The Religion Discussion

[marlener]

Wait is ask you asking Salvation4U about the age of the earth as far as the bible is concerned Duane!! you have been saying that persons said that the bible said so.I asked where and who did as I could not find it in looking back.Seeing that you have made a claim as you like to sing isn`t the burden of proof on you to show where or who, are trying to rope in Salvation4U?
@ new_SPECIES was any pictures taken of Jesus as far as you know?

[New_SPECIES]

@ new_SPECIES was any pictures taken of Jesus as far as you know?

Well somebody must have; even if it was a drawing or sketch... Everyone can’t be imagining the same thing...

The long hair, the moustache...etc.

Almost everyone who calls themselves a christian has either a 'cross' with the man on it (like an idol), or his picture somewhere in their house and all has clear features of the person.

In all the pics I've seen the guy almost looks the same is just the race of the man people changing!


Feel free to read over my previous post to get my point...

[maj. tom]

^ you read http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Depiction_of_Jesus

[Habit7]

Firstly there is no picture of Jesus, just artists renditions. Artists renditions of Jesus are only wrong when people worship or venerate because Jesus is God and the professed Christians that do so are wrong and are breaking the 2nd commandment, once again because Jesus is God.

For the Muslims that do make artists renditions of Muhammad (there have been numerous throughout history) and those that don't, why not? If they did it are they worshipping/venerating him? And those who don't would it because like God it is wrong to make an idol of Him and worship/venerate it?





One would think that if Allah is the true God, he would properly understand the doctrine of the Trinity he is refuting and not attack something Christians do not believe like Jesus being the offspring of the Father.

New_SPECIES allow me quote.

The complete revelation of who God is in the Bible has always been one in essence, three in person. Jesus is the Son, while not being the Father or the Holy Spirit. The 3 persons are one God, coequal, co-eternal, which the title Father and Son demonstrating their relationship, not progeny.

Jesus addressing the Father as "Father" is a fact attested to by the four gospel writers, the eyewitnesses and the Jews who sought to kill Him for equating Himself with the Father. Whatever the singular man Muhammad claims, in the Islamic scriptures, 700yrs after the event, in a far removed culture, is irrelevant due to the fact he is the singular source on an event that is well-documented and well-known within the lifespan of those who could have refuted it could have said otherwise.

Funny you brought up Sura 4:156-159 because it has some shocking conclusions I want you to consider.

The God of the Torah, Psalms and Gospel, the one you believe is Allah said
Numbers 23:19 “God is not a man, that He should lie, Nor a son of man, that He should repent; Has He said, and will He not do it? Or has He spoken, and will He not make it good,
Psalms 101:7 He who practices deceit shall not dwell within my house; He who speaks falsehood shall not maintain his position before me
Jesus rebuking the Jews, comparing them to Satan said John 8:44 You are of your father the devil, and you want to do the desires of your father. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth because there is no truth in him. Whenever he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own nature, for he is a liar and the father of lies.

That being said, what is the reason why I and others belong to the largest religion in the world?

Well according to the Quran, 2,000 years ago, Allah deceived the followers of Jesus into believing that He died on the cross when He truly didn't. Although this deception ended up fulfilling Old Testament prophecy and Jesus' teachings and all the apostles died as martyrs never renouncing this fact, Christianity ended up becoming the major shaper of modern society all thanks to Allah.

But this deception is not strange to Allah for the Quran calls Allah a makr and the best of makr: But they (the Jews) were deceptive, and Allah was deceptive, for Allah is the best of deceivers (Wamakaroo wamakara Allahu waAllahu khayru al-makireena)! S. 3:54 (source lexicon for makr http://www.studyquran.co.uk/14_MIIM.htm). Or even Muhammad prayed to Allah that he would not deceive him but deceive for him "Alayya, Wamkur Li Wa La Tamkur ‘Alayya" http://sunnah.com/tirmidhi/48/182

So consider that for Christian, they understand from Islam
1] Christianity is Allah's evil plot against them
2] Satan - the father of all lies (John 8:44) appears to have the same attributes as Allah - the best of all deceivers (3:54)
3] How can Islamists be sure that Allah is not giving them the same deception that he claims to give Christians?

[RBphoto]

The Kaba is the biggest idol in the world They bow to it wherever they are.... and Muslims get bent that Hindus bow down facing little figureens... go figure.

[Habit7]

oh lest I forget

4] As if omniscience was not attribute of God, Allah is assisted by Muhammad on the Day of Judgement as his intercession for Muslims that have been living while he was dead, would inform Allah's decision. This is directly opposed to the role prophesied in Isaiah 53:12 and fulfilled in Jesus Christ who now sits at the right hand of the Father as Lord as it says 600 years before Muhammad saw himself in that role:
Hebrews 7:25 Therefore He is able also to save forever those who draw near to God through Him, since He always lives to make intercession for them.

Because Jesus is God.

[AdamB]

oh lest I forget

4] As if omniscience was not attribute of God, Allah is assisted by Muhammad on the Day of Judgement as his intercession for Muslims that have been living while he was dead, would inform Allah's decision. This is directly opposed to the role prophesied in Isaiah 53:12 and fulfilled in Jesus Christ who now sits at the right hand of the Father as Lord as it says 600 years before Muhammad saw himself in that role:
Hebrews 7:25 Therefore He is able also to save forever those who draw near to God through Him, since He always lives to make intercession for them.

Because Jesus is God.

Habit,
Firstly: It's about time you give up your obsession with this intercession thing. Muhammad on the day of Judgment will NOT be assisting Allah BUT will be humbly asking for forgiveness for muslims / those who follow him (believes that he is the Messenger of Allah).

To put it in a form that you may understand (if that's possible): Muhammad is (directs to) THE WAY of obedience to GOD.

Secondly: Reconciling what I have enlarged above, is Jesus sitting at the right hand of himself?

[AdamB]

The Kaba is the biggest idol in the world They bow to it wherever they are.... and Muslims get bent that Hindus bow down facing little figureens... go figure.

Is that what you do or used to do?

Do you walk with your figureen in your pocket when you go to mosque for tarawih?

The Kaba is a direction in unity. One would think that someone with your intelligence and academic qualifications would be able to comprehend that...oh well...

[AdamB]

Firstly there is no picture of Jesus, just artists renditions. Artists renditions of Jesus are only wrong when people worship or venerate because Jesus is God and the professed Christians that do so are wrong and are breaking the 2nd commandment, once again because Jesus is God.

[color=#0000FF]Second Commandment of Moses:
4 “You shall not make for yourself an image in the form of anything in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below. 5 You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the sin of the parents to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me, 6 but showing love to a thousand generations of those who love me and keep my commandments.[/color]

Surely, your interpretation trumps the command of GOD!

Oh sorry, my mistake, HE says don't make it for yourself but you can make it for everyone else, as long as it's not for yourself. Typical of the Jews, they would try to find every loophole to disobey GOD.

BTW Which one of the Ten Commandments or which part of the Second Commandment says that "Jesus is GOD"?

[marlener]

Well I read over your previous post,I think the picture of Jesus is just your opinion.Almost every Christian you say,anyway I have no pictures,cross,statutes at home.As far as I am concerned the worship of any image is wrong.

[Habit7]

Exodus 20:4-6 “You shall not make for yourself an idol, or any likeness of what is in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the water under the earth. You shall not worship them or serve them; for I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children, on the third and the fourth generations of those who hate Me, but showing lovingkindness to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments.

this all corresponds with Leviticus 26:1, Deuteronomy 5:8 and Deuteronomy 27:15 which all state that it is wrong to worship idols (objects to receive worship) as opposed to icons (objects that don't receive worship). This further substantiated by the fact that later on in Exodus God gives the Jews instructions on the design of the Ark of the Covenant which includes fashioning two angels ("likeness of what is in heaven above").




I see that you have avoided 1] 2] & 3] and choose to repeat your rhetoric on 4]. Call it what you want but, it is a man who needs forgiveness (40:55, 48:2 and 47:19) asking the omniscient Allah to forgive you. If I am ever before a judge for heinous crimes like murder, rape and torture, please don't ask a murdering rapist torturer to plead for me or be my character witness.

We Christians read the New Testament and see where it explicitly teaches that the man Jesus was Immanuel "God with us" (Isaiah 9:6-7, Matthew 1:22-23).
However when we see, the Quran recited by the man Muhammad, teaching that Allah has given him these roles that seems to be mirroring Jesus, we wonder what is it implicitly teaching?

[AdamB]

Like you didn't see: "any likeness of what is in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the water under the earth."

And keep wondering....

[nareshseep]

1013074_376652145768156_569627814_n.jpg (31.39 KiB) Viewed 1348 times

[wagonrunner]

Modern Day Job - put yourself in her shoes.

http://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/local/h ... 44611.html

[Habit7]

Like you didn't see: "any likeness of what is in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the water under the earth."
And keep wondering....

And you have not read:
Exodus 25:18-19 You shall make two cherubim of gold, make them of hammered work at the two ends of the mercy seat. Make one cherub at one end and one cherub at the other end; you shall make the cherubim of one piece with the mercy seat at its two ends.

You cry that non-Muslims read and interpret your violent verses wrongly but here is a clear case of you doing the same, it is not saying "never make an image," it is saying dont worship it.

What should concern you is not that some Christians might be breaking the 2nd commandment but, how come the Allah of the Quran is not only breaking the 9th commandment by being a deceiver (makr) but the best of deceivers (makr) Surah 3:34

[New_SPECIES]

Firstly there is no picture of Jesus, just artists renditions. Artists renditions of Jesus are only wrong when people worship or venerate because Jesus is God and the professed Christians that do so are wrong and are breaking the 2nd commandment, once again because Jesus is God.

So you are saying that Jesus is God?...........WOW!

Then how is it that so many sects in the Christianity have a different point of view; that is they believe that he is a prophet? And they are reading your same book? And just like you, they speak as though they have facts!
Are they misguided? And if they are misguided after reading your same book, then how do you know that u are guided correctly?

For the Muslims that do make artists renditions of Muhammad (there have been numerous throughout history) and those that don't, why not? If they did it are they worshipping/venerating him? And those who don't would it because like God it is wrong to make an idol of Him and worship/venerate it?

Didn’t you read my post about why it is not ok for the image of him....
You just have me wasting space on the thread.... Let me Quote Myself:

Another Islamic point to show that Muslims don’t worship Prophet Muhammad is the fact that no Picture was ever taken of him or recorded.

This image recording of the prophet creates alot of segregation and misguidance of their teachings.

For example: since so many images of Jesus taken, many people focussed their attention on his Image rather than his teachings.

Hence the reason why in some homes and some parts of the world, you will see a picture of a Rasta Jesus, then in another place u will see Jesus as a White man, and another place u will see Jesus as a Middle East person.

My point is that, this caused some races to feel less superior if they saw that God chose his “son” (according to you) to be white or black etc..

Even his hair etc caused separation, for example:
If someone with curly hair saw a Jesus pic with straight hair they would then feel less superior etc.

Do you know that the White Christians think that Jesus was pure white?

Muslims didn’t take pics / sketches of Prophet Muhammad for this same reason. We were advised by him to only remember his way of life, attitude to others, morals, advice, teachings, etc.

And concerning this:

The complete revelation of who God is in the Bible has always been one in essence, three in person. Jesus is the Son, while not being the Father or the Holy Spirit. The 3 persons are one God, coequal, co-eternal, which the title Father and Son demonstrating their relationship, not progeny.

Like I said in my previous post:

Do you know that the Quran and its writings are amongst the most preserved books in the world.
This was even proven by non-muslims on various websites.

The book is written in such a way that the Arabic language itself sounds like a song.
Although the English translation does not rhyme or have a song effect, the Arabic verses do.
Through this, the book and its exact wording is easily memorized, the same way a person could memorize an entire song or poem.

It has been done like this over centuries and decades, so even if others may re-write or try to change anything, it can be easily regurgitated and placed back into original script.

Even right here in Trinidad there are thousands of Muslims who have memorized the entire Quran from its original state..

Have you ever heard Quranic recitations? If not, then check me back after...

And what can you say about the originality of your book that you continuously quote these Strong Statements...?

So many people rewrote that book ....because the man died and so on...

ALSO....

How can u believe in the (original) bible and not the Quran. They are all from the same god.
Is like reading and (trying to) understanding a STD 3 Text book but saying the STD 4 book for the same topic, is wrong...

Like I said before... (such a repetitious topic!)

I’ll go back to quote a statement I made waaay back on page 508

When you all were children and didn’t know anything, didn’t you read and learn,
................even though sometimes you didn’t understand what the hell it was about.

It’s like explaining “what is an atom” to an infant... An infant doesn’t even know why the hell he has to say ‘A’ for ‘apple’, but he says it, then eventually (later in his life) he understood what it was all about.

Because humans were not created perfect and are always argumentative, revelations were sent to the people in stages just as an infant would start school learning “a b c” then to “what/when/why”.

People were placed in this world to test them. They are tested to see if they would use their ‘gift’ of free will to follow the temptations of satan or accept god and resist these temptations.

Humans were placed here without knowledge of “what/when/why”, but were initially thought the “a b c” of god along with the difference between right and wrong.

They were first advised that there was a god through revelations and the first holy book (go research the name). Just like Primary Math for STD1 etc... Mankind’s test was either to believe in it or not.

Then they were advised on basic “right” from “wrong” through the second holy book (go research the name).

With years between each book they were then given more details on Heaven and Hell...etc, from a third book.

Then lastly they were advised on specifics like, how to eat, how to talk, how to dress, how exactly to pray, etc, from a fourth book.

The more recent holy books contain stuff written in previous books; just the same way a Form5 Math text would review LCM and HCF.

So if one reads one of these holy books (with the intention of at least learning something), and keeps reading (although he may not initially understand everything) eventually it will all make sense.


What I mentioned above is to summarize a chain of events over a very long period of time and to show a simple reasoning for it. Think.... if god told the people about everything in one shot it would be the same as explaining Molecular Theory to an infant.

So now tell me... if your book is the ultimate and final book with everything u need to know about the correct way of life, do’s and don’ts etc, then how is that so many things are missing. And how is looking as though Jesus left out some things.....

Such as:

(1) A defined way for believers to pray: (I’ll expand on just this one to show you what I’m saying)

In Christian Churches:
• You have some people jumping up and down
• You hear them sing songs that man wrote and told them to sing
• Some people just sit and hear some man talk and they feel blessed
• Some people get slapped in their heads and forced to knock out cold on the ground
• Some people put their hands in the sky and repeat anything the pastor say
• Some people go to track man/woman and still come out feeling blessed
• Some people Sing Soca and Rap and calling Jesus Name and they feeling blessed (eg. Jump Up and Wave for Jesus). Next thing they will say is, "take a wine for Jesus!"...
• People are allowed to dress decent and others basically whatever they wish to wear (eg. Tight clothes, mini-skirts, exposing clothing etc)
• Some churches have different payer times to others and try to make it convenient for people (as though the worship of god is for ‘when we have time’)................etc, etc, etc...



In Islamic Mosques:

• Since u clearly know nothing about the religion, then maybe if u ever see on tv the way muslims pray, u will notice that it is standardized throughout the world.
• Everyone following the same physical motion of prostration to god, no matter which country they are in.
• Everyone recites prayer that is standardized.
• Men and women are separate, to prevent temptation from the other sex.
• The believers are thought to maintain order and discipline even while praying hence the straight lines formed.
• A code of dress is maintained in all places of worship for both men and women.
• Before ever praying or entering a place of worship, certain routines of cleanliness must be performed (eg. Routine of washing hands, feet, face, neck, ears, mouth, etc).
• Times for major prayers are fixed (and are not for when u have time).

The Islam and Quran also teaches...
(2) How a person should speak; in public, to each other, to strangers, to their spouse, etc
(3) How a person should eat; how much, when, where, posture while eating, what to eat, etc
(4) How to Dress; to pray, to go out, to stay at home, etc
(5) How to generally carry about themselves; at home, with relatives, with strangers, etc
(6) How to treat others; your spouse, your friends, your relatives, your neighbours, etc

And many other guidelines such as: how to sleep, how to bath...etc. etc.

These are essential guidelines that make people say that Islam too ‘strict’.

What it does is, give answers to all questions that might be of an uncertainty to someone in a particular situation. It ensures that the believer is sure that he/she is doing the right thing. It also grants the believer with extra blessings for doing routine ‘everyday’ duties, in accordance with the scripture.

What specific guidelines have you been given by your book?

My point is that the Quran was meant to be a follow up of the Bible hence the missing ‘detailed’ guidelines as is mentioned in the Quran.

The complete revelation of who God is in the Bible has always been one in essence, three in person. Jesus is the Son, while not being the Father or the Holy Spirit. The 3 persons are one God, coequal, co-eternal, which the title Father and Son demonstrating their relationship, not progeny.

Do you know........that is the same explanation Hindus give for their belief in endless number of gods. They say all are one, coequal and eternal, etc...

Jesus addressing the Father as "Father" is a fact attested to by the four gospel writers, the eyewitnesses and the Jews who sought to kill Him for equating Himself with the Father. Whatever the singular man Muhammad claims, in the Islamic scriptures, 700yrs after the event, in a far removed culture, is irrelevant due to the fact he is the singular source on an event that is well-documented and well-known within the lifespan of those who could have refuted it could have said otherwise.

So you really believe that Jesus has disciples, eyewitnesses, writers, etc, but millions of people believe in Islam due to one man without disciples, eyewitnesses, writers, authentic script, etc.. Like I said... WOW!

Of Course the Prophet Muhammad has disciples: they are called Sahabah (saw-ha-ba)... look it up!

It is clear now that you don’t even have the basic knowledge of Islam but you are ready to make false accusations and claims. Revise what I said about the authenticity of the Quran....

All of the revelations of god came through about four books and they all were almost hundreds of years apart, so what’s your point of saying “700 years after”?
Be it 10,000 years after, God is the one who knows all that happened before and after and hence it was all quoted in the Quran and referenced.

Concerning This:

That being said, what is the reason why I and others belong to the largest religion in the world?

The largest religion in the world?
It’s also the religion with the most divided sectors (Presbyterians,7-Days, Jehovah, Romans, etc) who believe in various translations of the same book!

You self said that the misguidance of Christians began over 700 years before Islam, that’s a big head start. Especially since most of the Christians of the Americas and Caribbean were almost forced to adopt the religion by their slave masters / owners / bosses, and just handed it down to their children and so on.

And now with freedom to practice their own religion and believe in what they choose to be right; they are now entering the Truth of Islam in hundreds.


And this....(some of your handy blasphemy):

But this deception is not strange to Allah for the Quran calls Allah a makr and the best of makr: But they (the Jews) were deceptive, and Allah was deceptive, for Allah is the best of deceivers (Wamakaroo wamakara Allahu waAllahu khayru al-makireena)! S. 3:54 (source lexicon for makr http://www.studyquran.co.uk/14_MIIM.htm). Or even Muhammad prayed to Allah that he would not deceive him but deceive for him "Alayya, Wamkur Li Wa La Tamkur ‘Alayya" http://sunnah.com/tirmidhi/48/182

It looks like as soon as you are challenged and realized that u are backed in a corner, u quickly run to GOOGLE to see what blasphemy on Islam u can find on the internet to quote here...

You can’t even interpret English properly but running to GOOGLE to find interpretations for ARABIC that are suitable for your baseless accusations.

The problem is that your source for you Islamic Teachings are misguided since there are hundreds of disguised “Islamic” websites whose only mission is to misguide the existing Islamic believers and to somehow increase hatred for Muslims by Christians:

Examples:
• answering-islam.org
• wikiislam.net
• thereligionofpeace.com
• inthenameofallah.org
• muslimhope.com

Just look at the names of the sites I mentioned... It was created to give the impression that it is an Islamic Site and they give their own meanings to scripture and hadith. And these are just SOME out of the hundreds of Blaspheming, Misleading, sites that your religion created.

The websites were also set in such a way that as soon as something Islamic is searched, these sites are the first to come up, to ensure the misleading of both Muslims and Christians alike.

But it doesn’t work since the people of Islam are guided to which sites are valid etc. There are always Islamic persons who check & validate the info on certain sites for authenticity and inform us in notice boards of mosques etc.

Although the Christians try to denounce Islam and Misguide Muslims via the internet through their various methods (the internet as an example), people are still entering into the religion in hundreds!

Christians who go beyond this personal hatred to muslims and make attempts to understand the actual script are the ones who LEAVE your ‘religion’ and ENTER Islam.

That’s the reason why so many Christians are converting to Islam!

And that’s why your religion is so afraid of its depleting numbers that they created all these sites, only to blaspheme and create misguidance amongst the muslims.


When u quoted this:

“But this deception is not strange to Allah for the Quran calls Allah a makr and the best of makr: But they (the Jews) were deceptive, and Allah was deceptive, for Allah is the best of deceivers (Wamakaroo wamakara Allahu waAllahu khayru al-makireena)! S. 3:54”

You took it word for word from a blaspheming Christian Site (http://www.answering-islam.org) that seeks to denounce Islam.
The author: Sam Shamoun has well been known to insult and denounce islam in numerous ways.

And you said that you got the meaning of ‘makr’ from (http://www.studyquran.co.uk).

A site that has the following DISCLAMIER:

“Disclaimer: All information contained within this site is correct to the best of our (the contributors) knowledge only and thus should not be taken as a fact.
One should always verify information and seek knowledge when possible.”

This site can’t even pronounce the Arabic Alphabet properly but you think that their translations are exact and true.

Then you stand hard and fast to what u read regardless of its authenticity or its source!

It’s interesting to see the way you took - part of a misinterpreted statement - from one part of an entire book - to give an explanation to another statement - from another part of the same book.
You then believe to your heart that it is true.....therefore you are truly misguided and ignorant to the truth.

You give the clear impression that you live in falsehood, ignorance, and blinded by your personal hatred towards muslims rather than any comprehension of actual scriptures.

You quote scripts from ‘Numbers’, ‘Psalms’, ‘John’, with your own biased translations and interpretations far from the truth. But strange... how does your “quotes” relate to what I was speaking about in Quran: Verse 4:156-159?

When I get some more time I’ll give you some scriptures from your own books to show how contradictory your claims are.

In order to get the TRUE meaning behind any statement, they sentences before and after must be read to know and understand the concept under which the statement was made.

Didn’t you learn that in Primary School Comprehension Techniques?

The before and after of the verse you quoted is as follows (from the Quran):


Quran 3:45

Behold! the angels said: "O Mary! Allah giveth thee glad tidings of a Word from Him: his name will be Christ Jesus, the son of Mary, held in honour in this world and the Hereafter and of (the company of) those nearest to Allah;

Quran 3:46

"He shall speak to the people in childhood and in maturity. And he shall be (of the company) of the righteous."


Quran 3:47

She said: "O my Lord! How shall I have a son when no man hath touched me?" He said: "Even so: Allah createth what He willeth: When He hath decreed a plan, He but saith to it, 'Be,' and it is!


Quran 3:48

"And Allah will teach him the Book and Wisdom, the Law and the Gospel,


Quran 3:49

"And (appoint him) an apostle to the Children of Israel, (with this message): "'I have come to you, with a Sign from your Lord, in that I make for you out of clay, as it were, the figure of a bird, and breathe into it, and it becomes a bird by Allah's leave: And I heal those born blind, and the lepers, and I quicken the dead, by Allah's leave; and I declare to you what ye eat, and what ye store in your houses. Surely therein is a Sign for you if ye did believe;


Quran 3:50

"(I have come to you), to attest the Law which was before me. And to make lawful to you part of what was (Before) forbidden to you; I have come to you with a Sign from your Lord. So fear Allah, and obey me."


Quran 3:51

"It is Allah Who is my Lord and your Lord; then worship Him. This is a Way that is straight."


Quran 3:52

When Jesus found Unbelief on their part He said: "Who will be My helpers to (the work of) Allah?" Said the disciples: "We are Allah's helpers: We believe in Allah, and do thou bear witness that we are Muslims.


Quran 3:53

"Our Lord! we believe in what Thou hast revealed, and we follow the Apostle; then write us down among those who bear witness."


Quran 3:54

And (the unbelievers) plotted and planned, and Allah too planned, and the best of planners is Allah.


Quran 3:55

Behold! Allah said: "O Jesus! I will take thee and raise thee to Myself and clear thee (of the falsehoods) of those who blaspheme; I will make those who follow thee superior to those who reject faith, to the Day of Resurrection: Then shall ye all return unto me, and I will judge between you of the matters wherein ye dispute.




Concering your other Section of Misguidance:

So consider that for Christian, they understand from Islam
1] Christianity is Allah's evil plot against them
2] Satan - the father of all lies (John 8:44) appears to have the same attributes as Allah - the best of all deceivers (3:54)
3] How can Islamists be sure that Allah is not giving them the same deception that he claims to give Christians?
4] As if omniscience was not attribute of God, Allah is assisted by Muhammad on the Day of Judgement as his intercession for Muslims that have been living while he was dead, would inform Allah's decision. This is directly opposed to the role prophesied in Isaiah 53:12 and fulfilled in Jesus Christ who now sits at the right hand of the Father as Lord as it says 600 years before Muhammad saw himself in that role:
Hebrews 7:25 Therefore He is able also to save forever those who draw near to God through Him, since He always lives to make intercession for them.

RESPONSE:

(1) Christianity – what is this ‘Christianity’ really?

• Did the Bible tell you people that ‘Christianity’ is the name of your religion or is it what you people just decided?

• Did it derive from your obsession with Christ?

• Because a large group of powerful people of a certain era decided to manipulate the original book of Allah (Bible) for their own gain of power, control, wealth (eg. in Roman times), you conclude that it is Allah’s evil plot?

• It is just mere ignorance of that people to seek out and accept the truth.

• You disbelieve in the sender of the message – but you worship the messenger – then claimed that the messenger is the creator of the message and creator of the worlds but allow himself to be embarrassed, tortured, and killed just to teach his own creation something?

• And now you want muslims to comment on “Christianity” (a made up religion), being Allah’s evil plot........ if you made it up, interpreted what you wanted, rewrote the original book, created a religion and gave it your own name then it sounds like you all are plotting against yourselves!

I’ll say it again...WOW!


(2) Satan being the father of all lies is a somewhat accurate statement since wrong doings in surrounded by his influence etc...

Now, you saying he has the same attributes as Allah due to your own misconception, misguidance, mistranslation and purposeful misinterpretation of original script.
If Christians believe that hard and fast, then so be it to them. It’s their own fault for not seeking out the knowledge from accurate sources!

(3) This is just relating to (2) since your own misguidance has caused upon yourselves, a long road of deceit brought upon by your own ignorance.


JUST TO NOTE:

All the claims that Christians state that muslims worship Muhammad, but how is it that the Holy book states that Islam is the name of the religion and NOT Muhammadanism?

Since the term ‘Christianity’ doesn’t even exist to a muslim then how can it be ‘Allah’s evil plot’?


(4) Omniscience - is the capacity (of God) to know everything that there is to know.

Of course that is an attribute of God, but the Prophet Muhammad only “intercedes” in God’s questioning of man as to their deeds.
Although God obviously knows, he questions, so that the individual realizes what he did or did not do.
And the individual will see the Prophet, of whose teachings they followed, standing with them confirming the good deeds, only as a sign of good faith and support for the now timid individual facing the one true Almighty God.

The Quran also states that Jesus will return to the earth soon before the final hour and that he is close to the throne of god.

Like AdamB said: “Get over this intercession thing and move on!”...


It looks as though your AVATAR is a true replica of your journey through life...

Wandering aimlessly through life with a head filled with misguided teachings and never stopping to realize or understand what anyone else is saying!

[megadoc1]

New_SPECIES do yourself and us a favour read from page 70 ..save us another hundred page explaining to you what you could have learnt by simply reading former posts

[New_SPECIES]

^ you read http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Depiction_of_Jesus

I swear by my God that I never read it before you mentioned it!

I never refer to wiki for religious guidance / interpretations / translations / expalanations etc, since it is well known that wiki is biased against muslims.

It just goes to show how common the thinking is for me (and thousands of others) to assume the exact same thing that was posted on a site as a concern!

[New_SPECIES]

New_SPECIES do yourself and us a favour read from page 70 ..save us another hundred page explaining to you what you could have learnt by simply reading former posts

Like I said time and time again... of course this thread is repititous... I just responding to Habit7.

If everyone reads from page (1) no one will ask another question!

[megadoc1]

New_SPECIES do yourself and us a favour read from page 70 ..save us another hundred page explaining to you what you could have learnt by simply reading former posts

Like I said time and time again... of course this thread is repititous... I just responding to Habit7.

If everyone reads from page (1) no one will ask another question!

my point was that you are responding with stuff that was refuted and corrected over and over, hundreds of pages ago
your ill informed arguments have been proven erroneous a very long time now!

I guess the problem is worst than I thought,you will get a response from habit7, then the next christian you meet you will ask them the same question again..and so on and so on....its clear that you have no intention to learn or maybe your worldview has you stuck that way...but carry on ...don't get offended if habit7 quotes himself ..lol

[megadoc1]

yuh know what ....maybe you might be a lil more honest than Adam and might not resort to BOT responses, so stick around lets see how things play out

[bumpie]

jesus,abrahim,moses,muhammed etc......those were prophets an mesengers sent by god the creater of this universe
an everything in it's contents.

[New_SPECIES]

New_SPECIES do yourself and us a favour read from page 70 ..save us another hundred page explaining to you what you could have learnt by simply reading former posts

Like I said time and time again... of course this thread is repititous... I just responding to Habit7.

If everyone reads from page (1) no one will ask another question!

well I guess the problem is worst than I thought,you will get a response from habit7, then the next christian you meet you will ask them the same question again..and so on and so on....its clear that you have no intention to learn or maybe your worldview has you stuck that way...carry on ...dont get dissapointed if habit quotes himself ..lol

I don’t care about getting a response from Habit7 because like other persons were saying on Page 70:

“we prefer to no argue on this topic since everybody has their own belief and will continue with it regardless of what other people’s opinion are”

I am just showing Habit7 an Islamic point of view, since he is slamming Islam with baseless accusations.

I am not trying to change anyone’s mind especially Habit7.

Since almost everyone with a point on this forum has it written in stone, the purpose of the thread is really for people to search for knowledge on their religion (that they probably did not have before) when they are faced with questions...

I have the knowledge but not much time to post answers, that is why I take so long to respond to others.

[megadoc1]

I don’t care about getting a response from Habit7

typical muslim

because like other persons were saying on Page 70:

“we prefer to no argue on this topic since everybody has their own belief and will continue with it regardless of what other people’s opinion are”

you missed my point ! I simply ask you to read FROM there

I am just showing Habit7 an Islamic point of view, since he is slamming Islam with baseless accusations.

but your very response has been shown to be flawed and baseless hundreds of pages ago, over and over...there hasn't been a Muslim on here that can logically prove his claims against the christian doctrine If you think you are capable...by all means step right up

I am not trying to change anyone’s mind especially Habit7.

we know! you just want to have your say but still claiming to want discussion

Since almost everyone with a point on this forum has it written in stone, the purpose of the thread is really for people to search for knowledge on their religion (that they probably did not have before) when they are faced with questions...

you now come and want to tell us what this ched is /was about ? look! go to page one.

I have the knowledge but not much time to post answers, that is why I take so long to respond to others.

take your time, we here over 4 years now,just take your time ...its way better than a knee jerk response ..as I say I hope when pressed you dont resort to BOT responses and other stuff like adamb

[AdamB]

yuh know what ....maybe you might be a lil more honest than Adam and might not resort to BOT responses, so stick around lets see how things play out

A case of SATAN CORRECTING SIN!!

Deaf, dumb and blind...they will not return to the (correct / straight) path of (Oneness of GOD).

[megadoc1]

how can you blame them? the greatest deceiver(allah )decieved them

[AdamB]

Nay, they deceive their own selves.

Doc, is habit7 your new guru? You jump on his bandwagon! He seeks to insult Allah, yet Allah is the same GOD of the bible! Ask Jesus...or any arabic speaking christian or rocknrolla (lol).

[DFC]

Adamb yuh know anybody working bmobile? (wanna get the samsung note)

help a man out nah.

and i will convert.

[megadoc1]

Nay, they deceive their own selves.

the quran clearly states that alah is the greatest of deceivers it also demonstrates this by saying that allah , only made it to look like they crucified Jesus...so who is to blame for what the disciples believed ,preached and died for afterwards? why allah chose to betray those who carefully listened to his prophet Jesus?

Doc, is habit7 your new guru?

what this have to do with anything?

You jump on his bandwagon!

really? take a look back from about page 150 and you would see that he echoed much of what I said before just that he did it alot better than me

He seeks to insult Allah

nope I dont think so! this is a discussion and we are using the information before us to , wrt the Qur'an and the bible resectively

yet Allah is the same GOD of the bible!Ask Jesus...or any arabic speaking christian or rocknrolla (lol).

no! they both contradict each other and you know this, thats why you think the source that disagrees with yours was some how corrupted tae a read any where between 150 and 300 pges you will see my posts on this ..they are not the same God
the bible say God is not a liar the Qur'an says allah is the greatest deceiver how that could e the same person?

[nareshseep]