The Religion Discussion

[16 cycles]

^ Duane, you read through all the posts in this thread? all the quotes and copy & paste????

if so....you deserve a medal...

[Sacchetto Boutique]

Moses seems pretty harsh here

Numbers 31:13-18
King James Version (KJV)
13 And Moses, and Eleazar the priest, and all the princes of the congregation, went forth to meet them without the camp.

14 And Moses was wroth with the officers of the host, with the captains over thousands, and captains over hundreds, which came from the battle.

15 And Moses said unto them, Have ye saved all the women alive?

16 Behold, these caused the children of Israel, through the counsel of Balaam, to commit trespass against the Lord in the matter of Peor, and there was a plague among the congregation of the Lord.

17 Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him.

18 But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves.

Megadoc,
AdamB has a life...one that includes the worship of the ONE TRUE GOD, ALLAH, and as SB said it's there in the Arabic Bible. So, is your GOD the father, alsdo the Moon God? Ignorance, I tell you...

Duane,
You forgot to quote from the Bible of Djaggs and Megadoc and Habit7, instructions on how to ABUSE AND RAPE ONE'S SISTER!!
Is this attributable to the "god of the Bible" Habit7?

Awaiting replies to these interesting posts

[MG Man]

for someone who has admitted to not being an expert in her own religion, yo sure do love to latch onto anything that you can use to find fault with another
Typical of fanatics, follow blindly what you think is right, even though you fail to properly comprehend it, while seeking to find fault with what you do not agree with...

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

The Qur'an has some violent surahs as well. Remember this link that was posted much earlier in this thread http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/quran ... olence.htm

^ Duane, you read through all the posts in this thread? all the quotes and copy & paste????

if so....you deserve a medal...

I've been following it all along so it's not that much of a task

from the beginning the main arguments have come from Islam and Christianity with a few from Hinduism, Buddhism and Seventh Day Adventists much earlier on. But I think it all boils down to faith. Unfortunately no amount of belief in something can make it true.

[rocknrolla]

if u believe in a black abyss of non existence after death then u just might have created ur own self fulfilling prophecy. that is if belief systems have anything to do with how the universe works.

what does that even mean?

you are being incoherent with almost every post.

that is quite sad. <-- u understand that right?

[rocknrolla]

The Qur'an has some violent surahs as well. Remember this link that was posted much earlier in this thread http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/quran ... olence.htm

^ Duane, you read through all the posts in this thread? all the quotes and copy & paste????

if so....you deserve a medal...

I've been following it all along so it's not that much of a task

from the beginning the main arguments have come from Islam and Christianity with a few from Hinduism, Buddhism and Seventh Day Adventists much earlier on. But I think it all boils down to faith. Unfortunately no amount of belief in something can make it true.

unless it was true from before u started believing.

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

The Qur'an has some violent surahs as well. Remember this link that was posted much earlier in this thread http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/quran ... olence.htm

^ Duane, you read through all the posts in this thread? all the quotes and copy & paste????

if so....you deserve a medal...

I've been following it all along so it's not that much of a task

from the beginning the main arguments have come from Islam and Christianity with a few from Hinduism, Buddhism and Seventh Day Adventists much earlier on. But I think it all boils down to faith. Unfortunately no amount of belief in something can make it true.

unless it was true from before u started believing.

but belief or faith still has no bearing there.

can you prove what you believe about God to be true? Or do you just faith that what you believe is true?

[Sacchetto Boutique]

for someone who has admitted to not being an expert in her own religion, yo sure do love to latch onto anything that you can use to find fault with another
Typical of fanatics, follow blindly what you think is right, even though you fail to properly comprehend it, while seeking to find fault with what you do not agree with...

FUNNY HOW U NOTICE WHEN I DO THAT N NOT FROM OTHERS.....
IM NOT LATCHING ON TO ANYTHING...I SAW THE POST, IT WAS INTERESTING, WOULD LIKE TO KNOW THE TRUTH SO JUDGE NOT MGMAN...

sorry abt the caps..was using it at work anyway...i don't see myself 'following blindly' just because i dont know absolutely everything about islam. I have an inclination toward it and the more I learn, the more I want to follow it. I love islam and for the record..i am not a terrorist and islam does not preach terrorism.

[DFC]

Sacchetto Boutique, i'm sorry , i meant no offence.

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

^ Ease up on the jokes and lets keep to discussion please

if u believe in a black abyss of non existence after death then u just might have created ur own self fulfilling prophecy. that is if belief systems have anything to do with how the universe works.

what does that even mean?

you are being incoherent with almost every post.

that is quite sad. <-- u understand that right?

yes it is quite sad that you are being incoherent

[Sacchetto Boutique]

The Qur'an has some violent surahs as well. Remember this link that was posted much earlier in this thread http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/quran ... olence.htm

^ Duane, you read through all the posts in this thread? all the quotes and copy & paste????

if so....you deserve a medal...

I've been following it all along so it's not that much of a task

from the beginning the main arguments have come from Islam and Christianity with a few from Hinduism, Buddhism and Seventh Day Adventists much earlier on. But I think it all boils down to faith. Unfortunately no amount of belief in something can make it true.

yea duane come on...i explained the verses already. Remember, the quran has 3 types of information,
1. historical - what happened while at the time the verses were revealed
2. what is to come
3. how to live the life of a muslim.

When things were happening at that time, verses were revealed...at that time, there was war etc.

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

^ if that was for that time alone, why have in a book that is to be used by billions of people for thousands of years after as a direct guide to life and how to live?

You were waiting on an answer on the Bible quote about Moses. Why can't that same "When things were happening at that time, verses were revealed...at that time, there was war" explanation be used for the violent parts of the Bible?

[Sacchetto Boutique]

i duno...is it the same? i dont know much about the bible and thats y im waiting on a reply. I am in no way trying to ridicule another religion..as a muslim, i am supposed to have respect for everyone's opinion and beliefs even though I disagree.

Im not sure you understand when I say the quran has 3 types of information. When certain issues arrised, verses were revealed which helps us understand what was happening at that time much like a historical account.

There are other verses within the quran that tell about what is to come like after death and a description of jannah or judgement day etc

There are yet other verses which tell muslims how they should behave/ live the life as commanded by Allah (God).

Because most of us are not scholars in islam, I look up to the scholars who have studied the Quran and the hadiths such as Mufti Ismael Musa Menk. They acquire their knowledge from the trail of scholars who came before them..where the trail goes right up to the prophet himself.

[Habit7]

The reason why this morally reprehensible to us is that God not longer has a people group to rightfully execute judgement on anyone.

A Christian morality makes genocide wrong, it can be explained as survival of the fittest in an atheistic worldview and there is certain nothing debarring an Islamist as exemplified in Muhammad. The Jewish conquest of Canaan was an act of judgement by God on the wicked Canaanites. When the Jews became wicked themselves God used pagan armies such as the Babylonians and the Persians to execute a likewise judgement on them.

But there no longer exists a theocratic Jewish nation, and God has given the power of judgement to governments as they are influenced by the Christians who live among them.

Romans 13:1-7 Every person is to be in subjection to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those which exist are established by God. Therefore whoever resists authority has opposed the ordinance of God; and they who have opposed will receive condemnation upon themselves. For rulers are not a cause of fear for good behavior, but for evil. Do you want to have no fear of authority? Do what is good and you will have praise from the same; for it is a minister of God to you for good. But if you do what is evil, be afraid; for it does not bear the sword for nothing; for it is a minister of God, an avenger who brings wrath on the one who practices evil. Therefore it is necessary to be in subjection, not only because of wrath, but also for conscience’ sake. For because of this you also pay taxes, for rulers are servants of God, devoting themselves to this very thing. Render to all what is due them: tax to whom tax is due; custom to whom custom; fear to whom fear; honor to whom honor.

This was written by the Apostle Paul, a Jewish man under the rule of the brutal Roman Empire who was persecuting Christians like himself.

As opposed to

Slay the idolaters wherever ye find them, arrest them, besiege them, and lie in ambush everywhere for them, Sura 9:5

[MG Man]

Because most of us are not scholars in islam, I look up to the scholars who have studied the Quran and the hadiths such as Mufti Ismael Musa Menk. They acquire their knowledge from the trail of scholars who came before them..where the trail goes right up to the prophet himself.

AdamB said not all islamic scholars are correct or speak the truth....how do you know the scholar you follow is making sense?

[Sacchetto Boutique]

Because most of us are not scholars in islam, I look up to the scholars who have studied the Quran and the hadiths such as Mufti Ismael Musa Menk. They acquire their knowledge from the trail of scholars who came before them..where the trail goes right up to the prophet himself.

AdamB said not all islamic scholars are correct or speak the truth....how do you know the scholar you follow is making sense?

oh so you duno how to read and understand now?

They acquire their knowledge from the trail of scholars who came before them..where the trail goes right up to the prophet himself.

Pick the trail of scholars who are educated from authentic sources such as Mufti Menk. There are many others but not every scholar as you rightly said, can be followed because of their trail of knowledge may not be from reliable source/s

[MG Man]

Because most of us are not scholars in islam, I look up to the scholars who have studied the Quran and the hadiths such as Mufti Ismael Musa Menk. They acquire their knowledge from the trail of scholars who came before them..where the trail goes right up to the prophet himself.

AdamB said not all islamic scholars are correct or speak the truth....how do you know the scholar you follow is making sense?

oh so you duno how to read and understand now? LMAO....coming from you..............who was happily misrepresenting your own religion until I quoted something you said, which AdamB had to school you on

They acquire their knowledge from the trail of scholars who came before them..where the trail goes right up to the prophet himself.

Pick the trail of scholars who are educated from authentic sources such as Mufti Menk. There are many others but not every scholar as you rightly said, can be followed because of their trail of knowledge may not be from reliable source/s

care to show the trail of scholars from him back to le Prophet? What happens if one of them was dyslexic?
And what does that prove, exactly? I can show you a line of Popes too
You spew so much tata you should be making Trucks

[Sacchetto Boutique]

wow...ur so sad yes as if ur patting urself on ur back bc u noticed something that i had to be educated about....ur like a child..

[Dizzy28]

The Qur'an has some violent surahs as well. Remember this link that was posted much earlier in this thread http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/quran ... olence.htm

^ Duane, you read through all the posts in this thread? all the quotes and copy & paste????

if so....you deserve a medal...

I've been following it all along so it's not that much of a task

from the beginning the main arguments have come from Islam and Christianity with a few from Hinduism, Buddhism and Seventh Day Adventists much earlier on. But I think it all boils down to faith. Unfortunately no amount of belief in something can make it true.

Spirituality to me in a nutshell.

[MG Man]

wow...ur so sad yes as if ur patting urself on ur back bc u noticed something that i had to be educated about....ur like a child..

no silly wabbit
I am saying before you seek to discredit someone else's belief, spend a little more time trying to understand your own. Even with your attempts to cite scholars that supposedly lead back to your prophet, you still clearly lack a fundamental understanding of some of the basic ideas of your own religion
you like a virgin trying to expound on the finer points of anal sex

[nareshseep]

wohgard,,,,,,,,,,
*grabs popcorn*

[Sacchetto Boutique]

again u judge me...i am not trying to discredit anyone's beliefs but when someone attacks islam and posts lies, isnt it natural that I will try to reply with truths? If by doing that, I discredit what they have said, then that isnt my fault. This entire thread is about discussing other people's views as to why they choose or not choose to follow a particular religion. Its silly that I have to explain that to you. I think ur bored and trolling honestly.

About the authentic trail of scholars...I duno how to explain this in the simplest way but....lets talk about Trinidad for instance. We have two major islamic bodies here, Darul-uloom and ASJA. Both islamic bodies educate muslims however, logically speaking, I would accept information obtained from Darul uloom over ASJA bc darul has proven to stick closely to actual hadith. They have produced countless Hafiz, Maulana, alims etc so isnt it obvious to trust knowledge from them? Isnt that how most human beings learn? You wouldnt go to a doctor to have ur car checked would you?

[nareshseep]

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

i duno...is it the same? i dont know much about the bible and thats y im waiting on a reply. I am in no way trying to ridicule another religion..as a muslim, i am supposed to have respect for everyone's opinion and beliefs even though I disagree.

if you don't know much about the Bible how then can you say it's not right?

when you say this

I have an inclination toward it and the more I learn, the more I want to follow it.

it may just be that you have pigeonholed yourself. If you read the Bible or the Gita you may be inclined to those too, unless of course your inclination is based on a preconception, which then would not lend any credibility to what you are basing your decisions on.

then do the research urself megadoc,

you didn't, but he should?

Im not sure you understand when I say the quran has 3 types of information. When certain issues arrised, verses were revealed which helps us understand what was happening at that time much like a historical account.

There are other verses within the quran that tell about what is to come like after death and a description of jannah or judgement day etc

There are yet other verses which tell muslims how they should behave/ live the life as commanded by Allah (God).

Because most of us are not scholars in islam, I look up to the scholars who have studied the Quran and the hadiths such as Mufti Ismael Musa Menk. They acquire their knowledge from the trail of scholars who came before them..where the trail goes right up to the prophet himself.

I understand what you are saying, but it seems quite a large number of Muslims are taking the historical account of "slay the infidels" and applying it to "how the should behave/live" and that's why there are suicide bombers in the name of Allah.

Also regarding the complexity of the Qur'an such that only scholars can decipher it, isn't that contradictory to Surah 54:17 "We made the Qur'an easy to learn". Or is it that it's easy to learn but hard to understand?

[nareshseep]

All of these argument on the past, about who is right and who is wrong, really does it matter? when we should be looking at the present and planning for the future, for the benefit of all of mankind. A hundred years from now, there will be some other folks in a similar thread arguing about the same thing ... about who is right... No one is correct. And we will not have moved on from here. As the wars go ... the skeptic leaders will perish and the blind followers will live on perpetuating what we have today.

[Habit7]

I've been following it all along so it's not that much of a task from the beginning the main arguments have come from Islam and Christianity with a few from Hinduism, Buddhism and Seventh Day Adventists much earlier on. But I think it all boils down to faith. Unfortunately no amount of belief in something can make it true.

You sadly continue to fail to disassociate "blind faith" from faith/trust based on evidence. This faith/trust is no different than the one Richard Dawkins possesses in the scientific method http://bigthink.com/videos/richard-dawkinss-faith . You seem not to acknowledge that while there are a broad variance of religious views, some have more evidences than others, and as such you think they all appeal to blind faith. In none of my discussions with you I encouraged you to have blind faith but I gave logical evidences no matter how controversial. However, as this is not the first time I have called you out on this, I guess it is inevitable because you approach the discussion with a bias as well. But not every convincing argument converts. Let's us continue to point a stare another's biases while we coddle ours as we hold it close to our chests.

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

I've been following it all along so it's not that much of a task from the beginning the main arguments have come from Islam and Christianity with a few from Hinduism, Buddhism and Seventh Day Adventists much earlier on. But I think it all boils down to faith. Unfortunately no amount of belief in something can make it true.

You sadly continue to fail to disassociate "blind faith" from faith/trust based on evidence. This faith/trust is no different than the one Richard Dawkins possesses in the scientific method http://bigthink.com/videos/richard-dawkinss-faith . You seem not to acknowledge that while there are a broad variance of religious views, some have more evidences than others, and as such you think they all appeal to blind faith. In none of my discussions with you I encouraged you to have blind faith but I gave logical evidences no matter how controversial. However, as this is not the first time I have called you out on this, I guess it is inevitable because you approach the discussion with a bias as well. But not every convincing argument converts. Let's us continue to point a stare another's biases while we coddle ours as we hold it close to our chests.

there is a reason they teach evolution and science in schools - because it is science based on actual evidence.

You claim if science finds something that contradicts the Bible then we should ignore it and go with what the Bible says. THAT is bias.

Which is why you think the earth is 6,000-12,000 years old.
There is also no evidence of a global flood as described in Genesis.
"Adherents believe the Christian Bible is inerrant and hold its passages to be historically accurate, including the story of Noah's Ark, and that the Bible's internal chronology, which places the Flood within the last five thousand years, is reliable. Flood geology contradicts the scientific consensus in geology and paleontology, chemistry, physics, astronomy, cosmology, biology, geophysics and stratigraphy and the scientific community considers it to be pseudoscience"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flood_geology

as I said before: Science does not require faith.
Whatever faith Dawkins possesses is irrelevant to whether it is true or not - he can believe whatever he likes. Unlike religion, science does not need a figurehead, so please stop thinking Dawkins is one.

There is nothing for scientists to coddle and hold to their chest. It wouldnt be science if they did. It would be called religion.

[Habit7]

So Dawkins is a figurehead and wikipedia is authoritative and faith is always blind.

non-bias looks so cool

[maj. tom]

back to explaining the Scientific Method and peer review then.

[megadoc1]

in the mean time, we observe adam b's absence, any time he is faced with some serious points to refute, knowing he cannot, he suddenly 'remembers' he have a life, but only until a few pages blow over, then he comes back in with his nonsense