The Religion Discussion

[nareshseep]

[djaggs]

The Evolution Cycle: Watch Out For That Last Step, It’s a Doozy

By: Dr Cornelius Hunter

You know the pattern: First they deny the evidence and blackball, then they acknowledge with caveats, and finally they incorporate the evidence and celebrate. First you’re told you don’t know what you’re talking about, and then you’re told they knew it all along. But beware of that final phase, for as with the Star Wars bar fight scene, when the dust settles nothing has changed. It’s the same old lies, just with new data. Or as Ned Ryerson put it, “It’s a Doozy.” To wit, here is Denis Noble’s new paper on the inheritance of acquired characteristics, epigenetics, physiology, and all that, where Noble admits there was denial but, in fact, evolutionists really knew it all along and, in any case, evolution will simply subsume the once denied evidence anyway:

"The “Modern Synthesis” (Neo-Darwinism) is a mid-twentieth century gene-centric view of evolution, based on random mutations accumulating to produce gradual change through natural selection. Any role of physiological function in influencing genetic inheritance was excluded. The organism became a mere carrier of the real objects of selection: its genes. We now know that genetic change is far from random and often not gradual. Molecular genetics and genome sequencing have deconstructed this unnecessarily restrictive view of evolution in a way that reintroduces physiological function and interactions with the environment as factors influencing the speed and nature of inherited change. Acquired characteristics can be inherited, and in a few but growing number of cases that inheritance has now been shown to be robust for many generations. The twenty-first century can look forward to a new synthesis that will reintegrate physiology with evolutionary biology."


That would be a new new synthesis. Actually a new new new new new new synthesis, but who’s counting? Like Clint Eastwood in A Fistful of Dollars, evolution rises up every time after getting shot down by the evidence. Non random genetic change that responds rapidly to environmental shifts? No problem, evolution did it. It’s a Doozy.

Look at This Incredible Insect Wing Design

A Rational Design



It is intuitively obvious that insect wings, such as these shown from the desert locust, did not evolve from random chance events as evolutionists insist they did, and new research is helping to elucidate the underlying reasons. One glance at the insect wings pictured here reveals something special, but what is it? There is a definite pattern revealed by the crisscrossing veins and the new research demonstrates that the cells formed by the intersecting veins are optimized to minimize the weight of the wing while maximizing the wing’s resistance to cracks. Specifically, the cell’s are sized according to the so-called “critical crack length” which is the length at which a crack becomes a structural threat—a property of the wing material. Cracks shorter than this length tend not to grow and so need not be stopped. So the mechanical properties of the wing material (cuticle), and the structural design of the veins, work together to form an optimized wing. As the research concluded:

"the biomechanical properties and the morphology of locust wings are functionally correlated in locusts, providing a mechanically ‘optimal’ solution with high toughness and low weight."

The research also found that distribution of the cell size across the wing followed the pattern of smaller cells tending to cluster along the wing edges where cracks might be more likely to begin. As one of the researchers concluded:

"Thanks to this precise spacing of the cross veins, the cracks are always stopped before they can reach this critical length and start growing themselves. Nature has found a mechanically “optimal” solution for the locust wings, with a high toughness and a low weight."

It is another example that, as William Bialek has pointed out, biological designs are rational. That is, rather than explaining that the species are the way they are because that is the way they happened to evolve, the species have designs that can be understood according to the underlying engineering and physics principles.

And so using this rational, mathematical, approach to biology the researchers were able to do something that consistently eludes evolutionists—produce a successful prediction:

"An optimal cell size of a grid-like structure such as the wing can be predicted using the “critical crack length” of the membrane, which is determined by the material’s fracture toughness and the stress applied. … An “optimal” wing cell should have a diameter of around 1132 µm. Is this the case in locust wings? Our results show that the distribution of the wing cell size in locust wings corresponds very well to this prediction, with the most common wing-cell “class” being between 1000 and 1100 µm."

These wing designs enable the desert locust to achieve tremendous feats of flying, and the designs are yet another example of evolution’s anti-realism. Biological structures certainly appear to be designed but, evolutionists insist, it is a case of false appearances. The designs are that way because that is how they happened to evolve. That, evolutionists say, is a scientific fact that we must not question.

[rocknrolla]

on the Church during times of Revelation

Babylon Is Fallen

Revelation Chapter 18

1After these things I saw another angel coming down from heaven, having great authority, and the earth was illumined with his glory.2And he cried out with a mighty voice, saying, “Fallen, fallen is Babylon the great! She has become a dwelling place of demons and a prison of every unclean spirit, and a prison of every unclean and hateful bird.3“For all the nations have drunk of the wine of the passion of her immorality, and the kings of the earth have committed acts of immorality with her, and the merchants of the earth have become rich by the wealth of her sensuality.”

4I heard another voice from heaven, saying, “Come out of her (The Church), my people, so that you will not participate in her sins and receive of her plagues;5for her sins have piled up as high as heaven, and God has remembered her iniquities.6“Pay her back even as she has paid, and give back to her double according to her deeds;

here revelation explains that the churches are corrupted, they are sold out for money and church service is seen more as a business than anything to believe in and aspire towards. money is the root of all evil. we are instructed therefore to make our own way in a DIRECT RELATIONSHIP with God.. needing no temple other than the body as a place of worship.

let's not follow the lead of those just because they claim acclaim, but follow the good words of the Book. atheists must acknowledge the Supreme Creator before they gain access to Heaven.. the 7 gates will not open.

Let us not here our religious leaders influencing us to condone homosecuality and gay marriage, for these things are ' a shaming act' for a man to lay with another man as a woman. the church is currently trying to defend this stance of supporting Gay marriage but theyre still unsure of just quite how to sell it but it is being sold and many are buying.

Gay marriage is an abomination! a direct rebellion against the natural laws of creation

The current Pope is the Black Pope.. leader of the Jesuit Order. not the man you see on tv now called the POPE. but his BOSS! the church cannot save you. and it is so very few it has saved. more ppl find enlightenment outside the church than in it. Enlightenment IS SALVATION. this enlightenment traverses all religions and myths and exposes the hidden (revalation) to be seen in the Apocalypse (once hidden now revealed/ Revelation)

Definition of the word *Apocalypse* - Revelation!, that which was once hidden is revealed, the veil is lifted! To see that which once could not be seen, the opening of an eye from blindness.

listen and listen well.

we also have the previous pope's defense and harbouring and concealment of the knowledge of priests taking part in child sex ceremonies and visitting countries where the laws regarding age of consent are extremely low... 13! right in our backyard of Spain! where they love to travel frequently.

[Kasey]

Yep 'FOOTBALL MATCH' Style religios debating here.

[AdamB]

^More hogwash!! The Jews who lived by the OT know nothing of GOD having a son or any of that resurrection drama. Not only is it untrue but there is no need for such blasphemy...ask the Jews.

yeah we see how Jesus dealt with the jews when they tried to kill him for saying he was son

Joh 10:31 Then the people again picked up stones to throw at him.
Joh 10:32 Jesus said to them, "I have done many good deeds in your presence which the Father gave me to do; for which one of these do you want to stone me?"
Joh 10:33 They answered, "We do not want to stone you because of any good deeds, but because of your blasphemy! You are only a man, but you are trying to make yourself God!"
Joh 10:34 Jesus answered, "It is written in your own Law that God said, 'You are gods.'
Joh 10:35 We know that what the scripture says is true forever; and God called those people gods, the people to whom his message was given.
Joh 10:36 As for me, the Father chose me and sent me into the world. How, then, can you say that I blaspheme because I said that I am the Son of God?
Joh 10:37 Do not believe me, then, if I am not doing the things my Father wants me to do.
Joh 10:38 But if I do them, even though you do not believe me, you should at least believe my deeds, in order that you may know once and for all that the Father is in me and that I am in the Father."

Of course, you can't help but quote from the Gospel of John. Who wrote it again? Why was it "written"? To introduce the false blasphemous concepts.

Who Was Jesus?
The Jewish View of Jesus
Stated simply, the Jewish view of Jesus of Nazareth is that he was an ordinary Jewish man and preacher living during the Roman occupation of the Holy Land in the first century C.E. The Romans executed him - and also executed many other nationalistic and religious Jews - for speaking out against Roman authority and abuses.

Was Jesus the Messiah According to Jewish Beliefs?After the death of Jesus, his followers - at the time a small sect of former Jews known as the Nazarenes - claimed he was the Messiah prophesied in Jewish texts and that he would soon return to fulfill the acts required of the Messiah. The majority of contemporary Jews rejected this belief and Judaism as a whole continues to do so today. Eventually, Jesus became the focal point of a small Jewish religious movement that would evolve into the Christian faith.

Jews do not believe that Jesus was divine, the Son of God, or the Messiah prophesied in Jewish scriptures. He is seen as a "false messiah," meaning someone who claimed (or whose followers claimed for him) the mantle of the Messiah but who ultimately did not meet the requirements laid out in Jewish beliefs. According to Jewish scripture and belief, the true Messiah (pronounced "moshiach" in Hebrew) must meet the following requirements. He must:

•Be an observant Jewish man descended from the house of King David
•Be an ordinary human being (as opposed to the Son of God)
•Bring peace to the world
•Gather all Jews back into Israel
•Rebuild the ancient Temple in Jerusalem
•Unite humanity in the worship of the Jewish God and Torah observance
Because Jesus did not meet these requirements, from the Jewish perspective he was not the Messiah.

but how is this becomes true to you, if you Muslim folks believe Jesus is the messiah or a true prophet as prophesied in the Jewish scriptures? the Jews thinks he was a false prophet and rejected him as such but islam totally disagree with them on that ,so why are you quoting from those who strongly disagree with your views on Jesus? just so you can make a point against those who views on Jesus you disagree with? what a crank!

My post was not about what muslims believe but WHAT THE JEWS BELIEVE. They are the ones to whom the prophets of the bible were sent, so they should know best what has been claimed about GOD having a son, etc. What I attempted to do was to present the discrepancy between:
* the claim that the OT said that GOD has or had or would have a son and
* the reality of the belief of those (jews) to whom the OT revelations were sent (opposing the GOD has a son concept).

[AdamB]

Well I know that you are fairly new to the discussion (at least since I joined it) so I will quote a prior posting

Christians interpret the OT through the NT, so if the NT doesn't reiterate a OT principle in the NT we don't carry it over. That being generally said, it is important to note that in the Pentateuch there are moral laws (eg 10 commandments), ceremonial laws (for sacrificial system) and the federal law (to govern the Israelites). With the exception of the Sabbath, all the moral law is repeated in the NT and we follow it. The ceremonial law was done away with as Christ is the once and for all sacrifice and the federal law doesn't apply to any of us now because we don't live in pre-first century theocratic Israel. However Christians study these abrogated laws to understand the character of God but we don't practise them.

So your example of Exodus 35:1-3 falls in the category of the federal law. This law that required capital punishment, was specific to the Jews, living in the Jewish land only at that time. Since the theocratic Jewish nation has come to an end since 70 A.D. and Jesus announced that the Sabbath day rest pointed to Him, and those who put their trust in Him will receive the eternal rest from work in salvific relationship with Him, the Sabbath day rest is not observed by Christians in the same sense as it was in the Old Testament.[/quote]
This is all such hogwash...those who don't know any better may accept it, just as you have done.

The jews, who were the "possessors" of the law and the OT scriptures, should interpret it according to the NT? How silly of them! They should have waited for hundreds or thousands of years for the NT to "interpret" their scriptures.

The question is: What "federal" laws do christians have to follow?

Another question: In what SENSE is the Sabbath day rest observed by christians? (NON-SENSE it seems...but let's have your answer.)

Last question: What is the basis for these claims? If you examine the evidence you will see that it is based on scripture that could be interpreted many ways, not only the way that you have chosen to interpret it. In addition, there would be clear scriptures that would contradict those which you bring to court. So let's see then...

The above was the post in response to the 3 sets of laws and OT being interpreted by the NT.

Habit7 - waiting on response to my 3 questions above, bold enlarged for your easy attention, in case you missed it.

[AdamB]

Yep 'FOOTBALL MATCH' Style religios debating here.

Not much debating really, just trolling (note Djaggs and rocknrolla)...or sorry fellowship as they like to call it.

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

Cornelius G. Hunter is an adjunct professor, meaning non-essential. Further more he is at Biola University which is a private, evangelical Christian university in California.

He is hardly an authority of anything other than selling books attempting to debunk the findings of natural science.

Cornelius argues:
"Evolution theory has grown more complex since Darwin's time.
The principle of parsimony says that given two theories that both explain something equally well, we should prefer the simplest of the two.
God's magic is a simpler explanation for the complexity of life than our understanding of DNA's evolution.
Therefore, evolution is wrong and creationism is right."

"God's magic did it. That's the simplest explanation so we should all go with that." - REALLY?!! That's a scientist?

[AdamB]

Cornelius G. Hunter is an adjunct professor, meaning non-essential. Further more he is at Biola University which is a private, evangelical Christian university in California.

He is hardly an authority of anything other than selling books attempting to debunk the findings of natural science.

Cornelius argues:
"Evolution theory has grown more complex since Darwin's time.
The principle of parsimony says that given two theories that both explain something equally well, we should prefer the simplest of the two.
God's magic is a simpler explanation for the complexity of life than our understanding of DNA's evolution.
Therefore, evolution is wrong and creationism is right."

"God's magic did it. That's the simplest explanation so we should all go with that."'

Magic is forbidden in Islam.

Muslims prefer the view that science unveils the theory of HOW GOD did things, whether it be creation or the laws of science in the Universe itself.

[AdamB]

on the Church during times of Revelation

Babylon Is Fallen

Revelation Chapter 18

1After these things I saw another angel coming down from heaven, having great authority, and the earth was illumined with his glory.2And he cried out with a mighty voice, saying, “Fallen, fallen is Babylon the great! She has become a dwelling place of demons and a prison of every unclean spirit, and a prison of every unclean and hateful bird.3“For all the nations have drunk of the wine of the passion of her immorality, and the kings of the earth have committed acts of immorality with her, and the merchants of the earth have become rich by the wealth of her sensuality.”

4I heard another voice from heaven, saying, “Come out of her (The Church), my people, so that you will not participate in her sins and receive of her plagues;5for her sins have piled up as high as heaven, and God has remembered her iniquities.6“Pay her back even as she has paid, and give back to her double according to her deeds;

here revelation explains that the churches are corrupted, they are sold out for money and church service is seen more as a business than anything to believe in and aspire towards. money is the root of all evil. we are instructed therefore to make our own way in a DIRECT RELATIONSHIP with God.. needing no temple other than the body as a place of worship.

let's not follow the lead of those just because they claim acclaim, but follow the good words of the Book. atheists must acknowledge the Supreme Creator before they gain access to Heaven.. the 7 gates will not open.

Let us not here our religious leaders influencing us to condone homosecuality and gay marriage, for these things are ' a shaming act' for a man to lay with another man as a woman. the church is currently trying to defend this stance of supporting Gay marriage but theyre still unsure of just quite how to sell it but it is being sold and many are buying.

Gay marriage is an abomination! a direct rebellion against the natural laws of creation

The current Pope is the Black Pope.. leader of the Jesuit Order. not the man you see on tv now called the POPE. but his BOSS! the church cannot save you. and it is so very few it has saved. more ppl find enlightenment outside the church than in it. Enlightenment IS SALVATION. this enlightenment traverses all religions and myths and exposes the hidden (revalation) to be seen in the Apocalypse (once hidden now revealed/ Revelation)

Definition of the word *Apocalypse* - Revelation!, that which was once hidden is revealed, the veil is lifted! To see that which once could not be seen, the opening of an eye from blindness.

listen and listen well.

we also have the previous pope's defense and harbouring and concealment of the knowledge of priests taking part in child sex ceremonies and visitting countries where the laws regarding age of consent are extremely low... 13! right in our backyard of Spain! where they love to travel frequently.

Please, enough with the conspiracy theories....do like turbotusty, take time off and go write the book that will enlighten the world.

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

^ scientific research and findings are showing that modem day humans evolved from apes at a point in our evolutionary history and we carry 96% similar DNA.

The Adam and Eve story does not sync with scientific findings.

How do you justify that? Or is it that you also are going to ignore only the scientific findings that don't agree with your religious beliefs?

[megadoc1]

[color=#0000FF]My post was not about what muslims believe but WHAT THE JEWS BELIEVE.

true but my point is the moment you start there your own belief system is contradicted,you cannot put forth an argument that you don't even believe is true in the first place

They are the ones to whom the prophets of the bible were sent, so they should know best what has been claimed about GOD having a son, etc.

since they know best would you accept the fact that they know fuh sure that muhamed is not one of the prophets sent by God?
if you intend to give authority to the Jews on the matter you are worst off from where you started WRT islam

What I attempted to do was to present the discrepancy between:
* the claim that the OT said that GOD has or had or would have a son and
* the reality of the belief of those (jews) to whom the OT revelations were sent (opposing the GOD has a son concept).

no need to present this ,the bible did this already look some examples here
Isa 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given; and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.

and what I posted before

Joh 10:31 Then the people again picked up stones to throw at him.
Joh 10:32 Jesus said to them, "I have done many good deeds in your presence which the Father gave me to do; for which one of these do you want to stone me?"
Joh 10:33 They answered, "We do not want to stone you because of any good deeds, but because of your blasphemy! You are only a man, but you are trying to make yourself God!"
Joh 10:34 Jesus answered, "It is written in your own Law that God said, 'You are gods.'
Joh 10:35 We know that what the scripture says is true forever; and God called those people gods, the people to whom his message was given.
Joh 10:36 As for me, the Father chose me and sent me into the world. How, then, can you say that I blaspheme because I said that I am the Son of God?
Joh 10:37 Do not believe me, then, if I am not doing the things my Father wants me to do.
Joh 10:38 But if I do them, even though you do not believe me, you should at least believe my deeds, in order that you may know once and for all that the Father is in me and that I am in the Father."

[Habit7]

Topic switch, how convenient...

Duane I guess you are trying to pit the Bible against the theory of evolution or the big bang theory. The reality is that they are theories, not laws. While you might be thumping a textbook now (although I sometimes have to correct you on even the science you believe in) you fail to acknowledge that even within the adherents of these theories there are wide variants of views that you would want the Bible to agree with everyone of them. Suppose the Bible did agree with the theory of big bang and tomorrow you watch one of your documentaries that proposes another theory I guess you would want the Bible to agree with that one too?

You need to distinguish facts from theory. There are those who believe the theories you adhere to, and there are those who disagree (even from outside the Christian camp), both sides have learned professionals who have studied both sides and have come to their conclusions based on fact, they dont just watch documentaries and read up wiki sites.

If you want to attack the Bible, attack it with facts, dont attempt to use amorphous theories that even you dont fully grasp. If your argument cannot be made 100 year prior or 100 years future, it wasnt grounded in truth.

BTW I dont know if you are aware

The Adam and Eve story does not sync with scientific findings.

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news ... lls_2.html

[Habit7]

1 Corinthians 2:10-16 For to us God revealed them through the Spirit; for the Spirit searches all things, even the depths of God. For who among men knows the thoughts of a man except the spirit of the man which is in him? Even so the thoughts of God no one knows except the Spirit of God. Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, so that we may know the things freely given to us by God, which things we also speak, not in words taught by human wisdom, but in those taught by the Spirit, combining spiritual thoughts with spiritual words.

But a natural man does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually appraised. But he who is spiritual appraises all things, yet he himself is appraised by no one. For who has known the mind of the Lord, that he will instruct Him? But we have the mind of Christ.

Sadly AdamB, as you are not a Christian you cannot properly interpret Scripture. I have seen you work with Isaiah 29 in an attempt to squeeze blood out of stone and claim it prophesies Mohammed while Mormons attempt the same to validate Joseph Smith. What sense is it in me explaining to you the Scriptures when you quote it (with errors) when you believe it is convenient to you, and when it condemns and convicts you, you claim it was redacted. That is duplicitous.

If you want me to back up my beliefs from the Bible please clearly outline which sections of the Bible you believe are uncorrupted and consistent with Islam, and conversely point out which sections those evil Christians altered and changed from its true Islamic content.




BTW good job on informing us what Jews think about Jesus, even though they crucifying Him already gave us somewhat of a picture. Can you also post what Jews think of Mohammed and his claims about the Torah, Psalms and the Jewish forefathers?

[rocknrolla]

cheers to adamb trying to dominate the thread with misdirection and meaningless quotes from a quran he cant even enterpret. pretending to be of some learned faculty whilst attempting a recruitment drive.
adamb's understanding of scripture in ANY religious doctrine can only be classified as religious FANATICISM. with blind violent corruption of the scriptures his determination of faith.

reading words written by the hands of men and deeming it perfect in all it's ways. a fool who doesnt see and will close his eyes to ensure he doesnt see the truth that God himself dictates that NOTHING IN THIS WORLD IS PERFECT. NOTHING DONE BY THE HANDS OF A MAN, PROPHET OR OTHERWISE IS PERFECT.

THIS WORLD IS OF THE FLESH AND THE FLESH INS INHERENTLY CORRUPTED. so follow ur blind pontiffs who do not have true sight and cannot claim to in any earnesty. i can tell mr adamb that on the day of judgement i will be standing tall and not wailing for failure like most. since i already know my standing in the hierarchy of the divine.

ISLAM IS A FLAWED RELIGION. DEAL WITH IT. ISLAM TODAY IS AS CORRUPT AS THE CATHOLIC CHURCH BUT WORSE IN IT'S BARBARIANISM ASPECTS THAT IT SEEMS TO FIND JUSTIFIED. the interpretters and so-called learned scholars that come out of islam are among the worst abominations in the interpretation of scripture.

KNOW THEM BY THEIR FRUIT. AND THE FRUIT OF ISLAM IS OBVIOUSLY VISIBLY TARNISHED WITH IMPOSTERS OF ANY SORT OF DIVINE ASPIRATIONS. YOU MARTYRS WILL NOT BE FORGIVEN. THEY DIED FOR NOTHING!

BRAINWASHED FOOLS

[djaggs]

Cornelius G. Hunter is an adjunct professor, meaning non-essential. Further more he is at Biola University which is a private, evangelical Christian university in California.

He is hardly an authority of anything other than selling books attempting to debunk the findings of natural science.

Cornelius argues:
"Evolution theory has grown more complex since Darwin's time.
The principle of parsimony says that given two theories that both explain something equally well, we should prefer the simplest of the two.
God's magic is a simpler explanation for the complexity of life than our understanding of DNA's evolution.
Therefore, evolution is wrong and creationism is right."

"God's magic did it. That's the simplest explanation so we should all go with that." - REALLY?!! That's a scientist?

Duane, I dont think literalism was intended when He used the word magic he was deliberately being simplistic. Also, I think having a Phd in Biophysics and computational Biology gives a person a certain amount of expertise. I did not post everything that he wrote because it is too long. His arguments are very valid. Creationism follows the belief that the Universe follows rational laws, evoloution follows the belief that there is no rationality in the laws of the universe, everything is random.

And you keep saying that evoloution is a science fact when it is a theory that keeps changing whenever new information comes to hand. It has never been able to predict anything as good scientific theories should.

This is what Sir Isaac Newton wrote:

This most beautiful system of the sun, planets, and comets, could only proceed from the counsel and dominion of an intelligent Being. . . . This Being governs all things, not as the soul of the world, but as Lord over all; and on account of his dominion he is wont to be called “Lord God” παντοκρατωρ [pantokratòr], or “Universal Ruler”. . . . The Supreme God is a Being eternal, infinite, absolutely perfect.’2[/i[i]]‘Opposition to godliness is atheism in profession and idolatry in practice. Atheism is so senseless and odious to mankind that it never had many professors.’

[bluefete]

So they never told you that Bob Marley was a Christian when he died???

http://beginningandend.com/bob-marley-r ... us-christ/

[rocknrolla]

FURHTERMORE @AdamB

"Then WE sent Our Messengers one after another. Every time there came to a people their Messenger, they treated him as a liar.… " (Ch.23:V.45)

i ask AGAIN!!!! WHO IS WE in the Quran when you claim that God is ONE? asked earlier where you run and hide and come back and NEVER ANSWER... You claim the Holy Trinity is a farce.. yet your own quran references "WE". Who is WE that sends prophets if not God? and why does he speak of himself as WE?

"Alas for My servants! There comes not a Messenger to them but they mock at him." (Ch.36:V.31)


and Finally!

Verily, those who annoy Allah and His Messenger—Allah has cursed them in this world and in the Hereafter, and has prepared for them an abasing punishment. And those who malign believing men and believing women for what they have not earned shall bear the guilt of calumny and a manifest sin. (Ch.33:Vs.58-59)

so know what you doing. continue to utter words of the brutish ignoramus in doubt and disbelief!

[Numb3r4]

Religion is of man and as such will always be plagued with problems? What we have to concentrate on is becoming closer with the greater cosmic truths eg. Put good in get good out, understanding the finer points of karma etc. and their are others.

What we have to do is concentrate on the greater good and be grateful for all the things that we have. We should not wait for that one singular moment to kindle our belief. We should instead look to every act as an opportunity to cultivate our belief in something greater than ourselves. Everyday is a day to change our attitude to God and the Universe in general.

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

Topic switch, how convenient...

Duane I guess you are trying to pit the Bible against the theory of evolution or the big bang theory. The reality is that they are theories, not laws. While you might be thumping a textbook now (although I sometimes have to correct you on even the science you believe in) you fail to acknowledge that even within the adherents of these theories there are wide variants of views that you would want the Bible to agree with everyone of them. Suppose the Bible did agree with the theory of big bang and tomorrow you watch one of your documentaries that proposes another theory I guess you would want the Bible to agree with that one too?

You need to distinguish facts from theory. There are those who believe the theories you adhere to, and there are those who disagree (even from outside the Christian camp), both sides have learned professionals who have studied both sides and have come to their conclusions based on fact, they dont just watch documentaries and read up wiki sites.

If you want to attack the Bible, attack it with facts, dont attempt to use amorphous theories that even you dont fully grasp. If your argument cannot be made 100 year prior or 100 years future, it wasnt grounded in truth.

BTW I dont know if you are aware

The Adam and Eve story does not sync with scientific findings.

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news ... lls_2.html

LOL you are clearly full of yourself.

Also that NatGeo article contradicts your beliefs very much. Especially your young earth beliefs. The name "Adam" is used to refer to the earliest evidence of Homo sapiens. It is metaphorical and not a search for Adam who God made from dirt and the made Eve from his rib.

[Habit7]

As opposed to Big Bang theory where all life traces back to star dust.

You are calling me and others illogical and when we give you logical answers you are dismissing them and changing topic. I have answered most of your questions to the best of my ability, no matter how controversial and counter-culture, and I have not appealed to blind faith but substantial reason. All this while you have brought inexact facts and a contradictory logic that you refuse to claim ownership to. My hope is that you dont hide behind the cloak scientific theory but either receive or reject God on the basis of who He says He is, not who you want Him to be.

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

As opposed to Big Bang theory where all life traces back to star dust.

You are calling me and others illogical and when we give you logical answers you are dismissing them and changing topic. I have answered most of your questions to the best of my ability, no matter how controversial and counter-culture, and I have not appealed to blind faith but substantial reason. All this while you have brought inexact facts and a contradictory logic that you refuse to claim ownership to. My hope is that you dont hide behind the cloak scientific theory but either receive or reject God on the basis of who He says He is, not who you want Him to be.

im not hiding.

You are making claims that I'm questioning. You say the earth is ~6000 years old, dinosaurs walked with men, a flood killed all but 8 humans & a pair of each animal in earth and that the earth was literally made in 6 days and I'm saying there is no scientific proof of that.

I've also asked what makes your beliefs right and those of another religion wrong.

You keep thinking that you are answering me but you are not. Your claims have no support other than from some unscientific YEC website.

If there was substantial reason to support your beliefs then it would be used as fact in schools, universities, research labs and scientific facilities. Unless of course you think there is some conspiracy.

As I pointed out numerous times, one of the main adherents you posted, Jason Lisle from the Creationist Museum said if evidence is found that contradicts the Bible, we should ignore the evidence and go with what the Bible says. That is illogical.

[Habit7]

I see a world covered by predominantly sedimentary rock mostly by fluvial mechanisms, showing rapid deposition, lay down strata after strata with either no erosion between them or unconformities where layer of strata rapidly eroded, reorientated, and new strata is deposited. I see plant and animals fossilised as a result of rapid deposition, the earliest animal fossils being those most affected by high turbidity such as marine arthropods, gastropods, ostracods and other marine invertebrate organisms which make up most of our fossil record. I see rapid deformation of the earth crust as the Bible says "all the fountains of the great deep burst open" and we later observed it to result as plate tectonics. Furthermore, I see sedimentary structures like fossilised raindrop marks or deformed/bent stata without the cracks as brittle rock normal performs but smooth curvatures without the indications of metamorphic deformation by heat and pressure.
At the end of the day we both have the same evidences, it just a matter of which worldview we see it from. There are many others within the field of geology who are not educated by wikipedia but have offered proof for a global flood but does it matter, in your absolute conclusion there is no proof.

^ nice big words.

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=267363&start=14730#p7082376

But then you go on to say there is no scientific proof.

As I pointed out numerous times, one of the main adherents you posted, Jason Lisle from the Creationist Museum said if evidence is found that contradicts the Bible, we should ignore the evidence and go with what the Bible says. That is illogical.

Isn't it equally illogical that you are denying the truth Bible because it contradicts today's version of the Big Bang and evolution theory?

[nareshseep]

As opposed to Big Bang theory where all life traces back to star dust.

You are calling me and others illogical and when we give you logical answers you are dismissing them and changing topic. I have answered most of your questions to the best of my ability, no matter how controversial and counter-culture, and I have not appealed to blind faith but substantial reason. All this while you have brought inexact facts and a contradictory logic that you refuse to claim ownership to. My hope is that you dont hide behind the cloak scientific theory but either receive or reject God on the basis of who He says He is, not who you want Him to be.

This is where it gets interesting ...who says what God is? Was it not the men who wrote the religious texts who said what God is? And don't start the crap that they were inspired. Books of fiction that have become fact; that's what these books are. Very useful for society, family where order is crucial to control the young, uneducated and illogical. If I am to believe that these text are real then we might as well believe in the Lord of the Rings. The stories in all these good texts are good in guiding the way one lives one life but are to be taken metaphorical and not literally. No one here have seen GOD but all here can agree that there are things that we cannot explain. Some may believe that the explanation is of GOD and leave it at that, bringing peace to their mind and allowing them to sleep peacefully at night. Some folks will not accept that and will search to find the answers and that's where we get closer to finding the truth.

"Keep on asking, and you will receive what you ask for. Keep on seeking, and you will find. Keep on knocking, and the door will be opened to you." Matthew 7:7



The law is blind and so to is the truth. Any "statement" can be argued to be true or false, it all depends on how good the lawyer is. There are criminals walking the streets only because they have hired the best lawyers. Has me thinking now that's it weird that you have to swear on a religious text when taking an oath. Makes you wonder who originally was in charge of the court, the govt , the church or both. Hmm

[Habit7]

^^^I reject the above post: it was written by man and it tells us how we should approach the topic of God.

[nareshseep]

^^^I reject the above post: it was written by man and it tells us how we should approach the topic of God.

HAHAHAHHAHAH rofl!!! ways!!!!!!!!!!!

Habit7 you do know what you jess did right

[Habit7]

carry your post to its logical conclusion?

[nareshseep]

carry your post to its logical conclusion?

Yes and I rest my case.

[rocknrolla]

and concluded ur own arguement admitting hypocrisy HABIT7 LOL
ull most likely have to retract that statement to debate further. but ull both end up back at a stalemate.

just as i said before, religious ppl put their faith in an invisible Supreme Being.

while science and scientists.. particularly atheist scientists put their faith in the THEORIES(Guesses) of men. most of the time, great scientists who they quote like textbook regurgitators were men of God who attributed much of their understanding to a belief in the Supreme Diety.

Hypocrits all round. everyone meets the paradox with hypocrisy. who created God? i said.. it's none of your business if u dont even know who created You!

[AdamB]

FURHTERMORE @AdamB

"Then WE sent Our Messengers one after another. Every time there came to a people their Messenger, they treated him as a liar.… " (Ch.23:V.45)
So HE has sent Muhammad as a Messenger and you treat him as a liar!

i ask AGAIN!!!! WHO IS WE in the Quran when you claim that God is ONE? asked earlier where you run and hide and come back and NEVER ANSWER... You claim the Holy Trinity is a farce.. yet your own quran references "WE". Who is WE that sends prophets if not God? and why does he speak of himself as WE?
Really Pal, if you have to ask that question, then you may almost have the intelligence of a gnat!! THIS ONE REALLY TAKES THE CAKE ON THIS THREAD...


"Alas for My servants! There comes not a Messenger to them but they mock at him." (Ch.36:V.31)
So, do you mock at Muhammad?

and Finally!

Verily, those who annoy Allah and His Messenger—Allah has cursed them in this world and in the Hereafter, and has prepared for them an abasing punishment. And those who malign believing men and believing women for what they have not earned shall bear the guilt of calumny and a manifest sin. (Ch.33:Vs.58-59)
Your blasphemy and saying that Allah has a son IS annoying HIM!

so know what you doing. continue to utter words of the brutish ignoramus in doubt and disbelief!

So who is the one really infected with the disease of DOUBT AND DISBELIEF?? Your belief that GOD is a Trinity has made you a POLYTHEISTIC DISBELIEVER!!