The Religion Discussion

[AdamB]

Fact Habit! Lol.

RB, how was the chair-plane ride?

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

^^^ Wow that video biased.

3 evolutionary Phds against 1 creationist scientist. Even the Islamic creationist admits he knows nothing of science. The topic of the programme was biased to evolution, the evolutionists got more speaking time, the moderator was overtly biased to evolution (99.9% of scientists are not evolutionists) and the one example of evolution the paleontologist gave at the end doesn't show new genetic information being created (but the moderator shut down the pastor from pointing that out).

that's my point, videos like these can be easily biased.

still though, YEC don't get any respect for their psuedo-science.

Point is, in the scores of pages that have gone on, I have given you evidence for creation and shown how evolution is inconsistent with the model it claims to present. However you have failed to show naturalistic abiogenesis which underpins evolution theory and would out-rightly win the argument anyways.

abiogenesis and evolution are two completely different things. The theory of evolution says absolutely nothing about the origin of life. Similarly evolution says nothing of Big Bang.

abiogenesis is not a simple chemical compound becoming a frog overnight and I hope this is not what you believe it is. Abiogenesis has many steps in the process moving from chemical compounds to polymers to replicating polymers which eventually get to protobiont and then eventually to the simplest bacteria.
There are alot of scientific papers on this since the 1950's, I suggest you take a read.

What you need to keep in mind though is that the earth is NOT ~6000 years old so these things did not happen quickly or "overnight". Evolutionary processes take hundreds or even thousands of millions of years to take place.

Fact is, before God, you and I and moral law violators whom He must judge. Christ is the moral law keeper who died in our place who can take our punishment. His resurrected life will give us His righteousness and eternal life with God. At the end of the day my message is Christ work can only be realised in us when we repent of our sins and believe in Christ as who He said He is. Jesus Christ is the only way to know God.

oh THIS is fact now?

since when faith is fact?

[Habit7]

My video wasnt biased, it was one creationist asking several evolutionists simple questions like "name one example?"

I am fully aware of what abiogenesis is (I brought it up) but there is no scientific evidence for life coming from none life, none. Without that, the concept of improvement on simple life to more complex life is a faith premise. Proof of a naturalistic abiogenesis would be the biggest proof for evolution, certainly not the fossil record, even Darwin knew the fossil record didnt fully prove his theory.

I never said the earth is ~6000 years old.

Fact:
-you and I and moral law violators
-Christ is the moral law keeper who died
-He resurrected

Faith:
-Repent of your sins
-Trust in Christ as who He said He is
-Jesus Christ is the only way to know God

[rocknrolla]

i think habit7 u should ask him to provide a source of morality and moral instruction that pre-dates any form of religious philosophy.

philosophy, mysticism and it's child product religion are the founders of observed standards of morality. that cannot be disputed.

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

My video wasnt biased, it was one creationist asking several evolutionists simple questions like "name one example?"

I am fully aware of what abiogenesis is (I brought it up) but there is no scientific evidence for life coming from none life, none. Without that, the concept of improvement on simple life to more complex life is a faith premise. Proof of a naturalistic abiogenesis would be the biggest proof for evolution, certainly not the fossil record, even Darwin knew the fossil record didnt fully prove his theory.

I never said the earth is ~6000 years old.

Fact:
-you and I and moral law violators
-Christ is the moral law keeper who died
-He resurrected

Faith:
-Repent of your sins
-Trust in Christ as who He said He is
-Jesus Christ is the only way to know God

you said the earth is 6000-12000 years old. that is far from the scientific evidence that the earth is billions of years old. That is why you and other like you who believe that the Bible states the age of the earth are called Young Earth Creationists.

Where is the scientific evidence that Christ is the moral law keeper and that He resurrected?

You believe that all of mankind's morality comes from Christianity and I am saying that is a myopic view. Not only that other religions have also offered morals and ethics but that evolution and social growth has shaped psychological mechanisms that that develop human morality over time.

Like the video you posted, you want to do tests as part of the psuedo-science that you support, however like Dr. Lisle (who's beliefs you share) stated: "If we find scientific evidence that contradicts the Bible, we should discard it and go with what the Bible says" and this method cannot work. you cannot choose to use only the evidence that supports your belief and discard the rest.

[nareshseep]

556719_570669486323534_900305387_n.jpg (14.63 KiB) Viewed 2513 times

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[Habit7]

Unless we have different interpretations of mathematical symbols ~6,000 does not connote a range of 6,000 to 12,000

We have historical evidence that Christ was a moral law keeper and was resurrected, as I have said before, scientific evidence is not the only way to know if something is true.

I never said all of mankind's morality comes from Christianity.

One would think that if what you are saying is correct, then you wouldnt have to manipulate my views to prove show that I am wrong, however it seems you have to.

[HOPE4ALL]

[nareshseep]

Before christ was there morality?

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

Unless we have different interpretations of mathematical symbols ~6,000 does not connote a range of 6,000 to 12,000

We have historical evidence that Christ was a moral law keeper and was resurrected, as I have said before, scientific evidence is not the only way to know if something is true.

I never said all of mankind's morality comes from Christianity.

One would think that if what you are saying is correct, then you wouldnt have to manipulate my views to prove show that I am wrong, however it seems you have to.

oh c'mon, even if you said 20,000 you would be very far off. The tilde is used as "approximately".

maybe I misunderstood you. Where do you think mankind's morality comes from?

[bluefete]

ABSOLUTELY PORE RAISING.

'Angel' priest visits Missouri accident scene

Melanie Eversley, USA TODAY 11:04 a.m. EDT August 8, 2013

A mystery priest who suddenly appeared at a Mo. accident scene is being called an angel.
Story Highlights

Victim's vital signs were beginning to fail when priest showed up
Mystery man does not appear in any of the photos from the scene
Emergency workers would like to thank the mystery priest who prayed over them



Emergency workers and community members in eastern Missouri are not sure what to make of a mystery priest who showed up at a critical accident scene Sunday morning and whose prayer seemed to change life-threatening events for the positive.

Even odder, the black-garbed priest does not appear in any of the nearly 70 photos of the scene of the accident in which a 19-year-old girl almost died. No one knows the priest and he vanished without a word, said Raymond Reed, fire chief of New London, Mo.

"I think it's a miracle," Reed said. "I would say whether it was an angel that was sent to us in the form of a priest or a priest that became our angel, I don't know. Either way, I'm good with it."



Carla Churchill Lentz, mother of the teen who was critically injured, said emergency workers have told her there is no way her daughter should have lived inside such a mangled car. Of the priest, she said, "I do believe he certainly could have been an angel dressed in priest's attire because the Bible tells us there are angels among us."

The scene unfolded Sunday morning. Katie Lentz, a sophomore at Tulane University, was driving from her parents' home in Quincy, Ill., to Jefferson City, Mo., where she has a summer internship and planned to attend church with friends. The Mercedes she was driving collided with another vehicle on a highway near Center, Mo. The accident crushed Lentz's vehicle into a ball of sheet metal that lay on the driver's side, Reed said.

Reed's team and emergency workers from several other jurisdictions tried for at least 45 minutes to remove the twisted metal from around Lentz. Various pieces of equipment broke and the team was running out of choices. A helicopter waited to carry Lentz to the nearest trauma center. Though Lentz appeared calm, talking about her church and her studies toward a dentistry degree, her vital signs were beginning to fail, Reed said.



"I was pulled off to the side by one of the members of the" helicopter evacuation team, Reed said. "He expressed to me that we were out of time. Her condition looked grim for her coming out of that vehicle alive. She was facing major problems."

At that point, Reed's team agreed to take the life-threatening chance of sitting the vehicle upright so that Lentz could be removed from it. This is dangerous because a sudden change in pressure to the body can be critical, he said.

That's when Lentz asked if someone would pray with her and a voice said, "I will."

The silver-haired priest in his 50s or 60s in black pants, black shirt and black collar with visible white insert stepped forward from nowhere. It struck Reed as odd because the street was blocked off 2 miles from the scene and no one from the nearby communities recognized him.

"We're all local people from four different towns," Reed said. "We've only got one Catholic church out of three towns and it wasn't their priest."

Reed and the other emergency workers were on their knees. The priest of about medium build, maybe 6-feet-tall, stood above them.

"This priest approached Katie and began to pray openly with her," Reed said. "He had a bottle of anointing oil with him and he used that."

Another firefighter who had been watching said it appeared as if the priest also sprinkled Reed and two other emergency workers nearby with oil.

Everything happened quickly after that. Twenty emergency workers pulled together and sat the car upright, Churchill Lentz said. Katie Lentz's vital signs improved and a rescue team from a neighboring community suddenly appeared with fresh equipment and tools. Lentz was removed and rushed to the hospital.

With Lentz gone, the rescue team prepared to clean up, Reed said.

"We all go back to thank this priest and he's gone," he said.

Initially, they assumed he had to get to his home church to lead Sunday services. But then they looked at their photos of the scene.

"I have 69 photographs that were taken from minutes after that accident happened — bystanders, the extrication, our final cleanup — and he's not in them," Reed said. "All we want to do is thank him."

Meantime, the Missouri State Highway Patrol reports a 26-year-old male was arrested Sunday on charges of DWI, failure to drive on the right half of the roadway and second-degree felony assault. He was treated and released from a local hospital, according to the report.

The Facebook page of Lentz's mother, Carla Church Lentz, indicates Lentz is on the mend despite suffering two broken femurs, a broken tibia and fibia, broken left wrist, nine broken ribs, a lacerated liver, ruptured spleen and bruised lung.



Churchill Lentz said her daughter has undergone two surgeries at Blessing Hospital in Quincy, Ill., and will undergo two more, but has been upgraded from critical to serious and is doing well.

"She sustained a lot of injuries, however, her face is beautiful, her teeth are perfect, she is sunshine, and everyone who's contacted us — those emergency personnel, the Missouri State Patrol, the deputies, the firemen — they are all saying the same thing, she never cried, she never screamed, she would just say, 'pray for me and pray out loud.' "

[Habit7]

Roman 2:12-16 For all who have sinned without the Law will also perish without the Law, and all who have sinned under the Law will be judged by the Law; for it is not the hearers of the Law who are just before God, but the doers of the Law will be justified. For when Gentiles who do not have the Law do instinctively the things of the Law, these, not having the Law, are a law to themselves, in that they show the work of the Law written in their hearts, their conscience bearing witness and their thoughts alternately accusing or else defending them, on the day when, according to my gospel, God will judge the secrets of men through Christ Jesus.

The Bible says that while Jews may have always received instruction from the Lord (the Law) we as Gentiles, even though we havent initially had instruction from the Law, we demonstrate that we have all received the Law in our conscience. We all demonstrate we instinctively obey God's Law written on our conscience (no matter how corrupted our conscience might be).

In short, mankind's morality initially comes from God through our conscience.

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

^ why then isn't Christianity on their conscience or even an inkling of it?

Entire populations and countries have risen as Hindus, Muslims, Buddhist, Aztec, Mayan, Amerindian religions, South Pacific religions etc etc. without any trace of Christianity unless they came into contact with Christians later in their history yet they had morals and ethics in their own social and religious teachings.

[Habit7]

Again, I never said that Christianity is needed for someone to be moral.

We are all given a moral compass that shows us our moral state (Romans 2:15). God has given us general revelation of Him and his attributes (Romans 1:18-21). But in order to know Him intimately one must receive special revelation (Romans 10:14-17) where one must hear the gospel message and believe unto salvation. You are asking some good questions, you should take sometime and read the book of Romans (can be read in less than an hour). It is said to be the best systematic thesis of man and his state before a holy God.

Therefore God has chosen not to reveal Himself just as instinctively as we possess a morality through our conscience, but only by the preaching of His Word through men.
1 Corinthians 1:21 For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not come to know God, God was well-pleased through the foolishness of the message preached to save those who believe.

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

So then the atheists have the same morality as theists?

Do you think some religions have better morals than others?

[Habit7]

No

Yes

[Sky]

Chris Angel - smart people around = Jesus.
Justsayin.

[nareshseep]

So then the atheists have the same morality as theists?

Do you think some religions have better morals than others?

No

Yes

It would be safe to say that atheists have some sort of morality, and that you are biased toward thinking that theists are superior?

[Habit7]

nareshseep I believe we have been down this road before viewtopic.php?f=4&t=267363&start=12870#p6879135

[RBphoto]

Had a nice Eid? I did. Here are a few of my shots for the season.

https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set ... 276&type=1

https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set ... 276&type=1

[nareshseep]

nareshseep I believe we have been down this road before viewtopic.php?f=4&t=267363&start=12870#p6879135

I hear you but atheism was around way before theism.
Theism stands on the shoulders of atheism and not the other way around.
Believe in all or believe in none. There is no middle ground. When you choose a path you choose the middle ground.

At the end of it all we are both biased. And no side can be proven.

[livewire]

I wasn't going to post here but curiosity got the better of me.

Any of you guys in the petroleum industry?
How do you explain fossil fuels?
We know its not from dinosaurs, it is from organic matter even before that time, so how do you explain its existence.

[Habit7]

At the end of it all we are both biased. And no side can be proven.

I would agree that we are both biased. But I know of no atheist culture that preceded a deistic or theistic culture.

I understand the view that believing in one God means that you are an atheist of other gods, however this still means that you are a theist. I cant see how theism stands on the shoulders of atheism.

I still maintain that morality as it is expressed in atheism, deism or theism has its starting point in a God-giving conscience. But our Western morality has been tremendously shaped by Christianity.

[RBphoto]

I wasn't going to post here but curiosity got the better of me.

Any of you guys in the petroleum industry?
How do you explain fossil fuels?
We know its not from dinosaurs, it is from organic matter even before that time, so how do you explain its existence.

Evolution.... a mitsucrew person should be able to respect that answer.

[livewire]

Evolution.... a mitsucrew person should be able to respect that answer.

I can respect that...but we know others believe that the earth is not that old so what do their cars use?

[rocknrolla]

I wasn't going to post here but curiosity got the better of me.

Any of you guys in the petroleum industry?
How do you explain fossil fuels?
We know its not from dinosaurs, it is from organic matter even before that time, so how do you explain its existence.

probably from the various times God claims to have wiped out man for abandoning him. might be the reason we also have to scrape for tablets at ancient sites to try and decode their culture and figure out how the pyramids were built. they were wiped out without a trace. so God has probably been saving the faithful and wiping out the wicked for eons.

[Habit7]

Fossil fuels come from the break down of organic rich sediment (phytoplankton in oceans, higher plants on land, not dinosaurs)

But it is a unresolved issue in Petroleum Geology as to how does hydrocarbon liquid even gas have been able to stay at such great pressures over millions of years

[ImprezaDriver]

I wasn't going to post here but curiosity got the better of me.

Any of you guys in the petroleum industry?
How do you explain fossil fuels?
We know its not from dinosaurs, it is from organic matter even before that time, so how do you explain its existence.

probably from the various times God claims to have wiped out man for abandoning him. might be the reason we also have to scrape for tablets at ancient sites to try and decode their culture and figure out how the pyramids were built. they were wiped out without a trace. so God has probably been saving the faithful and wiping out the wicked for eons.

This thread is the best practical joke thread I've ever read.

I always wonder why minorities of any kind, especially blacks and Latinos believe in christianity. Modern religion was literally BEATEN into your ancestors when they were enslaved by the white man. 99% of Africans and the natives in the Americas before the White invasion had never even heard of Jesus Christ until they whipped and tortured it into your great-great grandmothers and grandfathers. How in the fu.ck can you believe in this crap? Your ancestors did just fine before modern religion came along, and 2000 years before that their ancestors did just fine too. And just to add, the bible and koran both state that "uncivilized" heathens (hmmm, wonder who that means) were meant to be enslaved and shown the "light". LOL.

The glory of god being sent through the same people that enslaved you. Pretty damn ironic I must say.

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

nareshseep I believe we have been down this road before viewtopic.php?f=4&t=267363&start=12870#p6879135

I hear you but atheism was around way before theism.
Theism stands on the shoulders of atheism and not the other way around.
Believe in all or believe in none. There is no middle ground. When you choose a path you choose the middle ground.

At the end of it all we are both biased. And no side can be proven.

proven? What do you need to prove?

[Habit7]

Wow Duane, can you share with us how atheism doesn't need to be proven?