The Religion Discussion

[Habit7]

Apart from that erroneous outworking of racism, Darwin based his theory on the claims of the simple cell, the future discovery of numerous transitional fossils, lack of knowledge of the Cambrian Explosion, homology and all life being explained by his Tree of Life diagram.
All which we know today is wrong.

yes scientists can be wrong, they also have no problem saying they are wrong. Infact the scientific method and peer review ensures that wrong information is not perpetuated.

Well if the theory of evolution came out today and we realised that the premise for the theory is errant based on empirical evidence, wont same the scientific method shoot it down? So then why use this faulty theory as yardstick for the truth of the Bible?

you mean like it stating the earth is ~6000 years old and dinosaurs and man roamed the earth together?

You love to keep using theories as measure for absolute truth. Well if you find that incredulous, measure that up with the belief that inanimate objects can become animate, on their own. To me that is not only more incredulous but according to your personal vocabulary, that is faith, because there is no empirical evidence for it.

Except that he was wrong. Many other races excel today.

There is only one race.

But I know you and I disagree with Hitler very strongly. I disagree with him because of my biblical ethical standard, on what basis do you disagree with him?

I disagree with him based on my personal ethical standard. Each person has their own personal ethical standard: some people think it is unethical to drink and drive while others think it is ok and do it every weekend. Does the Bible tell you to not drink and drive?

Yes.

But if morality is subjective as it is your "personal ethical standard" how can your call Hitler's genocide wrong? In his "personal ethical standard" he was right. Your ethical preference compared to Hitler is no different than your favourite ice cream flavour preference compared to Hitler. Who is right?

We might as well blame the writers of the Bible for every horror against humanity that was claimed to have been done in the name of Christianity, however misconstrued.

Well not quite, because not only does the Bible not advocate any horrors against humanity, it is the standard by which we judge horrors against humanity and deem them to be morally wrong.

that is entirely your opinion.

No it isnt, either the Bible advocates horrors against humanity or it doesn't. My opinion doesnt change that.

AdamB claims that would be attributed to the Qur'an and Hadith. What makes him wrong and you right?

Well you cant speak for AdamB. The Quran advocates spousal abuse and religious genocide. Both Hitler and Muhammad called for the elimination of Jews

[RBphoto]

If you don't believe that the bible was written in England by a bunch of monks just to Please the ruling class... just consider.... where the fack Jesus found guys named Andrew, Peter, James, John, Simon, Thomas, Matthew and Bartholomew.... In the Middle East?

[Habit7]

If you don't believe that the bible was written in England by a bunch of monks just to Please the ruling class... just consider.... where the fack Jesus found guys named Andrew, Peter, James, John, Simon, Thomas, Matthew and Bartholomew.... In the Middle East?

This is the reason why some churches in the Western world are failing in their biblical mandate. They preach Jesus as a cosmic bellhop and not as a historical figure, preceded by accurate prophecy who died for the sin of those who would believe in Him as He is both God and man.

If only they would fulfill their mandate, less questions like this would arise.

[RBphoto]

Eh?

[Habit7]

Let me leave you with a point of departure. Could it be that the Bible influenced England rather than, England influencing the Bible?

[New_SPECIES]

If you don't believe that the bible was written in England by a bunch of monks just to Please the ruling class... just consider.... where the fack Jesus found guys named Andrew, Peter, James, John, Simon, Thomas, Matthew and Bartholomew.... In the Middle East?

This is the reason why some churches in the Western world are failing in their biblical mandate. They preach Jesus as a cosmic bellhop and not as a historical figure, preceded by accurate prophecy who died for the sin of those who would believe in Him as He is both God and man.

If only they would fulfill their mandate, less questions like this would arise.

Eh?

Eh? X 2


I thought allyuh say he is "the son of god".... or something like that!

Now he is God?

[Habit7]

The son existed in perfect union with himself except before his birth and after his death. After his death he ceased to exist as the son.
GOD didn't have attributes before this? Also if HE did, was unable to express them / make them apparent?
He ascended to the right hand of himself, so he has 2 right hands?
Why worship the MAN component of GOD? Was not the purpose of the man part was that he was to be killed to save the sins of man?
Megadoc, what's the RC evidence for worship of mary and saints? Remember Mary is not part of the Trinity. Are Saints worshipped because the Pope says so? (In the hope that one day he too will be worshipped)
For the umteenth time, muslims don't worship Muhammad, get with the programme...

No, His human nature died, his Divine nature did not.

Yes some of these attributes are displayed before time within the Trinity (love, holiness, righteousness), after time displayed to angels (sovereignty, wrath) and to us (forgiveness, loving kindness, love). God can create for His purposes and His glory, who are we to question.

The person of the Son ascended to the right hand of the person of the Father. If I am correct, I believe Muhammad parroted this also as your Islamic sister quoted before from the Quran, aren't you aware?

It is impossible to worship only the divine nature of Jesus. Daniel 7:13-14 prophesies of a God coming as man and ppl worshiping him. The Disciples worshiped Him as God while they saw Him in His human nature John 20:28. The doctrine of the hypostatic union teaches that Jesus is both fully human and fully divine, that there is no mixture or dilution of either nature, and that He is one united Person, forever (Philippians 2:5-11)

You can address your questions to megadoc when you see him. But likewise to bad Maryology, Islamists seek intercession from Muhammad. Which other prophet do you appeal to talk to Allah for you?

If it is wrong for Roman Catholics to supplicate to dead saints and the deceased earthly mother of Jesus, what makes it right to supplicate to your prophet?

[rocknrolla]

ppl have trouble with all this cuz the listening to every pastor on the floor and the general concensus. ask pastor a question about a certain contradiction and the pastor says "the lord works in mysterious ways".. they take that with satisfaction and make a hefty donation.. lols.

someone come with true revelation and its looked upon as almost worthless. such is the creature of man yes...

Christ dying on the cross is symbolic of the death of the EGO. the FLESH...only! his spirit is eternal..

the spirit is of God and the spirit is God! The flesh is a creation of the spirit as it is the spirit is responsible for structuring the body and all forms of genetic manipulation and growth.

[Habit7]

turbotursty you moving Deepak Chopra?

[rocknrolla]

why he coming to trinidad or something?

[Habit7]

so they say

[rocknrolla]

well considering i now hearing about it.. i really dont know. i would be interested in the spiritual aspects of healing and health, but when i really get to that id not only study his books but the books he studied from ,) i like to go to the source.

[Habit7]

I could have figured you would want to go, you both share similar views.

[rocknrolla]

dont know.. never followed up on him really.. had to google him just now to remember who he was. who knows.. maybe ill research him and realise he has attained samadhi. id be much interested to go in that case.

[rocknrolla]

in fact if i came to that conclusion, i probably wouldnt miss it for the world ,)

[New_SPECIES]

The son existed in perfect union with himself except before his birth and after his death. After his death he ceased to exist as the son.
GOD didn't have attributes before this? Also if HE did, was unable to express them / make them apparent?
He ascended to the right hand of himself, so he has 2 right hands?
Why worship the MAN component of GOD? Was not the purpose of the man part was that he was to be killed to save the sins of man?
Megadoc, what's the RC evidence for worship of mary and saints? Remember Mary is not part of the Trinity. Are Saints worshipped because the Pope says so? (In the hope that one day he too will be worshipped)
For the umteenth time, muslims don't worship Muhammad, get with the programme...

No, His human nature died, his Divine nature did not.

Yes some of these attributes are displayed before time within the Trinity (love, holiness, righteousness), after time displayed to angels (sovereignty, wrath) and to us (forgiveness, loving kindness, love). God can create for His purposes and His glory, who are we to question.

The person of the Son ascended to the right hand of the person of the Father. If I am correct, I believe Muhammad parroted this also as your Islamic sister quoted before from the Quran, aren't you aware?

It is impossible to worship only the divine nature of Jesus. Daniel 7:13-14 prophesies of a God coming as man and ppl worshiping him. The Disciples worshiped Him as God while they saw Him in His human nature John 20:28. The doctrine of the hypostatic union teaches that Jesus is both fully human and fully divine, that there is no mixture or dilution of either nature, and that He is one united Person, forever (Philippians 2:5-11)

You can address your questions to megadoc when you see him. But likewise to bad Maryology, Islamists seek intercession from Muhammad. Which other prophet do you appeal to talk to Allah for you?
If it is wrong for Roman Catholics to supplicate to dead saints and the deceased earthly mother of Jesus, what makes it right to supplicate to your prophet?

As far as I know... Muslims don’t want prophets to appeal to Allah for them. The pray directly to God (Arabic Named: Allah). And they pray in the name of God and not in the name of anyone or anything else.

"People of the Book, go not beyond the bounds in your religion, and say not as to God but the truth. The Messiah, Jesus son of Mary, was only the Messenger of God, and His Word that He committed to Mary, and a Spirit from Him. So believe in God and His Messengers, and say not, 'Three.' Refrain; better is it for you. God is only one God. Glory be to Him - (He is) above having a son." Quran(4:171)


Islam rejects characterizing God in any human form or depicting Him as favouring certain individuals or nations on the basis of wealth, power or race. He created the human beings as equals. They may distinguish themselves and get His favour through virtue and piety only.
The concept that God rested in the seventh day of creation, that God wrestled with one of His soldiers, that God is an envious plotter against mankind, or that God is incarnate in any human being are considered blasphemy from the Islamic point of view.
The unique usage of Allah as a personal name of God is a reflection of Islam's emphasis on the purity of the belief in God which is the essence of the message of all God's messengers. Because of this, Islam considers associating any deity or personality with God as a deadly sin which God will never forgive, despite the fact He may forgive all other sins.

[Note that what is meant above applies ONLY to those people who die in a state wherein they are associating others with God. The repentance of those who yet live is acceptable to God if He wills]




Supplicate:
To ask for humbly or earnestly, as by praying. (thefreedictionary.com)
Supplication is thought of as sort of a prayer, a request for help from a deity. (vocabulary.com)
A prayer asking God's help as part of a religious service. (vocabulary.com)

Muslims don’t supplicate to any prophet...
They supplicate directly to God and not through any person, being or form of god (eg. idols)
In terms of idols, do you know that by placing Jesus on a cross in the form of a Statue, then worshipping, is a form of idol worship?
And you know for a fact that Bible is against idol worship..

Why ask through another source, when u claim that God hears all and sees all...


Prophet:
A person who speaks by divine inspiration or as the interpreter through whom the will of a god is expressed. (thefreedictionary.com)
A person regarded as an inspired teacher or proclaimer of the will of God. (oxforddictionaries.com)
One who utters divinely inspired revelations. (merriam-webster.com)


Prophets (eg Jesus, Muhammad etc) from an Islamic point of view, just came to deliver a message and to show and explain to the people this message and provide a way of life for others to follow.

[DFC]

The bible did not say it first.

Vedic texts speak volumes about different loka's (habitable planets) and goes so far to even talk about the advanced civilizations that live there. This was long before the bible.

But it doesnt matter because islam is the only truth.

[Habit7]

I should not have stirred that hornet's nest by including that Islam part.

I went on to cite from the Hadith of the Blind Man where it supports supplicating to Muhammad. AdamB attributed this to Shia teaching. You can read up from pgs 451-452.

It seems like you were once calling the discussion repetitive, now you are jumping into the fray. Most of what you have posted there has been discussed and challenged (at least by me) so you can read and catch up to where we at right now.

[marlener]

@ Rocknrolla will respond to your post in due course,@ new_SPECIES,if I am not wrong I am sure AdamB said that Muhammed will intercede on behalf of certain Muslim on judgement day.AdamB if I am wrong please correct me as I can't find the post at the moment.@Bluefete you know that the beasts in Revelation are symbolic right! Surprise Rocknrolla didn't say anything seeing he is the one who thinks that Christian tend to take everything in the bible literally.@ Duane I keep hearing you say that the bible SAYS that the earth is 6000 years old,I know I made a statement on my view,and I know that Habit7 said between 6000-12000 years,can you quote where someone posted the bible said so I have been going back checking but haven't seen it.

[New_SPECIES]

I should not have stirred that hornet's nest by including that Islam part.

I went on to cite from the Hadith of the Blind Man where it supports supplicating to Muhammad. AdamB attributed this to Shia teaching. You can read up from pgs 451-452.

It seems like you were once calling the discussion repetitive, now you are jumping into the fray. Most of what you have posted there has been discussed and challenged (at least by me) so you can read and catch up to where we at right now.

I respect for your persistence and patience with the atheists’ baseless arguments...
But I was just stating some Islamic points of view and beliefs, only to basically clear up some misinterpretations of Islam etc.

And I know I said that the thread is repetitious, and I still mean it.

Even my answers to the atheists’ questions were never challenged and were then just re-asked in 10-20 pages thereafter.

I left the topic, since the atheists here were immature and baseless and simply bent on “their way or the highway”.

You really think that for 530 pages nothing was repeated. "Where you are right now" is probably somewhere back on page 15_... (one-fifty-something)

What the others are doing is just waiting for some time to pass, only to then return to the forum to ask the same questions again..... just to annoy others.

Even what I am now defending is what I made mentioned to in the past!
I was just re-raising a point since the answers has seemed to be forgotten.

@ new_SPECIES,if I am not wrong I am sure AdamB said that Muhammed will intercede on behalf of certain Muslim on judgement day.
AdamB if I am wrong please correct me as I can't find the post at the moment

I am not arguing with what happens on Judgement Day...

I am referring to what people do on a day to day basis, such as pray to god through Jesus. Simply from a Islamic perspective.

And to extend the details of Judgement Day; even things such as body parts of a person will have an intercession on behalf of the person.

[Habit7]

Well I dont think anybody brought up to topic of the Hadith of the Blind Man before I did. Do you think the blind man was wrong to cry out to Muhammad for intercession?

Islam rejects characterizing God in any human form or depicting Him as favouring certain individuals or nations on the basis of wealth, power or race. He created the human beings as equals. They may distinguish themselves and get His favour through virtue and piety only.

Prior to the Quran being revealed to Muhammad, what virtue and piety did he exhibit to warrant him being favoured and becoming "Allah's final messenger."

[RBphoto]

Well I dont think anybody brought up to topic of the Hadith of the Blind Man before I did. Do you think the blind man was wrong to cry out to Muhammad for intercession?

Islam rejects characterizing God in any human form or depicting Him as favouring certain individuals or nations on the basis of wealth, power or race. He created the human beings as equals. They may distinguish themselves and get His favour through virtue and piety only.

Prior to the Quran being revealed to Muhammad, what virtue and piety did he exhibit to warrant him being favoured and becoming "Allah's final messenger."

He definitely did not do too much after to deserve that title either.

[AdamB]

Well I dont think anybody brought up to topic of the Hadith of the Blind Man before I did. Do you think the blind man was wrong to cry out to Muhammad for intercession?
HABIT7, Unlike Duane, I don't have the time to be debating the same point that has been dealt with. To attribute a hadith to Islam it has to be authentic. There were fabricated ahadith in the past that sought to undermine islam. End of this discussion.

Islam rejects characterizing God in any human form or depicting Him as favouring certain individuals or nations on the basis of wealth, power or race. He created the human beings as equals. They may distinguish themselves and get His favour through virtue and piety only.

Prior to the Quran being revealed to Muhammad, what virtue and piety did he exhibit to warrant him being favoured and becoming "Allah's final messenger."

You claim the bible to have some semblance of historicity. Why don't you research this question in an unbiased manner? (for the answer is well documented in history).

[AdamB]

@ Rocknrolla will respond to your post in due course,@ new_SPECIES,if I am not wrong I am sure AdamB said that Muhammed will intercede on behalf of certain Muslim on judgement day.AdamB if I am wrong please correct me as I can't find the post at the moment.@Bluefete you know that the beasts in Revelation are symbolic right! Surprise Rocknrolla didn't say anything seeing he is the one who thinks that Christian tend to take everything in the bible literally.@ Duane I keep hearing you say that the bible SAYS that the earth is 6000 years old,I know I made a statement on my view,and I know that Habit7 said between 6000-12000 years,can you quote where someone posted the bible said so I have been going back checking but haven't seen it.

Marlener,
There is hope for this thread yet! A prophet interceding with GOD on his followers behalf does not involve his followers worshipping him. "O Allah, grant to us (muslims) his (Muhammad's) intercession (with You) on the day of Judgment." The prayer is addressed to GOD/Allah, NOT Muhammad!!

Unlike Christians, we don't worship our prophet (Muhammad) like they worship their's (Jesus).

Rocknrolla surprisingly made a good point a couple of pages back when he was delving into the Hebrew being translated into English and the English bible mostly being a translation from the Latin Vulgate bible. However, what makes his views right? What's the criteria?

[AdamB]

If you don't believe that the bible was written in England by a bunch of monks just to Please the ruling class... just consider.... where the fack Jesus found guys named Andrew, Peter, James, John, Simon, Thomas, Matthew and Bartholomew.... In the Middle East?
Read the original manuscript in the language it was written and you will find out what their names really were. Jesus for example is 'Isa in arabic. This is really ignorant question, trumping this is possibly only the "We/Us" being used in scriptures as proof that GOD is more than one person.

This is the reason why some churches in the Western world are failing in their biblical mandate. They preach Jesus as a cosmic bellhop and not as a historical figure, preceded by accurate prophecy.
If the prophesy was accurate, then there would be no need for the bellhop business...
If only they would fulfill their mandate, less questions like this would arise.

[Habit7]

Well I dont think anybody brought up to topic of the Hadith of the Blind Man before I did. Do you think the blind man was wrong to cry out to Muhammad for intercession?

HABIT7, Unlike Duane, I don't have the time to be debating the same point that has been dealt with. To attribute a hadith to Islam it has to be authentic. There were fabricated ahadith in the past that sought to undermine islam. End of this discussion.

So are you saying that this particular hadith is fabricated?

Unlike Christians, we don't worship our prophet (Muhammad) like they worship their's (Jesus).

So true. Christians worship their Prophet, Priest and King just as He declared Himself to be Yahweh incarnate and the Jews sought to kill Him like it was prophesied hundreds of years prior.

Islamists worship Muhammad inadvertently as he declared himself to be Allah's last messenger, presented an allah with no historical or archeological link to the Yahweh he claims it came from, committed numerous immoral acts that even some Islamists would frown upon today while he declared himself in his recitation to be the best of all men. And though a mere man, he would assist Allah as an intercessor as he judges on the day of judgement.

No biblical prophet (Old and New Testament), has ever had such a legacy.

[salvation4U]

Unlike Christians, we don't worship our prophet (Muhammad) like they worship their's (Jesus).

Jesus Chist is the Son of God..to you the unbeliever he is a prophet..

John 14:6
Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

Jesus was conceived by the holy spirit not from any seed of man. He is the second Adam, borned to redeem man from sin of the first Adam in the garden of Eden.

I am studing biblical theology so take notes
I dont know why people dont sit down and study and not just read the bible. Study the greek and hebrew meanings and you may understand more.

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

I am studing biblical theology so take notes

Based on what is written in the bible, how old is the earth? Where there dinosaurs on the Ark?

which version of the Bible do you adhere to? KJV or NASB or another?

[New_SPECIES]

Unlike Christians, we don't worship our prophet (Muhammad) like they worship their's (Jesus).

Jesus Christ is the Son of God... to you the unbeliever he is a prophet...

John 14:6
Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the “Father” except through me.

Jesus was conceived by the Holy Spirit not from any seed of man. He is the second Adam, borned to redeem man from sin of the first Adam in the Garden of Eden.

I am studying biblical theology so take notes...
I don’t know why people don’t sit down and study and not just read the bible. Study the Greek and Hebrew meanings and you may understand more.

This word “Father” in your scripture is what created alot of misinterpretations.

From Islamic scriptures Jesus never referred to god as the “father”...

And when Jesus said: “No one comes to the “Father” except through me”, it didn’t mean that you have to take it literally and pray to Jesus to get to god...
I also don’t think it meant to eat his body and drink his blood...

It meant to follow his ways, attitude to others, morals, advice, etc...
It meant to take his life as an example for yours and through a life lived like that, you get to god..


Here’s another scripture from the Quran: Verse 4:156-159:

"That they rejected Faith; that they uttered against Mary A grave false charge; that they said (in boast): 'We killed Christ Jesus The son of Mary, The Messenger of Allah.' But they killed him not, nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjunction to follow, for of a surety they killed him not. Nay, Allah raised him up Unto Himself; and Allah Is Exalted in Power, Wise. And there is none of the people of the book (Jews and Christians) But must believe in him (Jesus) before his death; And on the Day of Judgment He (Jesus) will be a witness against them."

This is also another major difference between Islam and Christianity.

Since all the different “forms” of Christianity is based on a belief that Jesus was crucified, then where will this religion be if he wasn’t?


This is another Quote from the Quran: Verse 4:171-172:

"O People of the Book! Commit no excesses in your religion: nor say Of Allah ought but the truth. Christ Jesus the son of Mary was (no more than) A Messenger of Allah, And His Word, which He bestowed on Mary, and the Spirit proceeding From Him: so believe In Allah and His Messengers. Say not "Trinity": desist: It will be better for you: For Allah is One God: Glory to Him: (Far Exalted is He) above having a son. To Him (Allah) Belong all things in the heavens And on earth. And enough Is Allah as a Disposer of affairs.
Christ disdaineth not To serve and worship Allah, Nor do the angels, those Nearest (to Allah): Those who disdain His worship and are arrogant, He will gather them all Together unto Himself (Jesus) to (answer)."



Another Islamic point to show that Muslims don’t worship Prophet Muhammad is the fact that no Picture was ever taken of him or recorded.

This image recording of the prophet creates alot of segregation and misguidance of their teachings.

For example: since so many images of Jesus taken, many people focussed their attention on his Image rather than his teachings.

Hence the reason why in some homes and some parts of the world, you will see a picture of a Rasta Jesus, then in another place u will see Jesus as a White man, and another place u will see Jesus as a Middle East person.

My point is that, this caused some races to feel less superior if they saw that God chose his “son” (according to you) to be white or black etc..

Even his hair etc caused separation, for example:
If someone with curly hair saw a Jesus pic with straight hair they would then feel less superior etc.

Do you know that the White Christians think that Jesus was pure white?

Muslims didn’t take the pics for this same reason. We were advised by him to only remember his way of life, attitude to others, morals, advice, teachings, etc.

If our purpose was really to worship (prophet Muhammad); we probably would not only have taken his picture but created a statue or idol and stick it in our cars and homes...

I am studying biblical theology so take notes

Based on what is written in the bible, how old is the earth? Where there dinosaurs on the Ark?

which version of the Bible do you adhere to? KJV or NASB or another?

This another example of what I said in earlier posts...

Look at this question: Which Version of the Bible?

Do you know that the Quran and its writings are amongst the most preserved books in the world.
This was even proven by non-muslims on various websites.

The book is written in such a way that the Arabic language itself sounds like a song.
Although the English translation does not rhyme or have a song effect, the Arabic verses do.
Through this, the book and its exact wording is easily memorized, the same way a person could memorize an entire song or poem.

It has been done like this over centuries and decades, so even if others may re-write or try to change anything, it can be easily regurgitated and placed back into original script.

Even right here in Trinidad there are thousands of Muslims who have memorized the entire Quran from its original state..

__________________________________________________
___________________________________________

Regardless of the negative comments and ridicule that will follow this post, the fact remains that endless people are realizing the truth from the misguidance and joining Islam.

Hence the reason why Islam is the fastest growing religion in the world.

___________________________________________
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[AdamB]

Unlike Christians, we don't worship our prophet (Muhammad) like they worship their's (Jesus).

Jesus Chist is the Son of God..to you the unbeliever he is a prophet..

John 14:6
Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.
Sorry, this does not say that he was the Son of GOD.
All of the prophets could have said the same:
I am the way (leading to GOD) - follow me.
I speak the truth (revelation from GOD) - believe in it.
I am the life (eternal life after resurrection on the Day pf Judgment) - the promise of GOD will be fulfilled.

What does that have to do with Jesus being GOD or the Son of GOD? I don't know which it is because you christians cannot make up your minds.

Jesus was conceived by the holy spirit not from any seed of man. He is the second Adam, borned to redeem man from sin of the first Adam in the garden of Eden.
Oh Lord put ah hand!!
So GOD was a Holy Duality and then after Jesus was conceived, became a Holy Trinity?

Second Adam, so Adam was also the Son of GOD. He has a stronger claim because (1) he was first and (2) he had no mother (like Jesus), created/shaped/fashioned by the Hand of GOD HIMSELF!!

I am studing biblical theology so take notes

You had me at:
I dont know why you understand more.

A word of advice, anything that has a beginning or an end is NOT GOD.