Petrotrin refinery shut down

[The_Honourable]

Roget probably going and pray as usual. Butler would have light up the refinery.

[Ben_spanna]

Well it all boils down to- enjoy what the majority voted for!

Trinidad and Tobago tuh reach sh1thole status by 2020!

[sMASH]

this majority thing not working out for the better.

[Ben_spanna]

ANyone who working petrotrin and voted RED.. eet gooood for ya a55! tek that in allyuh pweffens!
hopefully you will know and think properly next time before voting...…..

[neilsingh100]

According to Lisa Ali (Head of Transition), two new companies (E&P and Terminal Operations) will be launched tomorrow and jobs will be advertised over weekend.

[Joshie23]

According to Lisa Ali (Head of Transition), two new companies (E&P and Terminal Operations) will be launched tomorrow and jobs will be advertised over weekend.

Interesting. Source? I, however, expect to see most of the people I used to see in my community in Petrotrin coveralls, wearing PPE for the new E&P/Terminalling companies-except for the old boys, of course. They'll be counting their millions from their 'enhanced packages' and what not. I mean, we've all heard how terrible Petrotrin is to work in and the salaries are ridiculous..no one would want to work for exorbitant salaries while doing nothing, right? So the application response from external people should be pretty poor such that only people who knew how terrible it was to be inside there, would have belly enough to go back...right? No one from the outside, would or should want a job in Petrotrin 2.0...right?

[sMASH]

It was on TV.. So it legit.

[tr1ad]

According to Lisa Ali (Head of Transition), two new companies (E&P and Terminal Operations) will be launched tomorrow and jobs will be advertised over weekend.

Interesting. Source? I, however, expect to see most of the people I used to see in my community in Petrotrin coveralls, wearing PPE for the new E&P/Terminalling companies-except for the old boys, of course. They'll be counting their millions from their 'enhanced packages' and what not. I mean, we've all heard how terrible Petrotrin is to work in and the salaries are ridiculous..no one would want to work for exorbitant salaries while doing nothing, right? So the application response from external people should be pretty poor such that only people who knew how terrible it was to be inside there, would have belly enough to go back...right? No one from the outside, would or should want a job in Petrotrin 2.0...right?

working under a poorly managed company? naaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

[Pointman-IA]

I am going to sell gyros, doubles and accra outside the new petroleum company.

[neilsingh100]

According to Lisa Ali (Head of Transition), two new companies (E&P and Terminal Operations) will be launched tomorrow and jobs will be advertised over weekend.

Interesting. Source? I, however, expect to see most of the people I used to see in my community in Petrotrin coveralls, wearing PPE for the new E&P/Terminalling companies-except for the old boys, of course. They'll be counting their millions from their 'enhanced packages' and what not. I mean, we've all heard how terrible Petrotrin is to work in and the salaries are ridiculous..no one would want to work for exorbitant salaries while doing nothing, right? So the application response from external people should be pretty poor such that only people who knew how terrible it was to be inside there, would have belly enough to go back...right? No one from the outside, would or should want a job in Petrotrin 2.0...right?

The source was an interview with Lisa Ali on the CNC3 morning show. It will be mostly terminated Petrotrin employees reapplying. I doubt anyone in the private sector would want to work there since salaries would not be as competitive as private sector from what I understand. This was designed to get former employees that are needed for the two new companies to take a pay cut and get rid of the union.

[hydroep]

This whole thing about castrating the union may give management some breathing room in the short-term. Now, I'm no Industrial Relations Expert, but what is stopping the new hires from (re-)joining the OWTU? — unless of course the company attaches some implicit penalty for doing so.

And once they build up their numbers, wouldn't Petrotrin 2.0 find itself in the same old khaki pants?...

Every worker has the right to join a trade union and this is guaranteed by Section 71 of the Industrial Relations Act 1972:

71. Every worker as between himself, his employer and co workers shall have the following rights, that is to say:

(a) the right to be a member of any trade union or any number of trade unions of his choice;

(b) the right not to be a member of any trade union or other organisation of workers or to refuse to be a member of any particular trade union or other organisation of workers;

(c) where he is a member of a trade union, the right, subject to this Act, to take part in the activities of the trade union (including any activities as, or with a view to becoming an official of the trade union) and (if appointed or elected) to hold office as such an official.

The penalties on an employer for discriminating or victimising a worker for trade union membership or activities iscovered by Section 42 of the Industrial Relations Act:

42. (1) An employer shall not dismiss a worker, or adversely affect his employment, or alter his position to his prejudice, by reason only of the circumstances that the worker—

(a) is an officer, delegate or member of a trade union;

(b) is entitled to the benefit of an order or award under this Act;

(c) has appeared as a witness or has given any evidence in a proceeding under this Act; or

(d) has absented himself from work without leave after he has made an application for leave for the purpose of carrying out his duties as an officer or delegate of a trade union and the leave has been unreasonably refused or withheld.

(2) An employer shall not—

(a) make the employment of a worker subject to the condition that he shall not join a union or shall relinquish trade union membership;

(b) dismiss or otherwise prejudice a worker by reason of union membership or because of participation in union activities outside working hours;

(c) with intent to dissuade or prevent the worker from becoming such officer, delegate or member or from so appearing or giving evidence, threaten to dismiss a worker, or to affect adversely his employment, or to alter his position to his prejudice by reason of the circumstance that the worker is, or proposes to become, an officer, delegate or member of a trade union or that the worker proposes to appear as a witness or to give evidence in any proceeding under this Act.

(3) An employer who contravenes subsection (1) or (2) is liable on summary conviction to a fine of ten thousand dollars and to imprisonment for one year; and the Magistrate making the order for conviction may also order that the worker be reimbursed any wages lost by him and direct that, notwithstanding any rule of law to the contrary, the worker be reinstated in his former position or in a similar position.

(4) In any proceedings for an offence under subsection (3), if all the facts and circumstances constituting the offence other than any specific intent, are proved, the defendant may be convicted unless he proves that he did not have the specific intent in question.

(5) Subject to subsection (3), nothing in this section shall be construed so as to compel any employer, in the absence of agreement to the contrary, to pay or compensate any worker for any time not spent in performance of the duties of his employment.

http://www.workersunion.org.tt/winning-for-workers-01/employers/right-to-join-a-union

[neilsingh100]

This whole thing about castrating the union may give management some breathing room in the short-term. Now, I'm no Industrial Relations Expert, but what is stopping the new hires from (re-)joining the OWTU? — unless of course the company attaches some implicit penalty for doing so.

And once they build up their numbers, wouldn't Petrotrin 2.0 find itself in the same old khaki pants?...

It would take a while for that to happen but they hoping to build a culture in the new companies where employees feel like they don't need to join a union but for this to happen it needs to be run like a private sector company. I don't think you will have a lot of employees wanting to join the OWTU after Petrotrin is shutdown. I see unions like OWTU, CWU, PSA etc dying if they cannot change with the times.

[gastly369]

I am going to sell gyros, doubles and accra outside the new petroleum company.

Make space...ah joining yuh

[car]

According to Lisa Ali (Head of Transition), two new companies (E&P and Terminal Operations) will be launched tomorrow and jobs will be advertised over weekend.

Interesting. Source? I, however, expect to see most of the people I used to see in my community in Petrotrin coveralls, wearing PPE for the new E&P/Terminalling companies-except for the old boys, of course. They'll be counting their millions from their 'enhanced packages' and what not. I mean, we've all heard how terrible Petrotrin is to work in and the salaries are ridiculous..no one would want to work for exorbitant salaries while doing nothing, right? So the application response from external people should be pretty poor such that only people who knew how terrible it was to be inside there, would have belly enough to go back...right? No one from the outside, would or should want a job in Petrotrin 2.0...right?

The source was an interview with Lisa Ali on the CNC3 morning show. It will be mostly terminated Petrotrin employees reapplying. I doubt anyone in the private sector would want to work there since salaries would not be as competitive as private sector from what I understand. This was designed to get former employees that are needed for the two new companies to take a pay cut and get rid of the union.

Salaries going to be 1/3-1/2 of the norm PETROTRIN salary. Benefits would only be a reduced medical and pension plan. No more.
Jobs will be mostly south in point fortin and Santa Flora. Outlying areas too.
Doubt much PETROTRIN employees going to apply as they are being treated badly with this restructure. New company may not want old employees as they may bring their old ways. Why you think they didn’t give the PETROTRIN employees first preference and then open the jobs to the outside?

[Pointman-IA]

According to Lisa Ali (Head of Transition), two new companies (E&P and Terminal Operations) will be launched tomorrow and jobs will be advertised over weekend.

Interesting. Source? I, however, expect to see most of the people I used to see in my community in Petrotrin coveralls, wearing PPE for the new E&P/Terminalling companies-except for the old boys, of course. They'll be counting their millions from their 'enhanced packages' and what not. I mean, we've all heard how terrible Petrotrin is to work in and the salaries are ridiculous..no one would want to work for exorbitant salaries while doing nothing, right? So the application response from external people should be pretty poor such that only people who knew how terrible it was to be inside there, would have belly enough to go back...right? No one from the outside, would or should want a job in Petrotrin 2.0...right?

The source was an interview with Lisa Ali on the CNC3 morning show. It will be mostly terminated Petrotrin employees reapplying. I doubt anyone in the private sector would want to work there since salaries would not be as competitive as private sector from what I understand. This was designed to get former employees that are needed for the two new companies to take a pay cut and get rid of the union.

Salaries going to be 1/3-1/2 of the norm PETROTRIN salary. Benefits would only be a reduced medical and pension plan. No more.
Jobs will be mostly south in point fortin and Santa Flora. Outlying areas too.
Doubt much PETROTRIN employees going to apply as they are being treated badly with this restructure. New company may not want old employees as they may bring their old ways. Why you think they didn’t give the PETROTRIN employees first preference and then open the jobs to the outside?

No palos.
The renumeration package should be based on experience, qualifications and work ethics.
Not based on "I have a party card syndrome".
The company seems to have suffered from the stone age kind of thinking.

[The_Honourable]

The full interview is here mentioning the opening of the two new companies tomorrow.

[Joshie23]

According to Lisa Ali (Head of Transition), two new companies (E&P and Terminal Operations) will be launched tomorrow and jobs will be advertised over weekend.

Interesting. Source? I, however, expect to see most of the people I used to see in my community in Petrotrin coveralls, wearing PPE for the new E&P/Terminalling companies-except for the old boys, of course. They'll be counting their millions from their 'enhanced packages' and what not. I mean, we've all heard how terrible Petrotrin is to work in and the salaries are ridiculous..no one would want to work for exorbitant salaries while doing nothing, right? So the application response from external people should be pretty poor such that only people who knew how terrible it was to be inside there, would have belly enough to go back...right? No one from the outside, would or should want a job in Petrotrin 2.0...right?

The source was an interview with Lisa Ali on the CNC3 morning show. It will be mostly terminated Petrotrin employees reapplying. I doubt anyone in the private sector would want to work there since salaries would not be as competitive as private sector from what I understand. This was designed to get former employees that are needed for the two new companies to take a pay cut and get rid of the union.

See that's the thing. You've proven my point. The problem most of the public had wasn't the salaries. It was that it wasn't their salaries and we saw it right here on 2NR, on Facebook and it was further propagated by political forces, even though said forces stated that this issue wasn't political. There was no vendetta against the OWTU. Even Espinet said so. The PM eventually outed and echoed your statement, in that the reason for shutting the company down was essentially to flush out the union because of their intractable position.

I've been critical of the OWTU and their tactics and fine, we've said they could have saved their members by suggesting a pay cut along with other measures. But one must ask, why didn't the Board suggest same? They've said that they considered all the options and shutting down entirely, to rehire some people to carry out part of the operation that they're currently in the process of shutting down, was the most viable option after violating the MoA. Fait accompli. Is it not safe to say that the Board and Gov't have an intractable position as well? The numbers are jumbled, from those to be retrenched to the size of their packages. Then the PM reveals that this whole charade was to firetruck the union. And now, the very reason why everyone wanted to get into Petrotrin will be the very reason why a lot of people will run in the opposite direction. Trinidad isn't a real place.

[sMASH]

as i said before, this move is killing a few birds with one big stone.
the removal of the union is also one. TSTT is trying to move like that and all, with their amplia reshuffling.

true, noting could stop any worker from joining any union. but that is officially. unofficially, they may just take a lot of blue boys from up the road to run the plants, cause they are yellow bellied and fraid management.

its hard to get a union as the majority representative.



and the problem with petrotrin was not the salaries, at least not workers' salaries. the upper regions of the structure would have been the problem. but the major problem was too many mega projects with too little ROI..
like the brian lara stadium, the highway to nowhere, the rapid rail feasiblity study, the NAPA, SAPA, PAPA, and TAPA.

[Mr President]

its hard to get a union as the majority representative.

52% membership would be required to facilitate bargaining power

we've said they could have saved their members by suggesting a pay cut along with other measures. But one must ask, why didn't the Board suggest same?

Petrotrin has a policy problem that is decades old and stubborn to change. A mass overhaul of these archaic procedures and practices would be necessary to usher in a profitable business model. The main suggestion seems to be to cut salaries..Even if 5000 employees took a $15,000 wage cut this would still amount to less than half of the $2B annual hemorrhage.

lunch

[alfa]

So for all who claim Petrotrin workers getting the best severance package and millions of dollars this a letter of termination collected by my friend. She made 10 years temporary and 5 years permanent and going home with 68 thousand dollars. There is a small backpay yet to come for 2011 to 2014

[ProtonPowder]

Hopefully those already terminated will get their severances, backpay and vacation buyouts in a timely fashion, rather than being caught in limbo for months or even years.

[lalloboy101]

Lisa ali was our former hr, a no nonsense person. She scared the hell out a me. She has vast experience like this, forming joint ventures and reorganizing. Last I spoke to her , she was the VP of hr for bp south America

[tr1ad]

So for all who claim Petrotrin workers getting the best severance package and millions of dollars this a letter of termination collected by my friend. She made 10 years temporary and 5 years permanent and going home with 68 thousand dollars. There is a small backpay yet to come for 2011 to 2014

Tell her show you the full letter...

3 years calculating to 68k for that period ...
Then there's back pay, vacation leave etc
According to the letter... Do the math (or read again)

So either she eh sure when she start, or is misinformation spreading again

[vaiostation]

Recruitment ads coming out soon...

[vaiostation]

So for all who claim Petrotrin workers getting the best severance package and millions of dollars this a letter of termination collected by my friend. She made 10 years temporary and 5 years permanent and going home with 68 thousand dollars. There is a small backpay yet to come for 2011 to 2014

Tell her show you the full letter...

3 years calculating to 68k for that period ...
Then there's back pay, vacation leave etc
According to the letter... Do the math (or read again)

So either she eh sure when she start, or is misinformation spreading again

I've got a realative that worked there who retired recently. He had about 12 years temporary and 8 permanent. Got about 2 mil. Pension about 8g's.
I think a lot has to do with the rank the person retires at.

Have a family friend who is a supervisor in petro. With about 20+ yrs permanent. He got about 4mil with pension about 16g's.

All this is before tax.

[De Dragon]

Lisa ali was our former hr, a no nonsense person. She scared the hell out a me. She has vast experience like this, forming joint ventures and reorganizing. Last I spoke to her , she was the VP of hr for bp south America

She's come a long way since Laboratory Head at PPSL.

[Pointman-IA]

So for all who claim Petrotrin workers getting the best severance package and millions of dollars this a letter of termination collected by my friend. She made 10 years temporary and 5 years permanent and going home with 68 thousand dollars. There is a small backpay yet to come for 2011 to 2014

Tell her show you the full letter...

3 years calculating to 68k for that period ...
Then there's back pay, vacation leave etc
According to the letter... Do the math (or read again)

So either she eh sure when she start, or is misinformation spreading again

I've got a realative that worked there who retired recently. He had about 12 years temporary and 8 permanent. Got about 2 mil. Pension about 8g's.
I think a lot has to do with the rank the person retires at.

Have a family friend who is a supervisor in petro. With about 20+ yrs permanent. He got about 4mil with pension about 16g's.

All this is before tax.

12 years temporary and 8 years permanent?

Did he buy back pensionable years?

[sMASH]

Lisa ali was our former hr, a no nonsense person. She scared the hell out a me. She has vast experience like this, forming joint ventures and reorganizing. Last I spoke to her , she was the VP of hr for bp south America

She's come a long way since Laboratory Head at PPSL.

PPSL?
it was PPSL that was the consultant engineering firm for WGTL.

[Joshie23]

So for all who claim Petrotrin workers getting the best severance package and millions of dollars this a letter of termination collected by my friend. She made 10 years temporary and 5 years permanent and going home with 68 thousand dollars. There is a small backpay yet to come for 2011 to 2014

Tell her show you the full letter...

3 years calculating to 68k for that period ...
Then there's back pay, vacation leave etc
According to the letter... Do the math (or read again)

So either she eh sure when she start, or is misinformation spreading again

Bro, even still. The letter states the individual has 15 days vacation leave. Do the math then/or read again. Surely that vacation leave isn't going to stretch the $68k very far. Fine, the backpay might be cool, but it's still a far cry from the million dollar payouts that were purported. Which I think is salt to the wounds, concerning the fact that the Gov't would sensationalize the whole thing for their justification.

I've got a realative that worked there who retired recently. He had about 12 years temporary and 8 permanent. Got about 2 mil. Pension about 8g's.
I think a lot has to do with the rank the person retires at.

Have a family friend who is a supervisor in petro. With about 20+ yrs permanent. He got about 4mil with pension about 16g's.

All this is before tax.

Did you actually see the letters? Or is this hearsay? For starters, apparently temporary years aren't counted for severance or retirement. When people are made permanent, once they're older than 29 (to qualify for the 31.3 years for full benefits) they have the option to 'buy' the years that will be required to get their full pension, but only up to a certain amount. So for your 'relative' to take home $2MM at retirement, starting work at apparently 40 years, if they retired recently with (12+8) years service, 8 years pensionable service at that, lol...I also have a supervisor friend, that's getting about $1.8MM before tax and $14k in pension after about 33 years service. And yes, I saw his letter. With the breakdown of the (salary x 5) + ((salary x 1.25) x 14) + ((salary x 1.5) x 14) as per his collective agreement. So $4MM severance after 20 years..again..lol. Let's do some algebra. Assuming 25 years service, let 'a' represent the monthly salary and use the collective agreement structure. (5a) + ((1.25a) x 14) + ((1.5a) x 6) = $4,000,000. Which means 31.5a = $4,000,000. Therefore, a = $126,984.13. So your supervisor family friend was making in the vicinity of around $127k a month? And my understanding is that backpay, vacation leave, etc. hasn't been calculated or shown in the letters/packages yet, so that $4MM is from salary only...lol. Which then leads to pension, which is calculated (iirc) as 2/3 of your last confirmed salary, which would be around $85k. Not the $16k he'll be getting. So either Petrotin is robbing your friend big time or we'll call it a typo.

Recruitment ads coming out soon...

You leaving your MNC to go Petro 2.0 though? Best of luck.

[tr1ad]

Not saying the "friend" will get a million; but simple as stated above temp years wouldn't be calculated and also depending on the role / position (which means monthly salary) is all situational ...