The Religion Discussion

[djaggs]

AdamB has no time to waste on trying to defend idiotic quotes from misguided ppl. Didn't even look at what was posted.

Islam can't be judged by what some misguided muslims say or do. They may not even be muslim, could be Shia who are not muslim.

So the Sunnis are correct to kill the Shia ??

[djaggs]

Incidentally, isnt Sunnis who are responsible for the terrorism wreaking havoc all over the world?

It was Sunnis who blew up the towers, sunnis blew up the train in England. Osama was trained by a Sunni muslim , who was a member and follower of the Muslim Brotherhood. The Muslim brotherhood who are Sunni are behind the revolt in Syria that is currently responsible for the deaths of thousands of women and children. The muslim brotherhood was also responsible for the rebellion in Egypt that resulted in the deaths of 1000s of Christians who were living in peace under the previous govt. and now the same is happening to them in Syria.

So what you are saying is that these people who are behind these terrorist acts are true muslims ?

[djaggs]

This is documentary that was shown in Holland about what the muslim brotherhood's objectives are. Its very interesting that the people trying to expose it are muslims who fled Islamic nations for freedom and democracy.

[djaggs]

If you have been wondering why President Hussein has been supporting the Muslim Brotherhood in the middle east to overthrow secular gvernments by given them weapons and money....this documentary may explain why. Note.....there has been a paper trail leading from Obama's campaign financing straight back to Saudi Arabia.

[Habit7]

djaggs one minute you appear to be grounded in facts another minute then you go off the deep end in conspiracy.

[Numb3r4]

I thought this post was about our personal beliefs in God or what motivates us to believe on a higher power....

We have strayed a bit haven't we....

[AdamB]

I know my friend AdamB isnt going to like this but the guy is right:

habit7,
I recommend that you read the article by Yusuff Ali in last Sunday's Newsday on this topic. Ali is a born Trinidadian living in London. His article is the appropriate response to idiots like your guy above and ignorant followers like yourself.

[AdamB]

This is the article for your easy reference:
Britain united in condemnation of soldier’s murder
YUSUFF ALI Sunday, May 26 2013

By now, you would be well aware of the gruesome murder of a British soldier who was killed on a street in Woolwich in broad daylight, just yards from his army barracks in south-east London. Two men, described as terrorists, hacked the soldier to death with a long knife and a machete.

As the men carried out their unspeakable atrocity, they shouted, “Allah O Akbar”, Arabic for God is great. Police arrived on the scene within minutes and were promptly threatened by the men who seemed in no hurry to escape. In fact, they appeared to be more interested in having their photos taken next to their murderous handiwork.

As they approached the officers, one with a gun drawn and the other with the knife and machete, they were shot by police firearms experts, one of whom is said to be a woman. They were taken to separate hospitals and put under heavy guard. One is believed to be from a devout Nigerian Christian family, who converted to Islam a few years ago.

The incident set in motion a series of anti-terrorist measures involving politicians, army personnel, the police, members of the secret service and others. It also led to some interesting statements from people in high places, anxious to make the point that the murder should not be seen as an attack on the Army by Muslims.

Prime Minister David Cameron said, “This was not just an attack on Britain and on the British way of life. It was also a betrayal of Islam and of the Muslim communities who give so much to this country. There is nothing in Islam that justifies this truly dreadful act.
“The people that did this were trying to divide us. They should know that something like this will only bring us together and make us stronger. One of the best ways to defeat terrorism is to go about our normal lives.”

London’s Mayor Boris Johnson said, “It is completely wrong to blame this killing on the religion of Islam. It is also equally wrong to draw any link between this murder and British foreign policy or the actions of British forces risking their lives abroad for freedom.

“The fault lies wholly and exclusively in the warped and deluded mindset of the people who did it. What we need now, for the sake of the victim and his family, is for those killers to be brought to justice.”

Faith and Communities Minister Baroness Warsi, herself a Muslim, said, “I have been incredibly impressed with the way in which the British Muslim communities have so unreservedly condemned this barbaric act and said very clearly that this was not in their name, not in the name of the faith of three million people in this country.”
Deputy Prime Minister Nick Clegg also praised Muslim community leaders for their response. He said, “I am delighted to see this totally unambiguous and united message from the leaders of various Muslim communities, saying this is something they abhor as much as anybody else from any other faith in Britain today.”

Imam Swaleh, of the Greenwich Islamic Centre, said, “We are all very deeply shocked and saddened to have witnessed a terrible crime in our neighbourhood. We do not and will never support such evil acts and strongly suggest that both of these men should be seen as criminals, not as so-called Muslims.”

Julie Siddiqi, of the Islamic Society of Britain, said, “The people who did this do not speak in my name, do not speak for my community or the rest of the country. We have to come out with the strongest condemnation — which is what I am seeing today.”

Farouk Murak, spokesman for the Muslim Council of Britain, said “The attack is an insult against our faith, our community. We must stand united against this kind of criminal activity. Islam does not, under any pretext, give a licence to kill innocent people on our streets.”

But there was a note of caution from US political journalist Glenn Greenwald, who asked, “Was the London killing of a British soldier terrorism?”

He then added, “That this was a barbarous and horrendous act goes without saying. But, given the legal, military, cultural and political significance of the term terrorism, it is vital to ask whether that term is really applicable to this act of violence.”

I think what he said is worth some consideration. Don’t you?

[AdamB]

Please note the above references and quotes - those of you who have said on this thread before that muslim leaders do not condemn acts of violence / terrorism.

[AdamB]

^lol @ western watered down muslim (with ulterior views) calling native Muslim practices misguided

Devout Nigerian Christian = native Muslim???

Are you a Math professor megadoc?

[djaggs]

djaggs one minute you appear to be grounded in facts another minute then you go off the deep end in conspiracy.

Can you explain why the US govt is supporting the muslim brotherhood?? This is not a conspiracy theory it is a fact, dont you read the news ?

[Habit7]

One is believed to be from a devout Nigerian Christian family, who converted to Islam a few years ago.

I think the greater significant part of this sentence comes in the latter clause, but I guess you couldnt miss an opportunity to deflect blame.

I think this latest act in London is unlike all the rest in recent times because the alleged perpetrator took time to be interviewed and explained the driving force of his actions, the corresponding verses from the Quran and a condemnation to others for not doing likewise. First you accused him of being Shia now it is an isolated incident. However, three days later a French convert attempted to do the same n Paris http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/05/ ... 8O20130529

It seems that the "radicals" are outnumbering the liberals.

[djaggs]

This is what is happening under the muslim brotherhood:

http://endtimeheadlines.wordpress.com/2 ... d-protest/

http://www.nationalreview.com/content/o ... 9s-enemies

This is Obama's response-

http://www.upi.com/Business_News/Securi ... 360089495/

Currently the US is supporting the rebels trying to overthrow the Syrian government (a secular govt ). Despite warnings from the Russians..

http://www.wnd.com/2013/04/russia-deliv ... ng-to-u-s/

This is what the oppostion to the Syrian government supports:

http://www.humanevents.com/2013/04/02/i ... permitted/

http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/atla ... m=facebook

The US supported the brotherhood backed overthrow of the Libyan government-

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2013/03/15 ... n-captors/

The Obama administration has now made it illegal for Christians in the military to share their faith:

http://www.wnd.com/2013/05/anti-christi ... -pentagon/

they have also placed Christians as number 1 on a list of groups considered as terrorists-

http://frontpagemag.com/2013/robert-spe ... and-hamas/

Obama confides his Islamist beliefs

http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/atla ... house.html

[djaggs]

In this story, the Obama administration deliberately
removed the sections covering religious freedom from the Country Reports on Human Rights abuses where it pertains to persecuted Christians.

http://frontpagemag.com/2012/raymond-ib ... hristians/

[djaggs]

British politician speaks about the Killing of the British Soldier:

[megadoc1]

^lol @ western watered down muslim (with ulterior views) calling native Muslim practices misguided

Devout Nigerian Christian = native Muslim???

Are you a Math professor megadoc?

yuh trying to hard adamb, try native as in terms of Islam from the east compared to the ones in the west,second the guy did not profess being a christian nor did he kill in the name of the christian God...stop being a liar, there's no information that suggested that the guy is a devout christian...get your facts right at least this is what you posted

One is believed to be from a devout Nigerian Christian family, who converted to Islam a few years ago.

but I don't know who you intend to fool
....devout christian killing in the name of Allah , quoting from the Qur'an and sticking around to die in his jihad? yep surely there is a fool in this ched.... this just go to show how much you willingly delude yourself

[rocknrolla]

LOLS^ conspiracy theories yes. man watch official reports on obama and call them conspiracy,

watch comments on the church hiding pedophaelia among its ranks for decades and call it conspiracy.. not 2 days later the church make a public apology for hiding child molestation within its ranks for decades (it's no secret)


yet he presents his own absolute conspiracy theories to defend his stance when he sees fit.

now is either ppl like adamb are totally brainwashed..

or they intentionally use this double speak, forked tonguedness..

might even be a bit of both.

[djaggs]

Take a look at this video. I dont know if everything they say is true..e.g. about his social security number etc. but he is the first US president who did not grow up in a christian home with christian values. This would probably explain many of the news stories above. A man's values are shaped by the people he has associated with during his life. I suppose you all have heard about the concentration camps that have been built in America ? Nobody seems to be able to say who they were built for.

[djaggs]

This is also very interesting....

[djaggs]

I was surprised to find that extremelypro Obama journalist Rachel Maddow was shocked to hear what Obama plans to do...



This makes me wonder who those detention camps were built to hold.....

[maj. tom]

thread just gone to spam since turbotusty, rocknrolla and djaggs showed up with this agenda.
just don't even click when i see their names on the latest post. yeah of course they have their right to have their say, but...

[rocknrolla]

u all wanted us to post our religious experiences and reason for belief in God. i post mine and explain how it gave me the understanding to champion the truth in all religions. if i have any agenda,it's in helping others who are trying to walk the path i already walked. if ur one of those who dont believe then im afraid u might be in the wrong thread and all ur posts are spam

umm... what?... lol?

[AdamB]

thread just gone to spam since turbotusty, rocknrolla and djaggs showed up with this agenda.
just don't even click when i see their names on the latest post. yeah of course they have their right to have their say, but...

Agreed...

[goalpost]

what the hell happened to this thread? some kind of cleanup required ..

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

^ no cleanup - everyone is entitled to their opinion.

it goes to show though that each person has a unique set of beliefs and almost no two are the same even if they are from the same religion/sect etc. They may share fundamental beliefs but never all completely the same.

[AdamB]

^ no cleanup - everyone is entitled to their opinion.

it goes to show though that each person has a unique set of beliefs and almost no two are the same even if they are from the same religion/sect etc. They may share fundamental beliefs but never all completely the same.

However, it can be shown that in the religion of Islam, the creed (beliefs) are supported by statements from the Quran and the AUTHENTIC sunnah/hadith of prophet Muhammad (prophetic narrations).

The knowledge has been transmitted from the prophet via a chain of narrators and scholars teaching scholars, one authorizing the next to transmit this pure correct knowledge.

After that whoever (muslim) believes otherwise has strayed from the straight path, following their misguided desires.

I will desist from making statements of other religions.

Allah knows best and HE knows the hearts of men, what they reveal and what they conceal...

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

^ you may think what you follow is the path Allah intended while another Muslim may think the path e follows is the true path. That is why there are various sects and schools in Islam. The same goes for every other religion.

[metalgear2095]

^ no cleanup - everyone is entitled to their opinion.

it goes to show though that each person has a unique set of beliefs and almost no two are the same even if they are from the same religion/sect etc. They may share fundamental beliefs but never all completely the same.

However, it can be shown that in the religion of Islam, the creed (beliefs) are supported by statements from the Quran and the AUTHENTIC sunnah/hadith of prophet Muhammad (prophetic narrations).

The knowledge has been transmitted from the prophet via a chain of narrators and scholars teaching scholars, one authorizing the next to transmit this pure correct knowledge.

After that whoever (muslim) believes otherwise has strayed from the straight path, following their misguided desires.

I will desist from making statements of other religions.

Allah knows best and HE knows the hearts of men, what they reveal and what they conceal...

The Koran is corrupted.

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

The Koran is corrupted.

Muslims say the same of the Bible. What makes you right and they wrong?

[AdamB]

^ you may think what you follow is the path Allah intended while another Muslim may think the path e follows is the true path. That is why there are various sects and schools in Islam. The same goes for every other religion.

Firstly, there are "various" sects because of deviance from the authentic sunnah and interpretation of the Quran that can be traced back to the prophet as I said above. Deviance because of following of lowly desires.

Secondly, the "schools of thought" in islam have nothing to do with the belief system. It has to do with fiqh, the interpretation of islamic law based on the evidences available, moreso the hadith that were available because the hadith details how all commands were to be executed.

The imams to which these schools are attributed did not intend to form a school. They were just explaining to the best of their ability and giving their rulings based on the hadith at the time. These schools were not simultaneously formed but followed each other in time. They were also students of each other as is the case of Imam ash-Shaafiee and Imam Abu Hanifah.

The problem is the deficiency of their ignorant followers not wanting to leave off their imam's ruling even though:
1. new authentic hadith had been collected (sometimes rulings were based on less than authentic hadith) and
2. their imam instructed to leave off their ruling if authentic hadith came afterward in opposition to their rulings which were based on hasan or good hadith.