The Religion Discussion

[Numb3r4]

To AdamB

Well you see I have come to this view as a result of exposure to two religions Roman Catholicism and Hinduism.

I firmly believe that the journey to God is personal one. Therefore I must search for what God is to me. The emphasis is what GOD MEANS TO ME.

If it is that God wants something from us what is it? We have had religion for some time now and I don't think we've figured it out yet, and for that matter how would anyone know what he wants unless he told us. Yes he tells us in the good books but it is sometimes mired in so much different interpretations and metaphors you can be come lost.

As God is a personal journey for me I have gravitated to that which I have seen to work for me. If everyone were allowed to come to their own conclusion then maybe just maybe we would begin to embrace each other a little more. We would begin to understand our individual needs and we would be more tolerant of each others' beliefs instead of trying to convince others of your belief's superiority

If everyone were allowed to commune with God we would quicker come to the understanding that there is only one Being as such deities won't really be a problem as we already established there is only one God. We would probably have different names but how is that different from what we have now.

Essentially when you eliminate religion you get rid of the middle man. It becomes more about the journey being the reward and not just the destination.

The reason I look to science (Newton in this case) is because it is proven factually with no room for misinterpretation. Less chance of me getting cast spiritually astray.

I agree we are not purposeless. What I do believe is that just as we are all individuals we are all unique and as such our purposes are unique to our individual existences. Therefore our beliefs and our Journey to God should reflect this.

[DFC]

To rocknrolla

Thank you. I especially like the piece on meditation being key.

But even you would accept that cultivating a habit of proper meditation is not an easy one.

Can anyone PROVE anything they claim of "astral travel" / traversing the heavens with the spirit / soul?

biggest irony in this thread.
Muslims asking for scientific proof. LOL.


Where is the scientific proof Muhammed split the moon. Where is the proof that Allah exists, and is not a borrowed jewish god.?

[marlener]

Well Rocknrolla did say he was more incline to science and seeing that both him and numb3r4 have been using science as their support,I think it is a fair question. Dfc what is your view of their astral travels or even Maj Tom or Duane?

[maj. tom]

"My recommendation is to not believe everything you read on the internet. Peer-reviewed papers are the only scientifically valid sources of information out there."

-Brad Bailey
NLSI Staff Scientist
June 21, 2010

http://lunarscience.nasa.gov/?profile=brad-bailey

[rocknrolla]

"My recommendation is to not believe everything you read on the internet. Peer-reviewed papers are the only scientifically valid sources of information out there."

-Brad Bailey
NLSI Staff Scientist
June 21, 2010

http://lunarscience.nasa.gov/?profile=brad-bailey

if it's one set of ppl who know about OOBE (out of body experiences) it's nasa. i dont have to tell them it's true lol

[maj. tom]

ummm... ok. lol?



What?

[rocknrolla]

well it's a logical conclusion to draw from seeing books written by astronauts/scientists on the subject.

http://www.openexchange.org/archives/JAS04/bailey_mitchell.html

" An Astronaut's Journey:
Edgar Mitchell Explores Enlightenment

Dr. Edgar Mitchell is a graduate of MIT with a doctorate in aeronautics and astronautics. His career as a scientist, test pilot, naval officer, astronaut, author, lecturer, and founder of the Institute of Noetic Sciences, an organization which sponsors research into the nature of consciousness, has been extraordinary. Copies of Dr. Mitchell's book, The Way of the Explorer may be purchased at the Exploring Enlightenment Conference in July in Sunnyvale, where he will be speaking.

How did you answer that question?
It was only after I came back to earth and started researching the mystical literature that I realized that the experience that I was having all the way back home had a name. It's called samadhi in the ancient Sanskrit—the samadhi experience. That's pretty wild!

Was your experience different from that of other astronauts?
Many of my compatriots, like Charlie Duke and Jim Irwin in particular, had very much the same experience, but they described it as looking on the face of God, which is a traditional, mystical or religious way of expressing such experiences. Others came back and began to express their sense of personal amazement and emotion through creativity—painting and poetry, for example.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/045119760 ... mdp_mobile

Description
Former NASA aeronautical engineer and space researcher Albert Taylor believes that there is much we can learn from out-of-body experiences. In this amazing book, he offers an account of his own ...

this i found in just a preliminary search.

what Edgar went in space for, i went deep within. i didnt need a spaceship.. lol

[rocknrolla]

http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/1564149773/ref=mw_dp_mdsc?dsc=1&qid=1369789160&sr=8-1


The Way of the Explorer: An Apollo Astronaut's Journey Through the Material and Mystical Worlds, Revised Edition (Paperback)

From Publishers Weekly

Among authors trying to bridge the gap between science and spirit, former astronaut Mitchell brings unique credentials. Originally scheduled for the ill-fated Apollo 13 mission, Mitchell, as told in this smooth blend of autobiography and exegesis, journeyed to the Moon in 1971 (and generated great controversy over ESP experiments he conducted on the flight). As he gazed on Earth, surrounded by blackness and an unfathomable number of stars, he experienced "an overwhelming sense of universal connectedness" that was to change his life. Within a few years, he had left NASA and founded the Institute of Noetic Sciences, aimed at the systematic study of the nature of consciousness. At the institute, he came to some fascinating conclusions, detailed here and based on principles of resonance, regarding a possible natural explanation for psychic powers. In later years, Mitchell has developed a "dyadic" model of paired opposites-mind/matter, life/death, etc.-that he also covers here and that owes as much to quantum physics' wave/particle duality as to Taoism's yin/yang. Mitchell isn't afraid to go out on a limb; his contention that the universe "intended" to evolve to higher levels, for example, goes against mainstream Western science. He grounds his ideas in data and reason, however, making this a strong offering for those who enjoy the books of Larry Dossey, Ken Wilber and others pushing the envelope of the science/spirit paradigm. BOMC, QPB and One Spirit selections.
Copyright 1996 Reed Business Information, Inc.

see.. told yal i had the royal flush.

not one of my words has been disproved since entry into this thread.

[Numb3r4]

There you go there is a connection between science and spirit, and as I see it; it is a personal journey. Nowhere did it promise anything physical only that of evolution to a higher level.

[maj. tom]

have you met AdamB?

AdamB does not support violence. So, what's your point?

I believe in my religion with absolute certainty. You read a conspiracy theory of the fight for water resources, claiming that's the reason for religion in that region. That's totally ridiculous! We waste water because we have and they conserve because they have to.

Can you and the rest of the scientific community do something to improve the water supply in that region? maybe but only if Allah wills!

Well I'm just now catching up a bit here, so I am straying from all the "science" of the last 10 pages or so.

Conspiracy theory? No it isn't. Obviously you will have a hard time understanding the points made here. Let me cite some research in the Israel-Palestine conflict:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/2982730.stm

http://grist.org/article/blood/

http://www.pij.org/details.php?id=429

http://bakerinstitute.org/publications/rp_2006_005.pdf

And yes water is the reason for the extremist and fundamentalist practice of religion in that region because the struggle for water has always been and will always be the foremost issue in such regions. The Quran was written based on human ideas on how to keep the population in check 1400 years ago in such an arid region. Don't want any rebellions to overthrow the god-chosen tribal leaders over lack of water right? So limit freedoms and then brainwash and suppress any sort of free thinking or liberalism that will threaten the state. Oil becomes globally prominent in the 1950s to bring the region into economic boom, but still lacks water resources and distribution so there is no social reform.

Why doesn't islamic extremism take hold in other regions with high islamic populations, like say Malaysia? Malaysia identifies itself as an Islamic state, but they are not extreme and apply English common law to their land. The Constitution of Malaysia is modeled after Westminster. Sharia law applies to the muslims who choose to live by it. Now look at the Constitution (Basic Law) of Saudi Arabia.

[AdamB]

have you met AdamB?

AdamB does not support violence. So, what's your point?

I believe in my religion with absolute certainty. You read a conspiracy theory of the fight for water resources, claiming that's the reason for religion in that region. That's totally ridiculous! We waste water because we have and they conserve because they have to.

Can you and the rest of the scientific community do something to improve the water supply in that region? maybe but only if Allah wills!

Well I'm just now catching up a bit here, so I am straying from all the "science" of the last 10 pages or so.

Conspiracy theory? No it isn't. Obviously you will have a hard time understanding the points made here. Let me cite some research in the Israel-Palestine conflict:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/2982730.stm

http://grist.org/article/blood/

http://www.pij.org/details.php?id=429

http://bakerinstitute.org/publications/rp_2006_005.pdf

And yes water is the reason for the extremist and fundamentalist practice of religion in that region because the struggle for water has always been and will always be the foremost issue in such regions. The Quran was written based on human ideas on how to keep the population in check 1400 years ago in such an arid region. Don't want any rebellions to overthrow the god-chosen tribal leaders over lack of water right? So limit freedoms and then brainwash and suppress any sort of free thinking or liberalism that will threaten the state. Oil becomes globally prominent in the 1950s to bring the region into economic boom, but still lacks water resources and distribution so there is no social reform.

Why doesn't islamic extremism take hold in other regions with high islamic populations, like say Malaysia? Malaysia identifies itself as an Islamic state, but they are not extreme and apply English common law to their land. The Constitution of Malaysia is modeled after Westminster. Sharia law applies to the muslims who choose to live by it. Now look at the Constitution (Basic Law) of Saudi Arabia.

I think this pretty much sums it up:

Unfortunately, equitable and reasonable are two words that cannot be used to describe the water situation in Israel and Palestine.
At present, Israelis receive five times as much water per person as Palestinians. In Gaza, the disparity is even more striking, with settlers getting seven times as much water as their Palestinian neighbors. Stated differently, on average, Israelis get 92.5 gallons per person per day, while Palestinians in the West Bank get 18.5 gallons per person per day. The minimum quantity of water recommended by the U.S. Agency for International Development and the World Health Organization for household and urban use alone is 26.4 gallons per person per day.

Those articles mention nothing about the fight for water being the cause for the formation of religions in that region. This may be your opinion. Are there any peer-reviewed documents to support your view?

[maj. tom]

No, the latter is my opinion. A question in social science.

I was showing the reason for the never-ending conflict between Israel and Palestine which occurs under the pretext of religion.

Also I am pointing to water as the reason (my logical opinion) for the extremism and fundamentalism with no compromise for the way Islam is practised in the area. AdamB you may consider yourself faithful to the Quran but the fact is you follow the laws of this land. That is compromise.

[AdamB]

Majtom,
You seem to be grasping at straws.

There is nothing wrong with following the law of the land in which you reside. Most of the laws are not in conflict with Islamic law anyway. There are easy ways to abide by the law of the land as well thlaw of Islam like marriage and inheritance. For marriage there is a Muslim Marriage Act and for inheritance a will can be written to distribute wealth islamically.

[nareshseep]

http://www.sacredlotus.com/theory/yinyang.cfm

[nareshseep]

[MG Man]

Allah be praised

[nareshseep]

darn it wrong pic

[Habit7]

484812_483590398382117_642022418_n.jpg

Why stop at chimpanzees? Argue that our DNA are 90% cat, 80% cow, 75% mouse, 60% fruit fly and 50% banana

50% difference between man and banana equates to a lot

[AdamB]

Allah be praised

Subhaan Allah!! (How perfect is Allah!!)

And how perfect is HIS creation!!!

Yet the proponents of Evolution say this all has happened by chance!

[DFC]

Allah be praised

Subhaan Allah!! (How perfect is Allah!!)

And how perfect is HIS creation!!!

Yet the proponents of Evolution say this all has happened by chance!

Under Islamic law, these woman can be legally raped. Like yuhself Adamb.

http://midnightwatcher.wordpress.com/20 ... -be-raped/

[djaggs]

lot of people have read Dawkins book "The God delusion" and have come to the conclusion that what this man says is science. The truth is there are many people in the scientific community that disagree with his assumptions and the scientific reasoning behind it. Dawkins has an agenda, and his book was not meant to be scientific. Please take the time to study the following article carefully. I know it is very long but it is a well written response to Dawkins take on Darwinism and the new "religion" of scientism where science replaces God. You may have to read it twice.

David Berlinski received his Ph.D. in philosophy from Princeton University and was later a postdoctoral fellow in mathematics and molecular biology at Colombia University. He has authored works on systems analysis, differential topology, theoretical biology, analytic philosophy, and the philosophy of mathematics, as well as three novels. He has also taught philosophy, mathematics and English at Stanford, Rutgers, the City University of New York and the Université de Paris. In addition, he has held research fellowships at the International Institute for Applied Systems Analysis in Austria and the Institut des Hautes Études Scientifiques. He lives in Paris.>

(The credentials are for Duane)

THE DENIABLE DARWIN

David Berlinski

The fossil record is incomplete, the reasoning flawed; is the theory of evolution fit to survive?

[djaggs]

Continued....

[djaggs]

Continued......

[Habit7]

I know my friend AdamB isnt going to like this but the guy is right:

[metalgear2095]

So if a Muslim refuses to fight unbelievers he will burn in hell? Sorry Adamb looks like heaven isn't for you.

[rocknrolla]

please be more careful with ur prose.^

trinidad is not currently under kalifah. and im sure adamb is preparing a book to paste into his forum reply to explain that.

kalifah or caliphate is a muslim state/nation/region governed by a muslim clergy.

let that be a lesson to all who would consider electing a muslim government to govern trinidad in elections.

[bluefete]

please be more careful with ur prose.^

trinidad is not currently under kalifah. and im sure adamb is preparing a book to paste into his forum reply to explain that.

kalifah or caliphate is a muslim state/nation/region governed by a muslim clergy.

let that be a lesson to all who would consider electing a muslim government to govern trinidad in elections.

So is that why Ellis Clarke did not make Kamaluddin Mohammed Prime Minister back in 1981??????????????????

[nareshseep]

http://www.religionfacts.com/big_religion_chart.htm

[AdamB]

AdamB has no time to waste on trying to defend idiotic quotes from misguided ppl. Didn't even look at what was posted.

Islam can't be judged by what some misguided muslims say or do. They may not even be muslim, could be Shia who are not muslim.

[megadoc1]

^lol @ western watered down muslim (with ulterior views) calling native Muslim practices misguided