The Religion Discussion

[AdamB]

The Koran is corrupted.

If you examine the source documentation and validity of the Quran compared to the Bible, then certainly you would not make that statement. Rather, you will state that the Bible is more corrupt.

Beliefs not based on knowledge will not earn you any good, for you do not really KNOW, you only follow CONJECTURE!

[metalgear2095]

The Koran is corrupted.

Ignorant statement from ignorant follower!

If you examine the source documentation and validity of the Quran compared to the Bible, then certainly you would not make that statement. Rather, you will state that the Bible is more corrupt.

Beliefs not based on knowledge will not earn you any good, for you do not really KNOW, you only follow CONJECTURE!

Evidence has been provided in this thread explaining why the Koran is corrupted. You bring nothing to prove otherwise. Bring proof. Not a quote from the Koran which wouldn't make sense given my opinion. Bring evidence based on historical data and research.

[metalgear2095]

^ you may think what you follow is the path Allah intended while another Muslim may think the path e follows is the true path. That is why there are various sects and schools in Islam. The same goes for every other religion.

Firstly, there are "various" sects because of deviance from the authentic sunnah and interpretation of the Quran that can be traced back to the prophet as I said above. Deviance because of following of lowly desires.

Secondly, the "schools of thought" in islam have nothing to do with the belief system. It has to do with fiqh, the interpretation of islamic law based on the evidences available, moreso the hadith that were available because the hadith details how all commands were to be executed.

The imams to which these schools are attributed did not intend to form a school. They were just explaining to the best of their ability and giving their rulings based on the hadith at the time. These schools were not simultaneously formed but followed each other in time. They were also students of each other as is the case of Imam ash-Shaafiee and Imam Abu Hanifah.

The problem is the deficiency of their ignorant followers not wanting to leave off their imam's ruling even though:
1. new authentic hadith had been collected (sometimes rulings were based on less than authentic hadith) and
2. their imam instructed to leave off their ruling if authentic hadith came afterward in opposition to their rulings which were based on hasan or good hadith.

What's this new hadith crap you feeding people. If the Koran was so perfect wouldn't it have everything needed in it?

[AdamB]

Metalgear,
Ignorance is bliss for you, as MGMan says "blass-for-me"!

Asking what is hadith, that's ignorance!!

Tell me, your "books" of the New Testament: Who wrote them? Who witnessed those statements? Who can attest to their accuracy and consistency?

[metalgear2095]

Metalgear,
Ignorance is bliss for you, as MGMan says "blass-for-me"!

Asking what is hadith, that's ignorance!!

Tell me, your "books" of the New Testament: Who wrote them? Who witnessed those statements? Who can attest to their accuracy and consistency?

Enlighten me. That's all I ask. You make claims with no evidence to support them

[AdamB]

What's this new hadith crap you feeding people. If the Koran was so perfect wouldn't it have everything needed in it?

A jew at the time of Jesus is reported to have said, "The Torah is so perfect, we have everything needed in it! No need for GOD to have a son, to kill HIS imaginary son to save the sins of the world crap!"

[metalgear2095]

Something like this.

[metalgear2095]

Metalgear,
Ignorance is bliss for you, as MGMan says "blass-for-me"!

Asking what is hadith, that's ignorance!!

Tell me, your "books" of the New Testament: Who wrote them? Who witnessed those statements? Who can attest to their accuracy and consistency?

I was referring to point 2 in your post.

[AdamB]

Metalgear,
Ignorance is bliss for you, as MGMan says "blass-for-me"!

Asking what is hadith, that's ignorance!!

Tell me, your "books" of the New Testament: Who wrote them? Who witnessed those statements? Who can attest to their accuracy and consistency?

Enlighten me. That's all I ask. You make claims with no evidence to support them

WHY? I'm supposed to defend the Quran when you ask but when you are asked the same, you want to pass the buck!

Aren't you already enlightened with the holy spirit? GOD killed HIMSELF to save your sins. You're free, no need to worship GOD.

So to you be your way and to me mine! Cheers!

[AdamB]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HoX5mxBfBoM&feature=youtube_gdata_player
Something like this.

Integrity of Bible and Quran by Christian Media Productions, perfectly unbiased right?

Did you allow the devil to choose your beliefs and religion the same way too? Don't you have a brain for a reason?

[AdamB]

Metalgear,
Ignorance is bliss for you, as MGMan says "blass-for-me"!

Asking what is hadith, that's ignorance!!

Tell me, your "books" of the New Testament: Who wrote them? Who witnessed those statements? Who can attest to their accuracy and consistency?

I was referring to point 2 in your post.

Why didn't you say that?

Since this topic is related to interpretation of laws from scriptures, I am still awaiting an answer from habit7 as to what FEDERAL LAWS christians are supposed to abide by. Can you comment/advise?

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

^ you may think what you follow is the path Allah intended while another Muslim may think the path e follows is the true path. That is why there are various sects and schools in Islam. The same goes for every other religion.

Firstly, there are "various" sects because of deviance from the authentic sunnah and interpretation of the Quran that can be traced back to the prophet as I said above. Deviance because of following of lowly desires.

Secondly, the "schools of thought" in islam have nothing to do with the belief system. It has to do with fiqh, the interpretation of islamic law based on the evidences available, moreso the hadith that were available because the hadith details how all commands were to be executed.

The imams to which these schools are attributed did not intend to form a school. They were just explaining to the best of their ability and giving their rulings based on the hadith at the time. These schools were not simultaneously formed but followed each other in time. They were also students of each other as is the case of Imam ash-Shaafiee and Imam Abu Hanifah.

The problem is the deficiency of their ignorant followers not wanting to leave off their imam's ruling even though:
1. new authentic hadith had been collected (sometimes rulings were based on less than authentic hadith) and
2. their imam instructed to leave off their ruling if authentic hadith came afterward in opposition to their rulings which were based on hasan or good hadith.

you are Sunni, but a Shia would say the same thing of you. You follow only what you THINK is right - that is normal for everyone of every religion.

Someone will not follow a religion if they think it's wrong!

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

The Koran is corrupted.

Ignorant statement from ignorant follower!

If you examine the source documentation and validity of the Quran compared to the Bible, then certainly you would not make that statement. Rather, you will state that the Bible is more corrupt.

Beliefs not based on knowledge will not earn you any good, for you do not really KNOW, you only follow CONJECTURE!

Evidence has been provided in this thread explaining why the Koran is corrupted. You bring nothing to prove otherwise. Bring proof. Not a quote from the Koran which wouldn't make sense given my opinion. Bring evidence based on historical data and research.

the vast majority of scientific data and research contradicts the bible. Evidence based on research does not support Adam and Eve or a 6 day creation.

[AdamB]

^ you may think what you follow is the path Allah intended while another Muslim may think the path e follows is the true path. That is why there are various sects and schools in Islam. The same goes for every other religion.

Firstly, there are "various" sects because of deviance from the authentic sunnah and interpretation of the Quran that can be traced back to the prophet as I said above. Deviance because of following of lowly desires.

Secondly, the "schools of thought" in islam have nothing to do with the belief system. It has to do with fiqh, the interpretation of islamic law based on the evidences available, moreso the hadith that were available because the hadith details how all commands were to be executed.

The imams to which these schools are attributed did not intend to form a school. They were just explaining to the best of their ability and giving their rulings based on the hadith at the time. These schools were not simultaneously formed but followed each other in time. They were also students of each other as is the case of Imam ash-Shaafiee and Imam Abu Hanifah.

The problem is the deficiency of their ignorant followers not wanting to leave off their imam's ruling even though:
1. new authentic hadith had been collected (sometimes rulings were based on less than authentic hadith) and
2. their imam instructed to leave off their ruling if authentic hadith came afterward in opposition to their rulings which were based on hasan or good hadith.

you are Sunni, but a Shia would say the same thing of you. You follow only what you THINK is right - that is normal for everyone of every religion.

Someone will not follow a religion if they think it's wrong!

True but for MOST those thoughts are not based on KNOWLEDGE and EVIDENCE. Most don't question but would defend their religion to the utmost. Like cattle or sheep.

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

^ you may think what you follow is the path Allah intended while another Muslim may think the path e follows is the true path. That is why there are various sects and schools in Islam. The same goes for every other religion.

Firstly, there are "various" sects because of deviance from the authentic sunnah and interpretation of the Quran that can be traced back to the prophet as I said above. Deviance because of following of lowly desires.

Secondly, the "schools of thought" in islam have nothing to do with the belief system. It has to do with fiqh, the interpretation of islamic law based on the evidences available, moreso the hadith that were available because the hadith details how all commands were to be executed.

The imams to which these schools are attributed did not intend to form a school. They were just explaining to the best of their ability and giving their rulings based on the hadith at the time. These schools were not simultaneously formed but followed each other in time. They were also students of each other as is the case of Imam ash-Shaafiee and Imam Abu Hanifah.

The problem is the deficiency of their ignorant followers not wanting to leave off their imam's ruling even though:
1. new authentic hadith had been collected (sometimes rulings were based on less than authentic hadith) and
2. their imam instructed to leave off their ruling if authentic hadith came afterward in opposition to their rulings which were based on hasan or good hadith.

you are Sunni, but a Shia would say the same thing of you. You follow only what you THINK is right - that is normal for everyone of every religion.

Someone will not follow a religion if they think it's wrong!

True but for MOST those thoughts are not based on KNOWLEDGE and EVIDENCE. Most don't question but would defend their religion to the utmost. Like cattle or sheep.

but scientific knowledge and evidence (which is taught in schools and universities) does not support the majority of religious claims for creation.

[rocknrolla]

What's this new hadith crap you feeding people. If the Koran was so perfect wouldn't it have everything needed in it?

A jew at the time of Jesus is reported to have said, "The Torah is so perfect, we have everything needed in it! No need for GOD to have a son, to kill HIS imaginary son to save the sins of the world crap!"

umm the Torah is the jewish bible. maybe with a little research ull begin to see how similar both religious books are. today's jews do share something in common with islam. many muslims ignorantly cast jesus as a false prophet who never lived. in agreement with jews. little do they know that jesus is mentioned in their own book and revered as a prophet.

check these jews.



they probably have no idea that their jewish qabbalah and sephirot are guides on uncovering the divine nature within man (yes i studied these as well and they pointed me straight to the chakra system). and that the christian bible achieves this same goal albeit in a different way.

can these be the same jews Jesus defends in the Christian bible?

[Habit7]

but scientific knowledge and evidence (which is taught in schools and universities) does not support the majority of religious claims for creation.

You are yet to distinguish that scientific knowledge and evidence doesnt contradict the Bible, popular theory and hypothesis do.

[AdamB]

A jew at the time of Jesus is reported to have said, "The Torah is so perfect, we have everything needed in it! No need for GOD to have a son, to kill HIS imaginary son to save the sins of the world crap!"

umm the Torah is the jewish bible.
What an epiphany!
maybe with a little research ull begin to see how similar both religious books are. today's jews do share something in common with islam. many muslims ignorantly cast jesus as a false prophet who never lived.
Who are these muslims? It is clear in the Quran and accepted in islam that Jesus was a true prophet of GOD. Anyone who disbelieves in a single prophet or messenger of GOD, disbelieves in them all. Need I say any more?
in agreement with jews. little do they know that jesus is mentioned in their own book and revered as a prophet.

check these jews.



they probably have no idea that their jewish qabbalah and sephirot are guides on uncovering the divine nature within man (yes i studied these as well and they pointed me straight to the chakra system). Yeah yeah!!and that the christian bible achieves this same goal albeit in a different way.Even though the concept of GOD has been innovated and now incorporates polytheism?

can these be the same jews Jesus defends in the Christian bible?
Which jews did he defend?

Pal,
Does it make sense replying to you at all...with your "Pelau" religious beliefs and incredible claims?

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

but scientific knowledge and evidence (which is taught in schools and universities) does not support the majority of religious claims for creation.

You are yet to distinguish that scientific knowledge and evidence doesnt contradict the Bible, popular theory and hypothesis do.

you said the bible states the earth is ~6000 years old, Scientific evidence shows the earth is billions of years old.

[AdamB]

^ you may think what you follow is the path Allah intended while another Muslim may think the path e follows is the true path. That is why there are various sects and schools in Islam. The same goes for every other religion.

Firstly, there are "various" sects because of deviance from the authentic sunnah and interpretation of the Quran that can be traced back to the prophet as I said above. Deviance because of following of lowly desires.

Secondly, the "schools of thought" in islam have nothing to do with the belief system. It has to do with fiqh, the interpretation of islamic law based on the evidences available, moreso the hadith that were available because the hadith details how all commands were to be executed.

The imams to which these schools are attributed did not intend to form a school. They were just explaining to the best of their ability and giving their rulings based on the hadith at the time. These schools were not simultaneously formed but followed each other in time. They were also students of each other as is the case of Imam ash-Shaafiee and Imam Abu Hanifah.

The problem is the deficiency of their ignorant followers not wanting to leave off their imam's ruling even though:
1. new authentic hadith had been collected (sometimes rulings were based on less than authentic hadith) and
2. their imam instructed to leave off their ruling if authentic hadith came afterward in opposition to their rulings which were based on hasan or good hadith.

you are Sunni, but a Shia would say the same thing of you. You follow only what you THINK is right - that is normal for everyone of every religion.

Someone will not follow a religion if they think it's wrong!

True but for MOST those thoughts are not based on KNOWLEDGE and EVIDENCE. Most don't question but would defend their religion to the utmost. Like cattle or sheep.

but scientific knowledge and evidence (which is taught in schools and universities) does not support the majority of religious claims for creation.

Yet this scientific knowledge and evidence does not know how the universe was created (what really caused it) and they don't know EVERYTHING that exists of the Creation!!

Islam is not in opposition to science, it is in cohesion with it. It may be in opposition to theories that may not have been proven, in which case those theories need to be proven but will surely be disproved...

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

Science does not claim to know everything! It never did.

There is no scientific evidence to support the Adam and Eve story or Noah's flood.

[metalgear2095]

^ you may think what you follow is the path Allah intended while another Muslim may think the path e follows is the true path. That is why there are various sects and schools in Islam. The same goes for every other religion.

Firstly, there are "various" sects because of deviance from the authentic sunnah and interpretation of the Quran that can be traced back to the prophet as I said above. Deviance because of following of lowly desires.

Secondly, the "schools of thought" in islam have nothing to do with the belief system. It has to do with fiqh, the interpretation of islamic law based on the evidences available, moreso the hadith that were available because the hadith details how all commands were to be executed.

The imams to which these schools are attributed did not intend to form a school. They were just explaining to the best of their ability and giving their rulings based on the hadith at the time. These schools were not simultaneously formed but followed each other in time. They were also students of each other as is the case of Imam ash-Shaafiee and Imam Abu Hanifah.

The problem is the deficiency of their ignorant followers not wanting to leave off their imam's ruling even though:
1. new authentic hadith had been collected (sometimes rulings were based on less than authentic hadith) and
2. their imam instructed to leave off their ruling if authentic hadith came afterward in opposition to their rulings which were based on hasan or good hadith.

you are Sunni, but a Shia would say the same thing of you. You follow only what you THINK is right - that is normal for everyone of every religion.

Someone will not follow a religion if they think it's wrong!

True but for MOST those thoughts are not based on KNOWLEDGE and EVIDENCE. Most don't question but would defend their religion to the utmost. Like cattle or sheep.

but scientific knowledge and evidence (which is taught in schools and universities) does not support the majority of religious claims for creation.

Yet this scientific knowledge and evidence does not know how the universe was created (what really caused it) and they don't know EVERYTHING that exists of the Creation!!

Islam is not in opposition to science, it is in cohesion with it. It may be in opposition to theories that may not have been proven, in which case those theories need to be proven but will surely be disproved...

The Koran says the earth is flat and the sun revolves around it. That is not in cohesion with science.

[AdamB]

Science does not claim to know everything! It never did.

There is no scientific evidence to support the Adam and Eve story or Noah's flood.

Is lack of evidence proof that something didn't exist?

If no one identifies the 16yr old student of Waterloo High as the killer of the 14 year old and the murder weapon is not found, is that proof that the latter was not killed?

[RBphoto]

Science does not claim to know everything! It never did.

There is no scientific evidence to support the Adam and Eve story or Noah's flood.

Is lack of evidence proof that something didn't exist?

If no one identifies the 16yr old student of Waterloo High as the killer of the 14 year old and the murder weapon is not found, is that proof that the latter was not killed?

That logic is flawed. The proof of the death of the student is the dead body. The proof of guilt of the 16yr old has to be determined beyond a reasonable doubt by the state. If there is a reasonable doubt, the case will be thrown out. There is reasonable doubt about the origin of the Quoran. It should be thrown out.

[AdamB]

Science does not claim to know everything! It never did.

There is no scientific evidence to support the Adam and Eve story or Noah's flood.

Is lack of evidence proof that something didn't exist?

If no one identifies the 16yr old student of Waterloo High as the killer of the 14 year old and the murder weapon is not found, is that proof that the latter was not killed?

That logic is flawed. The proof of the death of the student is the dead body. The proof of guilt of the 16yr old has to be determined beyond a reasonable doubt by the state. If there is a reasonable doubt, the case will be thrown out. There is reasonable doubt about the origin of the Quoran. It should be thrown out.

Aye look who! Crossdrilled!
Bai, Ramadhan coming up soon...yuh fasting this year?

Doesn't reasonable doubt also mean reasonable reason to try the person? So there is a possibility of guilt.

Bringing it back to religion, fair possibility that the Quran came from GOD for those who are skeptical. It's kinda funny that some will believe in an un-provable GOD but will be certain that HIS book (the Quran) did not come from HIM! Well not funny, that's how disbelievers are identified.

[Habit7]

Science does not claim to know everything! It never did.

There is no scientific evidence to support the Adam and Eve story or Noah's flood.

Duane firstly I gave you scientific evidence for Noah's flood, your response was "nice big words" viewtopic.php?f=4&t=267363&start=14730#p7082376 , yet you still claim absolutely that there is no evidence, you are not being intellectually honest.

Secondly, you demonstrated that you have scientific beliefs that are not based in evidence, why are you holding your beliefs to a different standard than the Bible?

P.S. whether biblical or scientific, the age of the earth is theoretical.

[AdamB]

[quote="AdamB]Yet this scientific knowledge and evidence does not know how the universe was created (what really caused it) and they don't know EVERYTHING that exists of the Creation!!

Islam is not in opposition to science, it is in cohesion with it. It may be in opposition to theories that may not have been proven, in which case those theories need to be proven but will surely be disproved...[/quote]
The Koran says the earth is flat and the sun revolves around it. That is not in cohesion with science.[/quote]

Pal,
How would you know that? Did you read the Quran? Do you know arabic? Please quote from the Quran those quotes you claim above?

The earth is flat: Is not the earth laid out and easy for man to travel / work / etc? Meaning that it is not like the Grand Canyon with mountains all over and cliffs, rivers / lakes / seas, that make it EXTREMELY DIFFICULT for man!! Going to work and back every day is not like driving to Maracas around the mountain cliffs with landslides, etc.

From that perspective, is it not seemingly flat?

[AdamB]

Metalgear,
You probably read that on some christian website critical of Islam...reveal your source, if you are truthful!!

Of course, you are biased but as I said before about the Bible and the Quran....give Islam a fair hearing before you formulate your opinions, don't take other ppl's views hook, line and sinker.

[Habit7]

Pal,
How would you know that? Did you read the Quran? Do you know arabic? Please quote from the Quran those quotes you claim above?

The earth is flat: Is not the earth laid out and easy for man to travel / work / etc? Meaning that it is not like the Grand Canyon with mountains all over and cliffs, rivers / lakes / seas, that make it EXTREMELY DIFFICULT for man!! Going to work and back every day is not like driving to Maracas around the mountain cliffs with landslides, etc.

From that perspective, is it not seemingly flat?

No.

[AdamB]

Pal,
How would you know that? Did you read the Quran? Do you know arabic? Please quote from the Quran those quotes you claim above?

The earth is flat: Is not the earth laid out and easy for man to travel / work / etc? Meaning that it is not like the Grand Canyon with mountains all over and cliffs, rivers / lakes / seas, that make it EXTREMELY DIFFICULT for man!! Going to work and back every day is not like driving to Maracas around the mountain cliffs with landslides, etc.

From that perspective, is it not seemingly flat?

No.

Most will also disbelieve in GOD ALMIGHTY even tho the proof is right on their noses. (Belief and disbelief is not from our perspective but from GOD's perspective....and that is the one that will matter!)

When are you going to state what FEDERAL LAWS christians follow?