The Religion Discussion

[bluefete]

I believe god allows stuff to happen.

Someone is on the right track. Now all he needs is to study Natural Law - and return explaining this even better.

The Natural Laws were put in place by God.

Again, some take God out of the equation and say that everything happens naturally.

God does allow stuff to happen. Why do you think we ended up with Uncle Patos?

Oh gorm... another one...

"The Natural Laws were put in place by God" is not being disputed. No need for implied clarification. (Nice that you should point it out, though... thanks, cap'n.)

"This does not mean that He is not in control of them." Oooh... errr... how to say this? Please find an elder in whatever religion you follow, who teaches theology (not someone who "read the bible" and "knows what he's talking about") and ask him about Natural Law. Better yet, take a course yourself in theology - you will be able to handle your arguments far better, more persuasively, and certainly, more logically.
The creation and implementation of Natural Law means: yes, He is in control, but there's much more to it than that. Read on.

"Again, some take God out of the equation and say that everything happens naturally."
This is what Natural Law is about. People who "say" this are stating the rationale of Natural Law. They aren't "taking God out of the equation", they are just stating the obvious.

Cheers

Sometimes when we consider natural laws they seem so perfect that it is easy to forget the Creator.

I would have thought that each aspect of God's Creation was perfect...
As far as "they seem so perfect that it is easy to forget the Creator" is concerned, there is an Eastern saying that says: The fingerprint of the Creator is seen in His Creation.
Perfection hints at that which is Perfect...
People choose to not believe for quite more valid reasons. Like the glaring, poor examples that history displays.
If you believe in God, then you would also believe that there are times in each of our lives that some form of contact is made. If this contact is not reciprocated, then some other form of contact would have to be made.
If you are hammering a nail into a piece of wood and the nail bends, hitting it harder will only succeed in bending it further or breaking it.
I am sure the carpenter would agree when I say, methinks your hammering is only bending nails. Rethink your approach to this concern you have for the "unbelieving". Just because they don't agree with your concepts doesn't mean they are wrong - it means they see it differently. (Three men from different parts of the world, upon seeing a carrot for the first time, will form different ideas or concepts as to what it is.) Many of such have morals and values that would shame some of today's "Christians".

They do see it differently. And everyone can "justify" their perspective of why something is right or wrong. But, does God move from His concept of what is right and wrong?

When things happen in the Natural world, is there a Spiritual connection or are both disaggregated from each other? (That reading like something from the "Avatar" movie.)

[d spike]

And everyone can "justify" their perspective of why something is right or wrong.
Quite right. Everyone also includes you. And me. Remember that the term "believer" and "unbeliever" are concepts formed in the minds of only the former.

But, does God move from His concept of what is right and wrong?
This question is based on a couple of (theological) errors, but that joke is for another time... To answer your rhetorical question (based on the meaning you wanted it to have): You know He doesn't - but how are you aware of what God's concepts are? Do you claim to know the mind of God? Or are you basing what you think (your, ahem, perspective) on a book... the same book that says, "your ways are not my ways, your thoughts are not my thoughts"?

When things happen in the Natural world, is there a Spiritual connection or are both disaggregated from each other?
They aren't divorced, as one is part of the other. The connection exists as one formed the other and put laws in place at the same time to allow it to basically run itself.

Why is it so hard for some "believers" to appreciate the concept that the greater miracle is not the Creator who has to tug each leaf, prod each root, lift each bird and crack the thunder, like some ethereal control freak... but the Great Watchmaker who formed all the little wheels and thingmabobs that spin on their own, each perfect in its own niche, fitting seamlessly into each other, all doing their own thing, yet part of something greater...

Cheers

[MG Man]

BUTTOCKS

[d spike]

BUTTOCKS

Good grief... if anything else, you certainly have become persistent, consistent, brash, caustically brief and predictable. HEY! Is it that you have got religion now?

[MG Man]

BUTTOCKS

Good grief... if anything else, you certainly have become persistent, consistent, brash, caustically brief and predictable. HEY! Is it that you have got religion now?

[d spike]

BUTTOCKS

Good grief... if anything else, you certainly have become persistent, consistent, brash, caustically brief and predictable. HEY! Is it that you have got religion now?

Burn-again?

[d spike]

You know what I have found to be rather alarming? That there are people who will agree that each of us is unique... they will state that everyone is quite different... they will denounce organized religion for lumping humanity together... expound on the virtue of personal interpretation of scriptures... prate on about having Jesus as your personal saviour, and the importance of having a personal relationship with him...

...and then turn around and tell you that their perspective is THE right one... their interpretation of a book combined of many books, written by many different people from many different walks of life, spanning centuries, from differing cultures, different languages each with its own idioms, translated through different languages - sometimes by amateur translators who didn't fully understand the lingo - full of conflicting ideals and concepts, is THE proper interpretation...

[MG Man]

welcome to the sick sad world of humanity

[d spike]

whatever happened to the (God-given?) gift of intellect and logic? How can you honour a God that you claim exists, by first casting away that which makes you chief among his creation?

[MG Man]

my son, logic is thine enemy

[d spike]

"The most common form of madness is the lack of logic" - can't remember who said that... well, I did, at any rate...

[QG]

I see the thread revive lol.



I will browse through the previous posts, then comment

[MG Man]

halleluja

[RMSTTL]

So hear nah bluey....in meh great grandfather days they say god coming just now....he ent come.

In meh grandfather days they say god coming just now...he ent come.

In meh father days they say god coming just now....he ent come.

In my days they say god coming just now....he ent come.

Hear nah....I sure every man on earth want to know......waiz he secret?

My two cents: In His word God says that a day with Him is as 1000 yrs with us and 1000 yrs as 1 day to Him. So the reality is that since God spoke those words only 6 days have passed and we are now in the 7th day. Now He also said what the signs would be before the end came Matthew 24, and all one has to do is a quick web search to see that the signs are more prevelant today than ever before. Now some would say that is because communications have advanced and yes to a certain extent this has contributed but anyone with ears to hear and eyes to see can see that the world experiences more "natural" disasters today that at anytime throughout recorded history.
Bottom line --- we all have choices to make. And based on our choices we reap the rewards. I have "lived the life" as a part of the world with all the desires, vices and trapings that go with it. And now I have made the choice to live apart from these things and focus on the things of God. I believe I have made the right choice as others also believe they have in all that they do. Only time will tell. But common sense would tell me that it is better to serve God and have a hope than to follow my flesh and have no hope.
Just my 2 cents.

[sMASH]

that is ur common sense telling u to do dat. my common sense may tell me sumtin different; another person may have sumtin different to both of us.

the point is: u cannot go round the place tellin people that they wrong for believing what they believe when the only thing that separates u from them is that they believe one thing and u believe another. the same way u watchin them and tellin urself ' how them could believe that bullsh...' is the same them watchin u and thinking the same thing

[d spike]

It is remarkable how many so-called "christians" favour and give more weight to apocalyptic scripture in Old Testament writings and Revelations while ignoring the Christ's words: No one knows the hour.

Man is fascinated with the "end of time" and being able to calculate it. Due to this, apocalyptic writings have magnetically drawn his gaze and imagination, and feverishly he calculates - convinced that somehow he can unlock the numbers and tell when the Messiah will come, ignoring the Christ's words: No one knows the hour.

What is it with these people? Why can't they accept His words... or are they foolishly trying to decipher scripture that they don't really believe?

Any student of Jewish culture and writings will point out the use of apocalyptic idiom and massive numbers to show the belief in the awesome and massive power of God.

But hey, it's more fun to try and break the code, read the signs of the times, claim the end is nigh... so what? What use is your religion if it doesn't teach you how to live? If there is to be a Judgment, it is how we live - not how soon we figured the end would be - that we would be judged by.

[Chimera]

I looking to start a religion.

Do what allyuh want, believe in whatever allyuh want (u cud worship a car battery for all i care) and you still get salvation/God at death.


anyone interested

[d spike]

I looking to start a religion.

Do what allyuh want, believe in whatever allyuh want (u cud worship a car battery for all i care) and you still get salvation/God at death.


anyone interested

Only two questions:
How much yuh have to put in de collection?
Does salvation include virgins?

[Chimera]

well you have to religiously attend "service" when i call it

service would usually be, meet me in a bar with the rest of the congregation to drink and talk sheit and eat sum cutters

or going down santa maria to inspect the gifts from God



and salvation includes anything you want
in my religion, all are welcome and anything is forgiven.

[Chimera]

and as for donations/collection

beer money.

[d spike]

I going with what the imam say in Juma today. We should have pity on our neighbors in Haiti, but remember, god is punishing them for the amount of black magic that pervades their society.

I wonder if the old boy applies this same rationale to the suffering and death in Palestine.

[sMASH]

^^ at the end of the day, he is still just a man,,, fallible. but he should know better than to make an unfounded statement like that. if i was there i mighta get so vex i mighta aks him right there for the proof.

[d spike]

well you have to religiously attend "service" when i call it

service would usually be, meet me in a bar with the rest of the congregation to drink and talk sheit and eat sum cutters

or going down santa maria to inspect the gifts from God



and salvation includes anything you want
in my religion, all are welcome and anything is forgiven.

I have a problem with this...
History has shown us that all religions worthy of the name must look like an exclusive club - you know, the us and them. It's no fun unless you get to pity the "themses" because you're saved and they're not, say publicly that you will pray for their souls (after all, God listens to 'us', not 'them'), and have a generally condescending or paternalistic attitude towards 'them'.
In short, you gotta have the 'themses'. who else will you tie to the stake and burn as a lesson to other 'themses'?

[d spike]

^^ at the end of the day, he is still just a man,,, fallible. but he should know better than to make an unfounded statement like that. if i was there i mighta get so vex i mighta aks him right there for the proof.

Huh, everybody knows that constipation, diarrhea and leg-cramp in the West Indies is caused mainly by all that Satan-worshiping crap in Haiti...

[Chimera]

Hmm good point.


I was thinking all other religions would be "themses"


Because come on, we don't even have to try that hard to make fun of them,

[d spike]

and as for donations/collection

beer money.

How many beers? I don't mean to sound miserly, but I have a specific budgetary allocation for God - and if it costs more than that, then that tells me that it ain't right for me (hence the reason why I don't have any dealings with churches whose worthy pastors drive BMWs... if they used 120ys, then I would probably reconsider...)

[Chimera]

beers for yourself

Or water if you are inclined.

[d spike]

Hmm good point.


I was thinking all other religions would be "themses"


Because come on, we don't even have to try that hard to make fun of them,

Making fun of people is boring. Burning them at the stake is more fun. (Besides, you can toast rolls and marshmallows behind and bake potatoes in the embers.)

[Chimera]

nah nah, my religion more mellow and laid back, we eh care about the other religions, them could do what they want


so no burning at the stake

[d spike]

Like old Torquemada used to say, "A good man always has a bible in one hand and a box of matches in the other."