The Religion Discussion

[Gladiator]

About the whole Parting of the Sea thing Moses did.... I mean lets use some common sense logic here.....

I work on alot of jobs where we do seabed sampling and that kinda thing and most of the times the seabed is a mushy mess of mud... even if Moses did part the sea it would have been a hell of a task to walk through that amount of slush (for those who doubting go try to walk through some mangrove mud). I never hear a moses story where he dry up the mud too.....or is there?

After the sea parted the chariots would not have been able to reach very far......unless equipped with some 33" tall 10" wide mud terrians........ which i highly doubt the egyptians had on their rigs.

[slimshiney]

bump...

[buzz]

^^^^ damn you to hell

[buzz]

wait i don't believe in hell so

damn you to trinidad

[Kasey]

LOL@buzz,

[redmanjp]

After the sea parted the chariots would not have been able to reach very far......unless equipped with some 33" tall 10" wide mud terrians........ which i highly doubt the egyptians had on their rigs.

Moses didnt part the sea for the egyptians- he did it for the Israelites! when the Israelites crossed the Sea came back and drowned the chariots

[QG]

After the sea parted the chariots would not have been able to reach very far......unless equipped with some 33" tall 10" wide mud terrians........ which i highly doubt the egyptians had on their rigs.

Moses didnt part the sea for the egyptians- he did it for the Israelites! when the Israelites crossed the Sea came back and drowned the chariots

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

^ it may have been hard to cross on foot too with all that mud, rock and wet sand

are the Isreali people now direct descendants of the Isrealites?
They seem to be getting help even now: on the news the Isrealis have tanks and rockets while the Palestines have pebbles rocks to throw

[slimshiney]

[bluefete]

"If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land". (2 Chronicles 7:14)

Places like Amsterdam, Las Vegas and Ibiza do't have any natural disasters, flood, famine, drought, war. They are wealthy and healthy and living well for a long long time now. God doesnt seem to be smiting them too much considering all the prostitution, gambling, exotic drugs, excessive lifestyles, partying, drinking etc.

Somehow though God really took out his wrath on the simple, poor people of the south pacific, some of them living simple lives as fishermen in small villages, this week killing thousands and injuring hundreds of thousands.

Or the poor starving children in Ethiopia, Somalia and Zimbabwe living in little huts with no food, no potable water and all kinds of disease. Seems they don't pray.

But it seems the topless party goers in Ibiza who flew in on their private jet are putting in some serious prayer to God in between their orgies and marijuana. Cause their land is healed and bountiful.

We are evolving physically as well, according to the evolutionists. Duane said that we don't know what we will look like in a few million years.

Well, will the sun be around in a few million years?

"Radiometric measurements show the Sun was formed about 4.57 billion years ago. It also shows the Sun is about halfway through its main-sequence evolution. It does not have enough mass to explode as a supernova. Instead, in about 5 billion years, it will enter a red giant phase and spend a total of approximately 10 billion years as a main sequence star."

10 billion years is alot more than a few million years

Even though God came and stood upon a mountain for all to see some would not believe.

They would attribute it to a trick of nature / Machel's good friend - the illusionist what's-his-name from the USA / mass hypnotism / mirrors strategically placed etc, etc.

Your thoughts are very inconsistent.
We would have to prove through scientific methods what caused the anomaly. It would show that no mass hypnotism nor mirrors or any "magic" or deception was used. Science only looks for facts - in fact science would prove to everyone that it really is God.

Duane: I will answer your questions soon

I thought my questions are simple and should be easy to answer. I didnt think I could have asked questions off the top of my head and have someone guided by God taking so long to answer.

Take your time though, because I wouldnt want your answers to not hold water and then I'd have to ask more questions to your answers as I did here.

Okay people, I am back. Work scheduling did not allow me to really answer as I hoped.

Duane: The Torah is basically the same as the Old Testament. So I do not need to quote from that.

As for the Qu'ran:

And Allah has Created every animal from water; of them are some creeping on their bellies; some walk on two legs; and some on four. Allah Creates what He wills: for sure Allah has Power over all things.

[ Quran 24:45]

"Lo! your Lord is Allah Who created the heavens and the earth in six Days, then mounted He the Throne. He covereth the night with the day, which is in haste to follow it, and hath made the sun and the moon and the stars subservient by His command. His verily is all creation and commandment. Blessed be Allah, the Lord of the Worlds! " Quran 7: 54.

God cannot create himself if he always is.

Do not be fooled by what you do not see happening in some parts of the world. God is merciful and gives people time to turn from their wicked ways.

Suspected ETA attack causes chaos in Ibiza
Published Date: 01 July 2007
http://news.scotsman.com/internationalt ... 3300414.jp

With Respect to Evolution:

Isn't evolution "speculation" about the unobservable and unrepeatable past?

Has anyone ever OBSERVED an information increasing change from one type of organism to another?

Why does evolution stay away from the "origin of life" (according to you)?

Are evolutionists afraid of God?

You also mentioned my 'circular thinking" but isn't natural selection based on circular reasoning- The fittest are those who survive, and those who survive are deemed the fittest?

[QG]

Well done bluefete,
"If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land". (2 Chronicles 7:14)

That will answer Duane's question

[tekno1]

The greatest fallacy of christians and religious people these days is the belief that god doesn't want us to BE gods ourselves. We have been given the greatest gift of all. Free will. Can you understand this concept? Try and imagine you have a child and you tell the child he, or she, can do WHATEVER they want and you will NEVER interfere in any way. Can you begin to imagine the kind of power this puts into the hand of the individual?

If you're created in the image of something they you're a duplicate of that thing. This means we have the potential to be gods ourselves. The problem here is the concept of what being godlike means.

The three basic tenets of god are all loving, all knowing and all forgiving.

All forgiving means the ability to love regardless of what someone does to you. This is turn the other cheek to the extreme. This means taking someone back into your heart once they TRULY are sorry for what they did. Going to church and saying you're sorry on a sunday does not mean you are. It just means you're good at mouthing the words. How many people do we know leave this arena of forgiveness only to have to come back next week and say sorry again? I always say "Once is a mistake.. twice is a habit, three times is a way of life.."

All loving means you love someone regardless of who and how they are. Black. White. Man. Woman. Handicapped. Ignorant. Stubborn. Stupid. Whatever. It doesn't matter. How many times have you seen someone with a partner and you cant understand why they're still with the person when that person seems like a total jerk-off to you? Why cant the other person see it? Have you ever thought that they DO see it and don't care? Total love doesn't have degrees and conditions. It just is. You accept that person as they are. Faults and all.

All knowing is the most complex and leads to the most confusing. I once asked a christian friend of mine "..if God knows exactly what will happen to me then how the hell do i have free will since he, or she, already knows what i'll do and where i'll end up?" and he couldn't answer me. Because he's never been taught to question. We're taught that we mustn't question. That faith means not asking questions.

No.

Not questioning isn't faith. Its slavery. You weren't given a brain and individuality to blindly follow like sheep. You were given it to be able to question and say "Waitaminute.. this doesn't make any sense..." I finally had to tell him his life is like a road. Every second has branches. He can go left or right at each fork in his life. Whether he takes a good road or a bad road is entirely up to him. The difference is that god knows where each road leads. The difference is he wont force you to take it. You have to decide. His knowing where you'll end up if you go left instead of right doesn't invalidate your free will. It re-enforces it. Imagine watching someone make mistakes right in front of you and never saying a word to stop them because they have to make the decision on their own. THAT's power.

Religion is personal. I love god and i hate the catholic church. I believe the church lost its way when the people IN the church became more important than the people they were supposed to minister. The pope isn't more important than some child in a slum trying to find god in his, or her, own way. The pope should get down on HIS knees and kiss THEIR fingers. Because their daily struggle puts them closer to god that he will ever get in his gilded towers in rome. Nothing brings you closer to belief than having nothing in life. That's why poor people are the most devout of ALL people. Nobody loves god more than someone who has less reason to because they have so much less than anybody else who's comfortable. Yet, they love, prostrate, flay their skins; crucify themselves all the time.

Does this mean that someone else should hate the church because i said this? No. Argue with me. Prove your point. Their life may have been blessed through their interaction with their church. To them the church is something they will never look down on. And thats cool. Because again, its personal. And that's free will.

I love the concept in the hindu religion of no devil. You and YOU ALONE are responsible for what you do. Don't blame some sunburned dude with a pitchfork because you did evil. You did it on your OWN! The devil is just another excuse to get away with things. And don't get me started on original sin. How can someone who loves me unconditionally have me born with sin on my soul. Again, this is a concept created to catch people from an early age.

Remember, to a child, everything is REAL! Fairies. Dwarfs. Jonah. Every story is real. And children are formed by the stories they learn early on. If I can guide your mind from childhood there's a very good chance i'll able to guide it when its pathways are laid down later and your way of life is set.

People seem to forget that the ability to read is a novel concept to most people only in the last few hundred years. The best way to get information and messages around in the past was to tell a story. If i tell you a man get shot last week, by the end of the week you've already forgotten. If, however, i tell you "you remember Harry? The man with the Green lancer who was at Solodex in January when the black escort blow up? Yeah. The fella who blow out the green sentra when he had on the radio and the A/C? well guess what happen to him?" By the time i've finished telling you this story you'll remember it for a looooong time and be able to pass it on.

I totally believe in god. I also believe in science. I have faith in both. Many people of science have faith in both concepts. One doesn't cancel out the other. I dont bellieve science will disprove god. I really think it'll bring us closer to him, or her. Its only those who have been taught fear that fear science and people around them.

Before i go, here's something to think about. I have three friends who are atheists. And i can tell you with absoloute certainty that they know more about religion than almost everyone i know. Because they came to that belief through knowledge. They didn't just blindly decide to be atheist because someone told them to have faith in nothing.

I know god exists because too many things in my life happen in ways to deny it. Once, i was so broken it was scary. I had a light bill to pay for my business and i was short by $200.00 and honestly had no idea how i'd pay it. I knew that unless i paid it by the next day they would cut my lights. I was so depressed at the thought of having to close down that i walked outside to stand by the wall. Just then, a friend whom i hadn't seen in months happened to be walking by. He was all "Ay breds.. man.. is long time i eh see you.." I was happy to see him and talking to him when he suddenly says "you know.. is a good thing i see you here. Is long time i looking for you to give you back that money you had lent me."

I had totally forgotten about that loan. He then tells me he JUST came back from the bank where he cashed his paycheck and ".. is a good thing i see you because i eh know when i go be passing down on this side again. I just come down here today to check out a pardner who going away to live.." the amount of money he had for me? Yes.. $200.00. I was able to pay my light bill and stay open till next month when i could start worrying all over again.

And thats not the only such incident. Things like that happen to me all the time. I just look up, laugh and say "yuh good yes." and smile and say thanks. God never gives you what you want, but he just might give you what you NEED! I may want to win the lotto, but at that moment, all i needed was $200.00

[nismotrinidappa]

last night i had a dream...........................





















i was cooking food.. and i woke up hungry

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

Well done bluefete,
That will answer Duane's question

how did that answer my question?

A random bomb attack cannot equate to the scourge and suffering that is taking place in countries with decades of famine, war, disease and natural disasters.

I'll take it that there is no answer and move on.

I have another question:

The evolutionists have empirical evidence from fossils to DNA to current evolutionary medicine that YOU make use of. What empirical evidence do creationists have, besides faith and a religious text?

Well done bluefete,
"If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land". (2 Chronicles 7:14)

is las vegas healed and indonesia wicked?

[slimshiney]

bump

[QG]

I want to respond to teckno1 post, I saw it a few days ago but haven't got time to prepare my speech
Teckno, I agree fully with your last 3 paragraphs..."GOD GIVES US WHAT WE NEED AND NOT WHAT WE WANT"...that's very true indeed!
You made some very important points that interested me, but some threw me off a bit, no scene!

Duane 3NE 2NR, ...i will reply to your other question soon.

[nismotrinidappa]

nice...we waiting to hear what you coming with...

[Right_and_Wrong]

To: Duane
Empirical Evidence means evidence obtained from OBSERVATION, EXPERIENCE and EXPERIMENTATION, what empirical evidence do fossils (bones) give?...other than proving an animal lived and its remains have been found? DNA gives Empirical Evidence of ADAPTATION and NOT Evolution.

[MG Man]

can someone convince me that God exists WITHOUT stupid religious references?

[Right_and_Wrong]

To: pioneer
???..........any relevance in that reply?

[illumin@ti]

To: pioneer
???..........any relevance in that reply?

did u read this thread from page 1 ???? or did u just say i'll take a stab at it ?

[Right_and_Wrong]

To: MG Man
Someone can but only if you have Faith and you are a LOGICAL person who uses common sense.

[Right_and_Wrong]

To: illumin@ti
Page 1

[illumin@ti]

so..... ill start here ... what's YOUR opinion on all this? what do you subscribe to?

[MG Man]

To: MG Man
Someone can but only if you have Faith and you are a LOGICAL person who uses common sense.

wtf dude

[illumin@ti]

To: MG Man
Someone can but only if you have Faith and you are a LOGICAL person who uses common sense.

wtf dude

and explain to me, in your words what the word FAITH means to u

[MG Man]

u talkin to rite and rong, rite?

[illumin@ti]

right or left?

yeah ,, i am ,,

[Right_and_Wrong]

To: illumin@ti
Evolution is impossible, it's not logical and defies common sense and reasoned thought.
I believe that Creation is the answer to how life began.
Faith (in general) to me is to confidently believe in something or someone that has no immediate evidence to support that belief.

[illumin@ti]

To: illumin@ti
Evolution is impossible, it's not logical and defies common sense and reasoned thought.
I believe that Creation is the answer to how life began.
Faith (in general) to me is to confidently believe in something or someone that has no immediate evidence to support that belief.

ok ok. no need to continue
have a good night eh sir