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COVID-19 Vaccine Tracker (News and Updates) (Poll added)

this is how we do it.......

Moderator: 3ne2nr Mods

Are you taking the COVID-19 Vaccine?

Yes, I am already vaccinated.
81
67%
Yes, I am awaiting vaccination.
12
10%
No, I don't want it.
19
16%
I am not sure.
9
7%
 
Total votes: 121

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Re: COVID-19 Vaccine Tracker (News and Updates)

Postby BUG » June 11th, 2021, 11:43 am

paid_influencer wrote:yup, the mother of all Carnivals coming


:lol:

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Re: COVID-19 Vaccine Tracker (News and Updates)

Postby Duane 3NE 2NR » June 11th, 2021, 11:47 am

Drive thru vaccines in Chaguaramas


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Re: COVID-19 Vaccine Tracker (News and Updates)

Postby Dohplaydat » June 11th, 2021, 11:50 am

sMASH wrote:https://www.facebook.com/badboynick/videos/10167737437470354



140 vaccines at one site. 30+ sites

so 5 to 6k per day.
5 day work week. 30k per week
with 1m doses, u looking at 33 weeks


not bad, not bad. given that the jj would be single shot, there would not be many double shots to follow up.
heard im. will be jsut in time for carnival.


5 day work week? Steups get volunteers to work weekends, set up drive thrus and enlist the help of the private sector.

We should be doing 10k a day.

Allyuh want to have Carnival? Steups what about schools? What about all the people who's livelihoods have been destroyed?

I don't have any ulterior motives with this post.

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Re: COVID-19 Vaccine Tracker (News and Updates)

Postby paid_influencer » June 11th, 2021, 11:54 am

boss, it will come, give them a ease up nah. maybe spread out some chair while you waiting

https://www.facebook.com/CCNTV6/posts/5600765153298964

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Re: COVID-19 Vaccine Tracker (News and Updates)

Postby Duane 3NE 2NR » June 11th, 2021, 12:00 pm

paid_influencer wrote:boss, it will come, give them a ease up nah. maybe spread out some chair while you waiting

https://www.facebook.com/CCNTV6/posts/5600765153298964

Applause to them!

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Re: COVID-19 Vaccine Tracker (News and Updates)

Postby sMASH » June 11th, 2021, 12:01 pm

Dohplaydat wrote:
sMASH wrote:https://www.facebook.com/badboynick/videos/10167737437470354



140 vaccines at one site. 30+ sites

so 5 to 6k per day.
5 day work week. 30k per week
with 1m doses, u looking at 33 weeks


not bad, not bad. given that the jj would be single shot, there would not be many double shots to follow up.
heard im. will be jsut in time for carnival.


5 day work week? Steups get volunteers to work weekends, set up drive thrus and enlist the help of the private sector.

We should be doing 10k a day.

Allyuh want to have Carnival? Steups what about schools? What about all the people who's livelihoods have been destroyed?

I don't have any ulterior motives with this post.


with volunteers, i still say they need to be overseen by a competent nurse. and at least one doctor over looking the medical histories to verify they safe to take the jab.

put kfc managers to do the administration at the door, have a doctor screen the history, and nurses OVERSEE the jab jab team in the room.

open up the schools, community centers, stadiums.

invite vene nurses for a 6months contract.

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Re: COVID-19 Vaccine Tracker (News and Updates)

Postby sMASH » June 11th, 2021, 12:33 pm

now seeing the drive tru. hope no one has comorbidity,

by today's end u will see how much they gt with. so u can update ur vaccine uptake rate

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Re: COVID-19 Vaccine Tracker (News and Updates)

Postby BUG » June 11th, 2021, 1:08 pm

sMASH wrote:
Dohplaydat wrote:
sMASH wrote:https://www.facebook.com/badboynick/videos/10167737437470354



140 vaccines at one site. 30+ sites

so 5 to 6k per day.
5 day work week. 30k per week
with 1m doses, u looking at 33 weeks


not bad, not bad. given that the jj would be single shot, there would not be many double shots to follow up.
heard im. will be jsut in time for carnival.


5 day work week? Steups get volunteers to work weekends, set up drive thrus and enlist the help of the private sector.

We should be doing 10k a day.

Allyuh want to have Carnival? Steups what about schools? What about all the people who's livelihoods have been destroyed?

I don't have any ulterior motives with this post.


with volunteers, i still say they need to be overseen by a competent nurse. and at least one doctor over looking the medical histories to verify they safe to take the jab.

put kfc managers to do the administration at the door, have a doctor screen the history, and nurses OVERSEE the jab jab team in the room.

open up the schools, community centers, stadiums.

invite vene nurses for a 6months contract.


The same KFC managers who never manage to have half the items on the menu available for sale in their store? No thanks.

(KFC is my cheat day meal of choice :wink: )

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Re: COVID-19 Vaccine Tracker (News and Updates)

Postby elec2020 » June 11th, 2021, 1:48 pm

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/arti ... boola_feed

Officials say there is no cause for concern that Americans received ruined shots because all J&J doses administered in the U.S. so far were manufactured at the firm's Janssen plant in the Netherlands, not at the Baltimore plant.

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Re: COVID-19 Vaccine Tracker (News and Updates)

Postby MaxPower » June 11th, 2021, 2:33 pm

This nonsense with the multiple videos on social media with ppl taking the vaccine and mocking Chinese nationals is discriminatory.

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Re: COVID-19 Vaccine Tracker (News and Updates)

Postby SuperiorMan » June 11th, 2021, 2:35 pm

Link to these videos?

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Re: COVID-19 Vaccine Tracker (News and Updates)

Postby paid_influencer » June 11th, 2021, 2:46 pm

^
Federal regulators have decided to scrap about 60 million doses of J&J’s Covid vaccine produced at a troubled Emergent BioSolutions plant in Baltimore.

About 10 million doses of J&J’s vaccine manufactured at the plant will still be distributed in the U.S. and donated to other countries.

The FDA hasn’t cleared the plant to reopen after shuttering it over safety violations two months ago.


https://www.cnbc.com/2021/06/11/the-fda ... cine-.html

The AU order we have for J&J supposed to come from a new South African plant under Aspen Pharma, so let's all hope for the best with that plant over in Africa.

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Re: COVID-19 Vaccine Tracker (News and Updates)

Postby hover11 » June 11th, 2021, 4:28 pm

Yall realize the new variants are still out there right I wonder what happens with two days of debauchery and no social distancing hmm becareful after carnival we don't have another lockdown look at what is happening around the world and we here studying carnival lol
paid_influencer wrote:yup, the mother of all Carnivals coming

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Re: COVID-19 Vaccine Tracker (News and Updates)

Postby Redman » June 11th, 2021, 6:33 pm

Took 10 min
No side effects yet.

VexXx Dogg wrote:
Redman wrote:We have a 2pm appt for the Second Sinopharm shot....it's gonna be a mess.


I have my 2nd appt next week. Apparently everyone I spoke with so far has said that the 2nd shot appointments hold and you don't need to join the first shot queue. Go straight to the guard with your card.

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Re: COVID-19 Vaccine Tracker (News and Updates)

Postby Dohplaydat » June 11th, 2021, 6:58 pm

hover11 wrote:Yall realize the new variants are still out there right I wonder what happens with two days of debauchery and no social distancing hmm becareful after carnival we don't have another lockdown look at what is happening around the world and we here studying carnival lol
paid_influencer wrote:yup, the mother of all Carnivals coming


stop making me excited man.....take your vaccine all will be well.

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Re: COVID-19 Vaccine Tracker (News and Updates)

Postby paid_influencer » June 11th, 2021, 7:01 pm

BODOW

TWO HUNJED THOUSAND SINOPHARM LANDING DOWN NEXT WEEKl

"Two hundred thousand from Sinopharm are due very early next week."

A shipment was originally scheduled to arrive on June 10, according to a statement by the Prime minister at a media conference on June 5.


https://newsday.co.tt/2021/06/11/200000 ... ys-browne/

also,

"Eight hundred thousand one-dose Johnson & Johnson (doses) are scheduled and anticipated to arrive in August, but guess what? There is work going on right now led by the Prime Minister of TT to seek to advance the arrival of those doses."


BODOW

and we might get some more close-to-expiry vaccines from caricom (air guard standing by)

"There is an Air Guard aircraft in the air right now doing some collections from our generous neighbours. We are working with our neighbours and that's what diplomacy is about, to ensure that within the region, nothing is wasted and Caricom citizens can be made as safe as possible.


bodow, thing coming. just need to hold on a little more

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Re: COVID-19 Vaccine Tracker (News and Updates)

Postby Dohplaydat » June 11th, 2021, 8:14 pm

Is Sinopharm really working? Chile at 60% full vaccination and having to go back on a strict lockdown.....not good at all, China needs to explain because the US and UK have similar vaccination rates and cases there are at all-time lows.

It's certainly becoming a trend that countries using Sinopharm are having huge outbreaks, this would mean one of three things (or a combo of these):

1. The Sinopharm vaccine is bunk and efficacy reports were falsified
2. Sinopharm has quality control issues and we can be injecting blanks in some batches, while others might get a good quality source (could be likely as it's China and they're famous for this).
3. Could be fake news, but could also be true, that some of the 'inactivated' virus in the vaccine isn't so inactive and it's actually giving people covid.



Covid-19 pandemic: Chile capital locks down despite mass vaccination


About 58% of the country's 17.5 million people have been fully vaccinated, and as many as 75% have received at least one vaccine dose.


https://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-57436861
Last edited by Dohplaydat on June 11th, 2021, 8:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: COVID-19 Vaccine Tracker (News and Updates)

Postby paid_influencer » June 11th, 2021, 8:17 pm

CNC3 have a segment on now about a MFO survey on vaccine willingness in the population.

240,000 are 'vaccine advocates'
370,000 are unsure
400,000 are reluctants

The vaccines advocates have stable income and see their immediate financial future as 'positive'. The vaccine reluctants do not have stable income and have no job security and basically sufferers.

MFO chairman vex that the MoH didn't check the data before deciding on the walk-in process. We ent vaccinate that first 240,000 people who would be rushing for the vaccine.

The MFO say we need to have influencers who can be trusted. We can't be buffing people. It can't be a government effort, we need different people to be the voices.

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Re: COVID-19 Vaccine Tracker (News and Updates)

Postby paid_influencer » June 11th, 2021, 8:28 pm

dpd, Chile is 93% Sinovac and not Sinopharm. But again, both is same technology and one won't be a huge difference to the other.

There is an article on Mongolia (they mainly use Sinopharm) that is basically confirms the same pattern tho. Sinopharm helps with hospitalization and severe disease on an individual level, but doesn't reduce much transmission so they still have outbreaks and need other measures. Article from the NYT is below in a spoiler box.

Coronavirus cases are surging in Mongolia, where more than half the population is fully vaccinated, prompting a new focus on the effectiveness of its main vaccine, developed by China’s Sinopharm.

Mongolia reported 1,312 new cases of the coronavirus on Wednesday as the country’s total infections neared 70,000, almost all recorded since January. New daily infections have risen more than 70 percent in the past two weeks, according to a New York Times database.

The landlocked nation has emerged as an outlier in the global scramble for vaccines among developing nations, securing enough doses for its eligible population thanks to its strategic location between Russia and China — two vaccine manufacturing giants with global ambitions. Mongolia has signed deals for 4.3 million doses of the Sinopharm vaccine and one million doses of Russia’s Sputnik V vaccine, although only 60,000 Sputnik doses have arrived so far.

Chinese vaccines, such as the ones made by Sinopharm and another company, Sinovac, use inactivated coronaviruses to trigger an immune response in the body. They have been shown in studies to be less effective than the vaccines developed by the pharmaceutical companies Pfizer and Moderna, which use newer mRNA technology.

Sinopharm’s vaccine initially came under scrutiny because of a lack of transparency in its late-stage trial data. The vaccine faced more questions after the island nation of the Seychelles, which relied heavily on Sinopharm to inoculate its population, also saw a spike in cases, although most people did not become seriously ill.

“Inactivated vaccines like Sinovac and Sinopharm are not as effective against infection but very effective against severe disease,” said Ben Cowling, an epidemiologist and biostatistician at the University of Hong Kong School of Public Health.

“Although Mongolia seems to be having a spike in infections and cases, my expectation is that there won’t be large number of hospitalizations,” he added.

And some virus variants may spread fast enough to cause concern even in countries where much of the population has vaccinations effective against them: Britain is dealing with a rise in cases linked to the Delta variant, despite having more than half of its adult population fully vaccinated, largely with shots from AstraZeneca and Pfizer.

Still, the wave of infections has raised questions in Mongolia over why the government relied on the Sinopharm shots instead of a vaccine proven to be more effective. It came as Mongolians headed to the polls on Wednesday to vote for president, the first election since the constitution was amended to limit the president to one six-year term. The prime minister is the head of government and holds executive power.

A year ago, Mongolia was among the few countries in the world that boasted no local coronavirus cases, but an outbreak in November changed that. A political crisis ensued and protests over perceived mishandling of the outbreak led the prime minister to resign in January.

The new prime minister, Oyun-Erdene Luvsannamsrai, has promised to revive a flagging economy and end social distancing restrictions that have hurt businesses. A fresh wave of cases could threaten this pledge.

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Re: COVID-19 Vaccine Tracker (News and Updates)

Postby paid_influencer » June 11th, 2021, 8:30 pm

wheey, SATT head slamming the walk-in process and calling it a super-spreader event. He calling the supermarket vaccination drive a 'textbook' on how to do it.

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Re: COVID-19 Vaccine Tracker (News and Updates)

Postby sMASH » June 11th, 2021, 8:39 pm

paid_influencer wrote:wheey, SATT head slamming the walk-in process and calling it a super-spreader event. He calling the supermarket vaccination drive a 'textbook' on how to do it.

supermarkets really shouldnt be telling who is super spreader and who is not.... cause u all go groceries and u all see what goes on, lol.

if they didnt test people and quarantine them for 14 days before they got the shot, he needs to shut his mouth about 'text book'.
all he can get credit for is things being more orderly and calm wiht a fraction of the people.

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Re: COVID-19 Vaccine Tracker (News and Updates)

Postby Dohplaydat » June 11th, 2021, 8:40 pm

paid_influencer wrote:dpd, Chile is 93% Sinovac and not Sinopharm. But again, both is same technology and one won't be a huge difference to the other.

There is an article on Mongolia (they mainly use Sinopharm) that is basically confirms the same pattern tho. Sinopharm helps with hospitalization and severe disease on an individual level, but doesn't reduce much transmission so they still have outbreaks and need other measures. Article from the NYT is below in a spoiler box.

Coronavirus cases are surging in Mongolia, where more than half the population is fully vaccinated, prompting a new focus on the effectiveness of its main vaccine, developed by China’s Sinopharm.

Mongolia reported 1,312 new cases of the coronavirus on Wednesday as the country’s total infections neared 70,000, almost all recorded since January. New daily infections have risen more than 70 percent in the past two weeks, according to a New York Times database.

The landlocked nation has emerged as an outlier in the global scramble for vaccines among developing nations, securing enough doses for its eligible population thanks to its strategic location between Russia and China — two vaccine manufacturing giants with global ambitions. Mongolia has signed deals for 4.3 million doses of the Sinopharm vaccine and one million doses of Russia’s Sputnik V vaccine, although only 60,000 Sputnik doses have arrived so far.

Chinese vaccines, such as the ones made by Sinopharm and another company, Sinovac, use inactivated coronaviruses to trigger an immune response in the body. They have been shown in studies to be less effective than the vaccines developed by the pharmaceutical companies Pfizer and Moderna, which use newer mRNA technology.

Sinopharm’s vaccine initially came under scrutiny because of a lack of transparency in its late-stage trial data. The vaccine faced more questions after the island nation of the Seychelles, which relied heavily on Sinopharm to inoculate its population, also saw a spike in cases, although most people did not become seriously ill.

“Inactivated vaccines like Sinovac and Sinopharm are not as effective against infection but very effective against severe disease,” said Ben Cowling, an epidemiologist and biostatistician at the University of Hong Kong School of Public Health.

“Although Mongolia seems to be having a spike in infections and cases, my expectation is that there won’t be large number of hospitalizations,” he added.

And some virus variants may spread fast enough to cause concern even in countries where much of the population has vaccinations effective against them: Britain is dealing with a rise in cases linked to the Delta variant, despite having more than half of its adult population fully vaccinated, largely with shots from AstraZeneca and Pfizer.

Still, the wave of infections has raised questions in Mongolia over why the government relied on the Sinopharm shots instead of a vaccine proven to be more effective. It came as Mongolians headed to the polls on Wednesday to vote for president, the first election since the constitution was amended to limit the president to one six-year term. The prime minister is the head of government and holds executive power.

A year ago, Mongolia was among the few countries in the world that boasted no local coronavirus cases, but an outbreak in November changed that. A political crisis ensued and protests over perceived mishandling of the outbreak led the prime minister to resign in January.

The new prime minister, Oyun-Erdene Luvsannamsrai, has promised to revive a flagging economy and end social distancing restrictions that have hurt businesses. A fresh wave of cases could threaten this pledge.


Yea, my mistake, at this point I'm convinced that there isn't much of a difference between them though as the same pattern is being played out all over the world with both.

F"cking China again.

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Re: COVID-19 Vaccine Tracker (News and Updates)

Postby paid_influencer » June 11th, 2021, 8:46 pm

well don't say that. The alternative to Sinopharm is salt today. Some benefit better than no benefit. But all this talk about achieving herd immunity and getting back to Carnival is premature, since we can't really identify a country that got to that point using only inactivated-virus vaccines.

meanwhile, I'm watching NBA playoffs right now with huge crowds in attendance.

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Re: COVID-19 Vaccine Tracker (News and Updates)

Postby eliteauto » June 11th, 2021, 9:36 pm

Very impressed with the system in place at UTT Monroe Road today, had both first-timers for Sinopharm and second shot persons for AZ, good flow, courteous TTPS personnel, volunteers and medical staff. Turn around time for a second shot appointment was 40 mins with a heavy turnout of persons

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Re: COVID-19 Vaccine Tracker (News and Updates)

Postby Dohplaydat » June 11th, 2021, 9:38 pm

paid_influencer wrote:well don't say that. The alternative to Sinopharm is salt today. Some benefit better than no benefit. But all this talk about achieving herd immunity and getting back to Carnival is premature, since we can't really identify a country that got to that point using only inactivated-virus vaccines.

meanwhile, I'm watching NBA playoffs right now with huge crowds in attendance.


Different issue, I would still take it as it could save your life. I'm just annoyed that it's such a leaky vaccine and with all the anti-vaxxers out there, we will be stuck in a perpetual covid cycle for some time.

If so many Sinopharm dependent countries cannot reopen then we will be stuck in this situation. Not really faulting PNM here, we get what we can get, but i for one do not want to be constantly on form of restriction/lockdown for the next 6-9 months.

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Re: COVID-19 Vaccine Tracker (News and Updates)

Postby MaxPower » June 11th, 2021, 9:53 pm

eliteauto wrote:Very impressed with the system in place at UTT Monroe Road today, had both first-timers for Sinopharm and second shot persons for AZ, good flow, courteous TTPS personnel, volunteers and medical staff. Turn around time for a second shot appointment was 40 mins with a heavy turnout of persons


Nice man.

This is what i want to hear.

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Re: COVID-19 Vaccine Tracker (News and Updates)

Postby shaneelal » June 11th, 2021, 10:01 pm

Seems we're getting some more Sinopharm vaccines soon and more AstraZeneca from our neighbors.

200,000 more Sinopharm vaccines now due next week, says Browne
https://newsday.co.tt/2021/06/11/200000 ... ys-browne/



DR AMERY BROWNE, Minister of Foreign and Caricom Affairs, said TT will receive 200,000 doses of Sinopharm vaccine from China next week.

He was speaking on Friday in the Senate on the Mid Year Review.

"Two hundred thousand from Sinopharm are due very early next week."

A shipment was originally scheduled to arrive on June 10, according to a statement by the Prime minister at a media conference on June 5.

When China donated an initial 100,000 doses as a gift to TT on May 19, Health Minister Terrence Deyalsingh had vowed to buy more.

On Friday Browne also said, "By the end of today, and I say that specifically, we would have had over 250,000 doses of covid19 vaccines in our country. This is an ongoing and aggressive acquisition effort, involving many persons both in TT and outside of TT."

Browne said that of this amount, some 130,000 doses had already been injected into recipients.

"We've got 100,000 doses from China, 40,000 doses from India, 2,000 from Barbados, 16,000 from St Vincent and the Grenadines, 9,000 from Bermuda, 10,000 from Grenada."

China's Sinopharm vaccine currently being administered in Trinidad and Tobago as part of the covid19 vaccine drive. - Photo by Lincoln Holder

He said TT had so far received about 100,000 doses bought from Covax.

"The majority of doses so far have been acquired free of charge, so it's not reflected on the public purse."

While these doses were not any cost in the Mid Year Review, he said that document reflected the cost of his ministry's staff and missions plus regional health authorities and health staff to respectively acquire and administer the vaccines.

"Eight hundred thousand one-dose Johnson & Johnson (doses) are scheduled and anticipated to arrive in August, but guess what? There is work going on right now led by the Prime Minister of TT to seek to advance the arrival of those doses."

These were due from the Africa Medical Supplies Platform.

"We are working hard to set up a meeting between the President of South Africa and the Prime Minister of TT to bring that arrival date to as soon as possible."

Browne said TT was working closely with several Caricom countries which had bought AstraZeneca vaccines through Covax but which were now seeing vaccine hesitancy among their populations.

"But guess what? We have a different profile here. We have a high vaccine acceptance. The need is here. We will not waste a single dose.

"There is an Air Guard aircraft in the air right now doing some collections from our generous neighbours. We are working with our neighbours and that's what diplomacy is about, to ensure that within the region, nothing is wasted and Caricom citizens can be made as safe as possible.

"So there are more vaccines coming in than even have been listed."

Browne said vaccines would also come from sources such as the US Global Programme, after talks between Rowley and US officials.

"All that will culminate, in my humble view, in TT becoming, in this region, one of the most vaccinated populations."

He hailed Rowley's advocacy at the WHO and his meetings with Chinese President Xi Jinping, US vice president Kamala Harris, WHO head Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus, plus the efforts of TT's diplomatic staff.

"Staff at our headquarters have been involved in meetings with the US, UK, Canada, the EU, Spain, France, Mexico, Cuba, Argentina, India, China, South Korea, Chile and many others, in addition to contacts with all of our Caricom colleagues.

"There are some exciting possibilities, involving Mexico, Argentina and some Latin American vaccines, as well as the Cuban potential."

He hailed the vaccination efforts of the "excellent staff" at the Ministry of Health, plus the private sector, as "offering an injection of hope."

"We can ensure that we don't have long lines or senior citizens in the sunlight. Those are unfortunate scenes."

Saying the Ministry of Health has gone back to the drawing board, he said with the pending arrival of more Sinopharm vaccines, he expected a vaccination effort that will be "more organised, respectful to our senior citizens, and collaborative."

Earlier, Browne rejected any idea that TT had been worst hit by the pandemic, saying the global debt-to-GDP ratio after over a year of covid19 was now 355 per cent.

"The Government and the Ministry of Finance have done quite well in managing the economy so far."

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Re: COVID-19 Vaccine Tracker (News and Updates)

Postby shake d livin wake d dead » June 11th, 2021, 10:06 pm

That sinopharm looking like real failure..take a look at

Mongolia
Saudi arabia
Chile
Phillipines
Seychelles
Bahrain
List goes on

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Re: COVID-19 Vaccine Tracker (News and Updates)

Postby hover11 » June 11th, 2021, 10:18 pm

Sinopharm is not recognized for travel what happens when these people who recently became vaccinated want to travel and realize that they have to take a better recognized vaccine to enter the country of their choice, in some reports persons require a third dose of sinopharm ...what effects will this have on the body?

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Re: COVID-19 Vaccine Tracker (News and Updates)

Postby bluefete » June 11th, 2021, 10:26 pm

Shakes - Normally, you and I are on the same page but I have to disagree with you on this.

I had a very interesting talk with a doctor today who stated that even in the medical field there is wide disagreement with the various vaccines.

Remember that this is all about Economics and Politics.

The Sinopharm uses ingredients that we all are accustomed to - that is - was used in measles, mumps, rubella. So it is a vastly proven vaccine.

The others - Moderna, Pfizer and so on use MRNA which, allegedly, alters your dna to fight the virus. MRNA is relatively new and has been around for about 20 -30 years.

Bottom line though is to take any vaccine you can get.

Take a read:

https://www.statnews.com/2020/11/10/the ... cine-race/

I have a real interesting post coming up next.



shake d livin wake d dead wrote:That sinopharm looking like real failure..take a look at

Mongolia
Saudi arabia
Chile
Phillipines
Seychelles
Bahrain
List goes on

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