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Even if there was only the option of the True Religion and atheism, there will still be strife because such is the heart of man. God is not responsible because men cannot get along, we are free moral agents and our actions are on our account. Christianity teaches not that we should get along, but that we are at enmity with God and through reconciliation to Him, Christians unite under one faith. There are non-essentials like infant baptist, liturgy, church government, etc. but Christians all hold to common faith essentials of the doctrine of the Trinity, the doctrine of the vicarious sacrifice of our Lord Jesus Christ and the doctrine of justification by faith.Dizzy28 wrote:^ clearly God also has a sick sense of humour as well.Give religion but allow there to be inumerable sects/beliefs.Then sit back and watch man degenerate into strife on a simple concept that is God.
you've changed your story a number of times in this and other threads. You also post alot of "maybe's" and speculate without substance to back it up.turbotusty wrote:^maybe this is hell.. and the devil ah run tings in this part of town. maybe that is why, we as humans cant resist the temptation to do wickedness to each other. cuz we're all demons pretending to be saints.
Duane 3NE 2NR wrote:you've changed your story a number of times in this and other threads. You also post alot of "maybe's" and speculate without substance to back it up.turbotusty wrote:^maybe this is hell.. and the devil ah run tings in this part of town. maybe that is why, we as humans cant resist the temptation to do wickedness to each other. cuz we're all demons pretending to be saints.
In one post you strongly promote the bible, in another you claim all texts are true, in a third you claim only God and texts are misguided, in a fourth you claim Aliens brought religion here.
Exactly what is your point?
turbotusty wrote:God is an invisible man in the sky ..i believe
Habit7 wrote:Unlike in Islam, Christians who worship idols are not "misguided", they are wrong. If a professed Christian consistently worships idols he are not a Christian.Sacchetto Boutique wrote:yea i understand but i dont think u guys do! worship ONE GOD and dont put an image to him yet that is not what christians do
turbotusty wrote:i think again that ... we are a part of God's essence
Kasey wrote:Duane 3NE 2NR wrote:the point they were making is that a Christian or person of any religion can be drunk and cursing loudly on the street. But they don't do it in the name of their religion as we've seen from these "islamic extremists" who carry out their terrible acts in the name of Islam.Sacchetto Boutique wrote:Islam doesnt teach hate. It is all about peace. If 10, 20, 100 or 1000 muslims kill, torture etc in the name of Allah, then they are mis-guided. Are we going to continue to be silly and say well hear what, I saw a drunk christian cursing loudly on the street yesterday, therefore, all chistians are drunks? no...but once it is a muslim, he will represent ALL muslims.
The world wouldnt have the term "islamic extremists" if they didnt exist in quantity.
These are not just a few people committing heinous acts who happen to be muslim. These are people committing heinous acts and claiming it in the name of Islam. They even seem to find support from other Muslims and support in the Qur'an and Hadith where they find the verses that appear to support their acts (just like the videos of Amjen Choudary that i posted). That is completely different from some wacko just killing people for fun who happens to be of whatever religion or even happens to like football. They don't profile footballers after that do they?
the wider Muslim community needs to actively do something about these terrorists instead of claiming "a few bad apples". There is obviously a problem there that needs immediate attention!
well said duane. This should be posted in NEWS on TV an ting. I goin an text it into TV6 an Express.
turbotusty wrote:^maybe this is hell.. and the devil ah run tings
we're all demons pretending to be saints.
untrueAdamB wrote:Kasey wrote:Duane 3NE 2NR wrote:the point they were making is that a Christian or person of any religion can be drunk and cursing loudly on the street. But they don't do it in the name of their religion as we've seen from these "islamic extremists" who carry out their terrible acts in the name of Islam.Sacchetto Boutique wrote:Islam doesnt teach hate. It is all about peace. If 10, 20, 100 or 1000 muslims kill, torture etc in the name of Allah, then they are mis-guided. Are we going to continue to be silly and say well hear what, I saw a drunk christian cursing loudly on the street yesterday, therefore, all chistians are drunks? no...but once it is a muslim, he will represent ALL muslims.
The world wouldnt have the term "islamic extremists" if they didnt exist in quantity.
These are not just a few people committing heinous acts who happen to be muslim. These are people committing heinous acts and claiming it in the name of Islam. They even seem to find support from other Muslims and support in the Qur'an and Hadith where they find the verses that appear to support their acts (just like the videos of Amjen Choudary that i posted). That is completely different from some wacko just killing people for fun who happens to be of whatever religion or even happens to like football. They don't profile footballers after that do they?
the wider Muslim community needs to actively do something about these terrorists instead of claiming "a few bad apples". There is obviously a problem there that needs immediate attention!
well said duane. This should be posted in NEWS on TV an ting. I goin an text it into TV6 an Express.
It possibly is the same as the good publicity / bad publicity issue that the PP gov't raised about the media. Bad news sells more than good news.
I've posted statements condemning terrorism from scholars of Islam a couple of pages ago. Does the media care to highlight these? It just doesn't sell papers...
Duane 3NE 2NR wrote:untrueAdamB wrote:Kasey wrote:Duane 3NE 2NR wrote:the point they were making is that a Christian or person of any religion can be drunk and cursing loudly on the street. But they don't do it in the name of their religion as we've seen from these "islamic extremists" who carry out their terrible acts in the name of Islam.Sacchetto Boutique wrote:Islam doesnt teach hate. It is all about peace. If 10, 20, 100 or 1000 muslims kill, torture etc in the name of Allah, then they are mis-guided. Are we going to continue to be silly and say well hear what, I saw a drunk christian cursing loudly on the street yesterday, therefore, all chistians are drunks? no...but once it is a muslim, he will represent ALL muslims.
The world wouldnt have the term "islamic extremists" if they didnt exist in quantity.
These are not just a few people committing heinous acts who happen to be muslim. These are people committing heinous acts and claiming it in the name of Islam. They even seem to find support from other Muslims and support in the Qur'an and Hadith where they find the verses that appear to support their acts (just like the videos of Amjen Choudary that i posted). That is completely different from some wacko just killing people for fun who happens to be of whatever religion or even happens to like football. They don't profile footballers after that do they?
the wider Muslim community needs to actively do something about these terrorists instead of claiming "a few bad apples". There is obviously a problem there that needs immediate attention!
well said duane. This should be posted in NEWS on TV an ting. I goin an text it into TV6 an Express.
It possibly is the same as the good publicity / bad publicity issue that the PP gov't raised about the media. Bad news sells more than good news.
I've posted statements condemning terrorism from scholars of Islam a couple of pages ago. Does the media care to highlight these? It just doesn't sell papers...
Change sells papers.
Look at how much news time the Arab Spring got. They genuinely didn't like their Govt and they collectively got together and changed it. It's not impossible.
Or was it that the Western countries would grasp at ANY opportunity to weaken "Islamic" governments so that there could be more "Western" influence to eventually get their hands on the wealth of the Arabs?
When people commit heinous acts in the name if Islam, if Muslims around the world react to them the same way they react when a cartoon of the Prophet is made then I'm sure all these "bad apples" will be eradicated.
Sacchetto Boutique wrote:oh geeze...again...let me type it bold so you can see, ISLAM DOEST NOT TEACH OR PROMOTE HATE. It is ridiculous that most of what is highlighted is the bad. Ofcourse they terrorists are mis-guided if they CLAIM it is islam bc that isnt true. Have any of you even bothered to read teh quran?? There are verses which were highlighted that refer to teh people of that era having to fight and there are verses which speak of kindness toward mankind which i have posted a page ago yet all you guys are focusing on are the verses of fighting. Those muslims who kill in the name of islam totally ignored the peaceful verses. I cannot speak for them, I can speak for me and if islam really teaches hatred, I think alot more non-muslims would have been dead by now. Look for some statistics, there are still billions of non-muslims living around the world today and I have no intention to cause harm to any of them nor do MOST muslims. The media is biased bc 9 out of 10 times, the neg. things will be printed.
Duane 3NE 2NR wrote:the wider Muslim community needs to actively do something about these terrorists instead of claiming "a few bad apples". There is obviously a problem there that needs immediate attention!
Duane 3NE 2NR wrote:.
When people commit heinous acts in the name if Islam, if Muslims around the world react to them the same way they react when a cartoon of the Prophet is made then I'm sure all these "bad apples" will be eradicated.
Habit7 wrote:AdamB I hope you don't misunderstand my analysis of Islam. I don't have "axe to grind with muslims" I am critiquing Islam as a whole and not individual muslims. Christianity teaches me to critique the truth claims of Christianity along with any other truth claims. If you believe Islam is above scrutiny then that might serve you but it does not serve others well. I have brought up inconsistencies of the justice of Allah and the lack of corroboration from “the Book” Mohammad appeals to and neither you nor your brethren have rebutted with a clarification of these inconsistencies. You might personally distance yourself from some of the violence and suppression taught in the Quran, but some might say you are influenced by your westernised environment. An honest, consistent follower of the Quran and the Hadiths, and a disciple of Muhammad would end up being considered radicalised, but that is not radical, that is run-of-the-mill Islam, and there are many of us that have a problem with that.
Are you to determine what "run-of-the-mill" Islam is?
So when Sacchetto calls terrorists, who happen to be Muslims, “misguided” I have a problem with that. That could be interpreted that their terrorism was directed wrongly but consistent with Islam.
Your interpretation is wrong. If they are acting outside of what Islam teaches or promotes, then how could it be "consistent with Islam"? Is poisoning yourself and your followers "consistent with Christianity" because of the Jim Jones Guyana incident? Is the actions of Jimmy Swaggart consistent with Christian evangelism?
Has anyone or any mediahouse examined or probed the operations of Christian churches like pastor Cuffie to see if he is doing just like JACK ie pocketing the proceeds from the church donations to benefit himself and his family PERSONALLY rather than operating non-profit organizations or profitable ones that benefit the people who make the contributions?
Unless acts like terrorism, spouse abuse, persecution of unbelievers, lying to forward Islam and Jihad are generally is condemned by the Muslims of the West and the East, Islam will be seen as a threat to Western Civilization.
Habit7 wrote:Can you befriend me, a Christian?
AdamB wrote:Habit7 wrote:AdamB I hope you don't misunderstand my analysis of Islam. I don't have "axe to grind with muslims" I am critiquing Islam as a whole and not individual muslims. Christianity teaches me to critique the truth claims of Christianity along with any other truth claims. If you believe Islam is above scrutiny then that might serve you but it does not serve others well. I have brought up inconsistencies of the justice of Allah and the lack of corroboration from “the Book” Mohammad appeals to and neither you nor your brethren have rebutted with a clarification of these inconsistencies. You might personally distance yourself from some of the violence and suppression taught in the Quran, but some might say you are influenced by your westernised environment. An honest, consistent follower of the Quran and the Hadiths, and a disciple of Muhammad would end up being considered radicalised, but that is not radical, that is run-of-the-mill Islam, and there are many of us that have a problem with that.
Are you to determine what "run-of-the-mill" Islam is?
So when Sacchetto calls terrorists, who happen to be Muslims, “misguided” I have a problem with that. That could be interpreted that their terrorism was directed wrongly but consistent with Islam.
Your interpretation is wrong. If they are acting outside of what Islam teaches or promotes, then how could it be "consistent with Islam"? Is poisoning yourself and your followers "consistent with Christianity" because of the Jim Jones Guyana incident? Is the actions of Jimmy Swaggart consistent with Christian evangelism?
Has anyone or any mediahouse examined or probed the operations of Christian churches like pastor Cuffie to see if he is doing just like JACK ie pocketing the proceeds from the church donations to benefit himself and his family PERSONALLY rather than operating non-profit organizations or profitable ones that benefit the people who make the contributions?
Unless acts like terrorism, spouse abuse, persecution of unbelievers, lying to forward Islam and Jihad are generally is condemned by the Muslims of the West and the East, Islam will be seen as a threat to Western Civilization.
Treatment of spouses and treatment of non-muslims can't be judged by the actions of ignorant, cultural practises, rather by the actions of our prophet and his commands and practises. Also those of his rightly guided caliphs and his companions. These are well documented.
I am not certain what you mean by "lying to forward Islam". Telling untruths are not permitted unless it be like a strategy in war or to save one's life.
Pertaining to Jihad, muslims are commanded to "fight against those who fight against you". Punishment for crimes are not permitted by vigilantes, I had pointed out before that there is a system for trying persons in court with a judge and witnesses. These are well documented and established, Shariah Law if you want to call it that (the body of laws prescribed in Islam).
Islam will always be a threat to "Western Civilization", it toppled the Roman Empire, among other great achievements. Hindus and Jews who are not growing as rapidly as muslims and who are being subdued will, of course, not be a major threat to the "West".
AdamB wrote:Habit7 wrote:Can you befriend me, a Christian?
Are you lonely? Don't you have a friend in Jesus?
Don't worry, his is historically incorrect about that too.Dizzy28 wrote:AdamB wrote:Islam will always be a threat to "Western Civilization", it toppled the Roman Empire, among other great achievements. Hindus and Jews who are not growing as rapidly as muslims and who are being subdued will, of course, not be a major threat to the "West".
And this is why quite a large portion of the world thinks this supposed Religion of Peace actually means to wage War. You seem quite pleased to indicate the toppling of an empire as a great achievement.
Dizzy28 wrote:AdamB wrote:Habit7 wrote:AdamB I hope you don't misunderstand my analysis of Islam. I don't have "axe to grind with muslims" I am critiquing Islam as a whole and not individual muslims. Christianity teaches me to critique the truth claims of Christianity along with any other truth claims. If you believe Islam is above scrutiny then that might serve you but it does not serve others well. I have brought up inconsistencies of the justice of Allah and the lack of corroboration from “the Book” Mohammad appeals to and neither you nor your brethren have rebutted with a clarification of these inconsistencies. You might personally distance yourself from some of the violence and suppression taught in the Quran, but some might say you are influenced by your westernised environment. An honest, consistent follower of the Quran and the Hadiths, and a disciple of Muhammad would end up being considered radicalised, but that is not radical, that is run-of-the-mill Islam, and there are many of us that have a problem with that.
Are you to determine what "run-of-the-mill" Islam is?
So when Sacchetto calls terrorists, who happen to be Muslims, “misguided” I have a problem with that. That could be interpreted that their terrorism was directed wrongly but consistent with Islam.
Your interpretation is wrong. If they are acting outside of what Islam teaches or promotes, then how could it be "consistent with Islam"? Is poisoning yourself and your followers "consistent with Christianity" because of the Jim Jones Guyana incident? Is the actions of Jimmy Swaggart consistent with Christian evangelism?
Has anyone or any mediahouse examined or probed the operations of Christian churches like pastor Cuffie to see if he is doing just like JACK ie pocketing the proceeds from the church donations to benefit himself and his family PERSONALLY rather than operating non-profit organizations or profitable ones that benefit the people who make the contributions?
Unless acts like terrorism, spouse abuse, persecution of unbelievers, lying to forward Islam and Jihad are generally is condemned by the Muslims of the West and the East, Islam will be seen as a threat to Western Civilization.
Treatment of spouses and treatment of non-muslims can't be judged by the actions of ignorant, cultural practises, rather by the actions of our prophet and his commands and practises. Also those of his rightly guided caliphs and his companions. These are well documented.
I am not certain what you mean by "lying to forward Islam". Telling untruths are not permitted unless it be like a strategy in war or to save one's life.
Pertaining to Jihad, muslims are commanded to "fight against those who fight against you". Punishment for crimes are not permitted by vigilantes, I had pointed out before that there is a system for trying persons in court with a judge and witnesses. These are well documented and established, Shariah Law if you want to call it that (the body of laws prescribed in Islam).
Islam will always be a threat to "Western Civilization", it toppled the Roman Empire, among other great achievements. Hindus and Jews who are not growing as rapidly as muslims and who are being subdued will, of course, not be a major threat to the "West".
And this is why quite a large portion of the world thinks this supposed Religion of Peace actually means to wage War. You seem quite pleased to indicate the toppling of an empire as a great achievement.
megadoc1 wrote:in the Qur'an we see men lives being destroyed because they reject or opposed the teaching of Muhammad and the quran,this is not done by the followers own doings but it was sanctioned or ordered by the very leader of that faith
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