TTASA management dissolved - UPDATE Pg.10

[link]

well...
the TTASA Constitution has been declared rubbish....

[FugiTECH]

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

Link Sampath, former Vice President of TTASA, sent this letter out to the TTASA membership via email earlier today:

Members,
SINCE WHEN DID VISHNU MANGALSINGH BECOME TTASA PRESIDENT ?
AM I SHOUTING....WELL I BEG YOUR PARDON....LOOK AT THE FIA WEBSITE...(weblink posted below with excerpt copied)
I WOULD LIKE TO SEE WHAT AUTHORISATION WENT TO FIA TO EFFECT THIS CHANGE...AND FROM WHO.
DO I DARE SAY THAT PEOPLE ARE SO ANXIOUS TO TAKE CONTROL THAT, IN ADDITION TO UNCONSTITUTIONALLY PREVENTING MEMBERSHIP FROM LEGALLY VOTING A NEW MANAGEMENT COMMITTEE, MISLEADING INFORMATION AS TO TTASA's STATUS IS BEING SPREAD WORLDWIDE.
.
i WONDER WHAT THE CHAIRMAN OF THE BOARD OF TRUSTEES -VISHNU MANGALSINGH- HAS TO SAY ABOUT THIS, ESPECIALLY SINCE LEGAL OPINION PRIOR TO THE ALI PRESIDENCY STATED CLEARLY THAT A TRUSTEE CANNOT ALSO HOLD THE OFFICE OF PRESIDENT.
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Trustee Chairman Mangalsingh...I am sorry....I cannot stay quiet any longer as you asked me to.....I am seeing a travesty of justice being perpetrated upon TTASA Membership & the entire motor sport community of T&T by this blatant grab for power....
I beg of you , Mr.Chairman.....honour the TTASA Constitution and encourage membership to attend the Special General Meeting to vote a Management quorum & call an early AGM so that TTASA can continue it's important work as NGB & FIA ASN.
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You may try to convice me of bringing the Association into disrepute...BUT TELL ME, HOW CAN THE TRUTH BE DISHONOURABLE ?
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I am holding to an absolute faith that the TTASA Constitution is a fair, honourable, developmental, far-reaching document that paves the way for proper foundation development of all motor sport organisations in T&T.
Yet I am being maligned & chastised for speaking out against injustice. Isn't my justicealso being denied ?
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Membership.....demand answers...don't be railroaded, sandbagged or misled...demand answers supported by documented evidence.
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Link Sampath....yes..I am not afraid to put (OR SIGN) my name
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rgds


http://www.fia.com/about-fia/member-clubs

TRINIDAD AND TOBAGO AUTOMOBILE SPORTS ASSOCIATION (TTASA)
SPORT
Tragarete Road
-
ST JAMES
Trinidad and Tobago
Tel:
(+1 868) 766 97 18
Fax:
(+1 868) 222 79 58
Web:
http://www.ttasa.com
President:
Vishnu Mangalsingh

however this letter was sent to the FIA President Mr. Jean Todt by the Chairman of the TTASA Board of Trustees

[SR]

and the plot thickens

[FugiTECH]

[jaggie]

Just my .02...all them high profile people with all this "wealth of knowledge and experience" and this sheit happen! Lots of talk and no clear way forward.....
WAIT!.... Wait till the someone figures out that we are all just a bunch of bitchin grown kids and can't see pass our differences or work together and then invite a foreign private body/Org to run the show...........then see who will be left standing...........

We wanted a new begining, well here is that chance..........

[link]

Just my .02...all them high profile people with all this "wealth of knowledge and experience" and this sheit happen! Lots of talk and no clear way forward........

the Constitution is CLEAR :
11 :2 (f) The Management is deemed to have collapsed when there isn’t a management
quorum of five elected members currently holding office. In such a case, to ensure continuity of the association’s business, a Trustee or Trustees shall be appointed by the Chairman of the Board of Trustees to fill the vacant position/s to form a quorum until a Special General Meeting is held. This Special General Meeting must be held no later than three months after the management committee is deemed to have collapsed.

12 : 2 (g) Vacancies will be filled by Bye Election at a Special General Meeting of which
twenty five (25) fully financial members present shall form a quorum. Such bye
election must be held no later than three months after the position

SPECIAL GENERAL MEETING
15 : (a). The Honorary Secretary shall convene a Special General Meeting whenever instructed to do so by the President or on the written requisition of the Committee, or on the requisition of twenty five Financial members, and such requisition shall state the business to be transacted at such a meeting.
.
the Chairman of the Trustees has violated the Constitution by not acting immediately upon section 11:2(f) to rectify the collapse of management which occurred on 13dec12.
This is the same Trustee Vishnu Mangalsingh who jumped up at the regular monthly meeting when I submitted a motion of no-confidence in then President Ali and declared to all present that 'according to the Constitution, this matter has to be referred to the Trustees'.
.
It is this same person who is refusing to uphold that same Constitution now & facilitating illegal activities by the Board of Trustees arising from his dereliction of duties regarding section 11:2(f).
The same person who called me up by phone & stated "I am going to sue you for libel..." because I emailed a copy of the FIA website info/weblink showing Vishnu mangalsingh listed as TTASA President and queried the legality/authorisation of this info/action.
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This is the same person who has dispatched an intimidatory legal letter to President Ali (till 31jan13) when he (Ali), realising that the Trustee Chairman was deliberately violating the Constitution and refusing to comply with 11:2(f), invoked his executive right under section 15, to convene a Special General Meeting so that membership can exercise their Constitutional rights.
I view this action as further denial of members' constitutional rights to have a say in their Association's direction.
.
Membership has that same executive right under section 15 also - 25 financial members can write the Hon. Secretary requisitioning a Special General meeting. The Secretary is still in her substantive post till 31jan13 also.
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It is clear...the Board of Trustees has subverted the TTASA Constitution (ref Section 11:2(f) ) & is now acting illegally by assuming the duties of the Management of the Association.
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Membership....defend your Constitutional rights

[sMASH]

my, oh my, oh my.


out of the ashes, the phoenix will rise.

[sMASH]

new administration- trinidad and tobago auto sport council (TTASC)

managing level - board of disciplines.
board members - two lead authoritative representatives from each major discipline.
- board lead by chairman. nominated every year from amongst the board
members
- board has additional officers in the fields of Safety, legal/communication,
Infrastructure/logistics/environmental.

discipline representatives - elected from the current financial members of all the groups/clubs with
at board level in that discipline division. nominees are from the presidents/lead person
of all the groups/clubs within that discipline division.

officers at board level - each department lead officer would be elected from that department,
from that department. each officer/worker in that department would be
suitably qualified and has appropriate experience in past or present
capacities, and continues to demonstrate capability.

discipline/division - each discipline will consist of all clubs practising that genera of motor
sport.
a club may practise one or more genera of racing, but may belong to one
discipline.
if wanting to be recognized in more than discipline, they must separate
each faction officially, so that each faction becomes an entity, with
respect to the motor sport council.
each faction would be recognized and treated as an individual entity,
and would conform to the standard rules regarding any normal club.

membership to each club - any person may belong to one or more clubs or factions, as they desire,
but that person would incur separate duties/fees for each membership
desired.



managemet of club/ - clubs may choose to manage the clubs as they see fit. be it election,
factions nomination, succession. but must have at least two persons in position
of authority to be able to communicate with the discipline division
management, issue directives to the club/faction, and provide
accounting records to the discipline/division upon request.



numbers of divisions - there may be between 5 and 12 discipline divisions recognized at the
board level.
the recognition of a discipline would be based on the number of
financial members of all the clubs seeking recognition as a discipline.

-where a discipline does not meet the minimum criteria for number of
financial club members, but the genera of sport is still determined to
significantly different to not be classed as another recognized genera,
it would be assigned as a sub discipline to one that is most closely
similar to.

decision at board - all matters would be discussed at a division meeting, where all
members can voice concerns, vote on matters, and the general
consensus be used by the board reps to decide a matter at the next
board meeting.

decisions at divison - all meeting will be held with members for all clubs/factions/sub genera.






tired, goin an sleep now. just a part of an idea...

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

discipline representatives - elected from the current financial members of all the groups/clubs with
at board level in that discipline division. nominees are from the presidents/lead person
of all the groups/clubs within that discipline division.

the bigger clubs will always have their president elected since they have the greater share of the votes - how would you solve that?

[wagonrunner]

discipline representatives - elected from the current financial members of all the groups/clubs with
at board level in that discipline division. nominees are from the presidents/lead person
of all the groups/clubs within that discipline division.

the bigger clubs will always have their president elected since they have the greater share of the votes - how would you solve that?

president / chairperson and vice of the board nominated & elected by the board. those folks who were voted in by their clubs no elect the persons charged with directing them.

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

discipline representatives - elected from the current financial members of all the groups/clubs with
at board level in that discipline division. nominees are from the presidents/lead person
of all the groups/clubs within that discipline division.

the bigger clubs will always have their president elected since they have the greater share of the votes - how would you solve that?

president / chairperson and vice of the board nominated & elected by the board. those folks who were voted in by their clubs no elect the persons charged with directing them.

I don't understand what you are saying

[wagonrunner]

nominees for chair and vice-chair of the board, are elected by the board. which is comprised of two representatives of the various disciplines. those two representatives are elected there by their own disciplines.

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

nominees for chair and vice-chair of the board, are elected by the board. which is comprised of two representatives of the various disciplines. those two representatives are elected there by their own disciplines.

yes I understand that, which is why I asked

discipline representatives - elected from the current financial members of all the groups/clubs with
at board level in that discipline division. nominees are from the presidents/lead person
of all the groups/clubs within that discipline division.

the bigger clubs will always have their president elected since they have the greater share of the votes - how would you solve that?

[wagonrunner]

think i'm now seeing it as multiple clubs per discipline, and attempting to get get one pair representatives on the board in that scenario. is that it?

if so, what disciplines have that happening?

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

^ yes that's it

currently Rally with TTRC, TTRA and TTNSA
unless they make Stages one discipline and make navigation another but both TTRA and TTNSA are navigational clubs - infact CARS also has Navigational rally too, not so?

and with Drag Racing: ARA, TTUNDRA, Horizon, NRA
NRA was formed months ago as a breakaway from Horizon and TTUNDRA it seems. They claim to have 90-100 members already

So that's why I asked "the bigger clubs will always have their president elected since they have the greater share of the votes - how would you solve that?"

Even if you change it where one club = one vote, what is stopping me from forming 10 clubs with 10 members each to ensure my boy gets in on the council?

ANYWAY - there are many existing models we can follow from: Barbados, Central America etc that work perfectly.

Also there was an agreement signed by TTASA and MATT in 2010 that was eventually thrown out by TTASA, I'll see if I can get my hands on that since it clearly outlined how to treat with a situation where numerous clubs made up a single discipline.

[link]

Even if you change it where one club = one vote, what is stopping me from forming 10 clubs with 10 members each to ensure my boy gets in on the council?

TTASA Constitution section 23
.

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

^ Section 23 states that in order for an affiliate club to have voting rights, the club must have at least 25 members in a voting year (1 club = 1 vote) - no problem

but is there a rule against a person being a member of more than one affiliate club?

all 25 could be members of 3 clubs - but with differnt people being on management in each: 3 clubs = 3 votes

[wagonrunner]

here's where it would have gotten funny.

What is the criteria to be considered a discipline? (hustling this as i have to run out).

one one hand, i see it as competition. multiple events per year with overall winner(s).
Is there a year end "champ" in navigational rally? (I honestly don't know).

next thing is membership. That would be the right way to go. It's one thing to cater to patrons, another to members.

then comes record, one thing to have members. how many events been held? are reports of these events available (persons competed, results, etc), including financial?

Those just a few from my experience with CARS. when i come back maybe more. but just a chook.
else I mean link could come with a donkey pulling against a 120y. say he doing it so long now, with 300 members, and therefor should be on the board. just an example. but something can always develop down the road, so what's going to be the accepted legitimate determination of who should be there? I gone on that one

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

a discipline or an event is not hard to identify. A championship or series shouldn't be hard to find the category it belongs to. A more difficult proposition is "what is considered a motor sport" since dexterity, autocross (solodex) and time attack are considered motoring and not motorsport by the FIA and therefore falls under Mobility which is not sport at all!

voting rights based on past performance (recently active and number of events a club has had) is an option but it leaves out the newly formed clubs until they can get enough events/champinship going. That does not seem like a harsh proposition but early on it could cause friction. That would give TTRC, TTKA, CARS and ARA an immediate advantage over TTUNDRA, TTNSA, NRA and Horizon. TTRA for navigation would be also at an immediate advantage for navigation, however that is if FIA even views fun rallies as motoring or motorsport.

[link]

^ Section 23 states that in order for an affiliate club to have voting rights, the club must have at least 25 members in a voting year (1 club = 1 vote) - no problem

but is there a rule against a person being a member of more than one affiliate club?

all 25 could be members of 3 clubs - but with different people being on management in each: 3 clubs = 3 votes

not yet...but, it was prudent to leave that consideration/discussion to the MSGC, since the practicality of stating an immediate rule for/against concurrent membership needed to be a first-hand experience of the members of the MSGC in order to foster true understanding of the need for respectful cooperation.
.
For the record, I am of the opinion, then & now, that the 25 members of an affiliated club should be bona fide members...NOT BEING MEMBERS OF ANY OTHER MOTOR SPORT ORGANISATION...& that it should also be a criteria for full MSGC membership with voting rights.
.
rgds

[FugiTECH]

Gosh link , why all that beating up ? Things are going as planned , you should be happy that we hopefully moving away from a Dictatorship type TTASA. Short memory on how you were Expelled?

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

^ Section 23 states that in order for an affiliate club to have voting rights, the club must have at least 25 members in a voting year (1 club = 1 vote) - no problem

but is there a rule against a person being a member of more than one affiliate club?

all 25 could be members of 3 clubs - but with different people being on management in each: 3 clubs = 3 votes

not yet...but, it was prudent to leave that consideration/discussion to the MSGC, since the practicality of stating an immediate rule for/against concurrent membership needed to be a first-hand experience of the members of the MSGC in order to foster true understanding of the need for respectful cooperation.
.
For the record, I am of the opinion, then & now, that the 25 members of an affiliated club should be bona fide members...NOT BEING MEMBERS OF ANY OTHER MOTOR SPORT ORGANISATION...& that it should also be a criteria for full MSGC membership with voting rights.
.
rgds

but what about serious competitors who compete in karting but also rally and circuit? They would be members of all 3 clubs

now I can perhaps understand if a rule was made that you cannot be a member of more than one club in a particular discipline, but it would be against basic civic rights to prevent someone from joining any association or club they wish or preventing them from voting in a club they have membership in based on their membership elsewhere.
Take into consideration if each club offers cheaper entry fees to members for their drag racing events. As a drag racer it would make good financial sense to pay the small annual membership fee for all the clubs whose events you would want to take part in for the year and instead of paying full price each event.
What do you tell that competitor? I am sure he would not be in the minority when there are many active clubs having events.

[sMASH]

tobago.... majority rules.


it does not make sense for the minority to dictate the practices of the majority.


also, what ever money that is to be distributed to the clubs, can be divided up into a per financial member scenario. after the budget is has taken out the money for the projects and running costs and what not.

so, even if group a wants a drag track but b wants a circuit track, and because group a has significantly more members than group b, their command would be greater. this way, the individual clubs can use their budget to promote their interests as much as they require. until such time as they garner enough support to rival that of the other clubs.

also, each discipline division could have a minority group consideration system. just like some of the minor genera being grouped with a bigger genera, the minor club can affiliate with other smaller clubs.


but really and truly, when yuh big, yuh large...

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

it does not make sense for the minority to dictate the practices of the majority.

that would be good in one club.

but this is voting between various clubs!

take the UN for example, each country has a vote. They don't say well China has more people so they get majority vote or that their vote is worth more than the vote for the Germany.

[link]

tobago.... majority rules.


it does not make sense for the minority to dictate the practices of the majority.


also, what ever money that is to be distributed to the clubs, can be divided up into a per financial member scenario. after the budget is has taken out the money for the projects and running costs and what not.

so, even if group a wants a drag track but b wants a circuit track, and because group a has significantly more members than group b, their command would be greater. this way, the individual clubs can use their budget to promote their interests as much as they require. until such time as they garner enough support to rival that of the other clubs.

also, each discipline division could have a minority group consideration system. just like some of the minor genera being grouped with a bigger genera, the minor club can affiliate with other smaller clubs.


but really and truly, when yuh big, yuh large...

so what about equality ?

[link]

but what about serious competitors who compete in karting but also rally and circuit? They would be members of all 3 clubs

but they wouldn't need to be....at MSGC level, the affiliates would have ratified agreements for affiliate members to compete on common ground in all disciplines, provided they are qualified to do so. This preserves the ability to compete 'anywhere' & yet be a full member of only one organisation.
.
The constitution is a document that generates development....very few see this down line progress...& fewer still grasp the fact that all organisations must work for their reward, individually & together as equals in the MSGC.

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

but what about serious competitors who compete in karting but also rally and circuit? They would be members of all 3 clubs

but they wouldn't need to be....at MSGC level, the affiliates would have ratified agreements for affiliate members to compete on common ground in all disciplines, provided they are qualified to do so. This preserves the ability to compete 'anywhere' & yet be a full member of only one organisation.

I didn't mean they were members by requirement, i mean that they would be members by personal choice

which is why I posted this scenario:

^ Section 23 states that in order for an affiliate club to have voting rights, the club must have at least 25 members in a voting year (1 club = 1 vote) - no problem

but is there a rule against a person being a member of more than one affiliate club?

all 25 could be members of 3 clubs - but with different people being on management in each: 3 clubs = 3 votes

not yet...but, it was prudent to leave that consideration/discussion to the MSGC, since the practicality of stating an immediate rule for/against concurrent membership needed to be a first-hand experience of the members of the MSGC in order to foster true understanding of the need for respectful cooperation.
.
For the record, I am of the opinion, then & now, that the 25 members of an affiliated club should be bona fide members...NOT BEING MEMBERS OF ANY OTHER MOTOR SPORT ORGANISATION...& that it should also be a criteria for full MSGC membership with voting rights.
.
rgds

it would be against basic civic rights to prevent someone from joining any association or club they wish or preventing them from voting in a club they have membership in based on their membership elsewhere.
Take into consideration if each club offers cheaper entry fees to members for their drag racing events. As a drag racer it would make good financial sense to pay the small annual membership fee for all the clubs whose events you would want to take part in for the year and instead of paying full price each event. So you'd sign up for membership for 3 clubs.
What do you tell that competitor? I am sure he would not be in the minority when there are many active clubs having events.

[link]

being FULL members of any organisation is their choice & right....however, for MSGC purposes, the 25-member rqmnt (ie full members belonging to only that org) for qualification as a voting member should ensure that vibrant, self-sustaining, forward-thinking organisations which are capable of driving motor sport development forward, form this important front line council.
TTASA Constitution , section 23 (b)
.
rgds

[link]

Take into consideration if each club offers cheaper entry fees to members for their drag racing events. As a drag racer it would make good financial sense to pay the small annual membership fee for all the clubs whose events you would want to take part in for the year and instead of paying full price each event. So you'd sign up for membership for 3 clubs.

the simple benefits that accrue because of MSGC membership (above highlight) is just one of many which HAVE TO BE WORKED OUT & AGREED TO by MSGC affiliates.
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It's NOT POSSIBLE TO LEGISLATE EVERYTHING....but people have to come forward, commit to the common good & work towards it.
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not stage a coup