will have some kinda different meaning for these verses, but it blatantly portrays violence, killing and death to others.

My question is then this:

If you can derive alternate meanings for these verses and you are not using them literally,
then how is it that you are conveniently using literal meanings of Quranic verses to suit your blaspheme of Islam.

Lets now take a look at many of these violent verses of your Bible…
Quoted "word for word" from your own Christian Site:


Joshua 8:24-27
New International Version (NIV)

24. “When Israel had finished killing all the men of Ai in the fields and in the wilderness where they had chased them, and when every one of them had been put to the sword, all the Israelites returned to Ai and killed those who were in it.”

25. “Twelve thousand men and women fell that day—all the people of Ai.”

26. “For Joshua did not draw back the hand that held out his javelin until he had destroyed all who lived in Ai.”

27. “But Israel did carry off for themselves the livestock and plunder of this city, as the Lord had instructed Joshua.”


Joshua 10:28-43
New International Version (NIV)

28. “That day Joshua took Makkedah. He put the city and its king to the sword and totally destroyed everyone in it. He left no survivors. And he did to the king of Makkedah as he had done to the king of Jericho.”

29. “Then Joshua and all Israel with him moved on from Makkedah to Libnah and attacked it.”

30. “The Lord also gave that city and its king into Israel’s hand. The city and everyone in it Joshua put to the sword. He left no survivors there. And he did to its king as he had done to the king of Jericho.”

31. “Then Joshua and all Israel with him moved on from Libnah to Lachish; he took up positions against it and attacked it.”

32. “The Lord gave Lachish into Israel’s hands, and Joshua took it on the second day. The city and everyone in it he put to the sword, just as he had done to Libnah.”

33. “Meanwhile, Horam king of Gezer had come up to help Lachish, but Joshua defeated him and his army—until no survivors were left.”

34. “Then Joshua and all Israel with him moved on from Lachish to Eglon; they took up positions against it and attacked it.”

35. “They captured it that same day and put it to the sword and totally destroyed everyone in it, just as they had done to Lachish.”

36. “Then Joshua and all Israel with him went up from Eglon to Hebron and attacked it.”

37. “They took the city and put it to the sword, together with its king, its villages and everyone in it. They left no survivors. Just as at Eglon, they totally destroyed it and everyone in it.”

38. “Then Joshua and all Israel with him turned around and attacked Debir.”

39. “They took the city, its king and its villages, and put them to the sword. Everyone in it they totally destroyed. They left no survivors. They did to Debir and its king as they had done to Libnah and its king and to Hebron.”

40. “So Joshua subdued the whole region, including the hill country, the Negev, the western foothills and the mountain slopes, together with all their kings. He left no survivors. He totally destroyed all who breathed, just as the Lord, the God of Israel, had commanded.”

41. “Joshua subdued them from Kadesh Barnea to Gaza and from the whole region of Goshen to Gibeon.”

42. “All these kings and their lands Joshua conquered in one campaign, because the Lord, the God of Israel, fought for Israel.”

43. “Then Joshua returned with all Israel to the camp at Gilgal.”


Numbers 31:14-18
New International Version (NIV)

14. “Moses was angry with the officers of the army—the commanders of thousands and commanders of hundreds—who returned from the battle.”

15. “Have you allowed all the women to live?” he asked them.”

16. “They were the ones who followed Balaam’s advice and enticed the Israelites to be unfaithful to the Lord in the Peor incident, so that a plague struck the Lord’s people.”

17. “Now kill all the boys. And kill every woman who has slept with a man, 18 but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man.”


Deuteronomy 7:1-2
New International Version (NIV)

1. “When the Lord your God brings you into the land you are entering to possess and drives out before you many nations—the Hittites, Girgashites, Amorites, Canaanites, Perizzites, Hivites and Jebusites, seven nations larger and stronger than you—“

2. “and when the Lord your God has delivered them over to you and you have defeated them, then you must destroy them totally. Make no treaty with them, and show them no mercy.”


Deuteronomy 20:10-17
King James Version (KJV)

10. “When you approach a city to fight against it, you shall offer it terms of peace.”

11. “If it agrees to make peace with you and opens to you, then all the people who are found in it shall become your forced labor and shall serve you.”

12. “However, if it does not make peace with you, but makes war against you, then you shall besiege it.”

13. “When the LORD your God gives it into your hand, you shall strike all the men in it with the edge of the sword.”

14. “Only the women and the children and the animals and all that is in the city, all its spoil, you shall take as booty for yourself; and you shall use the spoil of your enemies which the LORD your God has given you.”

15 Thus shalt thou do unto all the cities which are very far off from thee, which are not of the cities of these nations.

16. “Only in the cities of these peoples that the LORD your God is giving you as an inheritance, you shall not leave alive anything that breathes”

17. “But thou shalt utterly destroy them; namely, the Hittites, and the Amorites, the Canaanites, and the Perizzites, the Hivites, and the Jebusites; as the Lord thy God hath commanded thee:”


Here..... This "big talker" is trying to use a literal meaning of this statement…

Bukhari (11:626) - [Muhammad said:] "I decided to order a man to lead the prayer and then take a flame to burn all those, who had not left their houses for the prayer, burning them alive inside their homes."

The statement just shows how important prayer is but is never and has never been done to anybody for not attending prayer.

But look at these two statements from the Bible.. I wonder if this Muslim Hating "Power Seller" will also take the literal meaning of this statement:


Exodus 31:12-14
New International Version (NIV)

12. “Then the Lord said to Moses, “

13. “Say to the Israelites, ‘You must observe my Sabbaths. This will be a sign between me and you for the generations to come, so you may know that I am the Lord, who makes you holy.”

14. “Observe the Sabbath, because it is holy to you. Anyone who desecrates it is to be put to death; those who do any work on that day must be cut off from their people.”

Deuteronomy 17:2-5
New International Version (NIV)

2. “If a man or woman living among you in one of the towns the Lord gives you is found doing evil in the eyes of the Lord your God in violation of his covenant,”

3. “and contrary to my command has worshiped other gods, bowing down to them or to the sun or the moon or the stars in the sky,”

4. “and this has been brought to your attention, then you must investigate it thoroughly. If it is true and it has been proved that this detestable thing has been done in Israel,”

5. “take the man or woman who has done this evil deed to your city gate and stone that person to death.”

...................................
Here are some more sacred teachings of the Bible…

Luke 19:26-27
New International Version (NIV)

26. “He replied, ‘I tell you that to everyone who has, more will be given, but as for the one who has nothing, even what they have will be taken away.”

27. “But those enemies of mine who did not want me to be king over them—bring them here and kill them in front of me.”


Matthew 10:34-35
English Standard Version (ESV)

34. “Do not think that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I have not come to bring peace, but a sword.”

35. “For I have come to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law.”


Like I said before... if you (the Christians) don't take these verses literally and you have alternate meanings for them (of course),
then why are you taking literal meanings from the Quran to feed your desire to spread blaspheme?

Is that what Christianity teaches you to do?

Finally…

A word of advice to ABA:

Using your company's name and your "Power Seller" status to discriminate against others (for example Muslims)… blatantly spread lies and blaspheme about Islam… categorize all Muslims as potential Terrorists and endorse hatred to an entire people will definitely be very bad for business.

.........................................................................
A True Muslim is never and can never be a Terrorist!
..........................................................................

New_SPECIES the conquest of Canaan has been hammered out several times in the Religion thread, yet when called to account for the violent commands for Muslims today, you appeal to it. The conquest of Canaan is two things, the conquest of the Israelite land now occupied by Canaanites and God judgement on Canaan for their evil acts. The theocratic nation of Israel was at that time and at that place, their commands for war left no binding requirement for a Jew or Christian today. Secondly, when Israel became as wicked as Canaan was, God used pagan nations to execute judgement on Israel like Assyria and Babylon.

2 Kings 18:11-12
New American Standard Bible (NASB)
Then the king of Assyria carried Israel away into exile to Assyria, and put them in Halah and on the Habor, the river of Gozan, and in the cities of the Medes, because they did not obey the voice of the Lord their God, but transgressed His covenant, even all that Moses the servant of the Lord commanded; they would neither listen nor do it.

Jeremiah 25:7-11
New American Standard Bible (NASB)
Yet you have not listened to Me,” declares the Lord, “in order that you might provoke Me to anger with the work of your hands to your own harm. “Therefore thus says the Lord of hosts, ‘Because you have not obeyed My words, behold, I will send and take all the families of the north,’ declares the Lord, ‘and I will send to Nebuchadnezzar king of Babylon, My servant, and will bring them against this land and against its inhabitants and against all these nations round about; and I will utterly destroy them and make them a horror and a hissing, and an everlasting desolation. Moreover, I will take from them the voice of joy and the voice of gladness, the voice of the bridegroom and the voice of the bride, the sound of the millstones and the light of the lamp. This whole land will be a desolation and a horror, and these nations will serve the king of Babylon seventy years.

Ezekiel 21

But there is no longer a theocratic nation of Israel, and no commands for any nation to exact judgement on anybody. We have no fear than one day, a bunch of Presbyterians will run into a crowd and scream “Jesus is Lord” and exploded their suicide vest laced with ball bearings.

But Christians obey Jesus when He says:

Matthew 5:38-39
New American Standard Bible (NASB)
“You have heard that it was said, ‘An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth.’ But I say to you, do not resist an evil person; but whoever slaps you on your right cheek, turn the other to him also.

Matthew 5:43-45
New American Standard Bible (NASB)
“You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ But I say to you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, so that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven; for He causes His sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous.

and concerning murder...
Matthew 5:21-22
New American Standard Bible (NASB)
“You have heard that the ancients were told, ‘You shall not commit murder’ and ‘Whoever commits murder shall be liable to the court.’ But I say to you that everyone who is angry with his brother shall be guilty before the court; and whoever says to his brother, ‘You good-for-nothing,’ shall be guilty before the supreme court; and whoever says, ‘You fool,’ shall be guilty enough to go into the fiery hell.


You quoted Luke 19:26-27 which is part of a parable, and not a historical recount of an event. Matthew 10:34-35 tells you what the "sword" is, in verse 35 the sword is the division within a family because of the fidelity to Jesus, it is not a call for arms. Even in their literal meaning those verses you quote doesn’t advocate violence so your point is mute.

I understand that you believe your belief in Islam is sincere and those who commit these acts are perverting the name of your peaceful religion. But we have a lot more to go by than your own testimony of Islam. We have the history of Muhammad and his several conquests in the name of Islam and the slaughter of disbelievers, we have the history of the caliphs and their conquests. We have the advocacy of the Quran to commit acts of violence against non-believers until they submit. We know the teaching of Islam about the dar al-Islam (House of Submission) which are nations which have already submitted to Islam, and the dar al-harb (House of War) which are nations that are yet to submit. We have the confessions of terrorist such as Michael Adebolajo who recently beheaded Lee Rigby on a London street who quoted from the Quran why he did his actions and quoted from the Quran why those who refuse to follow him are not faithful Muslims.

I think we in West (both Muslim and non-Muslim) have a legitimate concern about the threat of Islam if we continue to refuse to submit. It is not that we hate Islam or Muslims, is that we are concerned about the threat this poses for our well-being. That concern is not unfounded in T&T since we were the first Western nation to experience militant Islam in 1990 with the help of external Islamic forces. Thus your inability to rationalise those verses from the Quran or your attempt at the No True Scotsman fallacy of "A True Muslim is never and can never be a Terrorist!" doesn't allay our fears.

[metalgear2095]

Y'all Muslims not ready for Habit at all. He is always clea

[MG Man]

epic kicks in here
ranting christians
ranting muslims
and rocknrolla in the middle babbling like a lunatic on acid

[RASC]

Howard Bloom's take on recent Radical Islamic issues...

[moti]

epic kicks in here
ranting christians
ranting muslims
and rocknrolla in the middle babbling like a lunatic on acid

THIS!

[RASC]

Have any local Muslim clerics come out in condemnation of the Kenyan attacks? One of our own were brutally murdered
Another forum member has mentioned that in their mosques people were happy for these attacks to take place? His comments have since been deleted.

[New_SPECIES]

Y'all Muslims not ready for Habit at all. He is always clear

Clear with what?

Diverts from the issues... makes excuses.... blind to endless contradictory evidence... covers up discrepancies... twisting his own scriptures when faced with his own accusations.... block wall against what anyone else has to say..... decides to take literal meanings of scriptures when it is convenient to him....

Only the people with his same mission in mind will agree with him.

[marlener]

And a sarcastic atheist reading both Christian and Muslim scriptures.

[Rainman]

ny local Muslim clerics come out in condemnation of the Kenyan attacks? One of our own were brutally murdered
Another forum member has mentioned that in their mosques people were happy for these attacks to take place? His comments have since been deleted.

That's the problem RASC, the so called "peaceful" ones never bat an eye when the radicals murder, torture and terrorize hundreds of innocent people. In the truest sense of the cliched term "the only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing". This is a muslim problem that the muslim world needs to fix.


Both Christianity and Judaism has through periods of revolution and change and have moved away from medieval practices; these aren't the middle ages!! These cowardly towel heads run around killing women and children in the name of so called "religiously legitimized violence" and when it happens the "non-violents" say "oh well, I'm not violent but i can certainly understand why that group of nice men slaughtered innocent women and children in a mall" They spew garbage and then take the ostrich approach.

[Cid]

ny local Muslim clerics come out in condemnation of the Kenyan attacks? One of our own were brutally murdered
Another forum member has mentioned that in their mosques people were happy for these attacks to take place? His comments have since been deleted.

That's the problem RASC, the so called "peaceful" ones never bat an eye when the radicals murder, torture and terrorize hundreds of innocent people. In the truest sense of the cliched term "the only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing". This is a muslim problem that the muslim world needs to fix.


Both Christianity and Judaism has through periods of revolution and change and have moved away from medieval practices; these aren't the middle ages!! These cowardly towel heads run around killing women and children in the name of so called "religiously legitimized violence" and when it happens the "non-violents" say "oh well, I'm not violent but i can certainly understand why that group of nice men slaughtered innocent women and children in a mall" They spew garbage and then take the ostrich approach.

Very good point....religion should evolve.... The core teaching stay intact but the approach should be different and reflect the times we live in.......Violence might have worked in the past but it has no place in a civilized society... How can one commit these horrific crimes in the name of any god... They work for the devil... No god.....

[Habit7]

^^^Only thing I would disagree with 'is that Christianity needed to go through a revolution.'

From inception, Christianity never endorsed violence for the propagation of its message nor does it command its followers to commit any violent acts. The errant actions of those who commit violence in the name of Christianity, are done without its blessings.

Your vegan friend eating KFC doesn't compromise all vegetarians, your friend is just not following the rules of his worldview.

[Cid]

^^^Only thing I would disagree with 'is that Christianity needed to go through a revolution.'

From inception, Christianity never endorsed violence for the propagation of its message nor does it command its followers to commit any violent acts. The errant actions of those who commit violence in the name of Christianity, are done without its blessings.

Your vegan friend eating KFC doesn't compromise all vegetarians, your friend is just not following the rules of his worldview.

Wow well said, and a very good point...

Can the same be said about muslums?
What separates the terrorists from the others?
Does one group encourage violence and the others just tolerate or ignore it?

What is the general point of view of a devoted muslim?

[hong kong phooey]

wow this must be the most discussion on some story books

[Habit7]

^^^Only thing I would disagree with 'is that Christianity needed to go through a revolution.'

From inception, Christianity never endorsed violence for the propagation of its message nor does it command its followers to commit any violent acts. The errant actions of those who commit violence in the name of Christianity, are done without its blessings.

Your vegan friend eating KFC doesn't compromise all vegetarians, your friend is just not following the rules of his worldview.

Wow well said, and a very good point...

Can the same be said about muslums?
What separates the terrorists from the others?
Does one group encourage violence and the others just tolerate or ignore it?

What is the general point of view of a devoted muslim?

Well you need to answer those questions yourself. We have been examining the teachings of the Quran to see if those questions can be answered and to my understanding they clearly have.

[Cid]

^^^Only thing I would disagree with 'is that Christianity needed to go through a revolution.'

From inception, Christianity never endorsed violence for the propagation of its message nor does it command its followers to commit any violent acts. The errant actions of those who commit violence in the name of Christianity, are done without its blessings.

Your vegan friend eating KFC doesn't compromise all vegetarians, your friend is just not following the rules of his worldview.

Wow well said, and a very good point...

Can the same be said about muslums?
What separates the terrorists from the others?
Does one group encourage violence and the others just tolerate or ignore it?

What is the general point of view of a devoted muslim?

Well you need to answer those questions yourself. We have been examining the teachings of the Quran to see if those questions can be answered and to my understanding they clearly have.

Acknowledged

[bluefete]

If there are so many religions with so many Gods, how come all humans have the same basic features?

Is it that these Gods got together and agreed on a blueprint?

Or is there really only one true God with the blueprint?

Is Satan a creator or destroyer?

Do truly intelligent people really believe that the building blocks of life came hurtling through the atmosphere on an asteroid/comet from outer space? If so, then aliens must really exist!

[New_SPECIES]

New_SPECIES the conquest of Canaan has been hammered out several times in the Religion thread, yet when called to account for the violent commands for Muslims today, you appeal to it.

There you go again... Just as expected!

.... “this was already dealt with”..... “that was refuted”..... “we move on from that”.....

All your common past sayings to stray from the truth and existing issues...

Who the hell “hammered out” anything from anywhere?...... You?.... Your fellow tuners?


Any issue I raise with you about your quotes or your own book... You reply with these statements.

I didn’t know that you were held in such high esteem in society where you can pass final judgment on any matter just because of your one-sided arguments, ignorance and convenient lack of understanding!

But if you raise refuted issues with me... I dare not say that!

Because You will just say, (like you did in the past), I diverting from the issue!

..................

What does: “called to account for the violent commands of Muslims today” mean?

Was I called to account for the actions of these people?

Your accusations of Quran teaching and promoting Terrorism, are ever further from the truth, especially when the same doesn’t apply to the Bible and the barbaric Christian History...

You are on the same page with all the other Christian fanatics that exists on the internet and in the Americas today.

You use the actions of these war riddin countries to convince people that the Quran made them do what they did.

Yet all the Christian Maniacs of the past are just brushed under the carpet in your arguments.

Although all these people in the past, also claimed that the Bible instructed them to kill, torture and murder many innocent.


You always brush off these issues and provide endless fancy words in your discussion with the intention to confuse and manipulate people minds away from the facts.

In your desperate attempt to stop the uncontrollable spread of Islam you and your fellow international comrades try to play politics with religion.

You make the people think that there is no other option but Christianity so that is why they have to choose it.

Since according to you... Islam teaches terrorism, Hinduism is idol worship, and the rest are a minority...

When issues are raised against what you preach... you give some kinda BS explanation for it and then proclaim “it has now been refuted!”

But when someone defends an issue that you might raise on their religion... you deny everything... conveniently understand nothing.... then re-ask the question as though you heard nothing!

You are yet to account for over 100 contradictions in the Bible with regard to the reference of exact same events,

And you are yet to show me where the Quran contradicts itself in any way in a similar fashion.

But yet your arguments are backed by this collection of re-written editions and various versions of the “Bible”.

No matter how much the re-writers tried to cover these violent actions that took place, it still appeared and is clearly seen today.

And all these violent killings and massacres were done by people in Christian history who you follow and abide by.

BUT you dare not take these scriptures literally!
No.... of course not!

You have endless text to “EXPLAIN” what was meant by these horrific scriptures and the actions that followed.

Yet you come here with your fellow comrades and bash Islam in almost every thread that you see fit.

You quoted Luke 19:26-27 which is part of a parable, and not a historical recount of an event.
...... Even in their literal meaning those verses you quote don’t advocate violence so your point is mute.

Lets look as this verse again:

Luke 19:26-27
New International Version (NIV)

26. “He replied, ‘I tell you that to everyone who has, more will be given, but as for the one who has nothing, even what they have will be taken away.”

27. “But those enemies of mine who did not want me to be king over them — bring them here and kill them in front of me.”

Further>>>>>>>>>

28. After Jesus had said this, he went on ahead, going up to Jerusalem.


What you said..... “even if this verse is taken literally, it does not advocate violence”?

Your books said that Jesus instructed others to bring the people that basically didn’t agree with his leadership and KILL THEM in front of him!

That does not implicate violence or dictatorship?

You also defended this verse:

Matthew 10:34
English Standard Version (ESV)

34. “Do not think that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I have not come to bring peace, but a sword.”

...... Even in their literal meaning those verses you quote don’t advocate violence so your point is mute.

BUT literally.... a sword is a sword!

So your statement (like all the others that you ‘babbled’) makes no sense!

But we have a lot more to go by than your own testimony of Islam. We have the history of Muhammad and his several conquests in the name of Islam and the slaughter of disbelievers, we have the history of the caliphs and their conquests.

You mean the same history that exists in Christianity... the killings, the murders, the slaughters of innocent people?

My point again is your Blatant One-Sidedness...

You have explanations and reasoning for every violent instruction and action that has been recorded in the Bible.

But when it comes to the Quran...

You take One Line.... Interpret it Literally.... Ignore the Specific Scenario....

Then come to your own conclusion that it was an Instruction to follow in every aspect of life for eternity!

You continuously mention “western muslims”, basically saying that we not conforming to the true Islam of the East, in your attempts to confirm that all the Muslims of the East follow and encourage terrorism.

But you conveniently leave out the number of Muslims that are against these acts and the number of Muslim leaders of the east who were even allies with the US to stop terrorism.

You seem to highlight only these radicals who claim that they are Muslims and make your general statements... But what more can I expect from a Christian Fanatic like yourself?

You read what you want to read and believe what only the blaspheming Christian sites tell you to believe!

It’s all in your desperate attempts to persuade people to join your religion, convincing them that “it’s the best option”.


You are still, yet to give your “powdered explanation”, directly toward the other verses that I quoted!

Such as:
• Joshua 8:24-27 - New International Version (NIV)
• Joshua 10:28-43 - New International Version (NIV)
• Numbers 31:14-18 - New International Version (NIV)
• Deuteronomy 7:1-2 - New International Version (NIV)
• Deuteronomy 20:10-17 - King James Version (KJV)
• Exodus 31:12-14 - New International Version (NIV)
• Deuteronomy 17:2-5 - New International Version (NIV)

You pulled the veil over your eyes and decided to quote other parts of your book as a defense....


My point of all this...

All the verses you quote from the Quran as being “violent” was interpreted Literally and not for the meaning or SPECIFIC situation that it was intended.

So I showed you... that if I took verses from your book in an EQUALLY Literal sense.... the meaning will be of violence, torture, killings and massacre in nature.

You can also look through the Quran and confirm for yourself that other verses will nullify any literal meanings of the verses that you attach violence to.

In the same way and method that you are defending the Bible.

But of course you will not do that!

Especially since the only parts of the Quran that you actually know about are those quoted by Christian Blaspheming sites on the internet.

You and your fellow men have been pulling one-line, one-line from an entire book and making a Firm Judgment for the entire thing...

BUT no one can dare do that with the “Bible Collection”...

Of course NOT.... you have a patch and plaster for everything!

Then you will make you final judgment, using your "esteem religious knowledge", and say “I declare!... it has been refuted!”


You are Never-Ending with your claims that the mission of Muslims is to force others into Islam...

Although the Quran CLEARLY STATES:

Quran, 2:256
"Let there be no compulsion in religion: Truth stands out clear from error: whoever rejects evil and believes in Allah hath grasped the most trustworthy handhold, that never breaks. And Allah heareth and knoweth all things."

Quran, 25:68-69
"Those who invoke not, with God, any other god, nor slay such life as God has made sacred except for just cause, nor commit fornication; - and any that does this (not only) meets punishment. (But) the Penalty on the Day Of Judgement will be doubled To him, and he will dwell Therein in ignominy."

Quran, 8:61
"But if the enemy incline towards peace, do thou (also) incline towards peace, and trust in God: for He is One that heareth and knoweth (all things)."

Quran, 5:28
"If thou dost stretch thy hand against me, to slay me, it is not for me to stretch my hand against thee to slay thee: for I do fear God, the cherisher of the worlds."

Quran, 60:8
"God does not forbid you from showing kindness and dealing justly with those who have not fought you about religion and have not driven you out of your homes. God loves just dealers."

Quran, 15:2-3
"Again and again will those who disbelieve, wish that they had bowed (to God's will) in Islam. Leave them alone, to enjoy (the good things of this life) and to please themselves: let (false) hope amuse them: soon will knowledge (undeceive them)."

Quran, 18:29
"Say, 'The truth is from your Lord': Let him who will believe, and let him who will reject (it):...."

Quran, 10:99
"If it had been thy Lord's will, they would all have believed,- all who are on earth! wilt thou then COMPEL mankind, against their will, to believe!"

Quran, 109:1-6
"Say : O ye that reject Faith! I worship not that which ye worship, Nor will ye worship that which I worship. And I will not worship that which ye have been wont to worship, Nor will ye worship that which I worship. To you be your Way, and to me mine."

In addition to the above and many other verses that are against killings or forcing others into Islam...

We can go to the basics and look at the Greeting that a Muslim gives on meeting someone:

"As'salamu Alaikum Wa Rahmatu Allah Wa Barakatuh"

"May GOD's peace, mercy and blessings be upon you"

___________________________________

Feel free to put up your usual block wall against what I have said...
Feel free to continue to chastise, ridicule and insult out of convenient ignorance...
Carry On as Usual...
____________________________________________

[Cid]

ny local Muslim clerics come out in condemnation of the Kenyan attacks? One of our own were brutally murdered
Another forum member has mentioned that in their mosques people were happy for these attacks to take place? His comments have since been deleted.

That's the problem RASC, the so called "peaceful" ones never bat an eye when the radicals murder, torture and terrorize hundreds of innocent people. In the truest sense of the cliched term "the only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing". This is a muslim problem that the muslim world needs to fix.


Both Christianity and Judaism has through periods of revolution and change and have moved away from medieval practices; these aren't the middle ages!! These cowardly towel heads run around killing women and children in the name of so called "religiously legitimized violence" and when it happens the "non-violents" say "oh well, I'm not violent but i can certainly understand why that group of nice men slaughtered innocent women and children in a mall" They spew garbage and then take the ostrich approach.

As Rainman rightfully said... These are not medieval times..... Religion needs to evolve... The past is the past and cannot be changed...
Why is it that the word "terrorist" is always shadowed by a dark Islamic influence.
How is it that the entire following of this literature is split into two groups... The violent merciless extremists and on the other end the peaceful....... I mean look at the reports of the mall shooting, one muslim guy was trying desperately to teach these strangers this muslim prayer to save their life....

How could one book confuse so many people...???

What gives

[Chimera]

How could one book confuse so many people...???

What gives

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Ch ... ominations

As there are reported to be approximately 41,000 Christian denominations,[2] many of which cannot be verified to be significant, only those denominations with Wikipedia articles will be listed in order to ensure that all entries on this list are notable and verifiable.

[Habit7]

Luke 19:26-27
New International Version (NIV)
26. “He replied, ‘I tell you that to everyone who has, more will be given, but as for the one who has nothing, even what they have will be taken away.”
27. “But those enemies of mine who did not want me to be king over them — bring them here and kill them in front of me.”

Further>>>>>>>>>

28. After Jesus had said this, he went on ahead, going up to Jerusalem.

What you said..... “even if this verse is taken literally, it does not advocate violence”?
Your books said that Jesus instructed others to bring the people that basically didn’t agree with his leadership and KILL THEM in front of him!
That does not implicate violence or dictatorship?

Luke 19:11-27,28
New American Standard Bible (NASB)

While they were listening to these things, Jesus went on to tell a parable, because He was near Jerusalem, and they supposed that the kingdom of God was going to appear immediately. So He said, “A nobleman went to a distant country to receive a kingdom for himself, and then return. And he called ten of his slaves, and gave them ten minas and said to them, ‘Do business with this until I come back.’ But his citizens hated him and sent a delegation after him, saying, ‘We do not want this man to reign over us.’ When he returned, after receiving the kingdom, he ordered that these slaves, to whom he had given the money, be called to him so that he might know what business they had done. The first appeared, saying, ‘Master, your mina has made ten minas more.’ And he said to him, ‘Well done, good slave, because you have been faithful in a very little thing, you are to be in authority over ten cities.’ The second came, saying, ‘Your mina, master, has made five minas.’ And he said to him also, ‘And you are to be over five cities.’ Another came, saying, ‘Master, here is your mina, which I kept put away in a handkerchief; for I was afraid of you, because you are an exacting man; you take up what you did not lay down and reap what you did not sow.’ He *said to him, ‘By your own words I will judge you, you worthless slave. Did you know that I am an exacting man, taking up what I did not lay down and reaping what I did not sow? Then why did you not put my money in the bank, and having come, I would have collected it with interest?’ Then he said to the bystanders, ‘Take the mina away from him and give it to the one who has the ten minas.’ And they said to him, ‘Master, he has ten minas already.’ I tell you that to everyone who has, more shall be given, but from the one who does not have, even what he does have shall be taken away. But these enemies of mine, who did not want me to reign over them, bring them here and slay them in my presence.”

After He had said these things, He was going on ahead, going up to Jerusalem.

As I said before:

You quoted Luke 19:26-27 which is part of a parable, and not a historical recount of an event.
...... Even in their literal meaning those verses you quote don’t advocate violence so your point is moot.

Matthew 10:34
English Standard Version (ESV)
34. “Do not think that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I have not come to bring peace, but a sword.”

...... Even in their literal meaning those verses you quote don’t advocate violence so your point is moot.

BUT literally.... a sword is a sword!
So your statement (like all the others that you ‘babbled’) makes no sense!

According to the Dictionary of Bible Themes - The sword as the principal weapon of war (it lists all the different contexts, and under Metaphorical use of the sword) To symbolise judgment Ex 5:3; Mt 10:34 See also Jdg 7:20-22; 2Ch 20:9; Ps 7:12; Isa 31:8; Jer 50:35-37; Eze 11:8-10; Eze 21:3; Eze 33:2
http://www.biblegateway.com/resources/d ... 5572-sword




You can accuse me and others that point out to you on your claim that the Quran does support violence, that we are taking one liners and reading them literally. Yet you counter with one liners from the Quran that you want us to read literally. Foremost of all, that "Let there be no compulsion in religion, Quran 2:256." I want all those who read that to look up what Muhammad did when he conquered Mecca and there after a few months ppl were still engaging in idol worship as opposed to Islam, what he told them if they didn't stop.

In my view, while you avoid explaining the violent open-ended commands of Muhammad's latter half of his ministry but show the more peaceful general sayings of the earlier half of his ministry, all you are doing is showing more contradictions than I ever could.

I grow tried of our discussions on this point. I affirm that you do not take some of these verses literally but sadly there are a large number who do. I simple believe that there isnt any mechanism within Islam for them not to, only Western moral suasion stops them.

Good luck with trying to counter that the Bible gives likewise open-ended commands for violence today, one thing for sure the next terrorist attack we hear on the news, we know that it won't be a bunch of Anglicans quoting Deuteronomy as they explode their suicide vest laced with ball bearings.

[stev]

If there are so many religions with so many Gods, how come all humans have the same basic features?

Is it that these Gods got together and agreed on a blueprint?

Or is there really only one true God with the blueprint?

every species has adapted in different ways to survive......its evolution....not a blueprint.

Is Satan a creator or destroyer?

god = good
satan = bad

basics of teaching good from bad....imagine a world where people didnt know what is good from bad. lol


Do truly intelligent people really believe that the building blocks of life came hurtling through the atmosphere on an asteroid/comet from outer space? If so, then aliens must really exist!

yes...that is one theory....but there are many other theories as well.

and yes, chances of life forming on another planet or celestial body is very high.....may not be little green men, it can simply be a single cell creature.