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eliteauto wrote:Aaron 2NR wrote:eliteauto I want you answer this question, since you seem to be the big forum lawyer and defending this down to the bone....
The 22-Clause Bill, which has been obtained by Sunday Newsday, for the first time proposes to regulate the practice of wiretapping by introducing key safeguards which will see wire-tapping authorised by the warrant of a High Court judge, upon application by an authorised official of the Ministry of National Security.Clause 21 of the Bill proposes to make it clear that the disclosure communications obtained by wiretapping without a warrant is an offence, punishable by law with a penalty of five years imprisonment and a fine of $300,000. The interception of communication is made an offence liable on summary conviction to a fine of three years’ prison and a fine of $50,000, according to Clause 6.
Apparently my differing view warrants a title? If I'm not an undercover PNMite, Manning spy and the new one big forum lawyer...grow up you are a neophyte in politics and apparently your eyes are still closed, all the sections you chose to highlight are proposed clauses, you do understand that means it's not in effect right? As has been said before by others, if this is an offence let those guilty go before the court, since you in politics tell me when is the first court case? How many issues have there been since elections where charges should have been laid, instead the Gov't goes to the court of public opinion and has blind sheep braying loudly about infringements, ent allyuh know where Manning is? ent he is the Devil incarnate? So why he eating Sunday lunch with Hazel today? This equipment was brought in during the UNC's last tenure and was used since then, the PM has chosen to inform all those being survailed without any concern for the consequence of same, how do you know this is not to the advantage of the high-level cocaine importers and financiers of crime?
If the former PM and his cronies used this equipment to his political advantage at the cost of impaired law enforcement then IIRC he paid the ultimate price with his removal, so why does the current Gov't not use same for good? You're asking me about your cousin's abduction, go ask your PM because she's in charge of the NSC now, I never defended the abuse of same I merely indicated the obfuscation of the law concerning it's legality and the potential value of same as it pertains to law enforcement
Read and understand dispassionately and you'll see what I spoke about, I'm not your enemy politically I just not clouded by sycophancy like many of you here
SUPAstarr wrote:^^ people tend to only believe what they can see in front of them....and then go to church and talk about faith
Kamla knew what spy agency doing—Rowley
Richard Lord
Published: 15 Nov 2010
Richard Lord
Leader of the Opposition Dr Keith Rowley is describing as “absolute nonsense” claims by Prime Minister Kamla Persad-Bissessar that she was unaware of the existence of Strategic Intelligence Agency (SIA) until recently. Rowley said Persad-Bissessar, as attorney general and acting prime minister in the 1995 to 2001 governments of Basdeo Panday, would have served on the National Security Council and, as a consequence, would have known about the work of the SIA.
Rowley was addressing about 500 people at the 42nd Annual Conference of the People’s National Movement’s Women’s League at the Seamen and Waterfront Workers’ Trade Union hall, Wrightson Road, Port-of-Spain, yesterday. “There is no way that Kamla Persad-Bissessar could not have known of the existence of the SIA and what they were up too,” he aid.
Rowley noted that the SIA was formed after the 1990 attempted coup, which was staged by the Jamaat al Muslimeen. He said it was based on a recommendation from Scotland Yard officials, which led to the establishment of the Strategic Services Agency (SSA), which was governed by legislation and the SIA which had no legislative status. Rowley said while there remained an urgent need to legalise the operations of the agency, Persad-Bissessar revealed the names of people being spied on by the SIA to deflect attention from the controversial dismissal of Fazeer Mohammed for a current affairs programme on state-owned Caribbean New Media Group (CNMG).
Rowley said every single arm of the state’s security, including the army, coast guard and special branch police, were engaged on spying on the population. He said army, coast guard, police, SSA and SIA intelligence “were all engaged in obtaining information in a clandestine manner.” Rowley said former attorney general Ramesh Lawrence Maharaj “had a great interest in using the SIA.”
Rowley added: “If the truth be told, it was not the first time that UNC ministers and Opposition members came to the attention of the secret services and they had files on them,” Rowley said. “The files would have their date of origin under the very UNC cabinet under the stewardship of Ramesh Lawrence Maharaj.”
Rowley said he wanted Persad-Bissessar to answer a few questions which were:
• “Tell me that it is not correct to say that a lot of the information that came to us about the famous flat in London and the (then) prime minister’s children and their private affairs in London came to them by the said SIA and similar spy agencies. Tell me that is not so.”
• “Tell me that the last prime minister, Basdeo Panday, was not in control of the SSA and somebody else was in control of the SIA and part of the collapse of the UNC government had to be with the countering of these two agencies in different hands. Tell us so.” Rowley added: “So when you (Persad-Bissessar) come to buss the mark on Friday and want to make it look like it’s something the PNM created in this country and want to blame the PNM, we will not accept that.”
Rowley said the issue now in the public domain over the illegal spying on private citizens was a “scandal, a mess and a national security concern.” He insisted the disclosure demanded the immediate attention of citizens. He said, however, it cannot be “that the Government must be allowed to cherry-pick what they want to tell us and what they don’t tell us.” Rowley declared: “I will not be comfortable with the Government being the sole arbiter and rectifier in this matter because what they will do is selectively remove from the body of information collected anything detrimental to them.”
Rowley said the People’s Partnership Government would “promote and use anything detrimental to anybody else...That is not how a country treats with a crisis like this.”
He wanted to know how the Government would deal with the issue of guarding the guards in this country. Rowley said there remained the need for security agencies to continue to find out what people were doing, especially the criminal element. He said, however, there must also be legislation to abuse their power against law- abiding citizens of this country. The Opposition Leader said what was causing the public outrage against the disclosure was the identity of the names on the so-called spy list, people who do not appear to be linked to criminal activity.
Joseph: It wasn’t me
Richard Lord
Published: 15 Nov 2010
Richard Lord
Former national security minister Martin Joseph says he “never authorised the wire- tapping of (the phones) of any citizen of T&T.” In an e-mailed statement yesterday, Joseph said as minister, his responsibilities included the policy formulation, implementation and co-ordination of the various divisions in the ministry. “The same way I could not direct the Commissioner of Police to arrest, I could not direct the director of the SIA (Strategic Intelligence Agency) on who to focus his intelligence-gathering operations,” he added.
Prime Minister Kamla Persad-Bissessar announced in Parliament on Friday, the list of public officials whose phones were tapped by the SIA. Joseph said like most citizens of T&T, “I, too, was shocked” by Persad-Bissessar’s revelations in Parliament three days ago.
“I look forward to clarification,” he added. He said while he was in office, he “was aware that various operations of the ministry needed to be more effectively monitored and co-ordinated.
“It was for that reason that Cabinet approval was obtained for the team led by retired Major General Ross to review and recommend the improvements to the security apparatus of the State,” he added. He said those recommendations were being implemented when there was a change in Government after the May 24 general election
Joseph said the SIA, over its 16-year existence, “has made valuable contributions, not only to the security of the State, but to the (Caribbean) region.” He said the SIA “has partnered with similar international organisations and agencies in the fight against drugs and transnational crime.” He said that objective was met because of the dedication, commitment and hard work of the SIA over the past years.
evo-STI-k wrote:leader of the opposition shoud hush................
once again ah setta rubbish piling out of his mouth!
5onDfloor wrote:This PP government has just compromise our national security for political mileage.
5onDfloor wrote: The fact still remains it has been establish since 1995 under the UNC and its an agency that we need in Trinidad.
5onDfloor wrote: This PP government has just compromise our national security for political mileage.
I mean, afterall, she is the one who is in power and control now, or at least supposed to. I personally think she should step down if she really, REALLY never knew about their existence, her continuous play of "ignorance" is annoying to me. Fact is, she's on the freaking list and it does say they can investigate you just for being _associated_ with people who _do_ belong on the list, that's called security;) and it's the law too, you can be found guilty by association. I'm sure there are probably a handful of you who actually know Mrs Kamla Persad-Bissessar or Mr. Patrick Manning or Dr. Keith Rowley and with the exception of Rene (Who actually does know some of them), I'm pretty sure the rest of them aren't in here spewing trash for the sake of spewing trash or to chain the rest of you sheep up, seriously, get over it, you are all being screwed one way or the other.
Kamla try again, no one is fooled by your cries of ignorance!RASC wrote:Kamla really is milking this "ohhhh gawd I didn't know nah"
Yeah the only one you're gonna fool is those sheep idiot supporters who take your word for gold. You were part of the UNC during the growing and developmental years of the SIA. You were pal and buddy of Basdeo Panday...you mean to tell me since 1995 you didn't know?
Kamla takin' Trinis for Mickey Mouse and Donald Duck....aka cartoon characters. She really feel allyuh "fool fool" as Jamaicans would say.
Snags wrote:RASC wrote:Kamla really is milking this "ohhhh gawd I didn't know nah"
Yeah the only one you're gonna fool is those sheep idiot supporters who take your word for gold. You were part of the UNC during the growing and developmental years of the SIA. You were pal and buddy of Basdeo Panday...you mean to tell me since 1995 you didn't know?
Kamla takin' Trinis for Mickey Mouse and Donald Duck....aka cartoon characters. She really feel allyuh "fool fool" as Jamaicans would say.
Alot of people are , actually and it's sad.
RASC wrote:
Kamla takin' Trinis for Mickey Mouse and Donald Duck....aka cartoon characters.
UML wrote:i think the issue here....from wat i get, could be wrong though....is that if it was indeed created by the UNC...it was the creation of a agency called SSA.....and Manning went and created a private spy agency in addition to the SSA called the SIA.
then again even if it was created by the UNC.....the face remains that they were NOT using it without the courts approval (i eh hear the PNM say dat yet) whilst the PNM WAS in addition to using it ILLEGALLY was using it for POLITICAL reasons.
5onDfloor wrote:UML wrote:i think the issue here....from wat i get, could be wrong though....is that if it was indeed created by the UNC...it was the creation of a agency called SSA.....and Manning went and created a private spy agency in addition to the SSA called the SIA.
then again even if it was created by the UNC.....the face remains that they were NOT using it without the courts approval (i eh hear the PNM say dat yet) whilst the PNM WAS in addition to using it ILLEGALLY was using it for POLITICAL reasons.
Lets be factual and practical......what Political reasons the PNM use it for?
The PNM created it, lost the elections before the equipment arrived here.
The UNC established and overseed its implementation. so how cud they of NOT used it without courts approval
Kamla was Ag Attorney General and part of the security council that the SSA\SIA was reportin too.
I honestly think KAMLA has stuck her feet up her Butt on this issue......
it looks as if it has backfired.
As the PM she is lieing and misleading the Populace..i will stop short of her resigning but she must not be allowed to play us for fools and be unscathed.
I remembered when Manning insulted us with his "PM means Project Manager" statement it was one of the final nails in his political coffin and he paid the price at the Polls. I wonder what will be Kamla's redress?
BANzai Rastafarai wrote:^^^ agreed. But the question arises is this. How can someone sue the state for misuse/privacy without eveidence? where is the evidence coming from? The Police service? The same service that is controlled by PP? We need to be careful with our outbursts...Kamla is under Parliamentary Privilege so she can say those things in Parliament...but to take it to the DPP for what?...
and if she was on ANY form of committee set up for security oversight (be it SSA or SIA) then what is good for the Lappe good for the Rabbit
RASC wrote:All I know is....DIMACHE GRAS 2011...gonna be besssssssssss
AllTrac wrote:basically a WTN DIMACHE GRAS 2011
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