The Religion Discussion

[Habit7]

Right after you present the Islamic Torah, Psalms and Gospel Muhammad was always appealing to.

[RBphoto]

Science does not claim to know everything! It never did.

There is no scientific evidence to support the Adam and Eve story or Noah's flood.

Is lack of evidence proof that something didn't exist?

If no one identifies the 16yr old student of Waterloo High as the killer of the 14 year old and the murder weapon is not found, is that proof that the latter was not killed?

That logic is flawed. The proof of the death of the student is the dead body. The proof of guilt of the 16yr old has to be determined beyond a reasonable doubt by the state. If there is a reasonable doubt, the case will be thrown out. There is reasonable doubt about the origin of the Quoran. It should be thrown out.

Aye look who! Crossdrilled!
Bai, Ramadhan coming up soon...yuh fasting this year?

Doesn't reasonable doubt also mean reasonable reason to try the person? So there is a possibility of guilt.

Bringing it back to religion, fair possibility that the Quran came from GOD for those who are skeptical. It's kinda funny that some will believe in an un-provable GOD but will be certain that HIS book (the Quran) did not come from HIM! Well not funny, that's how disbelievers are identified.

1) You have a wrong interpretation of what resonable doubt is as used in law. Look that up before we continue down that vein. It also means that the burden of proof is on the person who is making the assertion.

2) I am agnostic theist. I have no delusion that any fictional spirit real or god exsist. I read scriptures because they have many great moral parables. Hinduism has a lot of crap in it as well, like wife burning and the caste system. I object more to Aramic religions that preach fire and brimstone to non believers and other biggotry than I do to Hinduism. If you think I have any great love for any religion.. think again. From the time someone tell me they are a Bhramin in a manner to assert their religious superiority over me, I label them a shite hound.

[rocknrolla]

Pal,
How would you know that? Did you read the Quran? Do you know arabic? Please quote from the Quran those quotes you claim above?

The earth is flat: Is not the earth laid out and easy for man to travel / work / etc? Meaning that it is not like the Grand Canyon with mountains all over and cliffs, rivers / lakes / seas, that make it EXTREMELY DIFFICULT for man!! Going to work and back every day is not like driving to Maracas around the mountain cliffs with landslides, etc.

From that perspective, is it not seemingly flat?

No.

ROOOOFFLL^

it kinna flat but not really hoss.. wam to yuh. lololol

[rocknrolla]

Science does not claim to know everything! It never did.

There is no scientific evidence to support the Adam and Eve story or Noah's flood.

Is lack of evidence proof that something didn't exist?

If no one identifies the 16yr old student of Waterloo High as the killer of the 14 year old and the murder weapon is not found, is that proof that the latter was not killed?

That logic is flawed. The proof of the death of the student is the dead body. The proof of guilt of the 16yr old has to be determined beyond a reasonable doubt by the state. If there is a reasonable doubt, the case will be thrown out. There is reasonable doubt about the origin of the Quoran. It should be thrown out.

Aye look who! Crossdrilled!
Bai, Ramadhan coming up soon...yuh fasting this year?

Doesn't reasonable doubt also mean reasonable reason to try the person? So there is a possibility of guilt.

Bringing it back to religion, fair possibility that the Quran came from GOD for those who are skeptical. It's kinda funny that some will believe in an un-provable GOD but will be certain that HIS book (the Quran) did not come from HIM! Well not funny, that's how disbelievers are identified.

1) You have a wrong interpretation of what resonable doubt is as used in law. Look that up before we continue down that vein. It also means that the burden of proof is on the person who is making the assertion.

2) I am agnostic theist. I have no delusion that any fictional spirit real or god exsist. I read scriptures because they have many great moral parables. Hinduism has a lot of crap in it as well, like wife burning and the caste system. I object more to Aramic religions that preach fire and brimstone to non believers and other biggotry than I do to Hinduism. If you think I have any great love for any religion.. think again. From the time someone tell me they are a Bhramin in a manner to assert their religious superiority over me, I label them a shite hound.

d boss, i tell u the spirit realm not fictional inno. leave that out of the religious dogma nah man. man call he life giving spirit a delusion yes. that aught to sit well with ur higher consciousness.. lol

[AdamB]

Pal,
How would you know that? Did you read the Quran? Do you know arabic? Please quote from the Quran those quotes you claim above?

The earth is flat: Is not the earth laid out and easy for man to travel / work / etc? Meaning that it is not like the Grand Canyon with mountains all over and cliffs, rivers / lakes / seas, that make it EXTREMELY DIFFICULT for man!! Going to work and back every day is not like driving to Maracas around the mountain cliffs with landslides, etc.

From that perspective, is it not seemingly flat?

No.

ROOOOFFLL^

it kinna flat but not really hoss.. wam to yuh. lololol

Psalm 136:6
New King James Version (NKJV)

6 To Him who laid out the earth above the waters,
For His mercy endures forever;

Oh my! Is that what the Bible says? blass-for-u?

BTW This is a Psalm dedicated to giving thanks to GOD for HIS Mercies! Check it out, my dear christians, for giving thanks you seem to forget.

habit7, you need to thank GOD you don't have a FEDERAL law to follow!

[RBphoto]

No lightning bolt zaps for the day.. don't care.

[AdamB]

"Truth has (now) arrived, and Falsehood perished: for Falsehood is (by its nature) bound to perish." [Qur'an 17:81]

Read IN THE NAME OF YOUR LORD, my dear friends:

Allegation that the Quran says the earth is flat

Regarding the allegation which is commonly made against the Quran, where websites and youtube videos allege the Quran says the earth is flat. The Quran does not say the world is flat.
Once again the allegation:

The Quran says that Allah has made the earth for you as a carpet. This gives an indication that the earth is flat. Does this not contradict established modern science?

1. Earth made as a carpet

The question refers to a verse from the Qur’an in Surah Nuh:
"And Allah has made the earth for you as a carpet (spread out)." The Holy Qur'an, Chapter 71, Verse 19

But the sentence in the above verse is not complete. It continues in the next verse, explaining the previous verse. It says: "That ye may go about therein, in spacious roads." The Holy Quran, Chapter 71, Verse 20

A similar message is repeated in Surah TaHa:

"He Who has made for you the earth like a carpet spread out; has enabled you to go about therein by roads (and channels)...." The Holy Quran, Chapter 20, Verse 53

The surface of the earth i.e. earth’s crust is less than 30 miles in thickness and is very thin as compared to the radius of the earth which is about 3750 miles. The deeper layers of the earth are very hot, fluid and hostile to any form of life. The earth’s crust is a solidified shell on which we can live. The Quran rightly refers to it like a carpet spread out, so that we can travel along its roads and paths.

2. Carpet can also be spread on other than an absolute flat surface

Not a single verse of the Quran says that the earth is flat. The Quran only compares the earth’s crust with a carpet. Some people seem to think that carpet can only be put on an absolute flat surface. It is possible to spread a carpet on a large sphere such as the earth. It can easily be demonstrated by taking a huge model of the earth’s globe covering it with a carpet.

Carpet is generally put on a surface, which is not very comfortable to walk on. The Quran describes the earth crust as a carpet, without which human beings would not be able to survive because of the hot, fluid and hostile environment beneath it. The Quran is thus not only logical, it is mentioning a scientific fact that was discovered by geologists centuries later.

3. Earth has been spread out

Similarly, the Quran says in several verses that the earth has been spread out.

"And We have spread out the (spacious) earth: how excellently We do spread out!" The Holy Quran, Chapter 51, Verse 48

Similarly the Quran also mentions in several other verses that the earth is an expanse:

"Have We not made the earth as a wide expanse. And the mountains as pegs?" The Holy Quran, Chapter 78, Verse 6-7

None of these verses of the Quran contain even the slightest implication that the earth is flat. It only indicates that the earth is spacious and the reason for this spaciousness of the earth is mentioned. The Quran says:

"O My servants who believe! truly. spacious is My Earth: therefore serve ye Me –(And Me alone)!"

The Holy Quran, Chapter 29, Verse 56
Therefore none can give the excuse, that he could not do good and was forced to do evil because of the surroundings and circumstances.

4. Earth is geospherical in shape

The Quran mentions the actual shape of the earth in the following verse: "And we have made the earth egg shaped". The Holy Quran, Chapter 79, Verse 30

The "dahu" in the Arabic Language means to extend and even out. It is said: "daha" the thing; "yad'hu dahwan". These terms can mean he either evened out and extended it or he threw it and rolled it. It is also said: "the rain daha the stones from the face of the earth," which means it rolled it and washed it away. It is also said: "The horse passed by yad'hu dahwan," which means he is beating his foot on the ground and yad'hu its sand. Also, the ostrich's mad'hi means its laying of its eggs, and "ad'hiha" is the nest where its chicks are born.

So as we clearly see, all of the above Arabic words that are derived from "daha" mean:
1- To extend.
2- To roll.
3- To even out.
4- Causing to become egg-shaped or creating, making or producing eggs (see the ostrich's mad'hi example above).

The meanings all derive from the root word in arabic, there is nothing wrong with applying all the meanings especially amazing in this situation seeing as they are all true. Arabic is a rich language and words usually have more then one meaning

The Arabic word dahaha in Noble Verse 79:30 above did have multiple meanings and uses. One of them was when one refers to an ostrich egg. Another was when referring to making something extended, spread out, stretched and/or expanded. This is an example of how Allah Almighty uses scientific notions in the Noble Quran when He talked about how He created certain things. He gave words that had multiple meanings and interpretations to them to make the Noble Quran truly be for all times and all places, and show it has deeper meanings. The meanings unravel more and more as scientific discoveries increase

The shape of the earth being similar to an oblate spheroid [ Also according to Wikipedia: "The Earth's shape is very close to an oblate spheroid—a rounded shape with a bulge around the equator—although the precise shape (the geoid) varies from this by up to 100 metres (327 ft)."

Eggs can be described as prolate spheroids, ovate spehroids or oblate spheroids. The fact is the word used in the Quran has particular root link to an ostrich egg

We are specifically observing an Ostrich egg which does resemble an Oblate Spheroid and NOT Prolate Spheroid. More over technical labeling is irrelevant since these are invented modern names that we ascribe to the earth. How would it make sense for God to describe the earth as an 'Oblate spheroid' 1400 years ago? Even if God were to describe the Earth as simply 'round' it would be incorrect. Describing the Earth as resembling an ostrich egg is very significant and precise as it was not only unique at the time but is still accurate and visually relevant

Thus its not just a case of bad translation, the words in arabic have multiple meanings and all cant be used at once however deeper analysis do show that all the meanings are accurate. This however is not likely to convince the non muslim who most probably thinks the muslims are stretching it abit and using words they want to use, which is their choice and is fair enough. But to say the verses are irrelevant is incorrect, they certainly have some merit.

Thus the allegation is untrue, the Quran and modern established science are in perfect harmony.

And please if you prefer videos, check out the following:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5HR5FcRD ... re=related

[Habit7]

Psalm 136:6
New King James Version (NKJV)

6 To Him who laid out the earth above the waters,
For His mercy endures forever;

Oh my! Is that what the Bible says? blass-for-u?

BTW This is a Psalm dedicated to giving thanks to GOD for HIS Mercies! Check it out, my dear christians, for giving thanks you seem to forget.

habit7, you need to thank GOD you don't have a FEDERAL law to follow!

This just shows your inability to interpret basic Scripture. The plain reading of that text says the body of land is generally above the body of water, nothing more.

AdamB, I am thankful that I dont have a federal law to follow because Christianity doesnt promote federal religious statehood. Unlike other certain religions that believes their goal is to bring every nation under their religious national system whether by persuasion or force.

BTW is this Psalm corrupted or pure? How do you distinguish this fact?

[rocknrolla]

No lightning bolt zaps for the day.. don't care.

lightning zaps u looking for mightnt always come with thunder clouds.. they could manifest in a cheating wife, troublesome children, excess stress, ill health, the cutting off of dreams and goals.. and other forms of difficulty and hardship (altho these can also be tests of faith). ur spirit mightnt warn u of danger when ur ego boldly want to go on to the next adventure etc.

the blessing of God is everlasting peace. starting from in this realm but moving over as well into the next.

[Habit7]

No lightning bolt zaps for the day.. don't care.

2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance.

While God is just, He is also merciful, as someone reminded us in the quote from Psalms above.

[djaggs]

Science does not claim to know everything! It never did.

There is no scientific evidence to support the Adam and Eve story or Noah's flood.

but Duane, science does claim to be able to explain everything. The new atheist movement described by another scientist as following a philosophy called scientism claims that science can replace God. It is the agenda being pursued by Richard Dawkins and his followers. I am sure many people here have read his book and have been influenced by it.

I posted two documents by two scientific minds who demonstrate that evoloution is not a scientific fact, it is a theory, and a flawed one at that. It is taught in schools because it has overtaken the world and been fostered on students without ever being proven as factual by people with an agenda. As biologist learn more about life, they are realizing that evoloution as a fact seems less and less likely. The idea of intelligent design is more likely. The complexity of DNA and the incidence of heriditary traits illustrate the likelyhood of design rather than accident.

I saw an interview with a professor of biology who indicated that if he makes his convictions known, he would not be able to get grants for research so he has to tow the evouloution line.

Prof. Berlinski wrote a book about Darwin's theory that totally debunks it, Darwin's Black Box: The Biochemical Challenge to Evolution .

Prof Berlinski is not a Christian, he is a secular scientist and philosopher. There are many other scientists who do not subscribe to the theory of evoloution however, the establishment wants to deny the existence of God.

I know many people are offended because of some of the things Ive said about the current US president, but i do not make up the news nor do I make up american foreign policy. I just saw this on yahoo news this morning which further confirms everything i have been saying about Obama's antichrist agenda.

http://www.breitbart.com/big-government ... is-demands

Most people are unaware of what this man is doing. If I try to make people aware and they get offended, so be it. But dont say you werent warned.

[rocknrolla]

Pal,
How would you know that? Did you read the Quran? Do you know arabic? Please quote from the Quran those quotes you claim above?

The earth is flat: Is not the earth laid out and easy for man to travel / work / etc? Meaning that it is not like the Grand Canyon with mountains all over and cliffs, rivers / lakes / seas, that make it EXTREMELY DIFFICULT for man!! Going to work and back every day is not like driving to Maracas around the mountain cliffs with landslides, etc.

From that perspective, is it not seemingly flat?

No.

ROOOOFFLL^

it kinna flat but not really hoss.. wam to yuh. lololol

Psalm 136:6
New King James Version (NKJV)

6 To Him who laid out the earth above the waters,
For His mercy endures forever;

Oh my! Is that what the Bible says? blass-for-u?

BTW This is a Psalm dedicated to giving thanks to GOD for HIS Mercies! Check it out, my dear christians, for giving thanks you seem to forget.

habit7, you need to thank GOD you don't have a FEDERAL law to follow!

i was just kidding about the whole flat/round confusion habit7 was going thru lols. ancient cultures predating the bible knew of our solar system and 9 planets/planetary bodies revolving around the sun including their moons. more than that, they detailed information about stars so far away we only see them with recent technology, recent like the last 10-20 yrs. i doubt any Holy book would say outright that the earth is flat. it is all about interpretation and intention. as a king for example if i wanted to keep all my slaves.. err peasants under my rule and keep them from straying to other kingdoms, telling the illiterate masses the earth is flat theyll fall off if they wander too far is a way of caging them into my kingdom.. mentally.

it would take a great and brave hero to venture past the borders of death to defy fear and prove the king wrong.

[AdamB]

Psalm 136:6
New King James Version (NKJV)

6 To Him who laid out the earth above the waters,
For His mercy endures forever;

Oh my! Is that what the Bible says? blass-for-u?

BTW This is a Psalm dedicated to giving thanks to GOD for HIS Mercies! Check it out, my dear christians, for giving thanks you seem to forget.

habit7, you need to thank GOD you don't have a FEDERAL law to follow!

This just shows your inability to interpret basic Scripture. The plain reading of that text says the body of land is generally above the body of water, nothing more.

AdamB, I am thankful that I dont have a federal law to follow because Christianity doesnt promote federal religious statehood. Unlike other certain religions that believes their goal is to bring every nation under their religious national system whether by persuasion or force.

BTW is this Psalm corrupted or pure? How do you distinguish this fact?

HA HA!!LOL

You christians, you pick and choose and CHANGE AND CORRUPT the Word of GOD!!!

It's there in plain english, "LAID OUT THE EARTH"!! It didn't say "laid out the body of LAND"!!

Do you deny that the verb used was "LAID OUT" also? Right there on your nose!!

According to your interpretation, if we look at the Earth from outer space or the moon, then we should see a spherical earth (body of land) with a pool of water below?

[Habit7]

What are you trying to say by emphasising "laid out"?

And please answer: is this Psalm corrupted or pure? How do you distinguish this fact?

[AdamB]

BIBLE STUDY TOOLS COMMENTARY:

EXPOSITION

Verse 6. To him that stretched out the earth above the waters. Lifting it up from the mingled mass, the dank morass, the bottomless bog, of mixed land and sea; and so fitting it to be the abode of man. Who but the Lord could have wrought this marvel? Few even think of the divine wisdom and power which performed all this of old; yet, if a continent can be proved to have risen or fallen an inch within historic memory, the fact is recorded in the "transactions" of learned societies, and discussed at every gathering of philosophers.

For his mercy endureth for ever, as is seen in the original upheaval and perpetual upstanding of the [size=200]habitable land[/size], so that no deluge drowns the race. By his strength he sets fast the mountains and consolidates the land upon which we sojourn.

From the flood he lifts the land:
Firm his mercies ever stand.


EXPLANATORY NOTES AND QUAINT SAYINGS

Verse 6. Stretched out the earth above the waters. The waters of the great deep ( Genesis 7:11 ) are meant; above which the crust of the earth is outspread. In Proverbs 8:27 the great deep encircles the earth. --Speaker's Commentary.

[AdamB]

GILL'S EXPOSITION FROM BIBLEHUB:

To him that stretcheth out the earth above the waters,.... Or, "besides the waters" (t), close by them, and yet secures the earth from being covered with them; see Psalm 24:2;

for his mercy endureth for ever; it was in mercy he caused the waters to go off the earth which first covered it; that trees, plants, and herbs, might spring up out of it, and that it might be a fit habitation for man; and though for the sins of the old world these waters were let in upon it, which drowned it, and destroyed man and beast upon it, except a few that were in mercy preserved; yet the Lord has promised and swore to it, that these waters shall no more go over the earth to destroy it; he has set a bound for the sea that it cannot pass, by a decree of his; even the sand on the shore, which, as weak as it may seem to be, is a bound unpassable; though they may toss and rage and roar, they shall not prevail, nor pass over it, which is a perpetual miracle of mercy, Jeremiah 5:22.

Don't you believe in the Bible, Habit7? nay you only follow conjecture!!

[Habit7]

Big fonting doesnt explain anything further, what are you trying to say?

Is that Psalm corrupted or pure? How do you distinguish this fact?

[rocknrolla]

http://www.letusreason.org/Apolo6.htm

The Bible had refuted the flat earth theory long before scientists actually disproved it. The atmosphere is a terrestrial blanket making the earth inhabitable -- retaining heat, spreading light, providing air (Job.26:10). Only someone who could see it from off the planet would be able to know this.

As Job went though his physical trial he was also having a spiritual one. God began to enter into conversation with him "Listen to this, O Job; stand still and consider the wondrous works of God" (Job 37:14)

Job 22:14 says the earth is round. “And He walks above the circle of heaven.” The word meaning circle, circuit, compass that is our atmosphere around the earth. For centuries, man believed that the earth was flat. Christopher Columbus was criticized for setting sail to the other side of the earth, they expected Columbus to sail off the edge of the earth. Columbus had received his insight that motivated him from the Bible. When people thought it was flat God told us it was round. If they only read the Bible they wouldn't have been afraid to fall off.

christopher columbus' captain's log also contained information about angels appearing at sea and leading him to land shining light.

Job 26:7 says the earth is suspended on nothing. Early man thought Atlas, a huge turtle or elephants held up the earth. In the North sky within the millions of stars is a vast expanse of blackness. The Bible was there before the telescope so only God could describe it. Today we know it is gravity that holds the planets and stars in their orbits making them appear to be hung on nothing.

Job 28:25 says air has weight. Science confirms air is about 50 miles thick, exactly the right composition to support life. It's perfect for our lungs. The air filters deadly rays. If the earth was 10% larger or smaller all would die. We are in a fragile balance before the sun between frying and freezing.

Job 36:27-28; Ecclesiastes 1:6-7; Isaiah 40:12 and 55:10 explains the hydrological cycle. The condensation and hydrology maintain life, provide evaporation, transportation, precipitation and run-off . This describe the repeated cycle of precipitation, its evaporation, and condensation in the clouds.

In recent history science taught that most clouds are formed by evaporation of water from the ocean, but the Bible recorded this centuries ago. Solomon wrote in Ecclesiastes 1:6-7, “The wind blows to the south and turns to the north; round and round it goes, ever returning on its course. All streams flow into the sea, yet the sea is never full. To the place the streams come from, there they return again. Here King Solomon, writing 3,000 years ago explains how the oceans are the origin of rain. tells us the wind has currents. This was unknown to man, today science has documented the direction of wind currents and wind paths. Meteorology or the circulation of winds move by fixed laws, speaks of global wind currents and the earth's water cycle. “The phrase, 'the wind blows to the south and turns to the north; round and round it goes, ever returning on its course' is an accurate and astonishing description of the circular flow of air around the earth, called the 'jet stream,' well known to anyone who watches the evening news weather reports”( also in Isaiah 40:12.) This is only a recent understanding of scientists. Is Scripture human supposition or divine revelation?

Job 38:12,17 and Luke 17 show the earth rotates. Ancient science taught a geocentric view of the universe. The change of night and day were thought to be caused by the sun revolving around the earth. We know today that it is the earth's rotation on its axis that gives us the affect of the sun's rising and setting. Job about 4,000 years ago, wrote Job 38:12: “Have you commanded the morning since your days began, and caused the dawn to know its place,
v.14 “ It takes on form like clay under a seal.” Job paints the picture here is of clay being turned or rotated on the potter's wheel.

Job 38:16 tells us there are springs in the sea (this was not known until 1913 when they found underground rivers). Solomon mentions about the movement of water in Eccl.1:7 “All streams run to the sea, but the sea is not full; to the place where the streams flow, there they flow again.” Matthew Maury who lived in the middle 1800's had a career with the U.S. Navy. He was the founder of modern oceanography and hydrography. Maury was inspired by Psalm 8:8, dedicated his life to find and document these paths God had mentioned in Scripture. “Whatever passes along the paths of the sea.” These paths were unknown before he charted the winds and currents of the Atlantic. Maury draw accurate maps of ocean currents that are still used today.

Job 38:22 mentions the treasures of the snow. Each flake is of perfect dimensions and all are different. The snow is beneficial for nitrogen for fertilizer.

OH YEAH i know how snow is made.. and can replicate to pretty much identical snowflakes side by side using nature's own method

Water is heavier than air, and is transported in clouds. Some see this process suggested as God continued in his conversation with Job “Dost thou know the balancing of the clouds, the wondrous works of Him who is perfect in knowledge?” (Job 37:16).

In Job 36:27 and 28 is the statement, He draws up the drops' of water, which distill as rain to the streams; the clouds pour Down their moisture and abundant showers fall on mankind.” Here we find an accurate description of the earth's hydrologic, cycle. Even during the Middle Ages, the source of rain water was something of a mystery. But in approximately 2,000 B.C. we find Job accurately describing the rain cycle.

Job 38:30 describes ice. Frozen water expands and rises. To sink would kill water life.

Job 38:31 explains the solar system. The Hebrew speaks of a pivot or hinge. In the South-Southwest is the Pleiades, 7 stars making up the center of the solar system. Amos 5:8 states the Pleiades consists of 7 stars but it was only discovered in this last century because with the naked eye one can see only 6.

[AdamB]

What are you trying to say by emphasising "laid out"?

Why LAID OUT as opposed to PLACED? What's the meaning of LAID OUT?

You tell me the difference in meaning:

6 To Him who laid out the earth above the waters

6 To Him who placed the earth above the waters

[AdamB]

habit7,
I am beating this point to a frazzle! When I'm done with you you'll be laid out (flattened) on the ground!!

[rocknrolla]

for adamb's reference

Quran 20:53

' [It is He] who has made for you the earth as a bed [spread out] and inserted therein for you roadways and sent down from the sky, rain and produced thereby categories of various plants.'

told u look for similarities, then u wont embarras urself when refuting others. other versions of the quran i believe have 'laid out' instead of spread out, just like in the bible.

either way the bed is not eggshaped so there is obviously a matter of interpretation here. perhaps spread out pertains more to Allah taking the formless and all jumbled up earth and seperating water and earth and placing them in a cycle that keeps them accessible. the carpet of earth is wrapped around molten lava and the likes.

this is also why reading ur entire holy books from cover to cover is important. there is a long winded and very entertaining story if u ask me and what is not clear in the first paragraph is made clear in the last paragraph of the last chapter, perhaps even in a totally different chapter. taking knowledge out of context can enlighten certain personal valued perspectives. but again... if i cut a picture in half that originally had 3 ppl in it and show u one half and hide the other, how can u know the whole picture (story). what colour shirt is the third hidden person wearing? is it a boy or a girl.

[Habit7]

First of all you are beating up over a translation of Hebrew into 17th century English

There is a translation like the New Living Translation that used your favoured word "placed"

Whether laid out/placed/stretched out/spread out/etc. it doesn't connote the meaning flat as you are trying to force into it.




And before I answer any further question please stop avoiding mine because it is speaking volumes of your credibility:

Is that Psalm corrupted or pure? How do you distinguish this fact?

[metalgear2095]

[quote="AdamB]Yet this scientific knowledge and evidence does not know how the universe was created (what really caused it) and they don't know EVERYTHING that exists of the Creation!!

Islam is not in opposition to science, it is in cohesion with it. It may be in opposition to theories that may not have been proven, in which case those theories need to be proven but will surely be disproved...[/quote]
The Koran says the earth is flat and the sun revolves around it. That is not in cohesion with science.[/quote][/quote]
Pal,
How would you know that? Did you read the Quran? Do you know arabic? Please quote from the Quran those quotes you claim above?

The earth is flat: Is not the earth laid out and easy for man to travel / work / etc? Meaning that it is not like the Grand Canyon with mountains all over and cliffs, rivers / lakes / seas, that make it EXTREMELY DIFFICULT for man!! Going to work and back every day is not like driving to Maracas around the mountain cliffs with landslides, etc.

From that perspective, is it not seemingly flat?[/quote]

Your statement does not mean the earth can be flat or round!

[RBphoto]

No lightning bolt zaps for the day.. don't care.

lightning zaps u looking for mightnt always come with thunder clouds.. they could manifest in a cheating wife, troublesome children, excess stress, ill health, the cutting off of dreams and goals.. and other forms of difficulty and hardship (altho these can also be tests of faith). ur spirit mightnt warn u of danger when ur ego boldly want to go on to the next adventure etc.

the blessing of God is everlasting peace. starting from in this realm but moving over as well into the next.

I am a level 85 palladin in this realm....so fack you and your gherd!!!

[rocknrolla]

No lightning bolt zaps for the day.. don't care.

lightning zaps u looking for mightnt always come with thunder clouds.. they could manifest in a cheating wife, troublesome children, excess stress, ill health, the cutting off of dreams and goals.. and other forms of difficulty and hardship (altho these can also be tests of faith). ur spirit mightnt warn u of danger when ur ego boldly want to go on to the next adventure etc.

the blessing of God is everlasting peace. starting from in this realm but moving over as well into the next.

I am a level 85 palladin in this realm....so fack you and your gherd!!!

rofl.. ok d boss

[Habit7]

AdamB always has precious time to ask questions about the Bible but never answers questions on his view of the Bible, oh well.

[metalgear2095]

And the Sun runneth on unto a resting-place for him. That is the measuring of the Mighty, the Wise
And for the Moon we have appointed mansions till she return like an old shrivelled palm-leaf.
It is not for the Sun to overtake the Moon, nor doth the night outstrip the day. They float each in an orbit.”
Surah 36:38-40 (Pickthall)

So the sun orbits too. Lol

[mediahouse]

can a christian member here please explain me why people say jesus is the father , son and holy ghost?

also if you perceived jesus as god he basically made a human form of himself to come to earth to die for man sins, while still remained a spirit form in the heavens?

also explain this verse john 316

"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. "


In english it would say - for jesus so loved the world he gave his only begotten jesus , that whosoever believe in jesus should not perish"

so basically jesus gave himself to himself ?

for a religion to make sense it must be logically


and finally why would a GOD pray to himself?
http://www.jesuscentral.com/ji/jesus-pa ... raying.php

many versus of the bible say jesus prayed to a god.
so basically he prayed to himself?

[Habit7]

can a christian member here please explain me why people say jesus is the father , son and holy ghost?

I dont know who is saying this but they are sadly wrong. The complete revelation of who God is in the Bible has always been one in essence, three in person. Jesus is the Son, while not being the Father or the Holy Spirit. The 3 persons are one God, coequal, co-eternal, which the title Father and Son demonstrating their relationship, not progeny.

also if you perceived jesus as god he basically made a human form of himself to come to earth to die for man sins, while still remained a spirit form in the heavens?

Philippians 2:5-11 Have this attitude in yourselves which was also in Christ Jesus, who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped, but emptied Himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men. Being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross. For this reason also, God highly exalted Him, and bestowed on Him the name which is above every name, so that at the name of Jesus every knee will bow, of those who are in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and that every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

Colossians 1:15-20 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation. For by Him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things have been created through Him and for Him. He is before all things, and in Him all things hold together. He is also head of the body, the church; and He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, so that He Himself will come to have first place in everything. For it was the Father’s good pleasure for all the fullness to dwell in Him, and through Him to reconcile all things to Himself, having made peace through the blood of His cross; through Him, I say, whether things on earth or things in heaven.

From the passage form Philippians it teach that Jesus added humanity to His nature as He entered His creation. Even while as a zygote to a 33yr old man, Jesus sustained the world. He was not in spirit form in the heavens, His spirit and body was found in Christ.

also explain this verse john 316

God in the person of the Father in a demonstration of love to people of the world, gave God in the person of the Son, so whoever believes in the work of the Son, will not perish in Hell but have eternal life with God. In a sense it is God giving Himself to Himself but that just speaks volumes in that nothing else satisfies God. In the former Jewish system the blood of animals covered the sin of the Jews, to the next extreme, world religions like Islam and Roman Catholicism teaches that at the end of the day, it is our "mostly good" moral record that will make us be received by God. But what the Bible is say God's justice condemns us, but only God's perfect moral record is what can save us. Only the righteousness of Holy God can satisfy the wrath of Holy God, that is why the Father sent the Son.

and finally why would a GOD pray to himself?
http://www.jesuscentral.com/ji/jesus-pa ... raying.php

many versus of the bible say jesus prayed to a god.
so basically he prayed to himself?

Jesus' life as a man is an example for every Christian. Jesus prayed the will of God to the Father, so too Christians are to pray the will of God to the Father.

[Kasey]

^^But it is not logical. It does not make any more sense than the Muslim concept or the Hindu Concept.

Every religion reaches a logical point where it asks believers to 'just believe' because 'anything is possible with god'.

So all religions are possible? (thats if we believe in God)

Simple.